# Military Divorce / Former Spouse Protection Act questions ?



## Rane

Hi everyone, 

I hesitated to post this here but would really like to hear other womens' experiences and advice if you may have been in a similar situation and are willing to share with me. My husband and I have married for 32 years, but have been separated for about 8 years, He retired after 20 years in the Navy a few years before we separated. We have lived apart since the separation. Our only child is grown so there would be no child support involved.  I have put off filing for divorce for years now, I really cannot afford legal fees, etc... esp since I went thru breast cancer treatment 4 years ago. I have gone to the legal office on base but they are not much help in giving me more specific info. I need more specifics, details on what I need to do.  I  have worked full time since we moved to Maryland in 2002  but do not make a lot of money. I pretty much live paycheck to paycheck,  I cannot afford to pay a lawyer a retainer or any legal fees  to file for divorce, but I really feel that I should file now and use the Former Spouse Protection Act to my advantage esp if I have a reocurrrence. At this point in my life, I am 52,  I need more financial stability and receiving some sort of payment from my husband would give me that.  I will probably be trying to pay off my medical bills the rest of my life,  let me tell you, even with insurance,  out of pocket costs for cancer treatments are expensive. And I have more than the average number of checkups in my future to ensure I am still cancer free and to monitor for any reocurrrence. I was shocked when some of my doctors told me even with Tricare I was underinsured ( I cannot afford a second source of insurance thru my employer ) Until the breast cancer I had always been healthy.

If anyone reading this has " been there, done that " and would not mind telling me what you did and how, I would really appreciate it. Private messages or emails would be fine too. 

Rane


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## PeoplesElbow

https://books.google.com/books?id=t...DgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=20/10/10 spouse&f=false


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## itsbob

Rane said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I hesitated to post this here but would really like to hear other womens' experiences and advice if you may have been in a similar situation and are willing to share with me. My husband and I have married for 32 years, but have been separated for about 8 years, He retired after 20 years in the Navy a few years before we separated. We have lived apart since the separation. Our only child is grown so there would be no child support involved.  I have put off filing for divorce for years now, I really cannot afford legal fees, etc... esp since I went thru breast cancer treatment 4 years ago. I have gone to the legal office on base but they are not much help in giving me more specific info. I need more specifics, details on what I need to do.  I  have worked full time since we moved to Maryland in 2002  but do not make a lot of money. I pretty much live paycheck to paycheck,  I cannot afford to pay a lawyer a retainer or any legal fees  to file for divorce, but I really feel that I should file now and use the Former Spouse Protection Act to my advantage esp if I have a reocurrrence. At this point in my life, I am 52,  I need more financial stability and receiving some sort of payment from my husband would give me that.  I will probably be trying to pay off my medical bills the rest of my life,  let me tell you, even with insurance,  out of pocket costs for cancer treatments are expensive. And I have more than the average number of checkups in my future to ensure I am still cancer free and to monitor for any reocurrrence. I was shocked when some of my doctors told me even with Tricare I was underinsured ( I cannot afford a second source of insurance thru my employer ) Until the breast cancer I had always been healthy.
> 
> If anyone reading this has " been there, done that " and would not mind telling me what you did and how, I would really appreciate it. Private messages or emails would be fine too.
> 
> Rane



Check online for Supplemental Insurance. It covers just about everything Tricare doesnt.. we bought ours through ASI..  about $150 per pay period (for a family)..  more than worth it if you need extended medical care or have recuring medical issues.


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## PeoplesElbow

I suggest joining AARP and getting their indemnity supplemental insurance (it is cheap).  Both my parents had it, my dads insurance covered everything but he still got like $120 a day he was in the hospital paid direct to him, he was in the hospital quite a bit with cancer and it helped them out alot.


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## Bann

PeoplesElbow said:


> I suggest joining AARP and getting their indemnity supplemental insurance (it is cheap).  Both my parents had it, my dads insurance covered everything but he still got like $120 a day he was in the hospital paid direct to him, he was in the hospital quite a bit with cancer and it helped them out alot.



  I was going to suggest this, too.  I don't know how expensive it is (or not) these days, but my mom was an AARP member and had gotten a supplemental from them.  (She had Tricare for Life insurance)


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## PeoplesElbow

Bann said:


> I was going to suggest this, too.  I don't know how expensive it is (or not) these days, but my mom was an AARP member and had gotten a supplemental from them.  (She had Tricare for Life insurance)



My mom had it till she turned 65 this year, there were quite a few levels, the one she had was less than $20/month.

http://www.aarphealthcare.com/insurance/hospital-indemnity-insurance.html


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## Lurk

Legalzoom.com


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## acommondisaster

I have a pretty good feeling that she's already done the research, what she's really looking for is someone who's been through a divorce with a military person and wants to know the personal side of Spouse Protection Act (ie retirement benefits, health coverage through her exhusband).   If she says she's working pay check to pay check, $150 for supplemental insurance is probably out of the realm of possibilities. Google's great, we can all google, but sometimes what a person really wants is info from someone who's been there. Legalzoom, works for some things, but she could jeopardize her entitlements if she screws it up; she needs a lawyer.  Does anyone know if she can use a JAG officer to help with her divorce? 

I don't know what she's entitled to as far as insurance coverage from her estranged spouse, but unless something's changed, she is entitled to half his retirement pay, unless he's had it computed as disability pay. She needs someone to tell her a good court and lawyer who understands the division of retired pay. Maybe someone in this forum can point her in the right direction from experience.


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## edinsomd

If she's not divorced, she's still a military spouse, even retired. She should be eligible a for Military ID card, Tricare, and access to the Exchange, Commissary, and legal assistance.


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## acommondisaster

edinsomd said:


> If she's not divorced, she's still a military spouse, even retired. She should be eligible a for Military ID card, Tricare, and access to the Exchange, Commissary, and legal assistance.



I was wondering the same thing. No doubt her ID's expired, so she'd have to figure that part out.


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## Rane

edinsomd said:


> If she's not divorced, she's still a military spouse, even retired. She should be eligible a for Military ID card, Tricare, and access to the Exchange, Commissary, and legal assistance.



Thank you all very much for the advice, I really appreciate it.  Yes, I still have Tricare, get my MIL ID Renewed every few years, go to the commisary, etc... and yes I have been to the legal office , they mean well but are not much help, they advise me to retain a lawyer and directed me to the courthouse, where they gave me a stack of legal papers full of jargon I need to research. My husband is not disabled but he is currently unemployed ( he calls it retired lol )  There is no way I can afford a lawyer. I was hoping to hear from a former military spouse who has gone thru the divorce process and would not mind telling me her experience.


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## acommondisaster

Rane said:


> Thank you all very much for the advice, I really appreciate it.  Yes, I still have Tricare, get my MIL ID Renewed every few years, go to the commisary, etc... and yes I have been to the legal office , they mean well but are not much help, they advise me to retain a lawyer and directed me to the courthouse, where they gave me a stack of legal papers full of jargon I need to research. My husband is not disabled but he is currently unemployed ( he calls it retired lol )  There is no way I can afford a lawyer. I was hoping to hear from a former military spouse who has gone thru the divorce process and would not mind telling me her experience.



Havent been through it, but thought I'd throw in my fairly worthless 2 cents. It doesnt matter if he's unemployed or not, you are legally entitled to half his retirement pay. Have you made inquiries to lawyers, or do you just assume you can't afford it? Just make sure any lawyer to get involved with knows military spouse entitlements.


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## Bustem' Down

acommondisaster said:


> Havent been through it, but thought I'd throw in my fairly worthless 2 cents. It doesnt matter if he's unemployed or not, you are legally entitled to half his retirement pay. Have you made inquiries to lawyers, or do you just assume you can't afford it? Just make sure any lawyer to get involved with knows military spouse entitlements.



I think she's only legally entitled to it when she gets divorced.  Since they are still married it's "their" money and he's just not letting her spend any.


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## Bann

As others have said, it's best to get an attorney who is experienced in this type of divorce.  Also, no matter what you may or may not be entitled to in the way of his military retirement pay if you divorce- I think that once he dies you will lose it.


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## Bustem' Down

Bann said:


> As others have said, it's best to get an attorney who is experienced in this type of divorce.  Also, no matter what you may or may not be entitled to in the way of his military retirement pay if you divorce- I think that once he dies you will lose it.



Yes.  The retirement pay is only around while he's alive.


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## Coventry17

That is incorrect.  SBP (Survivor Benefit Plan) can only be denied by the dependent spouse.  It is an election that has to be made PRIOR to retirement and it is funded by an 8% stipend paid off the top end of the pension.  If the couple divorces and the retired member dies, the surviving divorced spouse continues to receive her share of the pension until her death.  In the State of Maryland, the divorced spouse is entitled to half of the member's pension FOR THE PERIOD THAT THEY WERE MARRIED.  For example, if the member served 20 years and the couple was married for 10 of that, the divorced dependent is entitled to half of the pension accrued during that 10 year period.  If the pension is 50% of base pay (simplistic, but for the sake of argument), she would get 50% of 50%, or 25% of his pre-tax pension.  The retired member pays the entire tax burden of the total pension.  Once divorced, the dependent spouse will lose all other privileges, including TRICARE.  An attorney absolutely needs to be involved and the sooner, the better.  Most things can be negotiated between both sides prior to the finalization of the divorce, except for the pension (it is mandated by state law and non-negotiable).  You can negotiate health insurance coverage into the divorce agreement for a period of time or in perpetuity; however, if the retired member is enrolled in TRICARE (and why wouldn't he?), a non-dependent former spouse cannot be included in his plan.  Every case is unique and just because Sally got this when she divorced Steve doesn't mean you'll get the same thing; the judge can award you less...or more.  The bottom line is, bite the bullet and retain an attorney.


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## Bann

Coventry17 said:


> That is incorrect. * SBP (Survivor Benefit Plan) can only be denied by the dependent spouse. * It is an election that has to be made PRIOR to retirement and it is funded by an 8% stipend paid off the top end of the pension.  If the couple divorces and the retired member dies, the surviving divorced spouse continues to receive her share of the pension until her death.  In the State of Maryland, the divorced spouse is entitled to half of the member's pension FOR THE PERIOD THAT THEY WERE MARRIED.  For example, if the member served 20 years and the couple was married for 10 of that, the divorced dependent is entitled to half of the pension accrued during that 10 year period.  If the pension is 50% of base pay (simplistic, but for the sake of argument), she would get 50% of 50%, or 25% of his pre-tax pension.  The retired member pays the entire tax burden of the total pension.  Once divorced, the dependent spouse will lose all other privileges, including TRICARE.  An attorney absolutely needs to be involved and the sooner, the better.  Most things can be negotiated between both sides prior to the finalization of the divorce, except for the pension (it is mandated by state law and non-negotiable).  You can negotiate health insurance coverage into the divorce agreement for a period of time or in perpetuity; however, if the retired member is enrolled in TRICARE (and why wouldn't he?), a non-dependent former spouse cannot be included in his plan.  Every case is unique and just because Sally got this when she divorced Steve doesn't mean you'll get the same thing; the judge can award you less...or more.  The bottom line is, bite the bullet and retain an attorney.



SBP is completely different than the military retirement pay.  

She definitely needs to get the advice of an attorney.


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## Bustem' Down

Bann said:


> SBP is completely different than the military retirement pay.
> 
> She definitely needs to get the advice of an attorney.


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## Bustem' Down

Coventry17 said:


> That is incorrect.  SBP (Survivor Benefit Plan) can only be denied by the dependent spouse.  It is an election that has to be made PRIOR to retirement and it is funded by an 8% stipend paid off the top end of the pension.  If the couple divorces and the retired member dies, the surviving divorced spouse continues to receive her share of the pension until her death.  In the State of Maryland, the divorced spouse is entitled to half of the member's pension FOR THE PERIOD THAT THEY WERE MARRIED.  For example, if the member served 20 years and the couple was married for 10 of that, the divorced dependent is entitled to half of the pension accrued during that 10 year period.  If the pension is 50% of base pay (simplistic, but for the sake of argument), she would get 50% of 50%, or 25% of his pre-tax pension.  The retired member pays the entire tax burden of the total pension.  Once divorced, the dependent spouse will lose all other privileges, including TRICARE.  An attorney absolutely needs to be involved and the sooner, the better.  Most things can be negotiated between both sides prior to the finalization of the divorce, except for the pension (it is mandated by state law and non-negotiable).  You can negotiate health insurance coverage into the divorce agreement for a period of time or in perpetuity; however, if the retired member is enrolled in TRICARE (and why wouldn't he?), a non-dependent former spouse cannot be included in his plan.  Every case is unique and just because Sally got this when she divorced Steve doesn't mean you'll get the same thing; the judge can award you less...or more.  The bottom line is, bite the bullet and retain an attorney.



This is also all depending on that they are divorced.  If they are still legally married, as they are, she's only going to get what he will give her.  He would have had to sign up for the SBP before his retirement and pay into it and she wouldn't get any of that annuity until he's dead.  Once he's dead, the pension ceases to exist and she gets an annuity from the SBP based on what was paid in.

Basically, if you want any money, there's only two options.  Hire and attorney and get the divorce or move back in with him.  I suggest number one cause right now he has all the control.


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## Vince

Coventry17 said:


> *That is incorrect.  SBP (Survivor Benefit Plan) can only be denied by the dependent spouse. *



True, but only if she had it to begin with.  If her spouse didn't get her Survivor Benefit to begin with, it's too late now.  As for his retirement pay, any court awarded portion of his retirement will be discontinued after his death unless you have SBP.  This is not a set 50% either.  It is calculated based on the number of years you were married to him while he was in the military.  You had to be married to him at least 10 years during his time in service, if not, you're not entitled to any of his retirement.  Get a lawyer.


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## limblips

Vince said:


> True, but only if she had it to begin with.  If her spouse didn't get her Survivor Benefit to begin with, it's too late now.  As for his retirement pay, any court awarded portion of his retirement will be discontinued after his death unless you have SBP.  This is not a set 50% either.  It is calculated based on the number of years you were married to him while he was in the military.  You had to be married to him at least 10 years during his time in service, if not, you're not entitled to any of his retirement.  Get a lawyer.



Not true.  She CAN get a portion even if married less than 10 years.  10 years is the magic figure where she MUST be given a portion.  My lawyer explicitly explained to me that he would fight it (married 9 years) but I would be wasting my money since the courts always found for the female spouse.  You might win in some states but not many blue ones.


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## acommondisaster

Bann said:


> SBP is completely different than the military retirement pay.
> 
> She definitely needs to get the advice of an attorney.



Yup. Why's everyone getting wrapped around SURVIVOR benefit pay? He's still alive. She ought to get the SPOUSE benefits. And from the information in her first post, she's entitled. 

Lawyer up, little lady.


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## Vince

limblips said:


> Not true.  She CAN get a portion even if married less than 10 years.  10 years is the magic figure where she MUST be given a portion.  My lawyer explicitly explained to me that he would fight it (married 9 years) but I would be wasting my money since the courts always found for the female spouse.  You might win in some states but not many blue ones.


If a Maryland judge awards her any portion of his military retirement, he is in violation of the Uniformed Former Spouse Protection Act, but then the liberal Maryland judges could probably care less.



> For orders dividing retired pay as property to be enforced under the USFSPA, a member and former spouse must have been married to each other for 10 years or more during which the member performed at least 10 years of military service creditable towards retirement eligibility (the 10/10 rule).


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## PeoplesElbow

Vince said:


> If a Maryland judge awards her any portion of his military retirement, he is in violation of the Uniformed Former Spouse Protection Act, but then the liberal Maryland judges could probably care less.



I don't think that is the intent,  I think what that means is that the UFSPA  guarantees the division after 10 years.



> For orders dividing retired pay as property to be enforced under the USFSPA


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## Vince

PeoplesElbow said:


> I don't think that is the intent,  I think what that means is that the UFSPA  guarantees the division after 10 years.


It doesn't really matter because I have found through experience that the judges around here will side with the woman everytime, no matter what she does, and give her everything she wants.


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## PeoplesElbow

Vince said:


> It doesn't really matter because I have found through experience that the judges around here will side with the woman everytime, no matter what she does, and give her everything she wants.



Thought MD was a straight 50/50 split no matter what?


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## Gilligan

PeoplesElbow said:


> Thought MD was a straight 50/50 split no matter what?



That is essentially true. Despite what, unfortunately, most divorce attorneys might have you believe up front, MD law has, at its core,  a remarkably simple "no fault" approach/formula for settling divorces. It is the attorneys that muck it all up.


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## Vince

PeoplesElbow said:


> Thought MD was a straight 50/50 split no matter what?


BS.  You ever gone through a divorce being retired military with a cheating wife.  The judge found in favor of the wife.  So I say BS to the 50/50 crap.


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## somdforever

*You are correct, except*



Coventry17 said:


> That is incorrect.  SBP (Survivor Benefit Plan) can only be denied by the dependent spouse.  It is an election that has to be made PRIOR to retirement and it is funded by an 8% stipend paid off the top end of the pension.  If the couple divorces and the retired member dies, the surviving divorced spouse continues to receive her share of the pension until her death.  In the State of Maryland, the divorced spouse is entitled to half of the member's pension FOR THE PERIOD THAT THEY WERE MARRIED.  For example, if the member served 20 years and the couple was married for 10 of that, the divorced dependent is entitled to half of the pension accrued during that 10 year period.  If the pension is 50% of base pay (simplistic, but for the sake of argument), she would get 50% of 50%, or 25% of his pre-tax pension.  The retired member pays the entire tax burden of the total pension.  Once divorced, the dependent spouse will lose all other privileges, including TRICARE.  An attorney absolutely needs to be involved and the sooner, the better.  Most things can be negotiated between both sides prior to the finalization of the divorce, except for the pension (it is mandated by state law and non-negotiable).  You can negotiate health insurance coverage into the divorce agreement for a period of time or in perpetuity; however, if the retired member is enrolled in TRICARE (and why wouldn't he?), a non-dependent former spouse cannot be included in his plan.  Every case is unique and just because Sally got this when she divorced Steve doesn't mean you'll get the same thing; the judge can award you less...or more.  The bottom line is, bite the bullet and retain an attorney.



There have many cases where the retirees declined the SBP and signed their spouses names to it.  You would also be surprised how many military spouses are completely unaware of what they are/may be entitled to in the event of the retirees death.


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## PeoplesElbow

Vince said:


> BS.  You ever gone through a divorce being retired military with a cheating wife.  The judge found in favor of the wife.  So I say BS to the 50/50 crap.



So you gave up more than 50% of your assets?


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## Coventry17

PeoplesElbow said:


> Thought MD was a straight 50/50 split no matter what?



Not really.  There is a tremendous amount of latitude granted to the judges, particularly if children are involved.  Maryland is NOT a community property state, like California.


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