# For Redskins, same problem; RGIII...



## Larry Gude

...it was evident from year one that Robert is a stunning talent. It was also evident that he is a guy who is going to get hurt frequently and that his playing style, never say die, get everything out of a play you can, would only exacerbate the problem; getting hurt while scrambling. He needed to evolve into more of a drop back QB. It seems, by all reports, he still has not accepted that. 

In practice, when a D guy touches the QB, the play is considered dead in an effort to remove hits on the QB from the equation. RG is not complying, it seems. He has told coach Gruden he wants to run out plays, work on his scrambling after being touched, and, so far, Gruden, mistakenly, is agreeing. It seems the Skins D is doing a good job of getting to the QB but, that is not a good excuse because regardless of whether they are that good or the line is that bad, the Redskins WILL need to be able to deal with better teams that can get to QB's as a matter of course. 

And Robert, and his offense HAVE to be working on getting open sooner and getting rid of the ball sooner. Instead of treating him, properly, as a frail QB, and focusing on getting REAL sharp, a la Denver and New England, they are stuck in that Russel Wilson mode where they're going to rely on the QB to make plays with his legs. Wilson doesn't get hurt. Robert does. Period. 

So, with all this new talent at the skill positions, look for Kirk to have a great second half of the season.


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## Monello

Bob had a good first year because he was an unknown.  And when he was hurt Cousins filled in admirably.  Last year he struggled, just like I suspect he will struggle this year but I don't know how the new offense will look or function.

If Bob 3 does falter, it will vindicate Shanahan.

I  find it interesting that the DS era has been riddled with failure, even with the signing of many aging free agents.  JKC must have put a curse on the team once it changed owners.


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## Larry Gude

Monello said:


> ...Bob 3...



Love that one!!!


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## Beta

"Russell Wilson mode" -- so because they're both small black QBs you throw them in the same bucket?  Wilson makes most plays with his ARM.  He's not the same type of QB as RGIII.


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## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> "Russell Wilson mode" -- so because they're both small black QBs you throw them in the same bucket?  Wilson makes most plays with his ARM.  He's not the same type of QB as RGIII.



Russel Wilson mode; able to scramble and not get hurt. I only use him for reference because they are direct contemporaries. 

Call it Steve Young mode or Fran Tarkington mode. Or Roger Staubach or even Ben Roethlisburger. Bob 3 gets hurt. Those people didn't. At least not often.


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## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> Russel Wilson mode; able to scramble and not get hurt. I only use him for reference because they are direct contemporaries.
> 
> Call it Steve Young mode or Fran Tarkington mode. Or Roger Staubach or even Ben Roethlisburger. Bob 3 gets hurt. Those people didn't. At least not often.



I see.  RGIII is a superior scrambler to any of them.  The rest scramble and run if necessary, RGIII is an athlete.  And actually, Roethlisburger doesn't really scramble, he just dances in the pocket until someone is open and REFUSES to go down.  RGIII goes down when someone blows on him or looks at him funny.  

He's more like Vick or...sorry, no white QBs can compare to his athleticism.  Maybe like Tebow with the amount of running that occurs though?


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## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> I see.  RGIII is a superior scrambler to any of them.  The rest scramble and run if necessary, RGIII is an athlete.  And actually, Roethlisburger doesn't really scramble, he just dances in the pocket until someone is open and REFUSES to go down.  RGIII goes down when someone blows on him or looks at him funny.
> 
> He's more like Vick or...sorry, no white QBs can compare to his athleticism.  Maybe like Tebow with the amount of running that occurs though?




Bob 3 isn't superior to anyone when he is rehabbing his latest knee injury. 

Why do you keep bringing skin color into this???


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## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> Bob 3 isn't superior to anyone when he is rehabbing his latest knee injury.
> 
> Why do you keep bringing skin color into this???



The first time, because it seemed like the only reason you compared him to Wilson was because of race (since so many people do that).  When I realized you were just mischaracterizing his skills in general, your reasoning was ok.  The reason I brought it up to close my comment was because I wanted to make sure nobody said the same thing about me when I made a comparison to Vick.  It wouldn't be good to take a hack at you for comparing two guys because they're both black, then do the exact same thing in my next post.

And while he's rehabbing knee injuries, he's not a good QB in general.  Until he can run he should be on the bench.  It's only hurting his confidence.


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## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> The first time, because it seemed like the only reason you compared him to Wilson was because of race (since so many people do that).  When I realized you were just mischaracterizing his skills in general, your reasoning was ok.  The reason I brought it up to close my comment was because I wanted to make sure nobody said the same thing about me when I made a comparison to Vick.  It wouldn't be good to take a hack at you for comparing two guys because they're both black, then do the exact same thing in my next post.
> 
> And while he's rehabbing knee injuries, he's not a good QB in general.  Until he can run he should be on the bench.  It's only hurting his confidence.



Well, I'll leave the predisposition to you in terms of inferring race had ANYTHING to do with it. I considered using Rogers because he can run and doesn't get hurt but, he's also an outstanding QB. Wilson fit because they came from the same draft, both run really well and both are not accomplished QB's with the difference, my entire point, that Wilson is sturdier. I was gonna use Kapernick but, I hate spelling his name.  

And that's the scary thing about Wilson and Seattle; I think he's got real good upside to only get better in the pocket and still have that run threat WHILE avoiding injury. And, obviously, he's good enough to win it all now so, there is no pressure to get better as a qb right now like there is with RGIII. 

In any event, my point has nothing to do with race and everything to do with Bob 3 not progressing in the area he HAS to get better; getting plays off and avoiding scrambling while controlling his competitive streak that compels him to sacrifice his safety for a yard or two or some exciting scramble that is only going to net Kirk Cousins getting playing time. 

I was truly bummed to hear and read his, Bob3's, comments on this. He still doesn't get it and the new coach hasn't made him get it.


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## Monello

Larry Gude said:


> I was truly bummed to hear and read his, Bob3's, comments on this. He still doesn't get it and the new coach hasn't made him get it.



A lot of this goes to the heart of the problems last year.  You can''t tell a young guy he's the team's savior.  He had his all in for week 1 campaign with 1 of his sponsors.  He clearly wasn't ready to play and it hurt the entire team.  That put stress on his relationship with the coach.  He acted like a bratty kid that always gets his way.  Even Bruce Allen went on the record recently saying that last year they could have handled things differently.



> Redskins general manager Bruce Allen acknowledged that QB Robert Griffin III should not have opened the season as the starter a year ago because he did not have adequate practice time.



[video]http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11280471[/video]

So in looking back the organization realizes that they didn't handle the matter in a way that best benefited the team.  You can't let 1 player run the team unless they are a sure HOFer stud with years of experience.  

This should be an interesting year for Washington.  They will be better than 3-13 but probably no better than 8-8.  0-6 in the division in intolerable, that has to improve.  The schedule strength helps out a first year coach.


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## Larry Gude

So, it continues tonight with the Browns; Robert can not help himself. He gets BLASTED on one play trying to get a meaningless extra yard instead of getting out of bounds. He goes down awkwardly on another and seems to slide fine on yet another and gets up limping. He's got heart but, he can't help himself and he is gonna get hurt and be out again. Amazing. 

One the plus side, his arm looks pretty sharp. Looked fairly quick making a decision. 

Another plus, the O line and Morris seem like they're going to still be able to run the ball. The Shanahan zone blocking thing where he can get 5 guys off a beer truck and a 6th round pick a 1,000 yard season, it leaves you wondering how the running game would be absent the zone scheme. However, as evidenced by the goal line stand, they're not going to be blowing up good lines in short yardage. Nice to see Gruden go for it so they can see where they are. Browns D line is no joke.


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## itsbob

Beta said:


> "Russell Wilson mode" -- so because they're both small black QBs you throw them in the same bucket?  Wilson makes most plays with his ARM.  He's not the same type of QB as RGIII.



I'm not a big enough football fan to know Wilson is black.. but I got the gist of what he is saying..

You need to pull up your line, I think something took your bait..


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## PeoplesElbow

To quote sports center about last nights Skins/Ravens game "One team played well, the other was the Redskins".


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## Larry Gude

So now Theisman is commenting RGIII may not be the best QB for the team and that Cousins is doing better in practice AND the Ram's lost their starter for the season which has lead to speculation of the Washington football team trading and my first thought was "we can't get much for Robert..." 

Of course, the story was about trading Cousins but, also, because starters get injured, you don't trade a good back up. In any event, in my minds eye, it's just a sad recognition of what a best he, Robert, is; 3 #1 picks and, right now, could we even get 1 for him? Not his fault. Just a poor idea to begin with.


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## GregV814

attica!!  attica!!!  ferguson!! ferguson!!  watts is burning.....watts is burning.....

Its because the "team from Washington" is racist!!!


Hey, somebody had to say it....LOL


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## Beta

PeoplesElbow said:


> To quote sports center about last nights Skins/Ravens game "One team played well, the other was the Redskins".



It's the preseason!  Since 2005, the Colts have 9 preseason wins and 8 playoff appearances.  The Lions went 4-0 in 2008's preseason and 0-16 in the regular season.  

Wait a few weeks before you start to panic.  ESPN just needs something to talk about because the more people who tune in during the PRESEASON, the better their ratings and ad dollars.



Larry Gude said:


> So now Theisman is commenting RGIII may not be the best QB for the team and that Cousins is doing better in practice AND the Ram's lost their starter for the season which has lead to speculation of the Washington football team trading and my first thought was "we can't get much for Robert..."
> 
> Of course, the story was about trading Cousins but, also, because starters get injured, you don't trade a good back up. In any event, in my minds eye, it's just a sad recognition of what a best he, Robert, is; 3 #1 picks and, right now, could we even get 1 for him? Not his fault. Just a poor idea to begin with.



To quote Allen Iverson:  "We Talkin Bout PRACTICE!"   There are plenty of guys that practice OK but ball in games, and vice versa.  Some guys are just gamers.  It happens all the time.  I wouldn't put too much stock into Cousins practicing better until the games show RGIII can't hack it.  But maybe RGIII still needs time to recover from his injury?  I don't really know.

RGIII started looking much better than Wilson and was equal to Luck after year 1, then was hobbled last season.  Give him a little time.  Granted, I don't think any player is worth 3 #1s unless they turn out to be a top 10 QB (because that means years of playoffs), but if you think you can get a top 10 QB you do anything you can to get him.  I would be surprised if the Skins trade Cousins.  Like you said, you don't trade a solid #2 QB, especially if you don't have a really good back-up (#3).  RGIII is injury prone at this point in time so you need a backup.


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## Monello

PeoplesElbow said:


> To quote sports center about last nights Skins/Ravens game "One team played well, the other was the Redskins".



Racist!


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## Monello

2014 season, 8-8 at best


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## Grumpy

Irritation....

So tired of hearing what the skins did to get RGIII..its done, its past, fogettaboutit. You don't(or shouldn't) stay the starter because of what you cost.

RGIII and his FATHER want him to be a drop back passer...Well, he hasn't proven he can be effective that way and daddy should shut up.

RGIII should stay off social media...tired of his talking a good game, he's beginning to sound like the idiot that is supposedly leading this country. Lead on the field, not on your keyboard

Tired of hearing that all is right in Redskinland now that the Shanahan cabal has been run out of town, dysfunction will still be the norm as long as Snyder is still around. 

I am so close to being done with pro sports, the media has jumped the shark with their dissection of everything said/written.


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## Larry Gude

Monello said:


> 2014 season, 8-8 at best



I dunno. I think the D is really improved and that plus even half decent special teams makes pretty much anyone 8-8.  

I'm down on Bob3 (love that!) but, as you mentioned, they can run it and if he can get a rhythm going with those receivers, this team has the talent to score. 

If they can be a 17 point defense and not give up big plays on punts and kickoffs, I think they can score 21 against better teams. 

I'd like to think 8-8 is reasonable.


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## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> I dunno. I think the D is really improved and that plus even half decent special teams makes pretty much anyone 8-8.
> 
> I'm down on Bob3 (love that!) but, as you mentioned, they can run it and if he can get a rhythm going with those receivers, this team has the talent to score.
> 
> If they can be a 17 point defense and not give up big plays on punts and kickoffs, I think they can score 21 against better teams.
> 
> I'd like to think 8-8 is reasonable.



Larry....

The average team gave up 24 points/game last season.  17/game would have been 3rd best in the NFL last season, tied with the 49ers.  The Skins defense isn't as good as the 49ers.  How much has that defense REALLY improved?  It was 30th (2 points from worst) in the league in points given up last season at nearly 30/game.  That takes a significant amount of improvement.  I think the defense could be middle of the road, but asking for much more than that isn't reasonable.

As for offense, 21/game averages 336 points.  The Skins scored 334 last season.  If RGIII improves his health, that number should go up.  If there's a league average defense behind him and he does well, like he did in 2012, then the Skins could win 10 games.  The Skins were the #4 offense in his rookie season, averaging over 27/game.  They game up just over 24/game that season, so realistically if they can improve to league average and RGIII gets back to where he was his rookie season, you're back to 10 wins.  

Scoring 21 points doesn't win many games, so don't hang your hat on that.  I've watched too many seasons where teams with top 10 defenses and top 15 special teams end up with between 5-7 wins because their offense can't move the ball.  But it certainly is possible to get 8 wins with a team like that -- just not likely.


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## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> Larry....
> 
> The average team gave up 24 points/game last season.  17/game would have been 3rd best in the NFL last season, tied with the 49ers.  The Skins defense isn't as good as the 49ers.  How much has that defense REALLY improved?  It was 30th (2 points from worst) in the league in points given up last season at nearly 30/game.  That takes a significant amount of improvement.  I think the defense could be middle of the road, but asking for much more than that isn't reasonable. .



I should have looked it up. I thought, wrongly, that 21 or so was average and would argue they have the makings of an above average D. 

So, would you think they might be a 21 point D?


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## Monello

Improved special teams will help in not giving the opposing team great field position all the time.  That should help the D keep the average score down.  

If Morris can get 4+ per carry then you face more short yardage 3rd downs.  It's easier to complete a 5 yard pass than it is a 15 yard pass.

The new bump rules will create a lot of defensive penalties but that can easily affect both teams.

2014 won't be DC's year to make a huge splash in the NFL.


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## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> I should have looked it up. I thought, wrongly, that 21 or so was average and would argue they have the makings of an above average D.
> 
> So, would you think they might be a 21 point D?



Good question.  21/game is a top 10 defense.  I'm not sure if the Skins have it in them.  As far as acquisitions go, Hatcher had a solid year last year, but it was just 1 season...can he do it again?  He's 32 so it doesn't seem like his career is on the upswing.  Clark is a good acquisition, but he's 34 and might slow down.  Sharpton might be an up & comer but I'm not even sure if he's starting.  Middle of the road is very reasonable, but I don't know about top 10.


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## PeoplesElbow

I think a fact that gets overlooked a lot is a defense that is on the field a lot due to offensive incompetence gets scored on more than one who has an offense that holds the ball for 10 minutes at a time.   

A lot of college teams that get accused of having a poor defense actually just have an offense that scores too fast,  when the offensive drive only takes 2 minutes the D never gets to rest.


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## kom526

After watching the pre season games this year 8-8 would be nothing short of miraculous. Piss poor decision making on the part of #10, just throw the damned ball away and stop telegraphing the pass. I hate to think of myself being on the "Blame the owner" bus but Dan Snyder really has to let his coaching staff make what they think is the best decision for the team and rumor (ESPN, DeadSpin) both say that there may be a #10 sighting in Thursday night's game vs. TB. One more chance to Bradford a knee.


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## Larry Gude

PeoplesElbow said:


> I think a fact that gets overlooked a lot is a defense that is on the field a lot due to offensive incompetence gets scored on more than one who has an offense that holds the ball for 10 minutes at a time.
> 
> A lot of college teams that get accused of having a poor defense actually just have an offense that scores too fast,  when the offensive drive only takes 2 minutes the D never gets to rest.



That is something the Eagles will have to figure out, for sure.


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## PeoplesElbow

Larry Gude said:


> That is something the Eagles will have to figure out, for sure.



These offenses are very fun to watch but the wheels totally fall off the bus once they fail to score in more than one drive.  Coaches always fall into one or the other category,  I want to see someone who runs a game with an air raid style offense mixed in with some Power I running for an entire series or two.  I think this would tire out a defense more than the either or approach.


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## Monello

If the defense is getting tired then the opposing team's offense is also getting tired.  I never bought that argument.  Players want to play.  Football is very emotional.  These athletes are in top condition.  A good defense will cause a lot of 3 and outs.  If the D is getting tired then they don't have the correct players on the field.


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## PeoplesElbow

Monello said:


> If the defense is getting tired then the opposing team's offense is also getting tired.  I never bought that argument.  Players want to play.  Football is very emotional.  These athletes are in top condition.  A good defense will cause a lot of 3 and outs.  If the D is getting tired then they don't have the correct players on the field.



I am of the school that believes that defense requires more energy than offense.  The reason being that you are not doing your thing you are reacting to someone else doing their thing.  Its like driving to the basket in basketball vs trying to guard someone doing the same,  it takes more work.


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## Larry Gude

PeoplesElbow said:


> I am of the school that believes that defense requires more energy than offense.  The reason being that you are not doing your thing you are reacting to someone else doing their thing.  Its like driving to the basket in basketball vs trying to guard someone doing the same,  it takes more work.



That is the Joe Gibbs School of Tear Your Heart Out. 

It is why, in war, your seize the initiative and you try to never let it go.


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## Hank

I am setting the over/under at 5 games before RG3 is handing out Gatorade on the sidelines.


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## Larry Gude

Hank said:


> I am setting the over/under at 5 games before RG3 is handing out Gatorade on the sidelines.



I got the under.


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## Monello

PeoplesElbow said:


> I am of the school that believes that defense requires more energy than offense.  The reason being that you are not doing your thing you are reacting to someone else doing their thing.  Its like driving to the basket in basketball vs trying to guard someone doing the same,  it takes more work.



The same amount of energy is expended per play.  It may vary by position but the duration of the play is equal for both sides.  Now a well conditioned team could run a poorly conditioned team into the ground.  The well conditioned players would have the advantage on both offense and defense.


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## PeoplesElbow

Monello said:


> The same amount of energy is expended per play.  It may vary by position but the duration of the play is equal for both sides.  Now a well conditioned team could run a poorly conditioned team into the ground.  The well conditioned players would have the advantage on both offense and defense.



It may have been more or less equal back in the 70's and even 80's but since all of the rules that favor the offense the defense has to work that much harder to accompolish the same thing.


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## Beta

JFC, you'd think RGIII was the devil and Cousins was the savior by reading this thread.  Do any of you have a memory?  Maybe it's selective.  Allow me to help.

In 2012, your beloved Skins went 10-6 when RGIII was healthy, won their division, and had a top 5 offense.  His QB rating for the season was 102.4.
In 2013, RGIII was hurt and the offense suffered.  His QB rating for the season was 82.2.  The Skins went 3-10 when he started.

In 2012, Cousins rode the bench.  In his brief appearances, he did relatively well, with a 101.6 rating (3 INTs in 48 attempts, 2 short of RGIII with ~350 fewer attempts).
In 2013, Cousins started 3 games and the Skins went 0-3.  His rating was an abysmal 58.4 and he threw 7 INTs (5 short of RGIII with 300 fewer attempts).

So what you're all clamoring for is a backup who has never outperformed RGIII in the regular season, doesn't offer any dual threat capability, and is quite literally an INT-machine?

You're all ####ing nuts.  This is blatant "the grass is always greener" bull####.  Be happy you have a QB that did a great job in 2012 that, should he get healthy again, gives you a chance to be competitive in the East.  It's pretty apparent Cousins hasn't outperformed him in REAL gameday situations yet.  Maybe he should try to get a WIN first and stop giving the other team the ball.


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## Hank

Beta said:


> JFC, you'd think RGIII was the devil and Cousins was the savior by reading this thread.  Do any of you have a memory?  Maybe it's selective.  Allow me to help.
> 
> In 2012, your beloved Skins went 10-6 when RGIII was healthy, won their division, and had a top 5 offense.  His QB rating for the season was 102.4.
> In 2013, RGIII was hurt and the offense suffered.  His QB rating for the season was 82.2.  The Skins went 3-10 when he started.
> 
> In 2012, Cousins rode the bench.  In his brief appearances, he did relatively well, with a 101.6 rating (3 INTs in 48 attempts, 2 short of RGIII with ~350 fewer attempts).
> In 2013, Cousins started 3 games and the Skins went 0-3.  His rating was an abysmal 58.4 and he threw 7 INTs (5 short of RGIII with 300 fewer attempts).
> 
> So what you're all clamoring for is a backup who has never outperformed RGIII in the regular season, doesn't offer any dual threat capability, and is quite literally an INT-machine?
> 
> You're all ####ing nuts.  This is blatant "the grass is always greener" bull####.  Be happy you have a QB that did a great job in 2012 that, should he get healthy again, gives you a chance to be competitive in the East.  It's pretty apparent Cousins hasn't outperformed him in REAL gameday situations yet.  Maybe he should try to get a WIN first and stop giving the other team the ball.



So, you have the over.


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## Grumpy

Beta said:


> So what you're all clamoring for is a backup who has never outperformed RGIII in the regular season, *doesn't offer any dual threat capability*, and is quite literally an INT-machine?



RGIII wants to be a pocket passer (his daddy said)..and if he wants to be a dual threat, how soon before one of his legs get ripped off?? RGIII can only be effective being what he is, and for what he is, his body won't hold up. He is a joy to watch and devastating to defenses, when healthy. He's welcome to prove me wrong, but he will not make it being a pocket qb. He will be no different than Heath Shuler, healthwise, an injury will end his career this year or next. My vote is to get out of the RGIII biz now, trade him.

As for Cousins' 3 games last year..with a team and managerment that was mailing it in?? Shirley you jest.


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## PeoplesElbow

Beta said:


> JFC, you'd think RGIII was the devil and Cousins was the savior by reading this thread.  Do any of you have a memory?  Maybe it's selective.  Allow me to help.
> 
> In 2012, your beloved Skins went 10-6 when RGIII was healthy, won their division, and had a top 5 offense.  His QB rating for the season was 102.4.
> In 2013, RGIII was hurt and the offense suffered.  His QB rating for the season was 82.2.  The Skins went 3-10 when he started.
> 
> In 2012, Cousins rode the bench.  In his brief appearances, he did relatively well, with a 101.6 rating (3 INTs in 48 attempts, 2 short of RGIII with ~350 fewer attempts).
> In 2013, Cousins started 3 games and the Skins went 0-3.  His rating was an abysmal 58.4 and he threw 7 INTs (5 short of RGIII with 300 fewer attempts).
> 
> So what you're all clamoring for is a backup who has never outperformed RGIII in the regular season, doesn't offer any dual threat capability, and is quite literally an INT-machine?
> 
> You're all ####ing nuts.  This is blatant "the grass is always greener" bull####.  Be happy you have a QB that did a great job in 2012 that, should he get healthy again, gives you a chance to be competitive in the East.  It's pretty apparent Cousins hasn't outperformed him in REAL gameday situations yet.  Maybe he should try to get a WIN first and stop giving the other team the ball.



I think it has more to do with the game plan associated with each.  The pocket passer plan is proven in the NFL,  the dual thread QB has time and time again proven to be nothing but a way to have to replace your starting QB halfway through the season.  How often was McNabb and Cunningham hurt?  Name me one running QB that has been durable.

If any team wants to follow that model then they need to build their backup plans with similar QB's.  the Redskins should have traded Cousins picked up another running QB for 2nd string and possibly held onto Pat White for 3rd string.


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## Larry Gude

Hank said:


> So, you have the over.


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## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> You're all ####ing nuts.  This is blatant "the grass is always greener" bull####.  Be happy you have a QB that did a great job in 2012 that, should he get healthy again, gives you a chance to be competitive in the East.  It's pretty apparent Cousins hasn't outperformed him in REAL gameday situations yet.  Maybe he should try to get a WIN first and stop giving the other team the ball.



Let's get this straight; The RGIII era in DC is over. The only question is how long before the team acknowledges it and moves on to the next blunder. 

His 2012 season had 3 things going for it; he was healthy, the read/option was a gimmick and the rest of the team was behind him in all the excitement. 

In the mean time, Mike Shanahan single handedly destroyed this kids career by leaving him in the Seattle game. What else is the head coach there for if NOT to know, by experience, when to pull a kid and say 'Good job. I can't let you get hurt any more'???  

In the mean time, NFL defenses took all of ONE off season to go back and look at everyone's senior year and remind them how to play the option. The gimmick is OVER. Kapernick. Wilson, Griffin, it has run it's very short course. 

That one year gave Robert ENORMOUS room, and VERY open receivers so his marginal accuracy wasn't tested. Now, it is. He does not throw a good cross. He does not throw a good out. He does not throw an accurate bomb by top NFL standards. His motion is ALL over the place. Picture Brees, Peyton, Brady, hell, Andy Dalton, they ALL have polished motions that repeat. THAT is where accuracy starts. We can all see Elway, Marino, Montana, accuracy is about repetition, mechanics, motion. RGIII's footwork is AWFUL. He reads slow. 

And, I'm sorry. After all the crap with the last coaches, the owners pet, all that, the team is not behind him like they were. And the team is very much changing. Fletcher is gone. The new 'leader' on the D, is D Hall. That's like having an arsonist on the fire department. 

And worst of all, Robert pleaded with and got the new head coach to let him ignore the 'your down' rules in training camp, allowing him to run out plays and improvise as though he was still at Baylor and was the fastest guy on the field, by far. We've already seen the results; he's been POUNDED, several times. For NOTHING. His vaunted athleticism doesn't seem to include the basic skill that even gangly Tom Brady can handle; sliding. 

The kid's confidence is not there. He's trying to make it happen, like he did in '12 but, that horse has left the barn. Just think of the pressure on him, 3 #1 picks. All this praise and hope. A season ending injury is virtually guaranteed. And, even if he doesn't run into train wrecks he's not comfortable in the pocket so, that's marginal, at best. 

I feel bad for him. I really do. He never had the goods to start as a rookie. And now, what is he? Name one team of the following he'd start for: Philly, Dallas, NY Giants? Nope. 

New England or Miami? Nope. Maybe the Jets or Bills. 

Denver or SD or KC? Nope. Maybe the Raiders.

Indy? No. Jags, Texans, Titans? Maybe. 

Pittsburgh, B'more or Cinncy? No. Cleveland? Sure. 

San Fran, Seattle, Rams, no. Cards? OK. 

Bucs? OK. Panthers, Saints? Nope. Falcons? Nope.

Packers, Bears, Lions? No. Vikes? OK. 

7 teams. None in his own division. Maybe two in his conference. 

Robert has had the full healthy off season. In a system, supposedly, tailor made for his skill set and what he wants to do. Has he looked sharp, at all? Remember that week they practiced with the Pats? Everyone wrote the same stuff; it was good for the Skins to see just how far they have to go to even be in the conversation. 

Heck, even the radio is trying to make excuses, that they don't want to show anything to Houston and he'll come out running and gunning. Well, the good teams are on display every week, all season, year, after year after year. Unless it is a gimmick, there are no surprises in the NFL and gimmicks don't win. Execution wins. Making plays wins. Brady does the same crap over and over and over. They just do it very well. Same with the Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, 49'ers, Giants. 

There is hope. There is the dream that he'll get it going, that the line will settle, that the #10 Cancer, who got CUT, won't be a distraction, that a shaky secondary will be OK with a GREAT pass rush, that the running game and decent special teams will keep them in every game. 

And then, it's up to Robert to execute. And not get snapped in half. 

I HOPE I am wrong.    Way wrong.


----------



## PeoplesElbow

I think the worst thing that could ever happen to RG3 happened in 2012,  instant success.  He went from a respectful rookie wanting to learn, to do the best job he could do etc to an arrogant 2nd year QB that still had a lot of improving to do but instead seemed to focus on fame and getting his way above everything else.  His best hope for an NFL career moving on is to ask to be converted to a receiver and the field goal holder.   

I think Tim Tebow would have more continued success than RG3 and you know how that turned out.


----------



## Grumpy

Larry Gude said:


> I HOPE I am wrong.    Way wrong.



 Hater !


----------



## Beta

Grumpy said:


> RGIII wants to be a pocket passer (his daddy said)..and if he wants to be a dual threat, how soon before one of his legs get ripped off?? RGIII can only be effective being what he is, and for what he is, his body won't hold up. He is a joy to watch and devastating to defenses, when healthy. He's welcome to prove me wrong, but he will not make it being a pocket qb. He will be no different than Heath Shuler, healthwise, an injury will end his career this year or next. My vote is to get out of the RGIII biz now, trade him.
> 
> As for Cousins' 3 games last year..with a team and managerment that was mailing it in?? Shirley you jest.


There's a fatal flaw in your understanding of "dual threat" -- you can be a pocket passer and still be mobile.  My point is that one guy can run and the other can't.  The threat of running is a nice addition.  Even if he's mostly a pocket passer (like Russell Wilson, who Larry likes to compare to RGIII), that doesn't mean he can't get some yards with his legs when plays break down.  Cousins can't do that, and I'm not sure the Skins OL is good enough for a pure pocket passer.

But if he only runs ~5 times a game instead of 15-20, and he learns how to slide, there's no reason why his body can't hold up.  I don't disagree it puts him at more risk, and it will make him a little more prone to taking hits, but if you work with a moving pocket then it also has the possibility to reduce sacks that would otherwise occur.  That could balance out.

I don't care what "team management" was doing when Cousins started.  He was horrible.  For as much as you bash on RGIII's season, why did Cousins have so many INTs?  It's not like team management hadn't already "mailed it in" when the Skins were 3-6.



PeoplesElbow said:


> I think it has more to do with the game plan associated with each.  The pocket passer plan is proven in the NFL,  the dual thread QB has time and time again proven to be nothing but a way to have to replace your starting QB halfway through the season.  How often was McNabb and Cunningham hurt?  Name me one running QB that has been durable.
> 
> If any team wants to follow that model then they need to build their backup plans with similar QB's.  the Redskins should have traded Cousins picked up another running QB for 2nd string and possibly held onto Pat White for 3rd string.





Dual threat QBs can do just fine in the NFL.  Wilson is a dual threat and won the Super Bowl.  Cam Newton has done well for 4 years.  Colin Kaepernick took the 49ers to the NFC Title game in back to back seasons.  Have you heard that Hall of Famer named Steve Young?  Dual threat means you can physically run and occasionally use that to your advantage.  It doesn't always mean the run/option game.  It has worked in the NFL, but obviously the more you run, the higher likelihood of injuries.  Then again, plenty of sitting duck pocket passers have been hurt and missed a season (Brady, Manning, Brees, Cutler, Bradford, etc), so it's not like it only happens to the guys with wheels.


----------



## Grumpy

Beta said:


> Even if he's mostly a pocket passer (like Russell Wilson, who Larry likes to compare to RGIII),



The difference is that Wilson/Newton/Kaepernick have football bodies, RGIII doesn't. I know I come off as a hater, I've said since day one that he would be broken in half in the NFL. I would happy as hell to have him prove me wrong. Mark my words, in 2 years, RGIII will be a distant memory.


----------



## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> Let's get this straight; The RGIII era in DC is over. The only question is how long before the team acknowledges it and moves on to the next blunder.




I disagree with a lot of what you say, but I will agree with one thing: if the scheme isn't made for him, then it won't work out.  If he's being asked to do things that don't fit his strengths, then the coaching staff is at fault.  You can't ask Peyton Manning to run QB option and you can't ask RGIII to run a precision passing scheme (yet).



Larry Gude said:


> His 2012 season had 3 things going for it; he was healthy, the read/option was a gimmick and the rest of the team was behind him in all the excitement.
> 
> In the mean time, Mike Shanahan single handedly destroyed this kids career by leaving him in the Seattle game. What else is the head coach there for if NOT to know, by experience, when to pull a kid and say 'Good job. I can't let you get hurt any more'???
> 
> In the mean time, NFL defenses took all of ONE off season to go back and look at everyone's senior year and remind them how to play the option. The gimmick is OVER. Kapernick. Wilson, Griffin, it has run it's very short course.


The read/option is still working just fine.  It will be forced to evolve, but that doesn't mean it won't work.  That's not the only thing RGIII can do, though.

And you're saying it's OVER?  Are you high?  Seriously Larry, do you watch the NFL?  Wilson just won the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick was the challenger in the NFC title game.  Newton's team was 12-4.  3 of the top 5 NFL teams (12-13 wins) had a dual threat QB, the other two teams having Manning and Brady as their QBs.




Larry Gude said:


> That one year gave Robert ENORMOUS room, and VERY open receivers so his marginal accuracy wasn't tested. Now, it is. He does not throw a good cross. He does not throw a good out. He does not throw an accurate bomb by top NFL standards. His motion is ALL over the place. Picture Brees, Peyton, Brady, hell, Andy Dalton, they ALL have polished motions that repeat. THAT is where accuracy starts. We can all see Elway, Marino, Montana, accuracy is about repetition, mechanics, motion. RGIII's footwork is AWFUL. He reads slow.


That's called offensive scheme.  The Eagles and Dolphins run something like this.  It worked great for the Eagles last year and the results look promising for Miami this year.  Clearly it worked for the Skins in 2012.  Why not run a scheme that fits your QB?




Larry Gude said:


> And, I'm sorry. After all the crap with the last coaches, the owners pet, all that, the team is not behind him like they were. And the team is very much changing. Fletcher is gone. The new 'leader' on the D, is D Hall. That's like having an arsonist on the fire department.
> 
> And worst of all, Robert pleaded with and got the new head coach to let him ignore the 'your down' rules in training camp, allowing him to run out plays and improvise as though he was still at Baylor and was the fastest guy on the field, by far. We've already seen the results; he's been POUNDED, several times. For NOTHING. His vaunted athleticism doesn't seem to include the basic skill that even gangly Tom Brady can handle; sliding.
> 
> The kid's confidence is not there. He's trying to make it happen, like he did in '12 but, that horse has left the barn. Just think of the pressure on him, 3 #1 picks. All this praise and hope. A season ending injury is virtually guaranteed. And, even if he doesn't run into train wrecks he's not comfortable in the pocket so, that's marginal, at best.


All valid reasons he could be done for.  The team is looking for someone who can win, but it's not like they forgot 2012 and are willing to throw their eggs in the Cousins' basket.  They'll pull for anyone who leads them to wins.  But he needs to play smarter and not piss people off.



Larry Gude said:


> I feel bad for him. I really do. He never had the goods to start as a rookie. And now, what is he? Name one team of the following he'd start for:
> 
> Philly, Dallas, NY Giants? Nope.
> 
> 
> New England or Miami? Nope. Maybe the Jets or Bills.
> 
> Denver or SD or KC? Nope. Maybe the Raiders.
> 
> Indy? No. Jags, Texans, Titans? Maybe.
> 
> Pittsburgh, B'more or Cinncy? No. Cleveland? Sure.
> 
> San Fran, Seattle, Rams, no. Cards? OK.
> 
> Bucs? OK. Panthers, Saints? Nope. Falcons? Nope.
> 
> Packers, Bears, Lions? No. Vikes? OK.
> 
> 7 teams. None in his own division. Maybe two in his conference.


He may not start for the Giants, but Eli has been terrible.  He was worse than RGIII last year.  Manning bought himself time, just like RGIII did.
He'd probably start for the Bills and Jets, and he has been similar to Tannehill so far, so that's a toss-up
He'd start for the Raiders.
He'd probably start for the Jags, Texans, or Titans.  Jags are grooming a similar QB (Bortles) but are starting a crappy one (Henne) and the Titans have a similar QB (Locker) who doesn't have the success RGIII did.  Texans are starting Ryan Freaking Fitzpatrick.
He'd probably start for Cleveland (if their current starter didn't work out), but their backup (Manziel) is very similar.
He might start for the Cards, but Palmer is OK.  And the Rams have Bradford, who RGIII has outperformed.
He'd probably start for the Bucs and Vikings.

So let's see...Washington's starting QB could potentially start for nearly HALF THE LEAGUE!  What, around 12 teams?  Oh wahh what a bad QB.



Larry Gude said:


> Robert has had the full healthy off season. In a system, supposedly, tailor made for his skill set and what he wants to do. Has he looked sharp, at all? Remember that week they practiced with the Pats? Everyone wrote the same stuff; it was good for the Skins to see just how far they have to go to even be in the conversation.
> 
> Heck, even the radio is trying to make excuses, that they don't want to show anything to Houston and he'll come out running and gunning. Well, the good teams are on display every week, all season, year, after year after year. Unless it is a gimmick, there are no surprises in the NFL and gimmicks don't win. Execution wins. Making plays wins. Brady does the same crap over and over and over. They just do it very well. Same with the Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks, 49'ers, Giants.
> 
> There is hope. There is the dream that he'll get it going, that the line will settle, that the #10 Cancer, who got CUT, won't be a distraction, that a shaky secondary will be OK with a GREAT pass rush, that the running game and decent special teams will keep them in every game.
> 
> And then, it's up to Robert to execute. And not get snapped in half.
> 
> I HOPE I am wrong.    Way wrong.



If it's tailored to him, and you're saying he's an inaccurate QB being forced to make accurate passes, then it's clearly not tailored to him.  So either the coaches don't understand him as a QB and he's a fish out of water, or you're not understanding the offense and giving me a bad analysis to work with.  

The preseason is the preseason.  I don't know why fans can't comprehend this.  Look at the standings.  The Giants are 4-0, the Vikings are 3-0, the Colts are 0-3, etc.  Like I said before, the Colts have won 9 preseason games since 2005 and have been to the playoffs 8 times.  The Lions were 4-0 in the 2008 preseason before going 0-16.  The preseason means nothing.  It's possible RGIII is still hobbled and needs more recovery time.  It's possible that they're trying to keep him fresh for the regular season.  It's possible they're saving some more "dangerous" plays that exploit his skill-set for the regular season.  It's possible they're working on his weaknesses that you're pointing out, namely accuracy, and want him to practice that extra during the preseason.  The preseason is a time for *experimentation* and every team does it to varying levels.  You're not going to see the Patriots experiment as much in the preseason because they've been at it for 15 years now.  But when there's a new coach in town, or when a season didn't go well, you're usually going to see more experimentation and more hiding of plays.

All that being said, it's very possible the Skins suck and RGIII is done for.  All I'm saying is that TO THIS POINT I've seen RGIII outperform Cousins when healthy, Cousins is playing better in the preseason because he's playing against the 2nd string, RGIII's full game isn't something that translates well to practice (with the red shirt, probably why he wants to "play it out" when the coaches tell him not to, because it's the only way for him to practice his game), and it's important to see the season start, in a new scheme, before passing judgment.  After 3-4 weeks we'll have a better idea.



edit: by the way, that was an awesome, thorough post...even if I disagree with it


----------



## Beta

Grumpy said:


> The difference is that Wilson/Newton/Kaepernick have football bodies, RGIII doesn't. I know I come off as a hater, I've said since day one that he would be broken in half in the NFL. I would happy as hell to have him prove me wrong. Mark my words, in 2 years, RGIII will be a distant memory.




How is 5'11/206 (smaller) or 6'4/230 (lankier) more of a football body than 6'2/222?  

No qualms with Newton, he's 6'5/245


----------



## PeoplesElbow

Beta said:


> Dual threat QBs can do just fine in the NFL.  Wilson is a dual threat and won the Super Bowl.  Cam Newton has done well for 4 years.  Colin Kaepernick took the 49ers to the NFC Title game in back to back seasons.  Have you heard that Hall of Famer named Steve Young?  Dual threat means you can physically run and occasionally use that to your advantage.  It doesn't always mean the run/option game.  It has worked in the NFL, but obviously the more you run, the higher likelihood of injuries.  Then again, plenty of sitting duck pocket passers have been hurt and missed a season (Brady, Manning, Brees, Cutler, Bradford, etc), so it's not like it only happens to the guys with wheels.



For a fair comparison you need to take a ratio of their passing yards to their rushing yards......

Now come to think of it,  can you really call RG3 a dual threat QB because his only threat is his running ability.


----------



## Beta

PeoplesElbow said:


> For a fair comparison you need to take a ratio of their passing yards to their rushing yards......
> 
> Now come to think of it,  can you really call RG3 a dual threat QB because his only threat is his running ability.





I'd ask if you bother to look up anything before you talk out of your ass, but it's pretty apparent you're an MPD that's making #### up as you go along.  I shouldn't bother, but hey, I'm bored so why not give you a few stats that nix your post.  

RGIII threw for 3200 yards both season he's played (year 1, 15 games.  year 2, 13 games).  That means he was on pace for 3400 yards his rookie year and improved to a 3900 yard pace this past season.  Last season he was 19th in the league in pass yardage, above Kaepernick, yet he played 3 fewer games.  His 16 game pace would have tied him with Flacco and Tannehill, who were 10th/11th in yardage, and his interception total (including the 'pace') was lower than both of them.  Those are two pretty key statistics if you're talking about whether or not he's a "threat" as a passer.  

Oh and just to pile on to Larry's earlier post, it seems like RGIII outperformed both Flacco and Tannehill last season (and Eli Manning), yet RGIII couldn't start for either team.  Huh???  

What am I missing?  A bad record last year due to a hobbled QB and an awful defense & special teams, or is it just the preseason jitters because you're not seeing him do the same stuff as 2012?


----------



## Beta

This is seriously dumbfounding.  The Skins have a starting QB that probably half of the league's fans would trade for in a heartbeat based on what he's done so far and his potential.  And you're all whining because what?  He's still hurt?  He hasn't shown much this preseason?  He could flop, sure, but at least give the kid some time.  You're all being ridiculous.  COUSINS?  Nobody wants him because he's not a special player!  You'd be lucky to get a 6th rounder for Cousins.  How many teams would he start for?  Less than 5, if any.  There are plenty of mediocre players that have similar potential that teams will take a chance on because they'll be on the waiver wire this week.  He's not even a top 10 backup QB yet you're all clamoring for him to start.  The grass is always greener.  Unreal.

Edit:  And let's be realistic.  Snyder isn't benching his 3 1st round draft choice trade for at least another year or two.  He'll be around the Skins for awhile.  And I hope he sucks, terribly, and you guys get to watch him for another 2-3 years before Snyder gives up.  Because that's what crappy, whiny fans deserve.


----------



## Grumpy

Beta said:


> What am I missing?



You're missing the part where for him to play where he is effective, his body won't hold up. IMHO


----------



## Beta

Grumpy said:


> You're missing the part where for him to play where he is effective, his body won't hold up. IMHO



I don't necessarily disagree.  But 13+ games a season is par for the course with QBs.  He needs to change his style of play to run less and slide.  Can it be done?  We'll see.  But people are acting like he's a terrible QB when to this point it's mostly been a durability issue.


----------



## RPMDAD

And another voice heard from.     Just Saying.

Kirk Cousins, the Right Quarterback for the Job in Washington

Jay Gruden finally got the opportunity to be a head coach in the NFL and in order to be successful, he very well may have to do what his predecessor could not -- name Kirk Cousins as the long-term solution at quarterback for the Washington Redskins.

Though Gruden has firmly committed to Robert Griffin III as his starter during a postgame press conference, things can change rather quickly in the NFL. Teams want to win. Owners want to win. First-time head coaches have to win if they want to stay in that position for long. Cousins, the quarterback that is the traditional drop-back passer Gruden's offense requires, is the man that can lead the offense, command the huddle and command the pocket, which Griffin has failed to do thus far.

Former Washington great Joe Theisman didn't hold back when discussing Griffin and Cousins, during the CSN SportsNet telecast of the Redskins' 23-17 loss to the Baltimore Ravens. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lance...back_b_5711459.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592


----------



## PeoplesElbow

I'm not a Washington fan at all, I use to hate them because the way their  fans are but now I just feel sorry for them.  

This guy pretty much sums up what I think of RG3.  

http://www.3dphillysports.com/2013/12/rg3-bust-never-good-first-place/


----------



## Larry Gude

PeoplesElbow said:


> I'm not a Washington fan at all, I use to hate them because the way their  fans are but now I just feel sorry for them.
> 
> This guy pretty much sums up what I think of RG3.
> 
> http://www.3dphillysports.com/2013/12/rg3-bust-never-good-first-place/



I said the same thing with a lot less words.


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> I don't necessarily disagree.  But 13+ games a season is par for the course with QBs.  He needs to change his style of play to run less and slide.  Can it be done?  We'll see.  But people are acting like he's a terrible QB when to this point it's mostly been a durability issue.



He's not terrible. He's just not very good. Durability has nothing to do with being slow making reads and decisions and it has nothing to do with having good mechanics and being accurate, two different things, by the way. Robert has inconsistent mechanics AND is not very accurate. You can't coach accuracy. You can improve it with better mechanics. or, make it worse with poor ones.


----------



## Larry Gude

Grumpy said:


> You're missing the part where for him to play where he is effective, his body won't hold up. IMHO



For him to be effective, defenses have to stop playing the option. That's not going to happen. If they did, he'd still need to be injury free. That is not going to happen. If defenses stopped playing the option and he stayed injury free, he still is slow in reads and making decisions and his motion is inconsistent and he is not very accurate. 

In the meant time, Gruden has to let this play out until Robert either is clearly not getting it done or gets hurt. Or, he, completely at odds with everything we've seen this pre season, reads faster (against regular season defenses) makes quicker decisions and magically becomes more accurate.


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> There's a fatal flaw in your understanding of "dual threat" -- you can be a pocket passer and still be mobile.  My point is that one guy can run and the other can't.  The threat of running is a nice addition.  Even if he's mostly a pocket passer (like Russell Wilson, who Larry likes to compare to RGIII), that doesn't mean he can't get some yards with his legs when plays break down.  Cousins can't do that, and I'm not sure the Skins OL is good enough for a pure pocket passer.
> 
> But if he only runs ~5 times a game instead of 15-20, and he learns how to slide, there's no reason why his body can't hold up.  I don't disagree it puts him at more risk, and it will make him a little more prone to taking hits, but if you work with a moving pocket then it also has the possibility to reduce sacks that would otherwise occur.  That could balance out.
> 
> I don't care what "team management" was doing when Cousins started.  He was horrible.  For as much as you bash on RGIII's season, why did Cousins have so many INTs?  It's not like team management hadn't already "mailed it in" when the Skins were 3-6.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dual threat QBs can do just fine in the NFL.  Wilson is a dual threat and won the Super Bowl.  Cam Newton has done well for 4 years.  Colin Kaepernick took the 49ers to the NFC Title game in back to back seasons.  Have you heard that Hall of Famer named Steve Young?  Dual threat means you can physically run and occasionally use that to your advantage.  It doesn't always mean the run/option game.  It has worked in the NFL, but obviously the more you run, the higher likelihood of injuries.  Then again, plenty of sitting duck pocket passers have been hurt and missed a season (Brady, Manning, Brees, Cutler, Bradford, etc), so it's not like it only happens to the guys with wheels.



Watch some film of Wilson and some of RGIII. The big difference is Wilson tends to be looking for someone to throw the ball to where RGIII, you can tell; he bolts the pocket and THEN starts looking. 

Robert would also look better if he played for Seattle or San Fran. No doubt it is great he can get out of trouble. The problem with that is that he has not figured out how to avoid BIG hits nor how to slide. Those are very simple things compared learning to read a defense and make the right, quick, decision, wouldn't we agree? 

Right now, it ALL looks bad.


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> :
> 
> The read/option is still working just fine.  It will be forced to evolve, but that doesn't mean it won't work.  That's not the only thing RGIII can do, though.
> 
> And you're saying it's OVER?  Are you high?  Seriously Larry, do you watch the NFL?  Wilson just won the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick was the challenger in the NFC title game.  Newton's team was 12-4.  3 of the top 5 NFL teams (12-13 wins) had a dual threat QB, the other two teams having Manning and Brady as their QBs.
> 
> 
> 
> That's called offensive scheme.  The Eagles and Dolphins run something like this.  It worked great for the Eagles last year and the results look promising for Miami this year.  Clearly it worked for the Skins in 2012.  Why not run a scheme that fits your QB?
> 
> So let's see...Washington's starting QB could potentially start for nearly HALF THE LEAGUE!  What, around 12 teams?  Oh wahh what a bad QB.
> 
> If it's tailored to him, and you're saying he's an inaccurate QB being forced to make accurate passes, then it's clearly not tailored to him.  So either the coaches don't understand him as a QB and he's a fish out of water, or you're not understanding the offense and giving me a bad analysis to work with.
> 
> The preseason is the preseason.  I don't know why fans can't comprehend this.  Look at the standings.  The Giants are 4-0, the Vikings are 3-0, the Colts are 0-3, etc.  Like I said before, the Colts have won 9 preseason games since 2005 and have been to the playoffs 8 times.  The Lions were 4-0 in the 2008 preseason before going 0-16.  The preseason means nothing.  It's possible RGIII is still hobbled and needs more recovery time.  It's possible that they're trying to keep him fresh for the regular season.  It's possible they're saving some more "dangerous" plays that exploit his skill-set for the regular season.  It's possible they're working on his weaknesses that you're pointing out, namely accuracy, and want him to practice that extra during the preseason.  The preseason is a time for *experimentation* and every team does it to varying levels.  You're not going to see the Patriots experiment as much in the preseason because they've been at it for 15 years now.  But when there's a new coach in town, or when a season didn't go well, you're usually going to see more experimentation and more hiding of plays.




The read option, in DC, with RGIII, is over. It is not working fine. It is a gimmick. It will, like any gimmick, work once in awhile but, in '12, it was bread and butter, THE staple of the Skins offense. 

Again, RGIII looks better playing for Seattle or San Fran; two teams with WAY more talent than us, across the board. Carolina is better than us and Newton is, clearly, a better QB than Robert. 
I'd take Wilson over Robert not because of talent. RGIII has him there, some, but, because I don't have to hold my breath every time Wilson starts running around. 

There have been all sorts of busts with top draft picks, including QB. Nothing new, happens regularly. What also happens is that top qb picks that work out tend to show it very early. Manning's first season was a wreck W's and L's but, it was clear as could be he was going to be great. Heading into year 3, I'm not real excited to say our #1 pick we traded the farm for might start for 12 of the worst teams in the league. 

As for pre season, I do NOT care about W's or L's or even the score. ALL I care about is seeing good play for that series or two or three or half. We've seen poor play by Robert. 

You can't tailor an NFL offense to someone who reads slow, decides slow, has an inconsistent motion, isn't particularly accurate and gets hurt coming out of the huddle. Well, you can but, it's not going to the Super bowl.  

And this 'hiding' stuff in the preseason misses two key points; the other teams are probably 'hiding' some stuff, too and you're not going to get good at anything if you don't run it. In games. Brady, Manning, they can 'hide' stuff because they can already do the job. Robert needs all the practice he can get.


----------



## Chris0nllyn

Go Bucs!


----------



## Beta

Read this today and thought of this thread.   http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nfl-teams-improve-2014/



> There appears to be some sort of ritual in the D.C. area to insist that Cousins — who is on pace to throw something like 30 interceptions over the course of a full season through his career’s first 203 pass attempts — is a viable professional football quarterback. I won’t claim to understand it. I am sure Cousins is a nice guy. More than anywhere else, it seems like Washington has an endless stream of former players who love nothing more but to give their opinion on who should start for the team in 2014. There’s going to be a day when the Washington Post just devotes an entire day’s paper to asking the likes of Fred Smoot, Heath Shuler, and James Thrash whether Washington should start the guy who was really good but can’t stay healthy or the guy who has never been good but isn’t the guy who can’t stay healthy.





They also picked the Skins to win the NFC East (but said the preseason made that questionable).


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> Read this today and...



...now I have even more doubts about this kid. 



> But he said as he enters the regular season, he has nothing to prove.
> 
> “Nothing,” He said. “I do this for my teammates. I do this for my family; for this organization. We don’t have anything to prove to anybody else out there. We just have to go out there and be the team we know we can be. I guess you can say we have a lot to prove to ourselves in this building, and it’s about all of us going out there and being successful. I’ve said this offseason many times, ‘They go as I go. If I play well, they play well. If I don’t play well, they don’t play well.’ I understand hat. They understand that, and I’m going to do my best, and I promise I’ll play well for them.”


----------



## Larry Gude

Chris0nllyn said:


> Go Bucs!



What's up with them??? I was near a radio most of the day today, from 5 am to now and a BUNCH of people are picking them to win the South and/or saying they will have a really good season. 

What up?


----------



## Chris0nllyn

Larry Gude said:


> What's up with them??? I was near a radio most of the day today, from 5 am to now and a BUNCH of people are picking them to win the South and/or saying they will have a really good season.
> 
> What up?



New coaching staff, new QB, revamped team (12 free agency hires along with mostly offensive draft pickups) ,VERY good defensive players like Lavonte David, Gerald McCoy, Alterraun Verner, Dashon Goldson, etc. 

On paper, the team is STACKED with both young and old talent (especially on defense). The biggest downside coming out of preseason was the dreadful o-line. The just traded Tim Wright to the Pats for multi-pro bowl O-lineman Logan Mankins.

Maybe it's all hype, but with Lovie Smith coaching, Jeff Tedford as OC and Leslie Frazier as DC, I think we have a chance to at least compete this year. Maybe not go all the way (Saints are the #1 contender for the NFC south), but anything is better than the Schiano era that bombed to a 4-12 record last year.


----------



## Beta

I think the Bucs still have a ways to go.  8-8 would be a successful season.  Atlanta, New Orleans, and Panthers are all in the same division.  The Panthers will probably take a step back but the Falcons should be back this year.  I'm not the least bit sold on McCown and they may not have a TE since they traded away Tim Wright (their new starter is a project that they're hoping pans out).  Their 2nd starting WR is a rookie.  He looks good, but usually rookies struggle their first year, so that's risky.  It's a good thing they got Mankins because their guards were a DISASTER.  The defense should be decent, but we'll see.

Good coaching can go a long way, but I think Tampa still needs a talent infusion if they want to compete in that division.  It doesn't help matters that they're playing the NFC and AFC North divisions this year, BUT at least they avoid cold games.  Pitt, Balt, and Cinci are all going to be good, then Detroit, Green Bay, and Chicago are all going to be tough games.  They play the Skins @ FedEx on November 16th too...could be a fun game.

All of that being said, they could surprise, but I wouldn't count on anything more than 8 Ws.


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> All of that being said, they could surprise, but I wouldn't count on anything more than 8 Ws.



It's an amazing thing, the NFL. The worst to first teams, the first to worst, trying to get a reasonable prediction on anything past the Patriots, all the team by team analysis, like what you just did. 

I would enjoy it if, say, Mike and Mike, played the show from 365 days ago and then discussed how all their predictions turn out and why to see if there is really anything to any of this...besides the Pats. 

I mean, a lot of people swore the Seahawks weren't even likely to make the playoffs.


----------



## PeoplesElbow

Another fine redskins performance.


----------



## GregV814

PeoplesElbow said:


> Another fine redskins performance.




Racist...!!! Actually when the "team from waRshington" came on the field before a pre-season game and saluted that punkazz thug shot by the policcccceeeee, to honor HIM, I lost what little respect I had for them. Birds of a feather, apple does not fall from the tree....yadda yadda.


----------



## b23hqb

Chris0nllyn said:


> New coaching staff, new QB, revamped team (12 free agency hires along with mostly offensive draft pickups) ,VERY good defensive players like Lavonte David, Gerald McCoy, Alterraun Verner, Dashon Goldson, etc.
> 
> On paper, the team is STACKED with both young and old talent (especially on defense). The biggest downside coming out of preseason was the dreadful o-line. The just traded Tim Wright to the Pats for multi-pro bowl O-lineman Logan Mankins.
> 
> Maybe it's all hype, but with Lovie Smith coaching, Jeff Tedford as OC and Leslie Frazier as DC, I think we have a chance to at least compete this year. Maybe not go all the way (Saints are the #1 contender for the NFC south), but anything is better than the Schiano era that bombed to a 4-12 record last year.



Bucs have no real chance. As an original season ticket holder to this day, yesterday began my/our 39th season in an all too familiar fashion. Josh McGown is nothing but a journeyman QB, mostly a backup. He displayed that yesterday. Our defense is improved, but still cannot get the other team off the field on third down (third and long for the opponent - they have the Bucs just where they want to be). Goldson dropping a sure INT deep in Carolina territory late in the game that very well should have been a pick six or at the least very close FG range to tie the game. Then a fumble by Rainey on the Bucs final possession - well, just plain old Bucs ball.

After attending nearly every one of the 300 regular season games, plus playoff games at home, the Bucs will do well to finish at .500. Losing to Carolina yesterday in the pathetic fashion they did for 3.5 quarters is unfortunately an all too familiar formula.

Lovie Smith is a good coach, but he isn't a miracle worker.

It was hot yesterday, and the heat has already turned up on this team and staff, facing St. Louis this week and their very stout defense. If the boos rain down, so be it. I'm nearly four decades used to it.


----------



## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> It's an amazing thing, the NFL. The worst to first teams, the first to worst, trying to get a reasonable prediction on anything past the Patriots, all the team by team analysis, like what you just did.
> 
> I would enjoy it if, say, Mike and Mike, played the show from 365 days ago and then discussed how all their predictions turn out and why to see if there is really anything to any of this...besides the Pats.
> 
> I mean, a lot of people swore the Seahawks weren't even likely to make the playoffs.


There are plenty of predictions that are crap, but a lot of that is because the national talking heads don't pay attention to the day to day workings of most teams and usually make predictions based on the previous season.  You always know there will be some surprise teams (both good and bad).

I'm not sure who you follow, but the Seahawks were supposed to challenge the 49ers for NFC West supremacy last year.  :shrug:

And the Patriots look like they might be coming back to the pack this year, so maybe even that prediction becomes more difficult 


BTW Larry -- did you watch the game??  I didn't.  RGIII's stats look good (96.7 QB rating), good completion percentage, decent yardage, Morris seemed to run well...so my question is, how did they only score once???  Were the incomplete passes mostly on 3rd down?  Was it the two turnovers?  Bad penalties (7 for 70yds)?  Passes thrown short of the sticks with little to no YAC?  I have a hard time seeing a team get 20 first downs, 372 yards, and 6 points 

All I know is it's pretty apparent the Skins Special Teams blew the game.  2 blocked kicks?  Awful, even if you're playing JJ Watt.  That's an 8 point swing.  At 10-7 you just need a FG to tie instead of needing 2 touchdowns.



b23hqb said:


> Bucs have no real chance. As an original season ticket holder to this day, yesterday began my/our 39th season in an all too familiar fashion. Josh McGown is nothing but a journeyman QB, mostly a backup. He displayed that yesterday. Our defense is improved, but still cannot get the other team off the field on third down (third and long for the opponent - they have the Bucs just where they want to be). Goldson dropping a sure INT deep in Carolina territory late in the game that very well should have been a pick six or at the least very close FG range to tie the game. Then a fumble by Rainey on the Bucs final possession - well, just plain old Bucs ball.
> 
> After attending nearly every one of the 300 regular season games, plus playoff games at home, the Bucs will do well to finish at .500. Losing to Carolina yesterday in the pathetic fashion they did for 3.5 quarters is unfortunately an all too familiar formula.
> 
> Lovie Smith is a good coach, but he isn't a miracle worker.
> 
> It was hot yesterday, and the heat has already turned up on this team and staff, facing St. Louis this week and their very stout defense. If the boos rain down, so be it. I'm nearly four decades used to it.



BINGO!  Sorry to hear about your troubles as a Bucs fan.  At least 2002 treated you well.

Mind you, that "improved" defense was playing a backup QB and an offense that was expected to be pretty bad even with Newton at the helm.  So we'll see how improved it really is.


----------



## Chris0nllyn

b23hqb said:


> Bucs have no real chance. As an original season ticket holder to this day, yesterday began my/our 39th season in an all too familiar fashion. Josh McGown is nothing but a journeyman QB, mostly a backup. He displayed that yesterday. Our defense is improved, but still cannot get the other team off the field on third down (third and long for the opponent - they have the Bucs just where they want to be). Goldson dropping a sure INT deep in Carolina territory late in the game that very well should have been a pick six or at the least very close FG range to tie the game. Then a fumble by Rainey on the Bucs final possession - well, just plain old Bucs ball.
> 
> After attending nearly every one of the 300 regular season games, plus playoff games at home, the Bucs will do well to finish at .500. Losing to Carolina yesterday in the pathetic fashion they did for 3.5 quarters is unfortunately an all too familiar formula.
> 
> Lovie Smith is a good coach, but he isn't a miracle worker.
> 
> It was hot yesterday, and the heat has already turned up on this team and staff, facing St. Louis this week and their very stout defense. If the boos rain down, so be it. I'm nearly four decades used to it.



It was tough watching the game yesterday. Not sure if it was the jitters, or first game, or what, but McCLOWN looked like a rookie out there. (How the hell do you fumble AND throw an INT in the same play!?).

Of course it didn't help that Mankins, Martin, and Jenkins got hurt.

They did show _some_ signs of life in the last 1/5th of the game, and Goldson should have picked that last ball for the walk-in pick 6. It wouldn't have been pretty, but they could have won. Or blame Rainey for the last fumble, whatever.

Each year I find myself wondering when I'll change teams.



Beta said:


> BINGO!  Sorry to hear about your troubles as a Bucs fan.  At least 2002 treated you well.
> 
> Mind you, that "improved" defense was playing a backup QB and an offense that was expected to be pretty bad even with Newton at the helm.  So we'll see how improved it really is.



To Anderson's defense, he looked good. Not spectacular, but he didn't need to be. He just needed to make the right decisions, and he did. 

Defense needed to create turnovers and it didn't. Glad to see McCoy get sack #1, but the D-line never really put too much pressure on Anderson. Secondary stunk up the join constantly blowing coverages on Greg Olsen.


----------



## b23hqb

Beta said:


> There are plenty of predictions that are crap, but a lot of that is because the national talking heads don't pay attention to the day to day workings of most teams and usually make predictions based on the previous season.  You always know there will be some surprise teams (both good and bad).
> 
> I'm not sure who you follow, but the Seahawks were supposed to challenge the 49ers for NFC West supremacy last year.  :shrug:
> 
> And the Patriots look like they might be coming back to the pack this year, so maybe even that prediction becomes more difficult
> 
> 
> BTW Larry -- did you watch the game??  I didn't.  RGIII's stats look good (96.7 QB rating), good completion percentage, decent yardage, Morris seemed to run well...so my question is, how did they only score once???  Were the incomplete passes mostly on 3rd down?  Was it the two turnovers?  Bad penalties (7 for 70yds)?  Passes thrown short of the sticks with little to no YAC?  I have a hard time seeing a team get 20 first downs, 372 yards, and 6 points
> 
> All I know is it's pretty apparent the Skins Special Teams blew the game.  2 blocked kicks?  Awful, even if you're playing JJ Watt.  That's an 8 point swing.  At 10-7 you just need a FG to tie instead of needing 2 touchdowns.
> 
> 
> 
> BINGO!  Sorry to hear about your troubles as a Bucs fan.  At least 2002 treated you well.
> 
> Mind you, that "improved" defense was playing a backup QB and an offense that was expected to be pretty bad even with Newton at the helm.  So we'll see how improved it really is.



I'm giving them this year and next to make 40 years sitting in the seats. I'll be 62 then, and I will really press the Bucs for a few years of them paying MY way to the games as a sign of appreciation. If things don't turn around, they just may take me up on that just to keep butts in the seats. I was given two free tickets as a long time supporter, and took them for a niece and her hubby, who enjoyed the game. I've already petitioned my customer rep for more of the same.

It does get to be a chore for most 1:00 games, leaving church at noon and usually getting to my parking spot across the street, but we always make it inside the stadium by the SBB or the usual fly-over.

BUC-CAN-EERS! GO BUCS!


----------



## Chris0nllyn

b23hqb said:


> I'm giving them this year and next to make 40 years sitting in the seats. I'll be 62 then, and I will really press the Bucs for a few years of them paying MY way to the games as a sign of appreciation. If things don't turn around, they just may take me up on that just to keep butts in the seats. I was given two free tickets as a long time supporter, and took them for a niece and her hubby, who enjoyed the game. I've already petitioned my customer rep for more of the same.
> 
> It does get to be a chore for most 1:00 games, leaving church at noon and usually getting to my parking spot across the street, but we always make it inside the stadium by the SBB or the usual fly-over.
> 
> BUC-CAN-EERS! GO BUCS!



Did you end up going to the fan appreciation day, or whatever it was when they sampled the new concessions?


----------



## Larry Gude

Chris0nllyn said:


> Each year I find myself wondering when I'll change teams.
> 
> .



You can't do that. At least, not if you are a real 'fan', IE, 'fanatic', IE 'irrationally, immaturely, absurdly attracted to something beyond all reason and/or explanation'.


----------



## Beta

Chris0nllyn said:


> To Anderson's defense, he looked good. Not spectacular, but he didn't need to be. He just needed to make the right decisions, and he did.
> 
> Defense needed to create turnovers and it didn't. Glad to see McCoy get sack #1, but the D-line never really put too much pressure on Anderson. Secondary stunk up the join constantly blowing coverages on Greg Olsen.


True, but everyone was questioning what weapons the QB had other than Olsen.  So the question is why couldn't their defense cover anyone else?  My suspicion is that the rest of the defense looked promising because they only had to cover half of the field the last couple seasons (thank you, Revis) and now that Revis is gone they're realizing just how much he helped the rest of the secondary.

McCoy is a BEAST!  I watched him manhandle a Dolphins guard time and time again during their preseason game.  He's impressive to watch.  That game actually changed the Dolphins starting lineup at guard 



b23hqb said:


> I'm giving them this year and next to make 40 years sitting in the seats. I'll be 62 then, and I will really press the Bucs for a few years of them paying MY way to the games as a sign of appreciation. If things don't turn around, they just may take me up on that just to keep butts in the seats. I was given two free tickets as a long time supporter, and took them for a niece and her hubby, who enjoyed the game. I've already petitioned my customer rep for more of the same.
> 
> It does get to be a chore for most 1:00 games, leaving church at noon and usually getting to my parking spot across the street, but we always make it inside the stadium by the SBB or the usual fly-over.
> 
> BUC-CAN-EERS! GO BUCS!



very cool.  I hope they keep treating you well.  I like that stadium...when I got to go I sat by the Pirate ship


----------



## Chris0nllyn

Beta said:


> True, but everyone was questioning what weapons the QB had other than Olsen.  So the question is why couldn't their defense cover anyone else?  My suspicion is that the rest of the defense looked promising because they only had to cover half of the field the last couple seasons (thank you, Revis) and now that Revis is gone they're realizing just how much he helped the rest of the secondary.
> 
> McCoy is a BEAST!  I watched him manhandle a Dolphins guard time and time again during their preseason game.  He's impressive to watch.  That game actually changed the Dolphins starting lineup at guard
> 
> 
> 
> very cool.  I hope they keep treating you well.  I like that stadium...when I got to go I sat by the Pirate ship



Verner (Revis' replacement) shut down his half of the field, and PFF graded him the highest Corner on Sunday. He was only thrown toward 1 time and the receiver got a 4 yard gain (on a 3rd and 16) . Considering he didn't play at all during the preseason, he did a damn good job. Jenkins on the other hand....



> Breakdown: The man added to replace Revis, Verner matched a successful first outing in coverage with a strong showing in run support, notching one tackle for a loss and two more for short gains. Looking like he’ll fit in well.
> 
> Signature stat: Verner currently tops our CB overall rankings, sitting just above his former Tennessee teammate Jason McCourty.



https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/09/08/refo-panthers-buccaneers-week-1/

Can't say enough about McCoy. IMO, #1 DT in the league. Michal Johnson needs to step up if teams are going to throw double and triple teams a McCoy.

then you've got Lavonte David. Dude should have went to the pro-bowl last year, but was named All-Pro. He's an absolute ball hawk with tremendous tackling skills. He constantly gives close to 10 points per game on my fantasy team. Last year he had, 145 combined tackles, 7 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 5 interceptions, 10 passes defended, and a safety. 

Just don't let the ship scare you like Cam Newton. You know it's coming after a field goal or touchdown, but the random ones will get you. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/cam-...t-well-to-the-bucs-cannon-being-fired-2013-10


----------



## Monello

Damn Bucs' fans intercepted RGRGRG's thread


----------



## Larry Gude

Monello said:


> Damn Bucs' fans intercepted RGRGRG's thread



Not a heck of a lot more to say about 'ol Bobby Trey...


----------



## PeoplesElbow

Well that didnt take long


----------



## Larry Gude

PeoplesElbow said:


> Well that didnt take long



Dislocated ankle, maybe torn ligs. Plenty of time to come back and get hurt again.


----------



## b23hqb

Larry Gude said:


> Dislocated ankle, maybe torn ligs. Plenty of time to come back and get hurt again.



Bob III riding the meat wagon - again. Damaged goods.


----------



## RPMDAD

Larry Gude said:


> Dislocated ankle, maybe torn ligs. Plenty of time to come back and get hurt again.



Hope he takes his time Cousins is looking good so far without all the drama.


----------



## b23hqb

RPMDAD said:


> Hope he takes his time Cousins is looking good so far without all the drama.



Bob III is just another pretty media face with no longevity, but millions in the bank. Cousins is the long term answer but without the flowing dreads......


----------



## Larry Gude

RPMDAD said:


> Hope he takes his time Cousins is looking good so far without all the drama.



He simply can't help himself. Even that first play, take off, get some yards and then slide, he was awkward as hell and more fell than slid. He could not have played much little league. 
The play he got hurt, classic Bobby Trey; double back flip somersault off the high dive into a soup can. It's his JOB to preserve himself. I do not think he can play any other way. Just can't do it. I admire the fire and desire but, that's not the job. Especially with that lanky collection of parts designed for straight line operation only. What a mess. A sad, unhappy mess. 

Cousins is gonna have his bad days and sooner rather than later but, if he keeps making decisions RIGHT now, and delivering 2 out 3 times, takes his coaching, don't make the 'BIG oops', let that D do their thing, run the ball, we got a football team. 

Part of me things Griffin has played his last down for the Redskins. Clearly, he's not getting the job back if he returns this year. Cousins has a solid chance of having the job locked up heading into the off-season, especially if they make the playoffs, even more so if, somehow, they win one, and it's gonna be fresh start time. And who is gonna want him??? Seriously. Why? He had all off season. He had preseason and he's simply not that good AND can not help himself from injury. 

Is his career over? 

:shrug:


----------



## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> Part of me things Griffin has played his last down for the Redskins. Clearly, he's not getting the job back if he returns this year. Cousins has a solid chance of having the job locked up heading into the off-season, especially if they make the playoffs, even more so if, somehow, they win one, and it's gonna be fresh start time.


Slow down there.  Just because Cousins looked good against the team that's going to land the 1st overall pick in next year's draft doesn't mean he's going to lock the job down.  

Cousins had a solid game, but RGIII looked just fine as well before he got hurt (and even immediately following the injury...since the last pass was thrown AFTER he busted his ankle!).

If Cousins does well this year then he probably locks the job down, just like Foles did with the Eagles last year.  You can't argue with success and you definitely don't derail a train that has momentum (although the 72 Fins did that by benching a winning Morrall with Griese in the playoffs, so who knows).  But to assume Cousins has already locked the job down for the season after a game against the woeful Jags?  Come on now.  Let them play a few games.  If they win a few and their offense looks solid then maybe it'll become Cousins' job to lose.  But at least now you get your wish to see him start, for better or for worse


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> Slow down there.  Just because Cousins looked good against the team that's going to land the 1st overall pick in next year's draft doesn't mean he's going to lock the job down.
> 
> Cousins had a solid game, but RGIII looked just fine as well before he got hurt (and even immediately following the injury...since the last pass was thrown AFTER he busted his ankle!).
> 
> If Cousins does well this year then he probably locks the job down, just like Foles did with the Eagles last year.  You can't argue with success and you definitely don't derail a train that has momentum (although the 72 Fins did that by benching a winning Morrall with Griese in the playoffs, so who knows).  But to assume Cousins has already locked the job down for the season after a game against the woeful Jags?  Come on now.  Let them play a few games.  If they win a few and their offense looks solid then maybe it'll become Cousins' job to lose.  But at least now you get your wish to see him start, for better or for worse



I specifically pointed out that Cousins does NOT have it made; "Cousins is gonna have his bad days and sooner rather than later..." 

But, the contrast could not be greater. I have not seen RGIII look good, at all, this year or last. Kirk has that nervous excitement look, that he KNOWS what's looking for and Robert, frankly has never had it. He always looks like he's making it up as he goes. The play that took him out is 100% him; an athletic artist trying to create beauty come hell or high water. Unfortunately for him the hell and high water are omnipresent.


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> Sl  But at least now you get your wish to see him start, for better or for worse



My wish is to go back in time and not waste those three picks.


----------



## Beta

Larry Gude said:


> I specifically pointed out that Cousins does NOT have it made; "Cousins is gonna have his bad days and sooner rather than later..."
> 
> But, the contrast could not be greater. I have not seen RGIII look good, at all, this year or last. Kirk has that nervous excitement look, that he KNOWS what's looking for and Robert, frankly has never had it. He always looks like he's making it up as he goes. The play that took him out is 100% him; an athletic artist trying to create beauty come hell or high water. Unfortunately for him the hell and high water are omnipresent.


But you also said "Clearly he's not getting the job back if he returns this year" which indicates Cousins has it made this season, so that's what I was talking about.  I doubt it'll be an issue anyway since RGIII probably won't be back this year.

And he looked fine before getting hurt.  2/3 with the lone incompletion being very close (challenged, in fact), a couple of good runs, and he had them driving.  It's not like Cousins came in and suddenly they played better.  He threw a TD to a wide open receiver to finish RGIII's drive, then they went 3 & out the next drive.  :shrug:



Larry Gude said:


> My wish is to go back in time and not waste those three picks.


Well, your realistic wish anyway.  

At the time it looked like a decent idea, but whoever thought RGIII with his running was going to turn out any way other than Vick was fooling themselves.


----------



## Larry Gude

Beta said:


> But you also said "Clearly he's not getting the job back if he returns this year" which indicates Cousins has it made this season, so that's what I was talking about.  I doubt it'll be an issue anyway since RGIII probably won't be back this year. s.



Cousins has it made from the stand point that he is solid, knows the offense, is decisive and makes good decisions and this is his third year, too. I am not suggesting he is the next Tom Brady or Rivers or an all pro but, I will not be surprised if he is considered in the top half of NFL qb's at seasons end.


----------



## kom526

I watched Cousins look off a safety (completed pass), and progress through 3 reads, (completed pass) all without getting happy RGIII feet ... :shrug: I don't if I've ever seen #10 do that consistently.


----------



## Larry Gude

kom526 said:


> I watched Cousins look off a safety (completed pass), and progress through 3 reads, (completed pass) all without getting happy RGIII feet ... :shrug: I don't if I've ever seen #10 do that consistently.



And he does it QUICK. Right now. It's only one game and maybe Jax Defense is awful but, he looks better than last year. Robert didn't. 

Best comment I've read; "Jay Gruden now doesn't have to deal with benching RGIII"


----------



## b23hqb

Larry Gude said:


> Cousins has it made from the stand point that he is solid, knows the offense, is decisive and makes good decisions and this is his third year, too. I am not suggesting he is the next Tom Brady or Rivers or an all pro but, I will not be surprised if he is considered in the top half of NFL qb's at seasons end.



So you're saying Cousins is the better QB right now, and probably has been since they both got to the 'Skins? I would agree with that. Bob III was/is just another pretty, with the flowing dreads and wide smile, face for the NFL, and met all the requirements for fan attraction, but not in the reality of "what have you done for me lately in the NFL?"

If Cousins plays solid, which I think he will, there is no reason to even consider III as the future. III will be a temporary starter elsewhere until he gets hurt - again - and then will be overtaken by the, in football reality, better QB on the roster, no matter which team.


----------



## Larry Gude

b23hqb said:


> So you're saying Cousins is the better QB right now, and probably has been since they both got to the 'Skins? I would agree with that. Bob III was/is just another pretty, with the flowing dreads and wide smile, face for the NFL, and met all the requirements for fan attraction, but not in the reality of "what have you done for me lately in the NFL?"
> 
> If Cousins plays solid, which I think he will, there is no reason to even consider III as the future. III will be a temporary starter elsewhere until he gets hurt - again - and then will be overtaken by the, in football reality, better QB on the roster, no matter which team.



It's not fair of me to say Cousins was 'better' from day one and I don't mean to. If he was, it wasn't much difference. There were rumors that their rookie year, he was 'getting it' faster and had they been drafted in the same spot, he'd have started. 

My beef is that Robert had a great rookie season but, at a terrible price. That season was awesome and fun and it had potential, especially for a rookie year but, I think Mike Shanahan failed the most basic leadership test you could ever expect of a head coach when he did not MAKE Robert sit out right after that one tweak of his knee in the Seattle playoff game. He stood there, Mike, and watched a prized thoroughbred, destroy itself. I lost ALL respect for him right then and there. 

Past that, last season was doomed with the entire Owner Buddy, all in for week 1 crap. Again, Mike coulda stopped that cold day one and said he MIGHT play by mid season IF his knee is sound. 

So, it's not fair of me if it sounds like I am saying he was never 'great'. He's a HUGE talent. Just dumb. He has none of the self control a QB MUST have. 

Now, I did write, year one, that even though he was playing good, even if he DID play good, you're still looking at Cousins and THREE first rounders, be they linemen on either side or a skill person, and a mid level QB, Cousins, OR Robert and the No Names. I would have taken A then and now. 

But, if it all went by 'the book' it would be baseball and I'd not care at all.


----------



## b23hqb

Larry Gude said:


> It's not fair of me to say Cousins was 'better' from day one and I don't mean to. If he was, it wasn't much difference. There were rumors that their rookie year, he was 'getting it' faster and had they been drafted in the same spot, he'd have started.
> 
> My beef is that Robert had a great rookie season but, at a terrible price. That season was awesome and fun and it had potential, especially for a rookie year but, I think Mike Shanahan failed the most basic leadership test you could ever expect of a head coach when he did not MAKE Robert sit out right after that one tweak of his knee in the Seattle playoff game. He stood there, Mike, and watched a prized thoroughbred, destroy itself. I lost ALL respect for him right then and there.
> 
> Past that, last season was doomed with the entire Owner Buddy, all in for week 1 crap. Again, Mike coulda stopped that cold day one and said he MIGHT play by mid season IF his knee is sound.
> 
> So, it's not fair of me if it sounds like I am saying he was never 'great'. He's a HUGE talent. Just dumb. He has none of the self control a QB MUST have.
> 
> Now, I did write, year one, that even though he was playing good, even if he DID play good, you're still looking at Cousins and THREE first rounders, be they linemen on either side or a skill person, and a mid level QB, Cousins, OR Robert and the No Names. I would have taken A then and now.
> 
> But, if it all went by 'the book' it would be baseball and I'd not care at all.



No argument from me there. I revert to the III's rookie year during the game here in Tampa, when the Bucs had the 'Skins trailing and on the ropes late, when on third and long III took off around the left side, across the line of scrimmage, was absolutely flattened by a Bucs defender and the ref threw a flag for "roughing the QB", on a clean, legit tackle, beyond the line of scrimmage, that would have forced a fourth and very long and a punt. Instead, the 'Skins end up going down the field after that horrendous call and score the winning points.

The NFL clearly had a point to prove in having to have QB's like Bob III stay on the field for ratings. Not that they deserved to be starting QB's, but that he and others like him were the face of the NFL that the league desperately wanted to succeed.

Limbaugh was right back in the day concerning McNabb. Nothing has changed


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## Larry Gude

b23hqb said:


> The NFL clearly had a point to prove in having to have QB's like Bob III stay on the field for ratings. Not that they deserved to be starting QB's, but that he and others like him were the face of the NFL that the league desperately wanted to succeed.
> 
> Limbaugh was right back in the day concerning McNabb. Nothing has changed



You were fine up until that last. Limbaugh was NOT right and he wasn't even close. 

We, Redskins fans, were terrified of the guy. Maybe he wasn't the best reader of defenses of all time but, that guy was a stud. We could never get him down, he'd always pull off a screen to kill us and he had plenty of arm. What did he do, 4 NFC championship games in a row? He was NOT their weak link. 

Rush said that solely to be inflammatory and it was an asinine, stupid comment to make. I lost a TON of respect for him over that. The NFL, if anything, has taken great steps to protect the Brady's and Peyton's of the league.


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## Grumpy

b23hqb said:


> The NFL clearly had a point to prove in having to have QB's like Bob III stay on the field for ratings. Not that they deserved to be starting QB's, but that he and others like him were the face of the NFL that the league desperately wanted to succeed.



I absolutely love conspiracy theories but I won't bite on that one. Snyder maybe paying off Refs to protect RGIII, I could see that, but no way would the NFL would do it. lol

 I have contended from the first time I actually saw RGIII that he would get broke up in the NFL and was laughed at when I have said over and over that he does not have a football body. Cousins playing his best is no where close to what a healthy RGIII could do in an offense utilizing his best assets. I don't know what lays ahead for the skins and RGIII but, IMO, nothing good will come of him now.


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## Larry Gude

Grumpy said:


> I absolutely love conspiracy theories but I won't bite on that one. Snyder maybe paying off Refs to protect RGIII, I could see that, but no way would the NFL would do it. lol
> 
> I have contended from the first time I actually saw RGIII that he would get broke up in the NFL and was laughed at when I have said over and over that he does not have a football body. Cousins playing his best is no where close to what a healthy RGIII could do in an offense utilizing his best assets. I don't know what lays ahead for the skins and RGIII but, IMO, nothing good will come of him now.



If Snyder had ALL the money in the world, he couldn't protect Bobby Trey from himself. Snyder DOES have most of the money in the world, top notch coaching and Robert can NOT help himself. I admire the no holding back. It's great for life or death situations. Not so good for a job where the most important thing is to eb able to keep getting back up. 

Put his ass on a life guard tower.


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## Larry Gude

Grumpy said:


> I have contended from the first time I actually saw RGIII that he would get broke up in the NFL and was laughed at when I have said over and over that he does not have a football body. Cousins playing his best is no where close to what a healthy RGIII could do in an offense utilizing his best assets. I don't know what lays ahead for the skins and RGIII but, IMO, nothing good will come of him now.



Really? I, and many others, have been saying the same thing and no none laughed at us. I heard 'we'll see' but, I never heard anyone argue that he wasn't a little...slight...to take the pounding.


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## Grumpy

Larry Gude said:


> Put his ass on a life guard tower.



I'm thinking Dancing with the Stars isn't in his future anymore.


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## Larry Gude

Grumpy said:


> I'm thinking Dancing with the Stars isn't in his future anymore.



Sure. Why not? He'd get going, look great, then collapse in a heap. Ruptured Achilles. Blown ACL. Do a split and tear his groin.

I feel bad for the guy.


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## b23hqb

Larry Gude said:


> You were fine up until that last. Limbaugh was NOT right and he wasn't even close.
> 
> We, Redskins fans, were terrified of the guy. Maybe he wasn't the best reader of defenses of all time but, that guy was a stud. We could never get him down, he'd always pull off a screen to kill us and he had plenty of arm. What did he do, 4 NFC championship games in a row? He was NOT their weak link.
> 
> Rush said that solely to be inflammatory and it was an asinine, stupid comment to make. I lost a TON of respect for him over that. The NFL, if anything, has taken great steps to protect the Brady's and Peyton's of the league.



You can lose whatever respect for someone that says it like it really is. Being a stud doesn't matter. even in the NFL, if one cannot surpass, or even equal, their peers.

Limbaugh told it like it was, and like it is today. McNabb may have been a thorn in the side of the 'Skins, but overall was just an average QB that received the accolades of the league and press, just because he was the poster boy of the league, desperately wanting a black QB to be at the top. The league needs someone of color that can reach the aspect of the Manning, Brady ,Breese's of the league. If anyone, that person will be Wilson, if he can hold out for the long run.

Man, did the Bucs prove that in Philly, by Ronde Barber returning that Int for a TD that propelled TB to a SB win, while McNabb was finished and failed to stand up to the NFL hype.

But I say the NFL will not really be happy until a QB of two black parents, not inter-racial, can reach the elite ranks. Until then, the NFL will promote to their highest degree the black QB.

Nothing racial about that. Just fact.


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## PeoplesElbow

This is a wonderful lookback into history.  

http://forums.somd.com/threads/261197-Kirk-Cousins?highlight=RGIII


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## b23hqb

Kirk Cousins - the best QB or the 'Skins.Nowhere as pretty as the flowing dreads of III, but the NFL does not want a Cousins, they want a Bob III. 

Limbaugh was right - no matter what one wants to believe.


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