# Lots of sirens



## afjess1989

Lots of Sirens going off in the California area... anyone know whats up? it was all quite in my house i had the windows open and no tv on and then i heard a firetruck scared the bujebus outta me!


----------



## FireBrand

Auto accident near  tj bridge on st mary's side (around kingston crk rd) involving a motorcycle.


----------



## afjess1989

FireBrand said:


> Auto accident near bridge on st mary's side (around kingston crk rd) involving a motorcycle.



OH NO! i hope everyone is ok!


----------



## FireBrand

Rt 4 shut down on St. Mary's side.


----------



## afjess1989

FireBrand said:


> Rt 4 shut down on St. Mary's side.



Any info on how the person(s) are doing


----------



## FireBrand

afjess1989 said:


> Any info on how the person(s) are doing


You may want to tap into the scanners.
I think that I heard that they are still looking for one driver and I think that I just heard the term priority 4 used but take this all with a grain of salt because
I'm having a hard time hearing details. Radios seem very scratchy tonight.


----------



## jazz lady

From Southern Maryland News Net:



> Route 4 is shut in the area of Kingston Creek Road down in both directions. Police are now trying to clear the bridge so cars will not be waiting on the bridge. This closure could be for a few hours. St. Mary's County Sheriff's Deputies are reconstructing a double fatal motor vehicle accident involving two cars and a motorcycle. The accident occurred at 11:10PM Monday June 4th.



Route 4 Shut Down Due to Fatal Accident | Southern Maryland News Net


----------



## Katelin

jazz lady said:


> From Southern Maryland News Net:



Oh,wow..so horrible...right at the chruch intersection....
Prayers for families, and all involved, including Fire, Rescue, Police.


----------



## Danzig

Route 4 is shut down in the area of Kingston Creek Road down in both directions. Police are now trying to clear the bridge so cars will not be waiting on the bridge. This closure could be for a few hours. St. Mary's County Sheriff's Deputies are reconstructing a double fatal motor vehicle accident involving two cars and a motorcycle. The accident occurred at 11:10PM Monday June 4th.

According to witnesses at the scene, one of the cars involved was racing with the motorcycle. At least one other witness reported the racing vehicles had passed at least one vehicle on the bridge and multiple vehicles on Rt 4.


----------



## afjess1989

Danzig said:


> Route 4 is shut down in the area of Kingston Creek Road down in both directions. Police are now trying to clear the bridge so cars will not be waiting on the bridge. This closure could be for a few hours. St. Mary's County Sheriff's Deputies are reconstructing a double fatal motor vehicle accident involving two cars and a motorcycle. The accident occurred at 11:10PM Monday June 6th.
> 
> According to witnesses at the scene, one of the cars involved was racing with the motorcycle. At least one other witness reported the racing vehicles had passed at least one vehicle on the bridge and multiple vehicles on Rt 4.



when will people learn that they are not indestructible....in a blink of an eye your life could be over......


----------



## Danzig

One person was just arrested for DUI/DWI for the accident.


----------



## Agilemom

*Any movement?*

Sounds like a horrible accident....Is there anyone out there who knows when they might start moving traffic? My husband has been sitting there for 1.5 hours! Yikes!


----------



## Danzig

Agilemom said:


> Is there anyone out there who knows when they might start moving traffic? My husband has been sitting there for 1.5 hours! Yikes!



Just a guess, but I would say closed till 4 or 5am. That is just a guess based on what I saw tonight and past accidents. This accident from start to finish was spread out 150 yards or so.


----------



## Danzig

blakecreek said:


> 2 hours+ to make an arrest??? must have have run away


First he was taken to hospital.


----------



## Agilemom

So hubby might as well take the other bridge.


----------



## afjess1989

danzig said:


> just a guess, but i would say closed till 4 or 5am. That is just a guess based on what i saw tonight and past accidents. This accident from start to finish was spread out 150 yards or so.



wow......


----------



## Danzig

afjess1989 said:


> wow......



Sounds like the road could be opening one way at a time soon, not sure, still listening.


----------



## Danzig

CHARTWeb Live Traffic in Flash Streaming Format Video Page


----------



## mAlice

blakecreek said:


> can't they tell the people in traffic that? or do they just let everyone sit there wondering what is going on?  there has to be some way to communicate what is going on to the poor folks sitting there in the dark?



Two people are dead, and you're concerned about "the poor people" sitting in their dry, comfortable cars, who are going to be late.  At least they'll be home eventually.  The people who died will never be home again.

tsk tsk


----------



## mAlice

blakecreek said:


> irresponsible for them to abandon the site with cars waiting with dead batteries in the road



Wrong.  It's irresponsible of the vehicle owners to not maintain their vehicles.


----------



## somdfunguy

mAlice said:


> Two people are dead, and you're concerned about "the poor people" sitting in their dry, comfortable cars, who are going to be late.  At least they'll be home eventually.  The people who died will never be home again.
> 
> tsk tsk



Now this thread isn't the place for it but I would like to see a discussion about the pros and cons of the reconstructing of an accident. I didn't now anyone still did at the scene reconstruction until I moved here.


----------



## SoMDGirl42

somdfunguy said:


> Now this thread isn't the place for it but I would like to see a discussion about the pros and cons of the reconstructing of an accident. I didn't now anyone still did at the scene reconstruction until I moved here.



They have to determine who is at fault


----------



## ICit

SoMDGirl42 said:


> They have to determine who is at fault



... and also to document all info in case they charge someone with a serious crime....


----------



## 1stGenSMIB

This accident really sucked. But all fatalities do. I live nearby, was in bed, and heard it & ran down the street to help. 

I am continually amazed at how many in this area are EMT's/CPR trained. There were several already on the scene attending to the people that ended up not making and I was there in about 2 minutes.


----------



## ICit

sastanley said:


> This accident really sucked. But all fatalities do. I live nearby, was in bed, and heard it & ran down the street to help.
> 
> I am continually amazed at how many in this area are EMT's/CPR trained. There were several already on the scene attending to the people that ended up not making and I was there in about 2 minutes.



... i want to thank you for getting out of bed and running to the accident to try to help in any way you could....  Thank you so much


----------



## somdfunguy

Wirelessly posted

All around the country they are able to determine fault without recreating accidents at the scene. It would seem safer to document evidence, clear the accident, and recreate in an office somewhere.


----------



## ICit

somdfunguy said:


> Wirelessly posted
> 
> All around the country they are able to determine fault without recreating accidents at the scene. It would seem safer to document evidence, clear the accident, and recreate in an office somewhere.



there are time were they do have to do survey work, take points by gps at that time as evidence will change as the weather changes.


Im sure if one of your loved ones passed in an accident... you would want everything set in stone to nail the person responsible for their death.


----------



## MMDad

somdfunguy said:


> Wirelessly posted
> 
> All around the country they are able to determine fault without recreating accidents at the scene. It would seem safer to document evidence, clear the accident, and recreate in an office somewhere.



Some call it "recreation" but is usually evidence collection. It's not like they brought in two cars and a motorcycle and raced to see how they crash.

In a crash like this where the debris is scattered, it's dark, the weather sucks, and they're dealing with the dead people, it's easy to see how it can take a couple of hours to do a thorough job documenting the scene.

I've seen this all over the country - what makes you think it's only done here?


----------



## somdfunguy

ICit said:


> there are time were they do have to do survey work, take points by gps at that time as evidence will change as the weather changes.
> 
> 
> Im sure if one of your loved ones passed in an accident... you would want everything set in stone to nail the person responsible for their death.



Don't misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about it. I am seriously asking about how the process is done, has it ever been reevaluated, or is this just the way it has always been and no reason to change.  This was something that I wasn't aware still existed until I moved here.


----------



## somdfunguy

MMDad said:


> Some call it "recreation" but is usually evidence collection. It's not like they brought in two cars and a motorcycle and raced to see how they crash.
> 
> In a crash like this where the debris is scattered, it's dark, the weather sucks, and they're dealing with the dead people, it's easy to see how it can take a couple of hours to do a thorough job documenting the scene.
> 
> I've seen this all over the country - what makes you think it's only done here?



I made an update to my post but it timed out asking if the word "recreation" is just throwing me off.  What you have said is what I have experienced - evidence collection and documentation.

In other places there has always been an accident investigation team. Sounds like it is the same thing.


----------



## ICit

somdfunguy said:


> Don't misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about it. I am seriously asking about how the process is done, has it ever been reevaluated, or is this just the way it has always been and no reason to change.  This was something that I wasn't aware still existed until I moved here.


----------



## SoMDGirl42

somdfunguy said:


> I made an update to my post but it timed out asking if the word "recreation" is just throwing me off.  What you have said is what I have experienced - evidence collection and documentation.
> 
> In other places there has always been an accident investigation team. Sounds like it is the same thing.



They don't call it "recreation" they call it accident reconstruction, not that the name of it means a hill of beans, but I do think you are correct in assuming your experience with the "accident investigation team" is the same thing. 

First they have to clear the scene of patients. When a fatality is involved, the body is usually still on the scene for several hours while they begin the investigation. They take pictures, measurements, get witness statements, wait for the ME or folks to transport the body/bodies. Collect evidence, and many times it's dark and it's very tedious work. When all is said and done, they still have remove the vehicles and the debrey from the road, spray down body fluids or car fluids. And that's not even all of it. Sometimes they come back for further measurements etc. It's a lot of work.


----------



## MMDad

jazz lady said:


> From Southern Maryland News Net:
> 
> 
> 
> Route 4 Shut Down Due to Fatal Accident | Southern Maryland News Net



Names there now.


----------



## vraiblonde

So they were all traveling south on Rt. 4, Jeep/bike/Taurus in that order, and the bike rear ended the Jeep, causing the driver to lose control, then the Taurus swerved to avoid the bike and hit the Jeep?


----------



## MMDad

vraiblonde said:


> So they were all traveling south on Rt. 4, Jeep/bike/Taurus in that order, and the bike rear ended the Jeep, causing the driver to lose control, then the Taurus swerved to avoid the bike and hit the Jeep?



That's what I understand, but sounds more like the bike came up on the jeep at high speed rather than just following it.


----------



## SoMDGirl42

vraiblonde said:


> So they were all traveling south on Rt. 4, Jeep/bike/Taurus in that order, and the bike rear ended the Jeep, causing the driver to lose control, then the Taurus swerved to avoid the bike and hit the Jeep?



according to the article, that is how I read it also. I do not believe the Jeep was involved in the race between the motorcycle and the taurus though.


----------



## ICit

SoMDGirl42 said:


> according to the article, that is how I read it also. I do not believe the Jeep was involved in the race between the motorcycle and the taurus though.





so i dont think we have the full story yet..

T & P to all


----------



## kbeachcat123

I knew the girl who was killed.  She had four kids.  Sad Sad Sad.


----------



## kbeachcat123

Double Fatal Accident on Route 4

Here's the article.  Truly messed up my day.


----------



## Katelin

somdfunguy said:


> Don't misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about it. I am seriously asking about how the process is done, has it ever been reevaluated, or is this just the way it has always been and no reason to change.  This was something that I wasn't aware still existed until I moved here.



In the "old"  ( 1970's) days, we did this process by hand...no computers, no GPS, no calculators.
We would establish point of contact, debris drop and spread, take exact measurements from landmarks, usually telephone poles as they had a location marker, triangulate, and use these points to draw detailed charts of the accident. Weather conditions were noted, as test skids could be laid to determine approx speed prior to impact.

Accident reconstruction is not only evidence collection but physics. 
You cant change the physics of cause and effect. 

Sometimes there is a fault in the roadway that caused the accident, and the results from the AR report can causes road improvements, changes in the road surface, improvements in vehicle safety, changes in those factors that could have prevented an accident. 
Northwestern University used to be the premier institution for learning AR. I was trained by another offer who was trained there. I still have my book and a nifty template used to calculate speed, friction factor, etc. 
I enjoyed the mechanics/physics/math of Accident Reconstruction, but not the causative event. 

But in this case, I doubt anything would have changed the outcome of this accident as you cant remove or fix "stupid" from the equation.


----------



## Roman

kbeachcat123 said:


> Double Fatal Accident on Route 4
> 
> Here's the article.  Truly messed up my day.


KBeachCat, please check your PM. Thanks


----------



## Roman

Roman said:


> KBeachCat, please check your PM. Thanks


Hi KBeachcat, I got my answer, so no need to respond. Thank you.


----------



## DoWhat

Roman said:


> Hi KBeachcat, I got my answer, so no need to respond. Thank you.



What was your question and what was the answer?


----------



## Roman

DoWhat said:


> What was your question and what was the answer?


The Driver of the Motorcycle was a Childhood Friend of my Son's.


----------



## Katelin

Roman said:


> The Driver of the Motorcycle was a Childhood Friend of my Son's.



Sorry Roman. :sad:


----------



## MMDad

Katelin said:


> But in this case, I doubt anything would have changed the outcome of this accident as you cant remove or fix "stupid" from the equation.



How do you know "stupid" caused this crash? Why are you such a hateful negative biatch?


----------



## vraiblonde

MMDad said:


> How do you know "stupid" caused this crash?



What else would you call it?


----------



## beachcat

i feel bad for the girl that was on the bike.  she probably had no control over what the driver was doing.  four kids.  sad.


----------



## desertrat

MMDad said:


> How do you know "stupid" caused this crash? Why are you such a hateful negative biatch?



What would you call riding so fast that you can't slow enough when you come up on another vehicle?  In the dark and rainy, to make it worse.


----------



## 1stGenSMIB

desertrat...just a weather conditions clarification: dark yes, rainy...not yet. The area was dry at the time of the accident. It did not start raining until I was walking home from the accident scene at approximately midnight when the officers were taping off and beginning their accident reconstruction efforts.

As far as dark, most of the intersections on that stretch of Route 4 do have a 'street light' hanging over one corner of the intersection, but this did not happen right at the intersection, and the intersecting road did not appear to me to have anything to do with the incident itself. As anyone that travels that road regularly is aware, other than being a wide road with mostly good shoulders, it is dark. 

Although we have no clarification, there seems to be suggestion that speed & carelessness was a factor in this accident. I agree with the poster above that the woman that was killed had little or no control over the situation other than to yell at the motorcycle driver. However, that is a chance you take anytime you are a passenger in any motor vehicle, whether a tandem bicycle or a Suburban. I can tell you from being there, that everyone worked their ass off to try and save both of them.


----------



## Roman

No matter what happened, it is sad for all involved. I re-read the article, and didn't see where "racing" was a factor in this Crash. No matter who did what, they either paid, or are paying for this split-second mistake. The hard part is going to be having to tell my Son. He is on his way to his new Duty Station from California as I type, he's driving Cross Country.


----------



## MMDad

desertrat said:


> What would you call riding so fast that you can't slow enough when you come up on another vehicle?  In the dark and rainy, to make it worse.



I'd say that we don't know the facts. There are a lot of rumors about racing, but we don't know if that's true. By looking at the skid marks, I could just as easily believe that he was travelling at a reasonable speed, became distracted, and did not have time to react. 

Re-read Stinkpens statement. She said that you can't fix stupid. She's not saying that someone made a stupid mistake, which I would agree with, it's saying that the person who made that stupid mistake was so stupid that this crash could not have been prevented.

Either way, jumping in only 16 hours after the crash to call someone terminally stupid based on incomplete facts and rumors is negative, hateful, and biatchy, isn't it?


----------



## vraiblonde

MMDad said:


> Either way, jumping in only 16 hours after the crash to call someone terminally stupid based on incomplete facts and rumors is negative, hateful, and biatchy, isn't it?



Let me tell you what I think is more negative, hateful and biatchy, and that is to drive recklessly and endanger others.

It's always a shame when someone loses their life through poor choices and bad decision-making, but what's worse is to be toodling along, minding your own business, and have this person come along and change your life for you.


----------



## kbeachcat123

*Responded*

Responded back via PM.


----------



## Hank

MMDad said:


> Either way, jumping in only 16 hours after the crash to call someone terminally stupid based on incomplete facts and rumors is negative, hateful, and biatchy, isn't it?



ehhh... that's Stinkpen's (Katelin) M.O... She did the same exact thing when the teenager died on Clarke's Landing Rd.


----------



## 1stGenSMIB

Good point vrai...from what I understand the girls in the Cherokee were minding their own business, and next thing you know, they are launched over the hill into the field between the red barn & the end of Shady Mile Drive. :-/
I didn't even know there was a vehicle over there until someone told me..er...because the grass is so freaking tall!!

I am still shaken about this whole thing, and I feel terrible for those that were lost, and those that knew them. Talking about it does help some...(and I do not mean here on this silly forum.)

One of the things I did yesterday to grow from being involved in this incident was to go and get a First Aid & CPR certification.


----------



## desertrat

MMDad said:


> I'd say that we don't know the facts. There are a lot of rumors about racing, but we don't know if that's true. By looking at the skid marks, I could just as easily believe that he was travelling at a reasonable speed, became distracted, and did not have time to react.
> 
> Re-read Stinkpens statement. She said that you can't fix stupid. She's not saying that someone made a stupid mistake, which I would agree with, it's saying that the person who made that stupid mistake was so stupid that this crash could not have been prevented.
> 
> Either way, jumping in only 16 hours after the crash to call someone terminally stupid based on incomplete facts and rumors is negative, hateful, and biatchy, isn't it?



Don't claim to know the facts. If he let himself be distracted while riding long enough to miss the fact he was coming up on a car I would say that just isn't terribly bright wouldn't you? I have no idea if they were racing or not. Fact is though that the car behind him didn't have time to stop either. Did they both get distracted or do you think they may have been going too fast? I can't think of another scenario unless the SUV had no lights on or suddenly pulled out in front of the bike.


----------



## kwillia

sastanley said:


> One of the things I did yesterday to grow from being involved in this incident was to go and get a First Aid & CPR certification.


----------



## MMDad

desertrat said:


> Don't claim to know the facts. If he let himself be distracted while riding long enough to miss the fact he was coming up on a car I would say that just isn't terribly bright wouldn't you? I have no idea if they were racing or not. Fact is though that the car behind him didn't have time to stop either. Did they both get distracted or do you think they may have been going too fast? I can't think of another scenario unless the SUV had no lights on or suddenly pulled out in front of the bike.



By what I've read, I do agree that somebody probably did something incredibly stupid. I am in no way defending the person(s) who caused the crash. My only point is that Stinkpen's comment was right in line with her normal negative, hateful, biatchy self.


----------



## desertrat

MMDad said:


> By what I've read, I do agree that somebody probably did something incredibly stupid. I am in no way defending the person(s) who caused the crash. My only point is that Stinkpen's comment was right in line with her normal negative, hateful, biatchy self.



Gotcha.


----------



## Roman

desertrat said:


> Don't claim to know the facts. If he let himself be distracted while riding long enough to miss the fact he was coming up on a car I would say that just isn't terribly bright wouldn't you? I have no idea if they were racing or not. Fact is though that the car behind him didn't have time to stop either. Did they both get distracted or do you think they may have been going too fast? I can't think of another scenario unless the SUV had no lights on or suddenly pulled out in front of the bike.


One of the articles I read, said that someone at the Scene was arrested for DUI/DWI, so I am ASSUMING there is a possibility that the Car behind the Bike just MIGHT have slammed the Bike in to the Jeep. Either way, it does sound like the Jeep was the Innocent Party here.


----------



## MMDad

Roman said:


> One of the articles I read, said that someone at the Scene was arrested for DUI/DWI, so I am ASSUMING there is a possibility that the Car behind the Bike just MIGHT have slammed the Bike in to the Jeep. Either way, it does sound like the Jeep was the Innocent Party here.


 Double Fatal Accident on Route 4



> Mr. Cornelison swerved to avoid the motorcycle and collided with the Jeep Cherokee.





> One of the drivers involved in this accident was arrested for DUI/DWI. At this time SMNEWSNET can only confirm that the arrested driver was in a car that had collided with another car. It is unknown if he made any contact with the motorcycle.


----------



## Railroad

WOW.  Wait awhile, okay?  Listen and learn.  We haven't an idea of what happened there.  Jeep slows significantly (thanks to the new traffic light?), bike tries to stop but can't pull off the challenge, and then the Taurus hits the Jeep. Bike is meanwhile going for parts on the other side of the road.  And its riders are airborne.  So VERY sad and worthy of sensitive treatment post-mortem.


----------



## glhs837

Railroad said:


> WOW.  Wait awhile, okay?  Listen and learn.  We haven't an idea of what happened there.  Jeep slows significantly (thanks to the new traffic light?), *bike tries to stop but can't pull off the challenge,* and then the Taurus hits the Jeep. Bike is meanwhile going for parts on the other side of the road.  And its riders are airborne.  So VERY sad and worthy of sensitive treatment post-mortem.



If the bike couldn't pull off the stop, the rider was either out of skill, attention, or  brakes.  It's incumbent upon the rider to not follow so closely that a cage can take you by surprise, and be cognizant of the increase in stopping distance wrought by a passenger. And the bike did hit the Jeep, with enough force that it kicked the Jeep sideways. That speaks volumes to the amount of kinetic energy they Harley was packing, and since it is mass limited, that energy has to come from velocity. 




> The Harley Davidson motorcycle was being followed by a 2003 Ford Taurus passenger car, operated by Richard Kenneth Cornelison, 27 of Lusby, Maryland. The motorcycle approached a 2002 Jeep Cherokee, operated by Jacklyn Marie Cox, 21 of St. Leonard, Maryland with passenger, Katelyn Ruth Wilt, 21 of St. Leonard, Maryland in the vehicle. The Jeep Cherokee was also traveling south on Route 4.
> 
> Mr. Heller applied brakes; however, *still collided with the rear of the Jeep Cherokee. The collision ejected both occupants of the motorcycle. After being struck, the Jeep Cherokee skidded sideways.* Mr. Cornelison swerved to avoid the motorcycle and collided with the Jeep Cherokee.


----------



## Roman

Who at the scene was arrested for DUI/DWI? Certainly..it was NOT the Dead Man! Nor was it anyone in the Jeep! So how can anyone NOT see that there is a POSSIBILITY the Taurus was NOT at fault?? Not saying it was his fault...just sayin! We can ALL sit here, and point fingers, but it doesn't make it  the correct  answer as to what happened. If it was the Bike's fault, he & his Friend paid the Ultimate Price.


----------



## kbeachcat123

According to this link:  Double Fatal Accident on Route 4

Richard Cornelius, the driver of the Taurus, was arrested for DUI.


----------



## RoseRed

kbeachcat123 said:


> According to this link:  Double Fatal Accident on Route 4
> 
> Richard Cornelius, the driver of the Taurus, was arrested for DUI.


----------



## Danzig

Just throwing this out there.

What if, what if the guy in the Taurus was chasing the bike... 

Chasing the bike to do harm to someone...

What if the Taurus was not owned by Cornelison, but by Holly Hope Fulwood, the female on the back of the bike.

And yes Richard Cornelison, the driver of the Taurus, was arrested for DUI. He might not have been "charged" yet, but he was arrested. It could be that you have to wait for a blood kit to come back before a person be charged.


----------



## mAlice

Danzig said:


> *Just throwing this out there.*
> 
> What if, what if the guy in the Taurus was chasing the bike...
> 
> Chasing the bike to do harm to someone...
> 
> What if the Taurus was not owned by Cornelison, but by Holly Hope Fulwood, the female on the back of the bike.
> 
> And yes Richard Cornelison, the driver of the Taurus, was arrested for DUI. He might not have been "charged" yet, but he was arrested. It could be that you have to wait for a blood kit to come back before a person be charged.



Now, why would you do that?


----------



## RoseRed

Danzig said:


> Just throwing this out there.
> 
> What if, what if the guy in the Taurus was chasing the bike...
> 
> Chasing the bike to do harm to someone...
> 
> What if the Taurus was not owned by Cornelison, but by Holly Hope Fulwood, the female on the back of the bike.
> 
> And yes Richard Cornelison, the driver of the Taurus, was arrested for DUI. He might not have been "charged" yet, but he was arrested. It could be that you have to wait for a blood kit to come back before a person be charged.



That's quite a theory...


----------



## ICit




----------



## MMDad

Danzig said:


> Just throwing this out there.
> 
> What if, what if the guy in the Taurus was chasing the bike...
> 
> Chasing the bike to do harm to someone...
> 
> What if the Taurus was not owned by Cornelison, but by Holly Hope Fulwood, the female on the back of the bike.
> 
> And yes Richard Cornelison, the driver of the Taurus, was arrested for DUI. He might not have been "charged" yet, but he was arrested. It could be that you have to wait for a blood kit to come back before a person be charged.



That sounds an awful lot like 2nd degree murder, doesn't it?


----------



## Danzig

mAlice said:


> Now, why would you do that?





Danzig said:


> According to witnesses at the scene, one of the cars involved was racing with the motorcycle. At least one other witness reported the racing vehicles had passed at least one vehicle on the bridge and multiple vehicles on Rt 4.



Because it could explain why witnesses said they were racing, it could have been a chase, and not a race. And then we would need to look at the driver of the bike in a different light.


----------



## SoMDGirl42

Danzig said:


> Just throwing this out there.
> 
> What if, what if the guy in the Taurus was chasing the bike...
> 
> Chasing the bike to do harm to someone...



If that's the case, he succeeded in his mission, both of them on the bike are now dead. Hope he's happy and proud of himself! 

Karma is a biatch. Now he gets to live with the sight of two people dying in front of his face for his stupidity.


----------



## Hank

Danzig said:


> Because it could explain why witnesses said they were racing, it could have been a chase, and not a race. And then we would need to look at the driver of the bike in a different light.



Well, obviously you have the tag number and did a search...


----------



## Roman

Danzig said:


> Because it could explain why witnesses said they were racing, it could have been a chase, and not a race. And then we would need to look at the driver of the bike in a different light.


Thank you!


----------



## Roman

Roman said:


> Thank you!


Again, I am not saying that I am right, but if the Taurus Driver was DUI/DWI, doesn't it automatically make him the guilty Party? I know that I am grasping at Straws with this, because I knew the Harley Driver, and don't like to think it was his fault.....


----------



## MMDad

Roman said:


> Again, I am not saying that I am right, but if the Taurus Driver was DUI/DWI, doesn't it automatically make him the guilty Party? I know that I am grasping at Straws with this, because I knew the Harley Driver, and don't like to think it was his fault.....



No, it doesn't "automatically" make you guilty of anything. Both drivers, or even all three drivers could still be at fault. If the Taurus driver did nothing to cause the crash, he is not automatically guilty just because he was DUI.


----------



## Railroad

Whatever actually happened, I think that nothing anybody figures out will bring back the two young folks who died.  I don't think it's possible to engineer roads (or anything else) that completely compensate for the human factor.  There have been some thought-provoking posts worthy of a TV series here - and they may be very tragically true - as well as at least one post that addressed the physics involved with the accident.  Although I think we all want to know right away what happened, I guess we'll have to wait while the experts do their best with what they have.  I sure hope we can get the outcome whenever they're done.  Why?  Primarily to kill curiosity, but also to set things a little straighter regarding the people involved.

Having said all that, I'm still wondering my way through it as some of the rest of you are.  So here are a few of my own thoughts.

Because the site is on my way to and from work I've driven through it a few times and done my best to catch what I can visually without slowing down or looking away from the road for too long.  It's remarkable that the skid marks are all short, and mostly concentrated in an area between northbound and southbound lanes.  Also, the length of the area that was closed off for the wreck seems short.  The shortness of skidmarks and of the crash site make me wonder what the speed might have been (lower than one might think?).  It would also be useful in conjecturing stuff to know if the rain had started yet when the accident occurred.

The post about the Taurus being registered to the female bike rider was intriguing.  I don't know if it's true or not, but it's certainly a factor.  Of course, maybe she was too drunk to drive and a fellow offered to drive the car to wherever they were headed so she could have it to go to work in the morning (or something).


----------



## glhs837

Young folks? Depnds on your age, but 37 and 32 are not spring chickens, and well into the age of reason. As to why push to know, when it wont bring anyone back? Same reason we investigate aircraft crashes, to hopefully prevent another incident of the same type. 

Speeds could be lower than that stretch normally runs, I suppose, but even at legal speeds, a Harley would be hard pressed to alter the trajectory of the Jeep, I think.


----------



## desertrat

Roman said:


> Again, I am not saying that I am right, but if the Taurus Driver was DUI/DWI, doesn't it automatically make him the guilty Party? I know that I am grasping at Straws with this, because I knew the Harley Driver, and don't like to think it was his fault.....



Oh he is in trouble, but just because he was over the limit does not make him the cause. He could have had three beers. No telling at this point. Maybe the guy on the bike was running off with his girl friend.


----------



## Railroad

glhs837 said:


> Young folks? Depnds on your age, but 37 and 32 are not spring chickens, and well into the age of reason. As to why push to know, when it wont bring anyone back? Same reason we investigate aircraft crashes, to hopefully prevent another incident of the same type.
> 
> Speeds could be lower than that stretch normally runs, I suppose, but even at legal speeds, a Harley would be hard pressed to alter the trajectory of the Jeep, I think.



Young is a relative term.  Do you have any relatives?  And yes, we all want to know what happened.


----------



## Roman

Well, I could be wrong, but I was of the thinking that  if you were drinking, you shouldn't be out on the Road. Just like if someone Rear-Ends you, that means that if they weren't following too close, the Crash wouldn't have happened. Again, NOT saying it was the Taurus Driver's fault, but if it WAS he that was Lit, there is a possibility that Poor Judgement on his part may have caused the Crash. Maybe the Cyclist was looking in his rear-view mirror, at the taurus when he hit the Jeep.? If I find anything out with his Parents, and if it is OK with them..I will let you know when the Recon Team comes in with their verdict.


----------



## DoWhat

Roman said:


> Well, I could be wrong, but I was of the thinking that  if you were drinking, you shouldn't be out on the Road. Just like if someone Rear-Ends you, that means that if they weren't following too close, the Crash wouldn't have happened.



I know a person who had 3 beers and got rear ended at a stop sign. It was his fault and he was arrested.

Now that is BS.


----------



## glhs837

Railroad said:


> Young is a relative term. * Do you have any relatives? * And yes, we all want to know what happened.



Yep, sure do, and the relevance of that?


----------



## MMDad

DoWhat said:


> I know a person who had 3 beers and got rear ended at a stop sign. It was his fault and he was arrested.
> 
> Now that is BS.



The crash was his fault? Or the fact he was over the limit and had the bad luck to get rear ended made him get caught?


----------



## Roman

There are pictures of the scene, that show the road was dry. It hadn't started raining yet.


----------



## tiffy108

*Very Sad*



Danzig said:


> Just throwing this out there.
> 
> What if, what if the guy in the Taurus was chasing the bike...
> 
> Chasing the bike to do harm to someone...
> 
> What if the Taurus was not owned by Cornelison, but by Holly Hope Fulwood, the female on the back of the bike.
> 
> And yes Richard Cornelison, the driver of the Taurus, was arrested for DUI. He might not have been "charged" yet, but he was arrested. It could be that you have to wait for a blood kit to come back before a person be charged.



Pretty good theory actually...I know both Holly and Richie.  I don't think he was chasing to do harm but most likely was chasing them.  They dated for quite some time.  I'm pretty sure he wasn't driving her vehicle though.  Things get out of hand when you live your life a certain way and it's unfortunate that lives were lost.  She was a single mother of 4 and it's very sad that something like this happened.  I pray that her family can get through this together and give those kids the best life possible.


----------



## frequentflier

The gentleman on the bike worked at the Subway in Solomons and seemed like a pretty nice guy. They have a donation jar out for his family. RIP, Porkchop.


----------



## RareBreed

frequentflier said:


> The gentleman on the bike worked at the Subway in Solomons and seemed like a pretty nice guy. They have a donation jar out for his family. RIP, Porkchop.



We were in there last Friday and saw that jar. I didn't know he was involved in this accident. My youngest asked if he could donate the change from our meal to the fund.


----------



## Roman

frequentflier said:


> The gentleman on the bike worked at the Subway in Solomons and seemed like a pretty nice guy. They have a donation jar out for his family. RIP, Porkchop.


Thanks FF. He was a pain in the butt as a kid, but in a GOOD way. Yes, he was very nice, and would give you the shirt off his back. We'll never forget him.


----------

