# The Kennedy assassination



## GregV814

Clear and simple..an illegal power grab by the elderly and unelectable LBJ...


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## vraiblonde

GregV814 said:


> Clear and simple..an illegal power grab by the elderly and unelectable LBJ...



LBJ wasn't tapped in enough.  But I do not believe Oswald acted alone.  I think the Bilderburg Group had him knocked off.


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## mamatutu

GregV814 said:


> Clear and simple..an illegal power grab by the elderly and unelectable LBJ...



I was 8 years old and on the school bus on the way home from school when I heard.  My parents cried for a couple of days.  They were Repubs.  In all my years of seeing documentaries, news, theories, etc., I agree with you that Johnson was behind it.  He was more well connected to the underworld than people may think.


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## Larry Gude

Clear and simple. A nobody trying to be a somebody killed JFK. Oswald acted alone. 

http://www.amazon.com/Live-By-The-Sword-Against/dp/1890862010


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## GURPS

It was a Mafia Hit ....


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## SamSpade

Larry Gude said:


> Clear and simple. A nobody trying to be a somebody killed JFK. Oswald acted alone.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Live-By-The-Sword-Against/dp/1890862010



That's what I think. Every other theory involves too much evidence NOT coming to light.
The magic bullet theory has been completely debunked.

The reason I don't get into conspiracy theories is that it ALWAYS depends on evidence NOT being there and a claim
that the TRUE evidence has been withheld. It's all questions and speculation rather than proof and facts.


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## Larry Gude

SamSpade said:


> That's what I think. Every other theory involves too much evidence NOT coming to light.
> The magic bullet theory has been completely debunked.
> 
> The reason I don't get into conspiracy theories is that it ALWAYS depends on evidence NOT being there and a claim
> that the TRUE evidence has been withheld. It's all questions and speculation rather than proof and facts.




There is a brilliant South Park episode that involves the 9/11 conspiracies and, at the end, it is revealed that the gummint is behind the promotion of all the theories based on the very simple predicate that it simply won't do for we, the people to know that, sometimes, the government simply ####s up. That is MUST be, for the good of the nation, that SOMEONE, or SOMETHING is responsible and that we merely need more gummint to address that thing or person so it doesn't happen again. 

9/11 happened, directly, because of the actions taken post JFK assassination to cover up the gummints #### ups back then. The CIA and FBI did know who Oswald was. They did know he was, sort of, a threat, kinda of, maybe, but, he was judged, several times, to be too much of a loser, too much of a oddball, to be taken seriously. There was no way the government could let it be known, at least that is the thinking of those in power, that we KNEW and we didn't stop him. 

Another view, the second layer of that is simply ass covering so that no one in power is ever held responsible because that would do the same thing; cause doubt in the minds of the people as to the real power and use and need of government. 

9/11 happened because the FBI was not allowed to close in on Atta and pals because they got some of their info from CIA and Assistant AG Gorelick made the correct LEGAL call from the Warren Commission, the separation, the wall, between domestic, FBI, and ovre seas, CIA; you boys can't do that. 

Then, what happens? Ol' Jamie is ON the 9/11 Commission. 

"So, Mr. Fox, what can you tell us about the great chicken coop caper?"   

"Well, sirs, we did all we could do to prevent it. No one is at fault and #### happens sometimes...We do, however, recommend a few new departments and studies. You know, to see this sort of thing(s) doesn't happen again..."


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## GURPS

Larry Gude said:


> Another view, the second layer of that is simply ass covering so that no one in power is ever held responsible because that would do the same thing; cause doubt in the minds of the people as to the real power and use and need of government.




this IMHO is the bigger issue, Hoover was embarrassed ... the President could be murdered and the FBI had NO Clue a plot was in progress .... 
so key evidence was buried ...


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## Retrodeb54

Larry Gude said:


> Clear and simple. *A nobody trying to be a somebody killed JFK*. Oswald acted alone.



A nobody _patsy_ picked by our own, then taken out by our own. Jack Ruby was hand picked to do his part too I feel. After years of reading on this and all the conspiracy theories out there, my opinion is JFK was just too powerful and _many felt he posed a threat_. Our own government, the mafia (an apple that doesn't fall far from the tree)  and other countries included. Remember how he almost pushed the red button? Even outside of the White House his family was all powerful. I really don't see Oswald acting alone.

All IMHO of course.


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## Larry Gude

Retrodeb54 said:


> A nobody _patsy_ picked by our own, then taken out by our own. Jack Ruby was hand picked to do his part too I feel. After years of reading on this and all the conspiracy theories out there, my opinion is JFK was just too powerful and _many felt he posed a threat_. Our own government, the mafia (an apple that doesn't fall far from the tree)  and other countries included. Remember how he almost pushed the red button? Even outside of the White House his family was all powerful. I really don't see Oswald acting alone.
> 
> All IMHO of course.




That's why it is so easy to sell conspiracy theories; like religion, people WANT to believe. 

LBJ/Mafia/RFK killed JFK. 
Elections are rigged simply to placate the masses.
Obama didn't win. He was chosen.
Dubbya didn't win. He was chosen.
We didn't land on the moon
FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and let it happen so we could go to war


The sad, boring truth, most of the time, is the obvious; someone ####ed up. Someone else had too much to lose to let it be that simple. Someone who wanted to be someone who had too much to lose went along with it. 

I mean, look at the lies parents tell their kids. It's for the greater good. As they see it. And there is a case to be made for it. I was open and honest with my kids about smoking dope as a kid. They both at least tried it. One of them struggles with it. Some people dear to me lied their asses off to their kids and they have the best kids imaginable. 

We all can probably figure out something we wish we were never told. 

I have a dear friend, a woman, who told me that Bill Clinton was doing the right and honorable thing by lying to Hillary; "What women, baby? There ain't no one but you, sugar!" 

Wall Street is nothing but lies. A legal confidence game. All the leveraging is based on lies. More specifically, enough people believing the lies. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. 

The TEA party opposes government controlled health care spending like the ACA and supports the government controlled health care spending we had before it. 

Lincoln did NOT go to war to end slavery. 

Bush told a half truth (aka a whole lie) about WMD to do what he believed was in the national interest. 

Most of us work in environments where you go along to get along, ignoring waste, fraud and abuse and rationalizing it as the done thing. 

The mafia can't fail if everyone keeps their mouth shut. 

The IRS scandals, Watergate, spying on the media, Benghazi, Clinton's affairs, if everyone plays ball, it's all good. 

Baseball pretended they'd never heard of steroids when it, finally, became impossible to ignore and the press did the same thing. Players did what they did gambling everyone would just go along. 

BP got away with horrible rules violations in the Gulf spill because too many people had too much to lose if they actually had to pay for what they did wrong. 

TARP was ALL about hanging together or hanging apart. 

The GM bailouts, Ford had to go along even though they didn't need it. 

Our troops have been working, and dying, for the Saudi's for over a decade. 

The church protected pedophile priests for the greater good. 

We're protecting heroin lords in A'stan. 

:shrug:


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## Larry Gude

GURPS said:


> this IMHO is the bigger issue, Hoover was embarrassed ... the President could be murdered and the FBI had NO Clue a plot was in progress ....
> so key evidence was buried ...



The Warren Commission said "If the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing, and vice versa, there will always be plausible denialbility. 

That protects the government.


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## vraiblonde

Retrodeb54 said:


> A nobody _patsy_ picked by our own, then taken out by our own. Jack Ruby was hand picked to do his part too I feel. After years of reading on this and all the conspiracy theories out there, my opinion is JFK was just too powerful and _many felt he posed a threat_. Our own government, the mafia (an apple that doesn't fall far from the tree)  and other countries included. Remember how he almost pushed the red button? Even outside of the White House his family was all powerful. I really don't see Oswald acting alone.



Yep.  The Ruby part is just way too coincidental, especially when coupled with his lame excuse.

JFK was reckless, with his bimbos and playboy behavior.  He wasn't a terribly strong leader nor was he particularly intelligent; pretty much all he had was charisma and Daddy's money.  It's not a stretch to think the CIA or the mafia or whoever really controls government in this country took him out of the equation.  Look what happened under LBJ:  welfare, entitlement...um, Vietnam. 

Forget all the so-called "evidence" - I have never personally seen any of it, documents can be falsified, there are different accounts of what "really" happened, who was involved with who, etc etc etc.  What we, the people sitting here at our computers 50 years later with no access to anything, do know is that Oswald was arrested for the assassination and Jack Ruby killed him while he was being escorted to jail by a number of police officers, and gave the reason that he wanted to spare Jackie the trauma of a trial.  That right there is bull####, no two ways about it.  It's plain and simple bull####, which tells me there is much much more to the story and it has been covered up.


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## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> Yep.  The Ruby part is just way too coincidental, especially when coupled with his lame excuse.
> 
> JFK was reckless, with his bimbos and playboy behavior.  He wasn't a terribly strong leader nor was he particularly intelligent; pretty much all he had was charisma and Daddy's money.  It's not a stretch to think the CIA or the mafia or whoever really controls government in this country took him out of the equation.  Look what happened under LBJ:  welfare, entitlement...um, Vietnam.
> 
> Forget all the so-called "evidence" - I have never personally seen any of it, documents can be falsified, there are different accounts of what "really" happened, who was involved with who, etc etc etc.  What we, the people sitting here at our computers 50 years later with no access to anything, do know is that Oswald was arrested for the assassination and Jack Ruby killed him while he was being escorted to jail by a number of police officers, and gave the reason that he wanted to spare Jackie the trauma of a trial.  That right there is bull####, no two ways about it.  It's plain and simple bull####, which tells me there is much much more to the story and it has been covered up.



"It CAN'T be!!!"

I rest my case.  


Of course, just to play along, if 'THEY' have ALL that power, enough to murder the President of the United States of America and get away with it, why on earth would they need to???


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## Retrodeb54

vraiblonde said:


> Yep.  The Ruby part is just way too coincidental, especially when coupled with his lame excuse.
> 
> JFK was reckless, with his bimbos and playboy behavior.  He wasn't a terribly strong leader nor was he particularly intelligent; pretty much all he had was charisma and Daddy's money.  It's not a stretch to think the CIA or the mafia or whoever really controls government in this country took him out of the equation.  Look what happened under LBJ:  welfare, entitlement...um, Vietnam.
> 
> Forget all the so-called "evidence" - I have never personally seen any of it, documents can be falsified, there are different accounts of what "really" happened, who was involved with who, etc etc etc.  What we, the people sitting here at our computers 50 years later with no access to anything, do know is that Oswald was arrested for the assassination and Jack Ruby killed him while he was being escorted to jail by a number of police officers, and gave the reason that he wanted to spare Jackie the trauma of a trial.  That right there is bull####, no two ways about it.  It's plain and simple bull####, which tells me there is much much more to the story and it has been covered up.



LIKE


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## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Of course, just to play along, if 'THEY' have ALL that power, enough to murder the President of the United States of America and get away with it, why on earth would they need to???



The President is just a man.  If you think any of our US Presidents were the be all end all of world dominating power.....well, I don't know what to tell you.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.


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## Retrodeb54

Larry Gude said:


> "It CAN'T be!!!"
> 
> I rest my case.
> 
> 
> Of course, just to play along, if 'THEY' have ALL that power, enough to murder the President of the United States of America and get away with it, why on earth would they need to???



Catch your breath. 'sheesh'


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## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> The President is just a man.  If you think any of our US Presidents were the be all end all of world dominating power.....well, I don't know what to tell you.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.



But, that's my point! He is JUST a man! Why would folks powerful enough to kill him, and cover it up, need to bother with killing him, at all?


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## Larry Gude

Retrodeb54 said:


> Catch your breath. 'sheesh'



Well, it's a fair question. On the one hand, the reason to kill him; he won't do what we want! On the other, the power to not only kill him but to get enough people to go along with it? Why not just get those people to go along with what you want done in the first place and stay out of the risk of murder? Good Lord. LBJ went ahead and did what JFK wanted anyway but, was struggling with; Civil rights and war in Southeast Asia.


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## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> But, that's my point! He is JUST a man! Why would folks powerful enough to kill him, and cover it up, need to bother with killing him, at all?



Because he won't cooperate.


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## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> Because he won't cooperate.



Well, the President is just a man. If you think any of our US Presidents were the be all end all of world dominating power.....well, I don't know what to tell you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.




Wait....


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## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Good Lord. LBJ went ahead and did what JFK wanted anyway but, was struggling with; Civil rights and war in Southeast Asia.



Guess he learned his lesson when Kennedy was killed, eh?


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## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> Guess he learned his lesson when Kennedy was killed, eh?



Yeah. We were just talking the other day how Fat Tony, Guido Jr. and Pauly, the other Pauly, killed JFK because he wasn't moving fast enough on civil rights for the black man...


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## Pete

vraiblonde said:


> Yep.  The Ruby part is just way too coincidental, especially when coupled with his lame excuse.
> 
> JFK was reckless, with his bimbos and playboy behavior.  He wasn't a terribly strong leader nor was he particularly intelligent; pretty much all he had was charisma and Daddy's money.  It's not a stretch to think the CIA or the mafia or whoever really controls government in this country took him out of the equation.  Look what happened under LBJ:  welfare, entitlement...um, Vietnam.
> 
> Forget all the so-called "evidence" - I have never personally seen any of it, documents can be falsified, there are different accounts of what "really" happened, who was involved with who, etc etc etc.  What we, the people sitting here at our computers 50 years later with no access to anything, do know is that Oswald was arrested for the assassination and Jack Ruby killed him while he was being escorted to jail by a number of police officers, and gave the reason that he wanted to spare Jackie the trauma of a trial.  That right there is bull####, no two ways about it.  It's plain and simple bull####, which tells me there is much much more to the story and it has been covered up.



His brother getting whacked a couple years later also makes me wonder if someone was getting even with the Kennedy clan.  Maybe Joe owed someone something.


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## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Yeah. We were just talking the other day how Fat Tony, Guido Jr. and Pauly, the other Pauly, killed JFK because he wasn't moving fast enough on civil rights for the black man...



Do you deny that Socialism is good for business among the powerful?


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## vraiblonde

Pete said:


> His brother getting whacked a couple years later also makes me wonder if someone was getting even with the Kennedy clan.  Maybe Joe owed someone something.



And then there's that.  I don't think old Joe had anything to do with it, I think it was more to rouse the rabble and create martyrs to rally 'round.


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## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> Do you deny that Socialism is good for business among the powerful?



It's great for them. Control the vending machines, control the masses.


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## Larry Gude

Pete said:


> His brother getting whacked a couple years later also makes me wonder if someone was getting even with the Kennedy clan.  Maybe Joe owed someone something.



No, see, what happened is, see, RFK whacked Hoffa to pay off election debts from the Chicago thing, that thing, not the other thing, BUT wouldn't tell them where the body was, see, because he wanted it as insurance and then, the mob got all like "Where is he!?" and Bobby was like "Where is who?" and then, at some point, it dawns on everyone that Joe was right all along about the Nazi's; At least THEY didn't have to answer to the grease-balls. Then, see...Mussolini started acting up and said 'fogetaaboutit' and Hitler was like 'Wha???" and then, The Jew, the Irish one, from the East side says...


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## SamSpade

I seem to remember reading that credible, real threats to our Presidents happen all the time - they only REALLY hit the news when they succeed or partially succeed.

Did John Hinckley Jr work alone? That one was close, and Reagan DID get shot.
How about Squeaky Fromme, or Sara Jane Moore? Did they act alone?
The guy who shot George Wallace had previously been thwarted trying to kill Nixon.

It's actually pretty easy to look up failed attempts if you're just looking at the high profile ones or the ones that made the news because they were so spectacularly stupid (like the different men who have opened fire at the White House over the years). But it's like that line in "Men in Black" where Tommy Lee Jones says 

"There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and the only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they DO NOT KNOW ABOUT IT! "

Assassination attempts happen all the time. From what I read, they're acting alone, because they're usually bat#### crazy when they do it.


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## Larry Gude

SamSpade said:


> I seem to remember reading that credible, real threats to our Presidents happen all the time - they only REALLY hit the news when they succeed or partially succeed.
> 
> Did John Hinckley Jr work alone? That one was close, and Reagan DID get shot.
> How about Squeaky Fromme, or Sara Jane Moore? Did they act alone?
> The guy who shot George Wallace had previously been thwarted trying to kill Nixon.
> 
> It's actually pretty easy to look up failed attempts if you're just looking at the high profile ones or the ones that made the news because they were so spectacularly stupid (like the different men who have opened fire at the White House over the years). But it's like that line in "Men in Black" where Tommy Lee Jones says
> 
> "There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and the only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they DO NOT KNOW ABOUT IT! "
> 
> Assassination attempts happen all the time. From what I read, they're acting alone, because they're usually bat#### crazy when they do it.



OK but, Arquillian Battle cruisers is one thing. We care WAY too much about presidents. We have an entire line of succession that would require an Arquillian Battle cruiser fleet to get them all specifically so Arquillian battle cruisers CAN'T ruin our day.


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## vraiblonde

Oh, I absolutely believe there are lone nuts out there.  I just don't think Oswald was one of them.

The most successful criminals are the ones you never hear about...because they got away with it.


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## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> Oh, I absolutely believe there are lone nuts out there.  I just don't think Oswald was one of them.
> 
> The most successful criminals are the ones you never hear about...because they got away with it.



The most successful criminals are the ones that are officially sanctioned. We know all their names. And they still get away with it.


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## Retrodeb54

Pete said:


> His brother getting whacked a couple years later also makes me wonder if someone was getting even with the Kennedy clan.  Maybe Joe owed someone something.



I thought on this point again this morning. Seeing what happened when he tried to get his foot in the door. I don't think so much that it was a get even with the family thing. I do feel it was another warning that they weren't welcome in the White House. That so much power is dangerous. The Kennedys were all powerful, strong willed and do it my way men.


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## vraiblonde

Retrodeb54 said:


> The Kennedys were all powerful, strong willed and do it my way men.



I see both Jack and especially Bobby as idealists, and money/power guys hate the idealistic unless they can control them and use them for gain.

I almost never believe that what we see is what's really happening.  There's always something more to the story that we rabble are not privy to.


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## AnthonyJames

I don't care who killed them, I'm just grateful that someone did or the Dead Kennedys would not have had a name for their band.


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## Hank

AnthonyJames said:


> I don't care who killed them, I'm just grateful that someone did or the Dead Kennedys would not have had a name for their band.



Why? They suck!


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## GregV814

odd in a way that hours after the disappearing jet over South Asia/Vietnam, the authorities knew two passengers were holding stolen passports. and it was only a few hours after 9/11 the identities of the men were established.....


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## AnthonyJames

Hank said:


> Why? They suck!



So you have something in common then.


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## Larry Gude

GregV814 said:


> o  and it was only a few hours after 9/11 the identities of the men were established.....



Why is it odd? The FBI had been tracking them for some time. The CIA new who they were. The Justice Department knew who they were and told the FBI to back off because the law didn't allow for further investigation because some of the FBI info came from CIA.

What's odd is when the person who denied the FBI's request for deeper investigation is put on the commission to investigate...what went 'wrong'. That's odd.


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## Retrodeb54

GregV814 said:


> odd in a way that hours after the disappearing jet over South Asia/Vietnam, the authorities knew two passengers were holding stolen passports. and it was only a few hours after 9/11 the identities of the men were established.....



...and? This has *what* to do with the Kennedy assassination? Why not start another thread on your subject.


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## Larry Gude

Retrodeb54 said:


> ...and? This has *what* to do with the Kennedy assassination? Why not start another thread on your subject.



I think he was suggesting they knew who Oswald was pretty soon. And they did. Because they did. And the ghost of Lee Harvey haunts us to this day.


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