# What would you do in a case like this???



## Monello

I've been retired for a while.  I'm sure the rules for rape/sexual abuse reporting have been given in annual training.  I got this off of a military board.  I don't know any of the people involved in this.  I find this an interesting dilemma.  So what would you do?  Please state branch of service and LOS.



> So on Halloween a few of my coworkers wanted to go out, but I was in a bad mood so decided not to join them. Our female E5 (I'm an E6) was mostly disappointed because I'm one of her better friends in our very, very small company (around 10 people). She ended up getting incredibly drunk and had some guy from the bar take her home instead of our DD that was there. She went when he was in the latrine and didn't notice.
> ... When they got to her place, she had sex with him, but was too drunk to really know what was going on. A couple of hours later the realization came in of what had happened and she started freaking out.
> 
> I get a call at 0500 from a crying girl saying she got raped. I went over there and talked with her about it, tried to take her to the hospital, but she wouldn't go. Even after she sobered up completely she still would not go, and didn't want me to report it. She feels embarrassed and ashamed, etc.
> Granted, she did drink and it might have been consensual-ish, but with her being that drunk, we all know SHARP says that it's technically rape. Plus seeing her reaction when the realization set in was pretty severe.
> 
> So, what would you all do in a professional aspect here? I know I'm obligated to report it, but at the same time it turned into a pretty large argument between us when I said I was going to. Of course she pulled the friend card and told me not to.
> 
> It's been eating away at me pretty well the last few days, so I just want to know what you all would do? Risk the friendship and possible hostile work environment that would be caused by reporting it, or be miserable knowing that the only thing you can do to help is report it and she won't let you.
> 
> I do have a little bit of guilt, because I know that if I had gone none of this would have happened, but I also know it's not my fault... It's just that human nature thing making me think of the "what if."
> 
> Also, on a side note, no one knew who this guy was and have never seen him before. They only know about what he looks like and that he was an E7. So even reporting it would make it a little more difficult to find him, but it might help her out in the long run. Opinions please.


----------



## vraiblonde

She is responsible for getting so drunk that she took a stranger home and had sex with him.  That is not my definition of rape.


----------



## Bann

I agree with Vrai - she's responsible for getting drunk and having sex with a "stranger".   That's not rape in my opinion, either. 

She's described as a "crying girl" in the post, but an E5 is hardly a girl.  You have to have a few years in before reaching an E5 rank.


----------



## vraiblonde

Bann said:


> She's described as a "crying girl" in the post, but an E5 is hardly a girl.



And there's a great point:  this woman is an E-5 in the US military.  She is sworn to defend our country, and here she is getting drunk and having sex with strangers, then bawling about it.  A girl - not a woman, not a soldier, but a girl.  I think she should be discharged and the letter writer should report it for that purpose.


----------



## Bann

vraiblonde said:


> And there's a great point:  this woman is an E-5 in the US military.  She is sworn to defend our country, and here she is getting drunk and having sex with strangers, then bawling about it.  A girl - not a woman, not a soldier, but a girl.  I think she should be discharged and the letter writer should report it for that purpose.


----------



## Larry Gude

What on earth could be the negative consequence of honoring a friend and NOT reporting it? How stupid a policy is that? Sounds like she's embarrassed, is willing to take responsibility. What earthly good can come of reporting it???


----------



## MMDad

How do we know that he doesn't feel raped? If he was drunk and she took him to her place, who is the aggressor?


----------



## Larry Gude

MMDad said:


> How do we know that he doesn't feel raped? If he was drunk and she took him to her place, who is the aggressor?



Yeah! He's probably so ashamed and feeling so violated that he's sitting a in a bar right now, sharing his...trauma...with his pals and swilling beers and throwing down wings in an effort to try and regain some sense of dignity and casting about for a reason to go on...being a pig who likes ####ing drunk chicks.


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Yeah! He's probably so ashamed and feeling so violated that he's sitting a in a bar right now, sharing his...trauma...with his pals and swilling beers and throwing down wings in an effort to try and regain some sense of dignity and casting about for a reason to go on...being a pig who likes ####ing drunk chicks.



For every you, there are millions of not-yous.

Maybe she's a huge skank and he wouldn't have done her if sober?

Maybe he's married or has a girlfriend?

Maybe she gave him the clap?

You don't know.  He could be having buyer's remorse as well.


----------



## MMDad

Larry Gude said:


> Yeah! He's probably so ashamed and feeling so violated that he's sitting a in a bar right now, sharing his...trauma...with his pals and swilling beers and throwing down wings in an effort to try and regain some sense of dignity and casting about for a reason to go on...being a pig who likes ####ing drunk chicks.



If our society has decided that getting drunk and ####ing some random dude makes you a rape victim, then why not use the same standard for a man?

Of course it's silly, but that's my point. If feminazis want "equal rights" then those rights go both ways.


----------



## MMDad

vraiblonde said:


> You don't know.  He could be having buyer's remorse as well.



The terms "coyote ugly" or "beer goggles" would not exist if most guys didn't know the feeling first hand.


----------



## Ken King

ex-USAF 12 years active duty.  

The drunk says don't report it, so don't report it.  Sounds as if she is having regrets for her activities and is unsure if what happened was rape or simply drunken proclivity.  If she was my subordinate the most I would do is insist that she gets into an alcohol treatment program.


----------



## Bann

vraiblonde said:


> For every you, there are millions of not-yous.
> 
> Maybe she's a huge skank and he wouldn't have done her if sober?
> 
> Maybe he's married or has a girlfriend?
> 
> Maybe she gave him the clap?
> 
> You don't know.  *He could be having buyer's remorse as well.*




Oh, wow!  I actually HAD that same phrase in my original post, because that is what first came to mind when I read it.  I took it out, so as not to sound too harsh, but buyer's remorse is exactly what I think she had.


----------



## Merlin99

Ken King said:


> ex-USAF 12 years active duty.
> 
> *The drunk says don't report it, so don't report it.*  Sounds as if she is having regrets for her activities and is unsure if what happened was rape or simply drunken proclivity.  If she was my subordinate the most I would do is insist that she gets into an alcohol treatment program.


I think I might want to get that part in writing. If she decides to report it later and it comes out, he may face charges of accessory to rape after the fact for not reporting it.


----------



## MMDad

Ken King said:


> ex-USAF 12 years active duty.
> 
> The drunk says don't report it, so don't report it.  Sounds as if she is having regrets for her activities and is unsure if what happened was rape or simply drunken proclivity.  If she was my subordinate the most I would do is insist that she gets into an alcohol treatment program.





> Our female E5 (I'm an E6) was mostly disappointed because I'm one of her better friends in our very, very small company (around 10 people).



E-5 tells E-6 in her own unit. She already reported it. The E-5 now has no say in the matter. The E-6 has no choice but to pass it up the chain.


----------



## jesj

Navy, 10 years active

Given the benefit of hindsight for a similar incident (civilian friend), I would argue with her to immediately go to the ER to have a rape kit performed (checked for physical trauma, STDs, and drugs).  Encourage her to at least file a restricted report.  With a restricted report, she will get medical care without starting an investigation.  If there's a possibility that she was the instigator, and that she simply has no memory of this, a restricted report will open up avenues for her to get help.  If that rape kit says that she was drugged, or if enough of her memory returns such that she chooses to convert to an unrestricted report, she can.

As for me reporting it, I would talk to the SARC without disclosing any names.  There simply aren't enough details in the post to know enough about what happened to make any sort of definitive statement or pass judgement.  She is fairly certain that she was raped, but it could have been "consensual-ish".  She left the bar when her DD was in the head.  The other person was an E7.  If she did not give consent, it was rape.  If she was too drunk to legally give consent, but gave consent anyway, then we reach the start of the gray area in which we have to determine if he was sober enough to realize she was too drunk to give consent.  The SARC would be in a better position to help, to ask the right questions, and figure out what exactly went on.

As far as having a requirement to report it, "(4) A victim has a privilege to refuse to disclose and to prevent any other person from disclosing a confidential communication between a victim and a victim advocate, in a case arising under the UCMJ, if such communication is made for the purpose of facilitating advice or supportive assistance to the victim in accordance with Reference (q)," from DODINST 6495.02.  I would argue that she confided in a victim advocate, though not a SAPR VA.


----------



## BOP

jesj said:


> Navy, 10 years active
> 
> Given the benefit of hindsight for a similar incident (civilian friend), I would argue with her to immediately go to the ER to have a rape kit performed (checked for physical trauma, STDs, and drugs).  Encourage her to at least file a restricted report.  With a restricted report, she will get medical care without starting an investigation.  If there's a possibility that she was the instigator, and that she simply has no memory of this, a restricted report will open up avenues for her to get help.  If that rape kit says that she was drugged, or if enough of her memory returns such that she chooses to convert to an unrestricted report, she can.
> 
> As for me reporting it, I would talk to the SARC without disclosing any names.  There simply aren't enough details in the post to know enough about what happened to make any sort of definitive statement or pass judgement.  She is fairly certain that she was raped, but it could have been "consensual-ish".  She left the bar when her DD was in the head.  The other person was an E7.  If she did not give consent, it was rape.  If she was too drunk to legally give consent, but gave consent anyway, then we reach the start of the gray area in which we have to determine if he was sober enough to realize she was too drunk to give consent.  The SARC would be in a better position to help, to ask the right questions, and figure out what exactly went on.
> 
> As far as having a requirement to report it, "(4) A victim has a privilege to refuse to disclose and to prevent any other person from disclosing a confidential communication between a victim and a victim advocate, in a case arising under the UCMJ, if such communication is made for the purpose of facilitating advice or supportive assistance to the victim in accordance with Reference (q)," from DODINST 6495.02.  I would argue that she confided in a victim advocate, though not a SAPR VA.



Navy, 6 years; got out in '78.  We didn't have all the resources back then that they have now.  Hell, they didn't even have random drug testing except for certain specialties.  

Back then, I would have gone to the chaplain for advice.  That was about the only way to ensure any kind of confidentiality in those days.

Having taken the POSH (annual training), I'd say you're spot on.  The E-6's "friend" may hate him/her, but both of them should understand by this point in their careers that their professional obligations transcend their personal inhibitions.

Thankfully for the E-5, the incident doesn't have to get broadcast all over hell's half acre like it once would have, and both she and her friend are protected, should there be any nasty fallout over all this.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> For every you, there are millions of not-yous.
> 
> Maybe she's a huge skank and he wouldn't have done her if sober?
> 
> Maybe he's married or has a girlfriend?
> 
> Maybe she gave him the clap?
> 
> You don't know.  He could be having buyer's remorse as well.



All of which has nothing to do with the point; in this case with the given details, if SHE doesn't want it reported, why isn't that the end of it?

Also, you, as usual, are harder on the woman than the man. Where is the 'too bad for him' that you gave to her, huh?


----------



## Larry Gude

MMDad said:


> If our society has decided that getting drunk and ####ing some random dude makes you a rape victim, then why not use the same standard for a man?
> 
> Of course it's silly, but that's my point. If feminazis want "equal rights" then those rights go both ways.



Because society is, in plenty of ways, ####ed up and the ONLY way we hold onto ANY sanity is by insisting. Men and women are DIFFERENT. VERY. That means some of the rules of civilized society can, and should, be different. I refuse to conduct myself exclusively as some group wants me to. 

Now, that is not to say that some of our ways shouldn't be adjusted. They should but, it's not going to turn out well if we, guys, want to be treated like women.


----------



## Ken King

Merlin99 said:


> I think I might want to get that part in writing. If she decides to report it later and it comes out, he may face charges of *accessory to rape after the fact* for not reporting it.


Accessory after the fact is with the intent to help or assist the person that committed the crime to avoid punishment.  Are you saying the E-6 knew who it was that allegedly committed the act (if there was an act)?


----------



## Ken King

MMDad said:


> E-5 tells E-6 in her own unit. She already reported it. The E-5 now has no say in the matter. The E-6 has no choice but to pass it up the chain.



The E-5 doesn't know what actually happened, so what is the E-6 to report?  Hey Chief (or Skipper) this E-5 went out got drunk, banged boots with some dude and doesn't know if she consented or not.


----------



## MMDad

Ken King said:


> The E-5 doesn't know what actually happened, so what is the E-6 to report?  Hey Chief (or Skipper) this E-5 went out got drunk, banged boots with some dude and doesn't know if she consented or not.





> I get a call at 0500 from a crying girl saying she got raped.



That's what she reported to the E-6, that's what the E-6 should report up the chain. If not, she can come back in the future and blame the E-6 for not doing anything. When the E-6 is questioned, they can say "but she asked me not to report it as a friend." Then they can explain why they feel that their friendship means that the rules no longer apply.

This is why they have fraternization rules - when the military lets friendship get in the way of following orders there's a problem.


----------



## Ken King

MMDad said:


> That's what she reported to the E-6, that's what the E-6 should report up the chain. If not, she can come back in the future and blame the E-6 for not doing anything. When the E-6 is questioned, they can say "but she asked me not to report it as a friend." Then they can explain why they feel that their friendship means that the rules no longer apply.
> 
> This is why they have fraternization rules - when the military lets friendship get in the way of following orders there's a problem.


As I read the OP she called and talked to her friend, not that she was reporting an incident to her superior.  If the E-6 was her immediate supervisor then I think his choices would be limited in what he should or should not do, but that wasn't stated.  He could report it up the chain if he desires and doing that could open a whole can of crap for the E-5 as to whether or not she is suitable for service (given her self-described alcohol abuse) or whether she should be allowed access to classified or sensitive material.


----------



## Merlin99

Ken King said:


> Accessory after the fact is with the intent to help or assist the person that committed the crime to avoid punishment.  Are you saying the E-6 knew who it was that allegedly committed the act (if there was an act)?


No, I'm saying that he knew that a "crime" had been committed and that by failing to report it, he was complicit with it. But at the same time I'm not saying that he's done anything wrong, but if her story were to change for any reason (pregnancy, a religious awakening, pissed off parents...), he may want to have something in writing exonerating himself.


----------



## Ken King

Merlin99 said:


> No, I'm saying that he knew that a "crime" had been committed and that by failing to report it, he was complicit with it. But at the same time I'm not saying that he's done anything wrong, but if her story were to change for any reason (pregnancy, a religious awakening, pissed off parents...), he may want to have something in writing exonerating himself.



How does he know a crime was committed when she doesn't know?


----------



## NTNG

MMDad, I agree 100%. The E-6 needs to report the incident. Let the CoC decide how to proceed. if the E-5 feels betrayed, and the friendship ends, so be it.


----------



## mAlice

It's a sad world we live in, when you can go out and get so drunk that you don't know you're name, make poor decisions, and become the victim.


----------



## kwillia

mAlice said:


> It's a sad world we live in, when you can go out and get so drunk that you don't know you're name, make poor decisions, and become the victim.


I agree. If we let women who get to drunk to remember if they consented to banging off the hook does that mean we let drivers who are too drunk to remember if they got behind the wheel off the hook? Do we let parents who are too drunk to remember to take care of the baby off the hook? Do we let drunks that are too drunk to remember if they really beat the crap out of their S/O off the hook?


----------



## MMDad

Ken King said:


> As I read the OP she called and talked to her friend, not that she was reporting an incident to her superior.  If the E-6 was her immediate supervisor then I think his choices would be limited in what he should or should not do, but that wasn't stated.  He could report it up the chain if he desires and doing that could open a whole can of crap for the E-5 as to whether or not she is suitable for service (given her self-described alcohol abuse) or whether she should be allowed access to classified or sensitive material.





> I know I'm obligated to report it, but at the same time it turned into a pretty large argument between us when I said I was going to. Of course she pulled the friend card and told me not to.



The E-6 knows they are supposed to report it. There is no doubt to them. The ONLY reason they are not reporting it is the "friend card."

The E-6 is not the fact finder. It doesn't matter what they think the repercussions might be. They should be an E-6 first and a friend second.

They said that the unit was only 10 people. An E-6 may not be the direct supervisor to the E-5, but in a unit that small there should definitely be no doubt who is senior. They have let friendship get in the way of the order that is a critical part of a military unit.


----------



## MMDad

​


Ken King said:


> How does he know a crime was committed when she doesn't know?





> we all know SHARP says that it's technically rape.



The E-6 knows.


----------



## kwillia

MMDad said:


> The E-6 knows they are supposed to report it. There is no doubt to them. The ONLY reason they are not reporting it is the "friend card."
> 
> The E-6 is not the fact finder. It doesn't matter what they think the repercussions might be. They should be an E-6 first and a friend second.
> 
> They said that the unit was only 10 people. An E-6 may not be the direct supervisor to the E-5, but in a unit that small there should definitely be no doubt who is senior. They have let friendship get in the way of the order that is a critical part of a military unit.


Your point regarding what is expected by way of reporting in the military is valid. In fact over the weekend I read an article where the commander who repeatedly commited sexual harrassment blamed his chiefs for not reporting him and letting it continue.


----------



## Ken King

MMDad said:


> The E-6 knows they are supposed to report it. There is no doubt to them. The ONLY reason they are not reporting it is the "friend card."
> 
> The E-6 is not the fact finder. It doesn't matter what they think the repercussions might be. They should be an E-6 first and a friend second.
> 
> They said that the unit was only 10 people. An E-6 may not be the direct supervisor to the E-5, but in a unit that small there should definitely be no doubt who is senior. They have let friendship get in the way of the order that is a critical part of a military unit.



Fine, report it then and destroy both their friendship and possibly her career.


----------



## Ken King

MMDad said:


> ​
> 
> 
> The E-6 knows.



Apparently not, as he told Monello and not his CO.


----------



## MMDad

Ken King said:


> Fine, report it then and destroy both their friendship and possibly her career.



Should friendship be a factor in deciding to follow orders? If her behavior destroys her career, why is the person reporting it the one who is ruining her career? Isn't that like blaming the cop for the DUI?

We are constantly being reminded that we have an obligation to report adverse information. Imagine when the E-5 becomes the next leaker and the E-6 gets to explain why they didn't report what they knew.


----------



## MMDad

Ken King said:


> Apparently not, as he told Monello and not his CO.



So when they said that they "know" it means they didn't really know? Read what is written, not what you think it means. They "know" it's rape. They "know" what their responsibility is. Not following through on what you "know" you are supposed to do does not mean that they don't know.


----------



## mAlice

I'm curious, and I'm sure this is an unknown, as there were only 2 people present when the 'incident' occurred.  What's the chance that the guy was as drunk as the girl?  Then, who's the victim?


----------



## MMDad

mAlice said:


> I'm curious, and I'm sure this is an unknown, as there were only 2 people present when the 'incident' occurred.  What's the chance that the guy was as drunk as the girl?  Then, who's the victim?



Agree 100%. Based on what was written, any blame goes both ways. I do not believe that the E-5 is a victim. But that in no way changes the fact that the E-6 knows what they are suppposed to do and they are not doing it.


----------



## GURPS

mAlice said:


> I'm curious, and I'm sure this is an unknown, as there were only 2 people present when the 'incident' occurred.  What's the chance that the guy was as drunk as the girl?  Then, who's the victim?





According to Campus Feminists - the Male


----------



## nutz

Monello said:


> I've been retired for a while.  I'm sure the rules for rape/sexual abuse reporting have been given in annual training.  I got this off of a military board.  I don't know any of the people involved in this.  I find this an interesting dilemma.  So what would you do?  Please state branch of service and LOS.



USAF 22.5 years

The E-6 is in a no-win situation and, most probably, doesn't know it. As a soldier (SHARP is an army acronym), he is accountable for his actions on and off duty. She relayed to him that she is the victim of a crime. He is obligated to report any and all crimes that he is aware of. If later on anything (std, pregnancy, etc.) comes of this incident and she relays his involvement, he will face punishment. Under Army reg. 600-20, he could report the incident to his chain or to the "victims advocacy" office. Since he probably has no clue who that is, he could drop back and punt. Call the chaplain and enlist their help. He has technically reported it and the chaplain's service is well versed on the rights and wrongs of these type of situations.

"Every Soldier who is aware of a sexual assault should immediately (within 24 hours) report incidents. Sexual assault is incompatible with Army values and is punishable under the UCMJand other Federal and local civilian laws" http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_20.pdf


----------



## nutz

Ken King said:


> Fine, report it then and destroy both their friendship and possibly her career.



Maybe, maybe not. "Most" people in this situation would have 0 clue what to do, especially not the E-6.  She has faced a traumatic event and most likely is not thinking the event through but is focusing on the guilt of being blamed or being labeled a "slut".


----------



## vraiblonde

nutz said:


> She has faced a traumatic event and most likely is not thinking the event through but is focusing on the guilt of being blamed or being labeled a "slut".



What "traumatic event"?  She got hammered and took a strange man home with her - how can that be anything other than her own fault?

We play so fast and loose with what we call "rape" these days that it does a disservice to women who are *really* raped, as in violently forced to have sex without their consent.  The woman in this story was not raped; she had a consensual sexual encounter that she later regretted, and that is not rape.


----------



## kwillia

vraiblonde said:


> What "traumatic event"?  She got hammered and took a strange man home with her - how can that be anything other than her own fault?
> 
> We play so fast and loose with what we call "rape" these days that it does a disservice to women who are *really* raped, as in violently forced to have sex without their consent.  The woman in this story was not raped; she had a consensual sexual encounter that she later regretted, and that is not rape.


I completely agree, but I do believe the twist here is the fact that she is military and that she confessed to her digression to a fellow military person. There is specific and direct protocol in the military regarding such an episode and as was pointed out it is expected to be reported because in the least her conduct needs to be addressed.


----------



## DoWhat

And if the girl gave the dude a BJ, she just broke the UCMJ.


----------



## SoMDGirl42

She doesn't want it reported because she wasn't "raped". She was wasted and had sex with a stranger and now has regret. That's not rape. She doesn't want all her buddies in your small "command" to know she's a skank who has one night stands, so she's playing the "rape" card. Now she gets sympathy instead of everyone telling her the truth, she's a skank and made a bad decision. Now she's the "victim". And that folks, is why women who truly get raped aren't believed!!!!!

But the way the military is set up, it sounds like you are her superior and she reported a "rape" to you and now it's your obligation to report the "rape" to your superiors. Hopefully in the end, she'll get in trouble for getting so wasted she took a stranger home and F*&C#% his brains out. Maybe she'll have to go to rehab for her "drinking problem" that she has. Maybe she'll lose a rank or two while she's getting sober. And hopefully the dude that "raped" her will turn it around and say he was so drunk she kidnapped him and held him agaist his will. 

and if every skank that got drunk and F*#$%D a stranger from the bar was able to yell "rape" the county would have to build a bigger jail to hold all the rapists.


----------



## mAlice

I hope that "victim" is reading this thread.  She needs to face the fact that she screwed up.  She needs to avoid destroying a life because she's not equipped to handle her mistakes.  She needs to get counseling, and she needs to understand what 'rape' is.


----------



## vraiblonde

Sounds like the woman understands that she wasn't actually raped, which is why she told the guy not to report it.  The letter writer is the one facing the dilemma.

I think he should take it for what it's worth, she wasn't raped and doesn't want it reported, and mind his own business.


----------



## Amused_despair

The E-6 has been made aware of a possible assault.  He has no choice and no leeway, he must report it.  It is not up to him to determine if the assualt happened or not and who is repsonsible.  If he is still sitting on this news 4 days later he is in danger of being placed on report himself.


----------



## acommondisaster

vraiblonde said:


> Sounds like the woman understands that she wasn't actually raped, which is why she told the guy not to report it.  The letter writer is the one facing the dilemma.
> 
> I think he should take it for what it's worth, she wasn't raped and doesn't want it reported, and mind his own business.



As hard as it may be to understand, rules of a civilian world don't apply. 

He has an obligation to report a possible assault. In a era where sexual assaults in the military - especially involving someone of a higher rank - are being scrutinized, he should be acutely aware of his duty to report. He should have insisted she go to the hospital immediately, rather than playing confidant/friend.


----------



## BOP

mAlice said:


> It's a sad world we live in, when you can go out and get so drunk that you don't know you're name, make poor decisions, and become the victim.



Misogynist.


----------



## BOP

GURPS said:


> According to Campus Feminists - the Female



According to feminists, the female is ALWAYS the victim and the male is always the perpetrator.


----------



## BOP

nutz said:


> Maybe, maybe not. "Most" people in this situation would have 0 clue what to do, especially not the E-6.  She has faced a traumatic event and most likely is not thinking the event through but is focusing on the guilt of being blamed or being labeled a "slut".



Negative.  Every. single. person. in the military, and every single person in the government (at least in the DoD) has taken at least one Prevention of Sexual Harassment (POSH) type course, no matter what branch they are affiliated with.  It's mandatory annual training.

There are 8.5 by 11 inch posters on every official bulletin board I've seen so far as a reminder to call the advocacy folks in just such an event as the OP describes.  Some of you folks need to go back and read jesj's post regarding this issue.  He or she is spot on.  Life is not like it used to be when most of us were in the military.

In theory, the E-6's quandary should be somewhat less difficult.  The systems in place allow any alleged victim to have an incident go on record, should there be any negative fallout from the alleged incident, without having it destroy anyone's career.  At least that's the theory, anyway.


----------



## Bann

Thinking on this longer, and never having been enlisted myself, I realize from reading the posts from those who know - if a military member is required to report incidents such as this - the E6 should report it.  I agree with that.  It's too bad a friendship could be ruined, but that is not the fault of the E6 for doing what is required under the UCMJ.  That is the fault of the E5, who, at her age and rank should know better than to 1) put herself in that position  in the first place, 2)blab to a superior in her command - friend or not.  

I also agree with those who say she got drunk, got loosey goosey and is now feeling ashamed and doesn't want to face any consequences of her behavior, so is trying to cry rape.  :shrug:


----------



## Dondi

20 years US Navy - Retired.

I'm surprised that the issue of fraternization hasn't come up. Not sure of other services, but if it were the Navy, it would be a Chief in bed with a Petty Officer 2nd Class. If she were to successfully ID the E7, he could be in deep just for that alone.


----------



## Merlin99

Dondi said:


> 20 years US Navy - Retired.
> 
> I'm surprised that the issue of fraternization hasn't come up. Not sure of other services, but if it were the Navy, it would be a Chief in bed with a Petty Officer 2nd Class. If she were to successfully ID the E7, he could be in deep just for that alone.


Since neither party knew each other ahead of time, he may not be aware of what her rank was. It could be that the only reason he's suspected of being an E7 is an anchor sticker on the back window.


----------



## nutz

vraiblonde said:


> What "traumatic event"?  She got hammered and took a strange man home with her - how can that be anything other than her own fault?
> 
> We play so fast and loose with what we call "rape" these days that it does a disservice to women who are *really* raped, as in violently forced to have sex without their consent.  The woman in this story was not raped; she had a consensual sexual encounter that she later regretted, and that is not rape.



I was taught that a girl waking up and realizing she is a drunken 'ho qualifies.


----------



## nutz

BOP said:


> Negative.  Every. single. person. in the military, and every single person in the government (at least in the DoD) has taken at least one Prevention of Sexual Harassment (POSH) type course, no matter what branch they are affiliated with.  It's mandatory annual training.
> 
> There are 8.5 by 11 inch posters on every official bulletin board I've seen so far as a reminder to call the advocacy folks in just such an event as the OP describes.  Some of you folks need to go back and read jesj's post regarding this issue.  He or she is spot on.  Life is not like it used to be when most of us were in the military.
> 
> In theory, the E-6's quandary should be somewhat less difficult.  The systems in place allow any alleged victim to have an incident go on record, should there be any negative fallout from the alleged incident, without having it destroy anyone's career.  At least that's the theory, anyway.



BS, mandatory training yes, but just because people show doesn't mean they heard or retained anything. Regardless of what you see in the movies and on TV, "most" 20 something leaders aren't equipped to handle everything they encounter. I certainly wasn't.


----------



## acommondisaster

nutz said:


> BS, mandatory training yes, but just because people show doesn't mean they heard or retained anything. Regardless of what you see in the movies and on TV, "most" 20 something leaders aren't equipped to handle everything they encounter. I certainly wasn't.



Which is why the requirement to report the incident is so clear and simple and leaves no room for interpretation.


----------



## PeoplesElbow

The training is so clear and thorough this last round even covered something called "Mushroom Stamping"


----------



## GW8345

Report the incident, period.

If the girl ever changes her mind and does report the incident; she will also report that she told the E-6 and his career will be over and will be just as guilty as the "rapist". 

She knows the procedures and requirements that must be followed when a sexual assault happens, if she didn't want them to be followed she shouldn't have been a "party girl". I'm not blaming the victim but she did put herself into the position she is in and should take some responsibility for the consequences of her actions. Also, I'm not sure a case of rape exists in this incident since both parties were drunk and the sexual contact was not forced and she has no recollection of refusing the sexual contact. An investigation will determine if a case a rape had occurred and appropriate action would be taken against the guilty party.

The incident should be reported, or the E-6 risks his career if the E-5 ever does report or the incident becomes known.


----------



## acommondisaster

If and when that female changes her mind, she won't think twice about her "friend" the E6's career. It'll be all about what's important to her at the time (again).


----------

