# High cholesterol question



## vraiblonde

Damn it!!!    I had a complete blood work thing done for my health insurance company and the lab called - my cholesterol is high (in the low 300s) and she has called in a prescription for some medication that I am to start taking right away.

I don't want to take this medication.  Or any medication.

There are a number of things I could be doing to lower my cholesterol naturally.  I could lose weight, I could give up eating animal things, I could get more exercise, I could eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast.  And yes, I would rather do those things than take a pill every day.  Plus I've been wanting to do those things anyway (except the eating animals part) but haven't really been that motivated.  But I am motivated now.

So what I'm going to do is blow off getting the prescription filled.  I see the doc again on Thursday anyway and will just explain to her that I'm not going to die in the next month, so I'm going to try to get rid of the bad stuff without pharmaceuticals.  If I can't get my numbers lowered within a month, then I'll consider the med option.

Is this too reckless and I should do what they say and not what I think is best?  I admit to being an insufferable know-it-all, but I think doctors rely too much on pills.  Plus I'm not interested in the crazy side-effects that go along with statin drugs.

Any advice?


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## Misfit

They get kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies to convince you that you have to take a pill. You can control your cholesterol all on your own (I did) although doctors will tell you different.


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## Larry Gude

Statin's?? Yuck. Ask about Tricor. Non statin. No side effects.


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## Chasey_Lane

vraiblonde said:


> Any advice?


I think it is good that you are trying on your own, in a healthy way.  Just be sure you monitor your progress.  If changing your diet fails, try the medication.


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## vraiblonde

Misfit said:


> They get kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies to convince you that you have to take a pill. You can control your cholesterol all on your own (I did) although doctors will tell you different.



Okay, so I'm not being a paranoid big pharma hating nutter?

Good.


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## Vince

vraiblonde said:


> Damn it!!!    I had a complete blood work thing done for my health insurance company and the lab called - my cholesterol is high (in the low 300s) and she has called in a prescription for some medication that I am to start taking right away.
> 
> I don't want to take this medication.  Or any medication.
> 
> There are a number of things I could be doing to lower my cholesterol naturally.  I could lose weight, I could give up eating animal things, I could get more exercise, I could eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast.  And yes, I would rather do those things than take a pill every day.  Plus I've been wanting to do those things anyway (except the eating animals part) but haven't really been that motivated.  But I am motivated now.
> 
> So what I'm going to do is blow off getting the prescription filled.  I see the doc again on Thursday anyway and will just explain to her that I'm not going to die in the next month, so I'm going to try to get rid of the bad stuff without pharmaceuticals.  If I can't get my numbers lowered within a month, then I'll consider the med option.
> 
> Is this too reckless and I should do what they say and not what I think is best?  I admit to being an insufferable know-it-all, but I think doctors rely too much on pills.  Plus I'm not interested in the crazy side-effects that go along with statin drugs.
> 
> Any advice?


Get the prescription filled.  My mother was a little bitty thing, 130 lbs soaking wet and had high cholesterol.  It wasn't her diet.  It was just hereditary and happened when she got older.


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## Bobwhite

I'm not sure what side effects you speak of.  I've been taking statins for years and I'm not aware of any side effects.  I agree with you on taking the more natural approach before going to pharmaceuticals.  When I was first diagnosed, I tried fish oil and niacin.  Unfortunately, they did not work for me.  I wish you the best of luck with your endeavor.


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## Misfit

Vince said:


> and happened when she got older.



Are you calling vrai old?


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## Vince

Misfit said:


> Are you calling vrai old?


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## migtig

The night before a blood test I had deep fried food night at the house.  Blood tests came back and they said I had "elevated" cholesterol and it was concerning.  Went back for a blood test a couple of weeks later and everything was perfectly fine.  I wouldn't take a pill either without trying other things first.


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## Misfit

Vince said:


>


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## Roman

Give it a go on your own, but if you find yourself cheating here & there consider the Statin. I can't take Statins because I get the muscle cramps from hell.


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## BadGirl

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...9d3add6c-8a79-11e2-98d9-3012c1cd8d1e&hpid=z12

"Almost one person in three would rather live a slightly shorter life than take a daily pill to prevent cardiovascular disease, a new study suggests.

A thousand people whose average age was 50 were asked how much time they would be willing to subtract from their lives to avoid taking daily medication for cardiovascular disease. More than 8 percent said they would be willing to forfeit two years of their life, while about 21 percent said they would sacrifice between a week and a year to avoid taking that daily pill.

The study “reinforces the idea that many people do not like taking pills, for whatever reason,” said study author Robert Hutchins, a physician at the University of California at San Francisco Department of Medicine.

The researchers also asked the study participants how much they would be willing to pay to not have to take the medication but still enjoy its benefits. About 43 percent said they were unwilling to pay any amount of money, whereas about 21 percent said they would pay $1,000 or more.

Hutchins said he was surprised that so many people reported that taking daily medication would have “a very large effect on their quality of life.”


Among the people in the study, 79 percent were taking at least one pill daily.

They were asked to assume that the pills they would hypothetically be taking were free and that they had no side effects.

It is not clear why some people were willing to pay money or sacrifice time from their lives to avoid taking daily medication, the researchers said in their study, which was funded by the National Cancer Institute.

“I would have really liked to have gotten to talk to those people . . . and find out what it was that they thought was so bad about taking a pill daily,” Hutchins said."


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## itsbob

Misfit said:


> They get kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies to convince you that you have to take a pill. You can control your cholesterol all on your own (I did) although doctors will tell you different.



She's a LOT older than you are, and it's really hard for an old lady to get their cholesterol down.  

However I would do research into which drugs actually work..


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## vraiblonde

BadGirl said:


> “I would have really liked to have gotten to talk to those people . . . and find out what it was that they thought was so bad about taking a pill daily,” Hutchins said."



The car salesmen do that - reduce everything down to it's LCD to manipulate you.  "Don't think of it as $50,000 - think of it as $14 a day (for 10 years).  Is the safety of your children not worth $14?"

Taking a pill every day isn't terrible at all.  But spending $50 per month for something that I can perhaps do for free is dumb.  And then you have to wonder if the pills are even necessary, or if it's the doctor in cahoots with the drug companies to make mo' money.  Then there are the possible side-effects...

Living to be only 80 instead of 82 isn't that frightening to me.


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## desertrat

Mine only a bit high, but I still take a pill one of many. That no carb diet has actually lowered it for some.


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## desertrat

Made me sick of bacon after a while though. When the keytosis kicked in I felt too weird so quit.


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## GURPS

vraiblonde said:


> Any advice?





https://www.google.com/#q=control+cholesterol+naturally


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## PeoplesElbow

There are actually quite a few paths you can go,  I would suggest reading this book 

http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Atkins-Age...qid=1423627356&sr=1-34&keywords=dr+atkins+new

And then make up your own mind.


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## tommyjo

vraiblonde said:


> The car salesmen do that - reduce everything down to it's LCD to manipulate you.  "Don't think of it as $50,000 - think of it as $14 a day (for 10 years).  Is the safety of your children not worth $14?"
> 
> Taking a pill every day isn't terrible at all.  But spending $50 per month for something that I can perhaps do for free is dumb.  And then you have to wonder if the pills are even necessary, or if it's the doctor in cahoots with the drug companies to make mo' money.  Then there are the possible side-effects...
> 
> Living to be only 80 instead of 82 isn't that frightening to me.



Yes of course, the ONLY reason a doctor prescribes medication is because s/he gets a kick back from the drug company. There is no other possible rationale is there?

No doctor in the history of time has ever provided any necessary service that helped anyone and no drug every in the history of time has done anything to make anyone's life any better. Every decision every doctor has ever made was based solely on an analysis of the profit potential, right?

Take the pill or don't take the pill. Its your damn choice to make...but don't blame anyone but yourself if you choose not to follow the doctor's advice. 

Of course, if you don't follow the advice, why do you even have a doctor?


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## Pushrod

I just read an article yesterday where the FDA is reversing its stance on high cholesterol foods. The report cites studies that reducing these foods (egg yokes, red meat, etc...) does not significantly reduce blood cholesterol levels as the main driving force is genetics, not the food you eat. Something to take into consideration if you like eating what you presently consume.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/10/feds-poised-to-withdraw-longstanding-warnings-about-dietary-cholesterol/


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## PeoplesElbow

tommyjo said:


> Yes of course, the ONLY reason a doctor prescribes medication is because s/he gets a kick back from the drug company. There is no other possible rationale is there?
> 
> No doctor in the history of time has ever provided any necessary service that helped anyone and no drug every in the history of time has done anything to make anyone's life any better. Every decision every doctor has ever made was based solely on an analysis of the profit potential, right?
> 
> Take the pill or don't take the pill. Its your damn choice to make...but don't blame anyone but yourself if you choose not to follow the doctor's advice.
> 
> Of course, if you don't follow the advice, why do you even have a doctor?



Do you know Doctors only have a single class oh pharmaceducals?  The same one that nurses also take.  They rely on what drug salesmen tell them. A lot of what they do is simply trial an error,  here take this medicine to see if it does anything,  oh it makes you feel like crap and gives you chronic diarrhea well take this one instead.  You are chemically altering your body so you should question  any medicines that you will be taking daily for the rest of your life.


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## vraiblonde

tommyjo said:


> Yes of course, the ONLY reason a doctor prescribes medication is because s/he gets a kick back from the drug company. There is no other possible rationale is there?
> 
> No doctor in the history of time has ever provided any necessary service that helped anyone and no drug every in the history of time has done anything to make anyone's life any better. Every decision every doctor has ever made was based solely on an analysis of the profit potential, right?
> 
> Take the pill or don't take the pill. Its your damn choice to make...but don't blame anyone but yourself if you choose not to follow the doctor's advice.
> 
> Of course, if you don't follow the advice, why do you even have a doctor?



You are so angry.  Have you had your blood pressure checked lately?


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## somdfunguy

vraiblonde said:


> The car salesmen do that - reduce everything down to it's LCD to manipulate you.  "Don't think of it as $50,000 - think of it as $14 a day (for 10 years).  Is the safety of your children not worth $14?"
> 
> Taking a pill every day isn't terrible at all.  But spending $50 per month for something that I can perhaps do for free is dumb.  And then you have to wonder if the pills are even necessary, or if it's the doctor in cahoots with the drug companies to make mo' money.  Then there are the possible side-effects...
> 
> Living to be only 80 instead of 82 isn't that frightening to me.



$50 a month is great, a friends pill (Crestor) is $120 a month and that's with insurance and a coupon from the maker of the drug.  He was also over 300 and it brought him to the 170s in 6 months.


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## Misfit

Monellos cooking is slowly killing vrai.


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## itsbob

I will say over 300 seems VERY high, I don't think any ONE thing is not going to fix it..  

In the end you'll end up (if you want to fix it) taking the pills, dieting AND exercising.. and this would have to be forever, not just until your numbers are better.


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## frequentflier

Misfit said:


> Monellos cooking is slowly killing vrai.



Vrai is also an excellent cook. 

They are both killing Vrai 



Seriously, a family history of heart disease and high cholesterol would worry me. Since I have already had issues with my heart, I take a tiny pill every day; though my cholesterol wasn't off the charts. Sad to say, it is easier than changing my entire diet!


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## vraiblonde

frequentflier said:


> Seriously, a family history of heart disease and high cholesterol would worry me. Since I have already had issues with my heart, I take a tiny pill every day; though my cholesterol wasn't off the charts. Sad to say, it is easier than changing my entire diet!



And what's ignorant is that, for me, it's easier to overhaul my diet than take one little teeny tiny pill every day.  I swear I am mental.  It's one of those weird aversion things that I can't explain.

My big deal is eggs - I love them and eat them daily.  But I also love steel cut oatmeal with apples and nuts, so there's no reason why I can't make that transition.  I rarely eat fish, even though I like it, so there's a swap.    There are a lot of things I could be doing different that I'll actually enjoy.  Rather than taking one little pill a day.  How messed up is that?


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## SG_Player1974

itsbob said:


> In the end you'll end up (if you want to fix it) *taking the pills*, dieting AND exercising.. and this would have to be forever, not just until your numbers are better.



Well... we know that the "taking the pills" part will happen. I doubt the rest.


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## lucky_bee

vraiblonde said:


> And what's ignorant is that, for me, it's easier to overhaul my diet than take one little teeny tiny pill every day.  I swear I am mental.  It's one of those weird aversion things that I can't explain.
> 
> My big deal is eggs - I love them and eat them daily.  But I also love steel cut oatmeal with apples and nuts, so there's no reason why I can't make that transition.  I rarely eat fish, even though I like it, so there's a swap.    There are a lot of things I could be doing different that I'll actually enjoy.  Rather than taking one little pill a day.  How messed up is that?



No, I'd feel the same way. I also have an aversion to all medication. If there's a natural remedy, I'd rather try that first. I'd rather not take it unless I absolutely have to. Even cold meds...I avoid them unless I'm desperate. Birth Control pills freaked me out, as soon as I found an alternative, I did. I'd much rather see if altering a few things naturally would work first before picking up a prescription. My mother feels the same way and she's a nurse. In fact she too has high cholesterol even though she's a fit and healthy woman of 56. She switched her diet up some and exercised more...made a big difference. It's still a little high, but she's not interested in getting pills for that just yet. 


Also...I'm just terrible at remembering to take pills. I'd be better off switching around my diet bc the chances of me remembering to take a pill or two every day? slim. Unfortunately this includes multi-vitamins. My NYE resolution every year, never lasts longer than a day or two :shrug:


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## MMDad

I've had great success with my cholesterol by limiting carbs. You don't have to be drastic about it, but skipping the bread, potatoes, pasta, and sweets can be enough.

Remember, your body makes cholesterol itself. If a totally cholesterol free diet was effective then beef would have no cholesterol since they eat grass. But the cow makes cholesterol just like we do.


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## Lilypad

vraiblonde said:


> Damn it!!!    I had a complete blood work thing done for my health insurance company and the lab called - my cholesterol is high (in the low 300s) and she has called in a prescription for some medication that I am to start taking right away.
> 
> I don't want to take this medication.  Or any medication.
> 
> There are a number of things I could be doing to lower my cholesterol naturally.  I could lose weight, I could give up eating animal things, I could get more exercise, I could eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast.  And yes, I would rather do those things than take a pill every day.  Plus I've been wanting to do those things anyway (except the eating animals part) but haven't really been that motivated.  But I am motivated now.
> 
> So what I'm going to do is blow off getting the prescription filled.  I see the doc again on Thursday anyway and will just explain to her that I'm not going to die in the next month, so I'm going to try to get rid of the bad stuff without pharmaceuticals.  If I can't get my numbers lowered within a month, then I'll consider the med option.
> 
> Is this too reckless and I should do what they say and not what I think is best?  I admit to being an insufferable know-it-all, but I think doctors rely too much on pills.  Plus I'm not interested in the crazy side-effects that go along with statin drugs.
> 
> Any advice?



Did your Doc break down the levels in the test-HDL, LDL and Triglycerides?  The "total numbers" are what you really need to know.  The National Heart Lung and Blood Institute notes that less than 100 mg of cholesterol per 1 dL of blood is optimal; 160 to 189 mg is high, *and 190 mg and above is very high*.  Girlfriend you can fix this!


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## Monello

Misfit said:


> Monello's cooking is slowly killing vrai.


:fixeded:

Actually I need to cook more for her.  Make her all the yummy, good things she craves.  Probably just need to cut back on the cheese, meat & eggs.  I know she likes steel cut oats, so make a bunch of different fruit infused oatmeals for breakfast.


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## MADPEBS1

I take Pravastatin and no side effects for me... Was 260+ down to 160.... Like $8 for a fill.


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## Dakota

I haven't read all the responses but take the fricken pill... do all those other things and eventually wing yourself off the drug with the doctor.  That pill will actually help you meet your goals sooner, like it or not.


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## libertytyranny

Interestingly, statins haven't been shown to reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke in healthy patients without a history of heart disease, and there have been some links with new onset diabetes. So it is very prudent if you are healthy and have no history of heart disease to use lifestyle factors to lower your cholesterol rather than unproven medications.


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## frequentflier

vraiblonde said:


> And what's ignorant is that, for me, it's easier to overhaul my diet than take one little teeny tiny pill every day.  I swear I am mental.  It's one of those weird aversion things that I can't explain.
> 
> My big deal is eggs - I love them and eat them daily.  But I also love steel cut oatmeal with apples and nuts, so there's no reason why I can't make that transition.  I rarely eat fish, even though I like it, so there's a swap.    There are a lot of things I could be doing different that I'll actually enjoy.  Rather than taking one little pill a day.  How messed up is that?



You are a lot more health conscience than I am and I think it is great! It is not ignorant at all! Back in the day, I used to take much better care of myself...I used to take a lot more time prepping fresh foods and eating well. 
I, too, like eggs and cheese and do not eat fish, other than tuna out of a can. Many years ago, I ate grouper in FL and I guess I liked the way it was prepared.


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## Vince

I have to eat more fish.  My cholesterol is around 180, but the bad stuff is high.  Doc said eat more fish....and I love fish.  Don't know why I don't eat more of it. :shrug:


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## migtig

We average fish, or seafood, twice a week, and I'll tell you why you all don't cook it more - because it stinks up your kitchen and your trash.  I try and make it close to trash day so any food waste, plastic wrap, etc. isn't sitting in my house for days.


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## Vince

migtig said:


> We average fish, or seafood, twice a week, and I'll tell you* why you all don't cook it more - because it stinks up your kitchen and your trash*.  I try and make it close to trash day so any food waste, plastic wrap, etc. isn't sitting in my house for days.


Yeah, there's that.


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## FED_UP

Bobwhite said:


> I'm not sure what side effects you speak of.  I've been taking statins for years and I'm not aware of any side effects.  I agree with you on taking the more natural approach before going to pharmaceuticals.  When I was first diagnosed, I tried fish oil and niacin.  Unfortunately, they did not work for me.  I wish you the best of luck with your endeavor.



http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/side-effects-of-statin-drugs?page=2

Most people who take statin drugs tolerate them very well. But some people experience side effects.

The most common statin side effects include:

•Headache•Difficulty sleeping•Flushing of the skin•Muscle aches, tenderness, or weakness (myalgia)•Drowsiness•Dizziness•Nausea or vomiting•Abdominal cramping or pain•Bloating or gas•Diarrhea•Constipation•Rash
Statins also carry warnings that memory loss, mental confusion, high blood sugar, and type 2 diabetes are possible side effects. It's important to remember that statins may also interact with other medications you take.


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## ArkRescue

vraiblonde said:


> Damn it!!!    I had a complete blood work thing done for my health insurance company and the lab called - my cholesterol is high (in the low 300s) and she has called in a prescription for some medication that I am to start taking right away.
> 
> I don't want to take this medication.  Or any medication.
> 
> There are a number of things I could be doing to lower my cholesterol naturally.  I could lose weight, I could give up eating animal things, I could get more exercise, I could eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast.  And yes, I would rather do those things than take a pill every day.  Plus I've been wanting to do those things anyway (except the eating animals part) but haven't really been that motivated.  But I am motivated now.
> 
> So what I'm going to do is blow off getting the prescription filled.  I see the doc again on Thursday anyway and will just explain to her that I'm not going to die in the next month, so I'm going to try to get rid of the bad stuff without pharmaceuticals.  If I can't get my numbers lowered within a month, then I'll consider the med option.
> 
> Is this too reckless and I should do what they say and not what I think is best?  I admit to being an insufferable know-it-all, but I think doctors rely too much on pills.  Plus I'm not interested in the crazy side-effects that go along with statin drugs.
> 
> Any advice?



I'm not huge and I have it too.  I have been taking 40mg of Pravastatin for several years now and my level is coming down albeit slowly.  If you can drop your cholesterol numbers some in one month to show the Dr you can continue and do it on your own, more power to ya.  I was in the 300's also and I forgot to ask what it was the last time.  I really want to know so I will call them.

One way to drop it is to take Niacin right before you go to sleep.  Unfortunately when they told me to do this, they forgot to tell me there may be a side effect.  I woke up a couple hours later hot and itchy all over and I looked in the mirror and my whole body looked flushed.  I almost went to the ER then checked the internet and realized it was a reaction to the Niacin.  I tried it over and over and I kept having that bad reaction so I stopped taking it.

Red Yeast Rice extract has been used with success by many people.  Be cautious that the product you buy actually has the ingredient in it as some are sold now minus the key ingredient that lowers cholesterol.  More on the Red Yeast Rice: and also this:  http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/red-yeast-rice/safety/HRB-20059910.


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## twinoaks207

vraiblonde said:


> And what's ignorant is that, for me, it's easier to overhaul my diet than take one little teeny tiny pill every day.  I swear I am mental.  It's one of those weird aversion things that I can't explain.
> 
> My big deal is eggs - I love them and eat them daily.  But I also love steel cut oatmeal with apples and nuts, so there's no reason why I can't make that transition.  I rarely eat fish, even though I like it, so there's a swap.    There are a lot of things I could be doing different that I'll actually enjoy.  Rather than taking one little pill a day.  How messed up is that?



You are not mental! I totally understand. I think your idea of discussing a month trial run of diet changes is a good one. You might very well be able to reduce that number with diet and exercise changes so why NOT try that first?  I think a lot of doctors go for the "pill" first because most folks ask for a "pill" to fix things. Not everyone has the self-discipline to do a diet overhaul.  Do some research and see what you can find. There are lots of suggestions out there and your doctor may be able to provide a list of foods for you to start with as that's what they did with someone I know before the medication was a choice.  Very much depends on your doctor.

I sat in the Doctor's waiting room one day with a Pharmaceutical rep and his trainee right across from me.  I couldn't help but overhear their conversation. It was very, very illuminating and I haven't had the same view on medication since that day.

Go for it! Do that trial & see if it helps!


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## ArkRescue

somdfunguy said:


> $50 a month is great, a friends pill (Crestor) is $120 a month and that's with insurance and a coupon from the maker of the drug.  He was also over 300 and it brought him to the 170s in 6 months.



Crestor was the 1st med they gave me and it gave me headaches.  I do get muscle cramps (mostly my calves) with the Pravastatin, but if I take potassium and magnesium supplements, the cramps are not bothersome usually.


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## ArkRescue

FED_UP said:


> http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/side-effects-of-statin-drugs?page=2
> 
> Most people who take statin drugs tolerate them very well. But some people experience side effects.
> 
> The most common statin side effects include:
> 
> •Headache•Difficulty sleeping•Flushing of the skin•Muscle aches, tenderness, or weakness (myalgia)•Drowsiness•Dizziness•Nausea or vomiting•Abdominal cramping or pain•Bloating or gas•Diarrhea•Constipation•Rash
> Statins also carry warnings that *memory loss*, mental confusion, high blood sugar, and type 2 diabetes are possible side effects. It's important to remember that statins may also interact with other medications you take.



I should stop taking my med to see if my memory gets better.  I probably need a break from it anyway - I can switch to taking the Red Yeast Rice unless it too has the same side affects?


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## somdfunguy

ArkRescue said:


> I should stop taking my med to see if my memory gets better.  I probably need a break from it anyway - I can switch to taking the Red Yeast Rice unless it too has the same side affects?



what red yeast rice is still available that works?  all the ones that did the FDA outlawed.


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## DallasRed

Try taking RX fish oil instead.


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## DallasRed

I had side effects from them (Statins). It gave me horrible back pain. Diet doesn't work for me. I weigh 130 and exercise. I switched to Fenofibrate and no issues with it.


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## PsyOps

I encourage you all to read the book 'Grain Brain' by Dr. David Perlmutter.  The down and dirty of what he is promoting is the problem is NOT cholesterol or fat; the problem is gluten and sugar.  Aside from the allergy/intolerance to gluten, Perlmutter claims gluten is just plain destructive to the brain.  It's all about inflammation.

Carbohydrates (which converts to sugar) are the runaway enemy.  Your cells (particularly your brain) are predominately made up of fat and cholesterol.  You need this stuff in large amounts.  It’s when you introduce carbohydrates to your body (especially if it’s in large amounts) is when things like cholesterol become bad.  Even LDL in its pure form is good for the body, and your body is starved for it; particularly the brain.  When sugar bonds with it, the shape of the LDL cholesterol changes and becomes ‘abrasive’ to the cells of your body; particularly the arteries of your heart.  The result is free radicals, thus causing inflammation.  

Perlmutter recommends a high fat, high cholesterol, low carb diet.  His claim is this kind of diet will answer to a plethora of diseases we suffer: Alzheimer’s, ALS, Parkinson’s, heart disease, diabetes...


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## itsbob

vraiblonde said:


> And what's ignorant is that, for me, it's easier to overhaul my diet than take one little teeny tiny pill every day.  I swear I am mental.  It's one of those weird aversion things that I can't explain.
> 
> My big deal is eggs - I love them and eat them daily.  But I also love steel cut oatmeal with apples and nuts, so there's no reason why I can't make that transition.  I rarely eat fish, even though I like it, so there's a swap.    There are a lot of things I could be doing different that I'll actually enjoy.  Rather than taking one little pill a day.  How messed up is that?



If you like eggs eat free range eggs (lucky for you we have a supplier)  they are ten times healthier, with less  than a 1/3d of the Cholesterol


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## ArkRescue

PsyOps said:


> I encourage you all to read the book 'Grain Brain' by Dr. David Perlmutter.  The down and dirty of what he is promoting is the problem is NOT cholesterol or fat; the problem is gluten and sugar.  Aside from the allergy/intolerance to gluten, Perlmutter claims gluten is just plain destructive to the brain.  *It's all about inflammation.*
> 
> Carbohydrates (which converts to sugar) are the runaway enemy.  Your cells (particularly your brain) are predominately made up of fat and cholesterol.  You need this stuff in large amounts.  It’s when you introduce carbohydrates to your body (especially if it’s in large amounts) is when things like cholesterol become bad.  Even LDL in its pure form is good for the body, and your body is starved for it; particularly the brain.  When sugar bonds with it, the shape of the LDL cholesterol changes and becomes ‘abrasive’ to the cells of your body; particularly the arteries of your heart.  The result is free radicals, thus causing inflammation.
> 
> Perlmutter recommends a high fat, high cholesterol, low carb diet.  His claim is this kind of diet will answer to a plethora of diseases we suffer: Alzheimer’s, ALS, Parkinson’s, heart disease, diabetes...



 - I have a book about inflammation at home I need to get more serious about reading.  There are ways to reduce inflammation via food choices.  I suffer from several inflammatory issues, so I would feel much better if I got serious and used the information in that book to change what I eat.


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## ArkRescue

somdfunguy said:


> what red yeast rice is still available that works?  all the ones that did the FDA outlawed.



Exactly - I do recall the pharmaceutical companies confiscated the special ingredient that WAS available to use low cost and they turned it into a product they make mega bucks on if I am recalling correctly?  However, I thought someone told me that some forms were still available intact.  That is why I made the prior comment about checking to be sure the special ingredient is present.


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## PsyOps

ArkRescue said:


> - I have a book about inflammation at home I need to get more serious about reading.  There are ways to reduce inflammation via food choices.  I suffer from several inflammatory issues, so I would feel much better if I got serious and used the information in that book to change what I eat.



I am about half way through ‘Grain Brain’ and Perlmutter goes into detail about what happens to cholesterol and fat proteins when sugar is introduced to them.  I like to think about cholesterol and fat as lubricators and when sugar bonds with them, the ‘texture’ (my word) changes and it becomes rough against the cells of your body causing inflammation.  His big focus is on the brain.  Even though our brain has no nerve ending to feel pain, it still suffers from inflammation; and the result is the destruction of brain cells and thus things like Alzheimer’s, and Parkinson’s.  But he also goes into detail how all of this is the catalyst for diabetes and heart disease.

Basic premise: Lots of fat (good fat like eggs, avocados, fish, etc…), lots of cholesterol (both HDL and LDL), and very low carbs.  And stay away from gluten.


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## ArkRescue

PsyOps said:


> I am about half way through ‘Grain Brain’ and Perlmutter goes into detail about what happens to cholesterol and fat proteins when sugar is introduced to them.  I like to think about cholesterol and fat as lubricators and when sugar bonds with them, the ‘texture’ (my word) changes and it becomes rough against the cells of your body causing inflammation.  His big focus is on the brain.  Even though our brain has no nerve ending to feel pain, it still suffers from inflammation; and the result is the destruction of brain cells and thus things like Alzheimer’s, and Parkinson’s.  But he also goes into detail how all of this is the catalyst for diabetes and heart disease.
> 
> Basic premise: Lots of fat (good fat like eggs, avocados, fish, etc…), lots of cholesterol (both HDL and LDL), and very low carbs.  And stay away from gluten.



The book I have is Inflammation Free Diet which was recommended to a coworker of mine by someone who had already read several books and liked that one for having easy to grasp information that was helpful.

My Maternal Grandmother had ALZ but the family swears it was due to her regular (daily?) beer sipping.  She eventually had a stoke and had to be put into a nursing care facility.  My Mother shows no signs of it at all, but I am having short term memory issues since being on the Pravastatin.  I've actually heard that the statins have benefits to the body with reduced risk of stroke.


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## PsyOps

ArkRescue said:


> The book I have is Inflammation Free Diet which was recommended to a coworker of mine by someone who had already read several books and liked that one for having easy to grasp information that was helpful.
> 
> My Maternal Grandmother had ALZ but the family swears it was due to her regular (daily?) beer sipping.  She eventually had a stoke and had to be put into a nursing care facility.  My Mother shows no signs of it at all, but I am having short term memory issues since being on the Pravastatin.  I've actually heard that the statins have benefits to the body with reduced risk of stroke.



My grandmother died from Alzheimer’s and my mom now has it.  My mom was a pretty big beer drinker.  I don’t think my grandmother drank.  But beer has a ton of gluten in it.  Perlmutter claims gluten is the enemy of the brain.  But breads and wheat-based (and other grains with gluten) foods are huge in American diets.  So I am taking this whole ‘Grain Brain’ thing seriously.


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## Roman

PsyOps said:


> My grandmother died from Alzheimer’s and my mom now has it.  My mom was a pretty big beer drinker.  I don’t think my grandmother drank.  But beer has a ton of gluten in it.  Perlmutter claims gluten is the enemy of the brain.  But breads and wheat-based (and other grains with gluten) foods are huge in American diets.  So I am taking this whole ‘Grain Brain’ thing seriously.


I've been gluten-free since October 2014, and can't tell you how good I feel. If interested, read the book 101 Best Gluten-free Foods. Good recipes in there too.


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## ArkRescue

Roman said:


> I've been gluten-free since October 2014, and can't tell you how good I feel. If interested, read the book 101 Best Gluten-free Foods. Good recipes in there too.



I'm not a recipe person, probably because I don't get much time to cook.  I like making a couple of big meals, then fill up plastic containers to freeze and rotate what I eat day to day.  I do meals like pot roast with potatoes and carrots, or spaghetti.  No more turkey though, that's an inflammatory meat Waaaa.


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## PsyOps

Roman said:


> I've been gluten-free since October 2014, and can't tell you how good I feel. If interested, read the book 101 Best Gluten-free Foods. Good recipes in there too.



I don't have gluten allergy, but I am gluten intolerant.   I’ll check out the book.  Perlmutter also made his own cookbook that is centered gluten free and law carbs high fat/cholesterol.  He talks a lot about being careful with ‘gluten free’ foods that claim they are gluten free but the grains that included in those foods (like rice or oats) may have been grown on farms where wheat was grown and the gluten-laden germ from the wheat can ‘infect’ the otherwise-normally gluten-free food.  He also warns that a lot of gluten free foods are still high in carbs.


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## PsyOps

ArkRescue said:


> I'm not a recipe person, probably because I don't get much time to cook.  I like making a couple of big meals, then fill up plastic containers to freeze and rotate what I eat day to day.  I do meals like pot roast with potatoes and carrots, or spaghetti.  No more turkey though, that's an inflammatory meat Waaaa.



I didn't know turkey is an inflammatory meat?


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## ArkRescue

PsyOps said:


> I didn't know turkey is an inflammatory meat?



I am sure I read that, but I can't find the reference at the moment, so maybe someone else will chime in.


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## Bann

vraiblonde said:


> And what's ignorant is that, for me, it's easier to overhaul my diet than take one little teeny tiny pill every day.  I swear I am mental.  It's one of those weird aversion things that I can't explain.
> 
> My big deal is eggs - I love them and eat them daily.  But I also love steel cut oatmeal with apples and nuts, so there's no reason why I can't make that transition.  I rarely eat fish, even though I like it, so there's a swap.    There are a lot of things I could be doing different that I'll actually enjoy.  Rather than taking one little pill a day.  How messed up is that?



I don't know HOW I missed this thread!  I guess I've been mucho busy this week after work.     

ANYHOO,   I haven't read all the posts yet, so I may be repeating some other comments.  However, my first thoughts are I think you are right to make the changes you are motivated to make without popping the pills first. What harm can come from that?  All the diet changes you can make will probably be very good anyway.  Daily exercise in the form of daily cardio is the best.   Briskly walking, taking an aerobics class, doing the stationary or real life bike (at a fast enough pace to qualify as a good cardio workout.)

Anecdotally, my BFF's husband (you know who I mean) lost a LOT OF WEIGHT, lowered his triglycerides dramatically and his overall cholesterol to a healthy range by going on the Atkins diet. His triglycerides were off the chart and he was very overweight.  (He's only about 5'6" or 5'7")   His Dr. told him if he didn't lower the triglycerides, he was going to die.  He will be 50 in June, and this was a little over 10 years ago. You've seen him, so you know he's in better shape now than what I'm describing him at younger than 40!


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## SamSpade

vraiblonde said:


> Damn it!!!    I had a complete blood work thing done for my health insurance company and the lab called - my cholesterol is high (in the low 300s) and she has called in a prescription for some medication that I am to start taking right away.
> 
> I don't want to take this medication.  Or any medication.
> 
> There are a number of things I could be doing to lower my cholesterol naturally.  I could lose weight, I could give up eating animal things, I could get more exercise, I could eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast.  And yes, I would rather do those things than take a pill every day.  Plus I've been wanting to do those things anyway (except the eating animals part) but haven't really been that motivated.  But I am motivated now.
> 
> So what I'm going to do is blow off getting the prescription filled.  I see the doc again on Thursday anyway and will just explain to her that I'm not going to die in the next month, so I'm going to try to get rid of the bad stuff without pharmaceuticals.  If I can't get my numbers lowered within a month, then I'll consider the med option.
> 
> Is this too reckless and I should do what they say and not what I think is best?  I admit to being an insufferable know-it-all, but I think doctors rely too much on pills.  Plus I'm not interested in the crazy side-effects that go along with statin drugs.
> 
> Any advice?



I'm probably the wrong person to answer, since I have any number of prescriptions which get automatically refilled LONG BEFORE I finish the bottle (lots of skipped pills). I just forget. I have high blood pressure. There's really only a few things I can do to lower it; my Dad is very fit, but he has it as does my mom. It's genetic.

But my thought about avoiding prescriptions is to me like holding off on calling the fire department because you think you can handle a fire in your home. Maybe you can. But if you can't, it's not that you'll die but you WILL incur damage until they do arrive IF you put off calling them. I have any number of health problems that were small once, but became large over time, because I told myself I could deal with it myself - but after awhile, I stopped. I can say that after a few rounds of very severe chest pain, my first thought was dammit, I really should have done something about this.

I'm recalling what my doctor said to me many years ago before I had my gastric bypass - that while 95% of people who *succeed* in getting the weight off by diet and exercise do in fact gain it back - he advised me that in my condition then, I might live less than the time it would take to get the weight off.

My guess is - try it on your own. But consider a backup plan. Lifestyle changes are very difficult.


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## PsyOps

SamSpade said:


> I'm probably the wrong person to answer, since I have any number of prescriptions which get automatically refilled LONG BEFORE I finish the bottle (lots of skipped pills). I just forget. I have high blood pressure. There's really only a few things I can do to lower it; my Dad is very fit, but he has it as does my mom. It's genetic.
> 
> But my thought about avoiding prescriptions is to me like holding off on calling the fire department because you think you can handle a fire in your home. Maybe you can. But if you can't, it's not that you'll die but you WILL incur damage until they do arrive IF you put off calling them. I have any number of health problems that were small once, but became large over time, because I told myself I could deal with it myself - but after awhile, I stopped. I can say that after a few rounds of very severe chest pain, my first thought was dammit, I really should have done something about this.
> 
> I'm recalling what my doctor said to me many years ago before I had my gastric bypass - that while 95% of people who *succeed* in getting the weight off by diet and exercise do in fact gain it back - he advised me that in my condition then, I might live less than the time it would take to get the weight off.
> 
> My guess is - try it on your own. But consider a backup plan. Lifestyle changes are very difficult.



The biggest lifestyle change being ‘age’.  

So, a bit off topic… my wife had HBP.  One day she ended in the hospital really sick from gall stones.  They did scans and happen to find a tumor on her adrenal gland.  It was an ‘active’ tumor which caused her to secrete more adrenalin than normal, which caused her HBP.  When it was removed her BP went back to normal.  This can happen with of our glands.  Just something to think about regarding HBP.


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## ProximaCentauri

vraiblonde said:


> Damn it!!!    I had a complete blood work thing done for my health insurance company and the lab called - my cholesterol is high (in the low 300s) and she has called in a prescription for some medication that I am to start taking right away.
> 
> I don't want to take this medication.  Or any medication.
> 
> There are a number of things I could be doing to lower my cholesterol naturally.  I could lose weight, I could give up eating animal things, I could get more exercise, I could eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast.  And yes, I would rather do those things than take a pill every day.  Plus I've been wanting to do those things anyway (except the eating animals part) but haven't really been that motivated.  But I am motivated now.
> 
> So what I'm going to do is blow off getting the prescription filled.  I see the doc again on Thursday anyway and will just explain to her that I'm not going to die in the next month, so I'm going to try to get rid of the bad stuff without pharmaceuticals.  If I can't get my numbers lowered within a month, then I'll consider the med option.
> 
> Is this too reckless and I should do what they say and not what I think is best?  I admit to being an insufferable know-it-all, but I think doctors rely too much on pills.  Plus I'm not interested in the crazy side-effects that go along with statin drugs.
> 
> Any advice?



If you have a good HDL number (55+) your risk is lowered significantly. I think you're smart to try the holistic, non drug therapy route, with no prior cardio issues. Your family history also plays a major factor for your personal risk. Both my grandfathers died before the age of 52. I had emergency open heart surgery, even though I was running 10k s and weighed only 185lbs at 6'. I dramatically changed my diet, but take a statin and a beta-blocker to further reduce my risk, and because my cardiologist would disown me.


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## FlyFishin

People who have changed to a plant based, whole food life style have reduced thier cholestrol levels by 40% in ten days.  No meat, no fish, no dairy. No added salt, no oils, no sugar.  Minimize processed foods. Read the China study by t. Colin Campbell  or Prevent  and Reverse Heart Disease by dr Caldwell Esselstyn.  Go to Netflix and watch the documentary "Forks over Knives".  It is not a matter of what you can't eat its a matter of how much good food you can eat.  Pharmaceutical companies, meat industry, dairy industry, mega processed food producers, and a health system that gets paid to fix health problems rather than prevent them,makes it very difficult when it comes to the Standard American Diet (SAD).   Doctors are trained by Universities that have research funded by the big pharmaceuticals ,meat,dairy and processed food Giants.  Plant based whole foods: the stuff our great,great grand parents called "food".


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## MMDad

FlyFishin said:


> People who have changed to a plant based, whole food life style have reduced thier cholestrol levels by 40% in ten days.  No meat, no fish, no dairy. No added salt, no oils, no sugar.  Minimize processed foods. Read the China study by t. Colin Campbell  or Prevent  and Reverse Heart Disease by dr Caldwell Esselstyn.  Go to Netflix and watch the documentary "Forks over Knives".  It is not a matter of what you can't eat its a matter of how much good food you can eat.  Pharmaceutical companies, meat industry, dairy industry, mega processed food producers, and a health system that gets paid to fix health problems rather than prevent them,makes it very difficult when it comes to the Standard American Diet (SAD).   Doctors are trained by Universities that have research funded by the big pharmaceuticals ,meat,dairy and processed food Giants.  Plant based whole foods: the stuff our great,great grand parents called "food".



Why would you want to live longer if it's a miserable, meatless existence? Face it, either God or Mother Nature made us omnivores. To go against that is just plain wrong. Eat meat, enjoy life, and die happy.


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## vraiblonde

MMDad said:


> Why would you want to live longer if it's a miserable, meatless existence? Face it, either God or Mother Nature made us omnivores. To go against that is just plain wrong. Eat meat, enjoy life, and die happy.



I have cut back on my meat eating (and dairy) a great deal and I am not miserable.  :shrug:

I don't know if I really care so much about living longer, but I am very concerned about having health problems that aren't enough to kill me, just enough to incapacitate me in some way.  That would suck.


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## Pete

I take statins and have no effects other than my chol level is down.  I was not 300+ I was low 200's like 2015 or something.


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## huntr1

I was 300+ too.  Started on 10 MG Crestor.  Numbers came down.  Upped to 20 MG Crestor.  Numbers down more.  Need to go to the Dr. now, haven't been in about a year.  Need to see where my numbers are.  No cramps for me.  Used to be $18.00 a month w/insurance and Crestor card, now with Affordable Care Act, it's $50.00 a month for same thing.


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## FlyFishin

MMDad said:


> Why would you want to live longer if it's a miserable, meatless existence? Face it, either God or Mother Nature made us omnivores. To go against that is just plain wrong. Eat meat, enjoy life, and die happy.



Understood. I am on the extreme side because I need to be.  Don't feel like I am missing anything.  They say if you can limit meat products to a couple of times a week it is a great improvement .  Paraphrasing vrai... Not worried about extending my life as much as living it until I die.


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## PsyOps

Please watch this video.  It's a relatively short explanation about fat, cholesterol and heart disease.

[video=youtube;xQnileaJw2Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQnileaJw2Y[/video]

We have been taught that cholesterol (particularly LDL) is what causes heart disease.  It does not.  Our bodies need fat and both forms of cholesterol (especially the brain).  Cholesterol in its pure form (as you eat it; like eggs) is extremely healthy and your body is hungry for it for health reasons.  What causes heart disease is sugar (in the form of carbs).  Sugar modifies the cholesterol (LDL) causing it to change its shape and causes damage to the cells of your body: Inflammation.  This inflammation occurs in your arteries causing damage that allows plaque to stick to it.  You have to stop all the breads, pastas, and other foods loaded with carbs.  We have been conditioned to obey that food pyramid where grains are at the bottom with the most serving per day, and the fats and oils at the top with the least.  Our bodies really need just the opposite.  Think about what we feed babies.  Breast milk.  Breast milk is made mostly of fat.  Nature designed it that way because the development of our brain and cells of our body need it - badly.  This doesn't change just because we get older.

This doesn't even touch what high fat, high cholesterol, low carbs does for the brain and general inflammation of the body.  Do some reading about this.  Doctors are doing us a disservice by pumping us full of pills.  You get to eat meat, eggs, and all the other things your doctor might tell you to avoid.  What you should be avoiding is carbs.


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## ArkRescue

Pete said:


> I take statins and have no effects other than my chol level is down.  I was not 300+ I was low 200's like 2015 or something.



I was amazingly 300+ but I am in the 200's now.  I will know exactly when I get to the Dr. to get my physical done.


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