# Smoking, seriously



## vraiblonde

In the year and a half since I quit smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I've been sick more than I have probably in the whole rest of my life put together.  Flu bug, bronchial, blah blah blah, one thing after another.  I remember that when my mom quit smoking a thousand years ago, too, that she suddenly was always sick with some bug.  

So how do you anti-smoking zealots explain that?  Because this is not anecdotal, this is a true first-person account of my own health and what I have personally observed.


----------



## Roman

I've heard of this happening before. Do you take any vitamins? Take vitamin C as well as other vitamins that gear toward the immune system, and you will see a difference. I am a smoker, and am NOT proud of that, and I work around sick people all the time, yet I rarely get sick. Now that I'm kind of bragging about this, I'll probably get my first cold in years. Taking vitamins at night when the metabolism is slower, is the best time to take them. Here are the vitamins I take. Centrum Silver, vitamin C 500 Mg, Acidophilus, vitamin D 5,000, and Coenzyme 200 Mg twice a day. I swear by this.


----------



## dan0623_2000

All that nicotine in your lungs ate all those nasty virus bugs before they had a chance to invade your body.

Seriously, I had the same thing about 23 years ago when I quit at 2 1/2 packs a day.  Now ex-wife and myself both went cold turkey at same time to quit.  Amazing we didn't kill each other  LOL


----------



## vraiblonde

Roman said:


> I've heard of this happening before. Do you take any vitamins? Take vitamin C as well as other vitamins that gear toward the immune system, and you will see a difference. I am a smoker, and am NOT proud of that, and I work around sick people all the time, yet I rarely get sick. Now that I'm kind of bragging about this, I'll probably get my first cold in years. Taking vitamins at night when the metabolism is slower, is the best time to take them. Here are the vitamins I take. Centrum Silver, vitamin C 500 Mg, Acidophilus, vitamin D 5,000, and Coenzyme 200 Mg twice a day. I swear by this.



I do not take vitamins except for sporadically when I remember to do it.  But I eat for nutrition, and the doc says my blood looks good in that regard, so I don't worry about it.

But really, the best I ever felt in my life is when I smoked 2 packs a day, ate steak all the time, and drank copious amounts of alcohol.  This clean living is killing me.


----------



## Metrocrap

Add the alcohol back in and keep your BAC high enough to kill anything even trying to make you sick.


----------



## Roman

vraiblonde said:


> I do not take vitamins except for sporadically when I remember to do it.  But I eat for nutrition, and the doc says my blood looks good in that regard, so I don't worry about it.
> 
> But really, the best I ever felt in my life is when I smoked 2 packs a day, ate steak all the time, and drank copious amounts of alcohol.  This clean living is killing me.


Please don't go back to smoking! You have to take vitamins on a regular basis in order for the to be effective. Even though you eat for the nutritional value, it wouldn't hurt to take vitamins. Especially ones for the immune health. I use to always get colds, at least 3 a year. I honestly can't tell you the last time I had one. It's been at least 4 years. I'm 60 years old, and would catch every germ that was around. With being a smoker, we get sick a lot more than the non-smoker, because cigarette smoking messes with the immune system. I hope you feel better soon, and keep up the good work on the not smoking issue.


----------



## vraiblonde

Metrocrap said:


> Add the alcohol back in and keep your BAC high enough to kill anything even trying to make you sick.



Ahhh!  Great idea!  



Roman said:


> Please don't go back to smoking!



I didn't quit smoking for my health - I quit because I didn't want to give Terry McAuliffe or Martin O'Malley any more tax money.  Plus if I took up chain smoking again Monello would turn the fire hose on me.


----------



## luvmygdaughters

vraiblonde said:


> I do not take vitamins except for sporadically when I remember to do it.  But I eat for nutrition, and the doc says my blood looks good in that regard, so I don't worry about it.
> 
> But really, the best I ever felt in my life is when I smoked 2 packs a day, ate steak all the time, and drank copious amounts of alcohol.  This clean living is killing me.



Work with a guy who smoked 2-2 1/2 packs a day.  He quit cold turkey in September 2014, he is complaining of the same, he has had several colds, sinus infections and throat ailments since he quit.  Swore he never ever so much as caught a cold before.  He has gone back to smoking, but cut back quite a bit.  Something to think about.  Didn't I read somewhere that tobacco or nicotine had something to do with helping cure ebola victims?  I turn 60 this year, I smoke, but a pack of ciggs will last me two days, a box of wine a week.  I don't get sick, maybe a cold once a in a while.  My hubby has never smoked, in the last two years, he has been diagnosed with bladder cancer, had two stents put in, had a quadtruple bypass and was just diagnosed with Afib, which is under control with medication.   Go figure.


----------



## Roman

vraiblonde said:


> Ahhh!  Great idea!
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't quit smoking for my health - I quit because I didn't want to give Terry McAuliffe or Martin O'Malley any more tax money.  Plus if I took up chain smoking again Monello would turn the fire hose on me.


That is the reason I go to another state to get mine!


----------



## Ken King

Just guessing but I would say that it is probably because you are once again breathing more deeply and getting all of those bugs deeper into your lungs where they can take hold.  Before you quit you were hacking them out before they could get that deep into your lungs.


----------



## Ken King

Roman said:


> That is the reason I go to another state to get mine!



Roll your own and you can get the per carton price down to the $10/11 range.


----------



## libertytyranny

When you smoke you kill the little tiny hair like cilia that line your throat, lungs, sinuses and Eustachian (sp?) tubes. they are killed or paralyzed and are eventually, if you smoke enough, replaced by damaged cells that may turn cancerous, hence the increased cancer risk in smokers.  When you quit smoking the cells begin to regenerate where they haven't been completely damaged and can move a lot of mucus and phlegm around in your respiratory  tract. This of course does leave you open to infection while everything is clearing out. Infections make you susceptible to compounding infections etc etc. add to that a rather active flu season and the psychological aspect of justifying a well ingrained habit and you get a recipe for a very common experience among people who quit. Nearly everyone I know who quit complains for awhile after they are sicker, fatter, sadder and more anxious or at leat one of those. But it fades out and eventually I think you'll find your health is better overall. If nothing else, you are saving the cash.


----------



## vraiblonde

libertytyranny said:


> eventually I think you'll find your health is better overall.



My mom hasn't smoked in 35 years.  How long does it take?


----------



## mitzi

Ken King said:


> Roll your own and you can get the per carton price down to the $10/11 range.



That's what I've been doing for almost a year now. I have a little machine that packs them so I'm not really rolling them. That would be a failure if I tried to do that.


----------



## Roman

Ken King said:


> Roll your own and you can get the per carton price down to the $10/11 range.


I am lazy that way. I do have a bag, and a roller just in case of bad weather. I keep the unopened bag in my freezer, hoping it was stay fresh.


----------



## Monello

*Cigarette use by nation*

Number is the average number of cigarettes smoked per year

1  Serbia 2924 
2  Bulgaria 2,822 
3  Greece 2,795 
4  Russia 2,786 
5  Moldova 2,479 
6  Ukraine 2,401 
7  Slovenia 2,360 
8  Bosnia and Herzegovina 2,278 
9  Belarus 2,266 
10  Montenegro 2,157 
11  Lebanon 2,139 
12  Czech Republic 2,125 
13  South Korea 1,958 
14  Republic of Macedonia 1,934 
15  Kazakhstan 1,934 
16  Azerbaijan 1,877 
17  Japan 1,841 
18  Kuwait 1,812 
19  Spain 1,757 
20  Switzerland 1,722 
21  China 1,711 
22  Austria 1,650 
23  Tunisia 1,628 
24  Croatia 1,621 
25  Armenia


----------



## vraiblonde

Monello said:


> 20  Switzerland 1,722



That's a surprise.  I don't associate the Swiss with smoking.


----------



## SG_Player1974

Monello said:


> Number is the average number of cigarettes smoked per year
> 
> 1  Serbia 2924



Even this number only equates to 8 ciggs per day. Less than half a pack.

Was this a most/least ranking?


----------



## vraiblonde

SG_Player1974 said:


> Even this number only equates to 8 ciggs per day. Less than half a pack.
> 
> Was this a most/least ranking?



That is per capita data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita

The boring US is at #51.


----------



## Ken King

mitzi said:


> That's what I've been doing for almost a year now. I have a little machine that packs them so I'm not really rolling them. That would be a failure if I tried to do that.



Yeah, I have a machine that "packs" the filtered tubes (both 100s and Kings), I still call it rolling though.   I've been doing it for just about four years and it saves a ton of money (almost all excise taxes) with two smokers.  And they don't go out if you rest them for a few seconds in an ash tray.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> In the year and a half since I quit smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I've been sick more than I have probably in the whole rest of my life put together.  Flu bug, bronchial, blah blah blah, one thing after another.  I remember that when my mom quit smoking a thousand years ago, too, that she suddenly was always sick with some bug.
> 
> So how do you anti-smoking zealots explain that?  Because this is not anecdotal, this is a true first-person account of my own health and what I have personally observed.



Your immune system was devastated from the years of nicotine dependency to combat bugs. The nicotine, a FABULOUS insecticide, germicide, cide-cide, was doing ALL the work so your immune system became afflicted. Retarded. Un-functioning. Now, your body is desperately trying to reboot and get the thing started back up. Your DNA is running in circles  as it searches the recesses and bowels to find and re-fire the engines of resistance. These things take time. Does a gerber grow over night? No. Does a romaine become a salad over the weekend? No. Did Kim's ass get THAT big in 18 months? Not possible. 

So, be patient and be happy you have a wonderful guy cooking for you nutritious and healthy meals so that your ravaged systems may, albeit slowly, come back on line and do their duty. And, be happy that you have a fabulous ex sending you a care package, THE care package if I may be so  that will, WILL mind you, provide you with virtually 18 months worth of magical nutrients and minerals and digested worm and nematode poo that you've been painfully lacking as the nicotine killed off ALL the beneficial and biologicals meant to save your ass, lo, all these many desolate years. 

Glad you asked and you are welcome.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> My mom hasn't smoked in 35 years.  How long does it take?



You'll be fabulous by 80. 85 tops.


----------



## Larry Gude

Monello said:


> Number is the average number of cigarettes smoked per year
> 
> 1  Serbia 2924
> 2  Bulgaria 2,822
> 3  Greece 2,795
> 4  Russia 2,786
> 5  Moldova 2,479
> 6  Ukraine 2,401
> 7  Slovenia 2,360
> 8  Bosnia and Herzegovina 2,278
> 9  Belarus 2,266
> 10  Montenegro 2,157
> 11  Lebanon 2,139
> 12  Czech Republic 2,125
> 13  South Korea 1,958
> 14  Republic of Macedonia 1,934
> 15  Kazakhstan 1,934
> 16  Azerbaijan 1,877
> 17  Japan 1,841
> 18  Kuwait 1,812
> 19  Spain 1,757
> 20  Switzerland 1,722
> 21  China 1,711
> 22  Austria 1,650
> 23  Tunisia 1,628
> 24  Croatia 1,621
> 25  Armenia
> 26 Christyvrania 14,600




Fact checked.


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Your immune system was devastated from the years of nicotine dependency to combat bugs. The nicotine, a FABULOUS insecticide, germicide, cide-cide, was doing ALL the work so your immune system became afflicted. Retarded. Un-functioning. Now, your body is desperately trying to reboot and get the thing started back up.



That's probably the best explanation I've heard so far.  Saying only that my immune system was compromised by nicotine is dumb, considering that I was never sick when I smoked and now get buggies all the time.  But to say that the nicotine was on the job so my immune system said, "...Yeah...too many cooks..." and went off to party and find itself, THAT makes more sense.

You should call Harvard and Johns Hopkins.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> That's probably the best explanation I've heard so far.  Saying only that my immune system was compromised by nicotine is dumb, considering that I was never sick when I smoked and now get buggies all the time.  But to say that the nicotine was on the job so my immune system said, "...Yeah...too many cooks..." and went off to party and find itself, THAT makes more sense.
> 
> You should call Harvard and Johns Hopkins.



Probably????  WTF?


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> sending you a care package



How is this coming?  FedEx?


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> How is this coming?  FedEx?



Untied States Postal Service


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Untied States Postal Service



Untied or United?  I don't want to get the wrong one.


----------



## Bann

vraiblonde said:


> In the year and a half since I quit smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I've been sick more than I have probably in the whole rest of my life put together.  Flu bug, bronchial, blah blah blah, one thing after another.  I remember that when my mom quit smoking a thousand years ago, too, that she suddenly was always sick with some bug.
> 
> So how do you anti-smoking zealots explain that?  Because this is not anecdotal, this is a true first-person account of my own health and what I have personally observed.




I didn't smoke that much a day, but I do remember that I got a lot of the bugs and bronchial crap that you're describing* when I quit in 2000.   I decided the day I quit cold turkey that I would start exercising to counteract any possible weight gains.  15 years later and I do get an occasional sinus infection, but I have learned to keep that at bay so it won't turn into something bronchial and possibly pneumonia. (neti pot, prescription sinus spray, etc).   I know it will get better for you in time, but I also have to say, I never smoked anything after I quit.  No cigs and there weren't any e-cigs at that time.  I have smoked nothing since July 1, 2000.  

*I was SO TICKED that I quit smoking and started getting sick from all sorts of stuff!  I remember doing some intrawebs research and found all the usual  about it, but I found some other info that was the most informative I'd ever read.  For the longest time I even had that link saved, but I cannot find it or the info on the internet any longer.  It was a college study into Nicotine and the mechanisms of it in your brain, and a host of other information.


----------



## Bann

libertytyranny said:


> When you smoke you kill the little tiny hair like cilia that line your throat, lungs, sinuses and Eustachian (sp?) tubes. they are killed or paralyzed and are eventually, if you smoke enough, replaced by damaged cells that may turn cancerous, hence the increased cancer risk in smokers.  When you quit smoking the cells begin to regenerate where they haven't been completely damaged and can move a lot of mucus and phlegm around in your respiratory  tract. This of course does leave you open to infection while everything is clearing out. Infections make you susceptible to compounding infections etc etc. add to that a rather active flu season and the psychological aspect of justifying a well ingrained habit and you get a recipe for a very common experience among people who quit. Nearly everyone I know who quit complains for awhile after they are sicker, fatter, sadder and more anxious or at least one of those. But it fades out and eventually I think you'll find your health is better overall. If nothing else, you are saving the cash.


----------



## Bann

Larry Gude said:


> Your immune system was devastated from the years of nicotine dependency to combat bugs. The nicotine, a FABULOUS insecticide, germicide, cide-cide, was doing ALL the work so your immune system became afflicted. Retarded. Un-functioning. Now, your body is desperately trying to reboot and get the thing started back up. Your DNA is running in circles  as it searches the recesses and bowels to find and re-fire the engines of resistance. These things take time. Does a gerber grow over night? No. Does a romaine become a salad over the weekend? No. Did Kim's ass get THAT big in 18 months? Not possible.
> 
> So, be patient and be happy you have a wonderful guy cooking for you nutritious and healthy meals so that your ravaged systems may, albeit slowly, come back on line and do their duty. And, be happy that you have a fabulous ex sending you a care package, THE care package if I may be so  that will, WILL mind you, provide you with virtually 18 months worth of magical nutrients and minerals and digested worm and nematode poo that you've been painfully lacking as the nicotine killed off ALL the beneficial and biologicals meant to save your ass, lo, all these many desolate years.
> 
> Glad you asked and you are welcome.



   Good answer!!!



Larry Gude said:


> You'll be fabulous by 80. 85 tops.


----------



## mitzi

Ken King said:


> Yeah, I have a machine that "packs" the filtered tubes (both 100s and Kings), I still call it rolling though.   I've been doing it for just about four years and it saves a ton of money (almost all excise taxes) with two smokers.  And they don't go out if you rest them for a few seconds in an ash tray.



They can get a bit messy sometimes but it's worth the savings. I honestly couldn't afford to pay the full price of them anymore, that's why I tried making my own.


----------



## Larry Gude

Fwiw,  the instant I quit 14 years ago I felt better and better every single breathe. :shrug:


----------



## Ken King

mitzi said:


> They can get a bit messy sometimes but it's worth the savings. I honestly couldn't afford to pay the full price of them anymore, that's why I tried making my own.



I don't know what machine you use but mine isn't messy at all.  I could pay the price but I'm not going to fund those seeking to ban them with the excise tax money.  Not to mention that I enjoy the full flavored taste I get from them and I know they don't have the "fire-prevention" chemicals in them.


----------



## Midnightrider

Larry Gude said:


> Fwiw,  the instant I quit 14 years ago I felt better and better every single breathe. :shrug:


same here. It took about 2 months for me to have a noticable improvement in breathing, but i did not have this "sick all the time" syndrome V is talking about


vraiblonde said:


> That's probably the best explanation I've heard so far.  Saying only that my immune system was compromised by nicotine is dumb, considering that I was never sick when I smoked and now get buggies all the time.  But to say that the nicotine was on the job so my immune system said, "...Yeah...too many cooks..." and went off to party and find itself, THAT makes more sense.
> 
> You should call Harvard and Johns Hopkins.



That could be the explanation, but i thought you still inhaled nicotine you just vaped it. If that is the case the nicotine is still there.

Now the tar, that could be the 'magic bullet'


----------



## Larry Gude

Midnightrider said:


> same here. It took about 2 months for me to have a noticable improvement in breathing, but i did not have this "sick all the time" syndrome V is talking about t'



It's why I quit; I reached the point where a DEEP breath tasted sooooooo good and felt better. I crushed a half pack and tossed and EVERY breath on was fantastic. Still is to this day. I even quit cigars some time ago. This is fortunate for me; I simply WANTED those deep breaths more, far more, than that satisfying drag. I GET people enjoying smoking. I used to LOVE it. And I think that is why it is so hard for so many; they don't really wanna quit. I WANTED to. Very, very easy.


----------



## vraiblonde

Midnightrider said:


> That could be the explanation, but i thought you still inhaled nicotine you just vaped it. If that is the case the nicotine is still there.
> 
> Now the tar, that could be the 'magic bullet'



Or one of the other chemicals you get in cigs that you don't get in vaping.  Formaldehyde?  Who knows.

I never felt bad when I smoked like a Turk and I always had good breath - better lung power than many non-smokers, in fact.  I didn't wake up hacking out a body part, or wheezing when I walked up a flight of stairs.  When I ran at the gym, my legs would give out before my lungs would - Larry used to tease me that I'd smoke on the treadmill if they'd let me.  Cutting dramatically back, there was no noticeable improvement in my health or respiratory function.  No unicorns or rainbows, no nothing.  Just that I wasn't kicking in all that money to MOM or Terry anymore, which was the only reason I quit in the first place.

Now that I'm out of the habit - and yes, peeps, it is a habit and not a true addiction - I see no reason to go back to it (plus Monello would have me killed if I did), but all these little coldies and sinusies and buggies are annoying.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> Or one of the other chemicals you get in cigs that you don't get in vaping.  Formaldehyde?  Who knows.
> 
> I never felt bad when I smoked like a Turk and I always had good breath - better lung power than many non-smokers, in fact.  I didn't wake up hacking out a body part, or wheezing when I walked up a flight of stairs.  .



Is you smokers cough gone?


----------



## Gilligan

I quit 5 years ago after smoking 2 packs a day for about 30 years.  I've had the opposite experience, at least where any kind of lung/bronchial infections are involved. I used to get inflicted with some really bad cases and for several years now I've not had one.  My "smokers cough" was pretty bad too..and it is finally all gone.


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Is you smokers cough gone?



I cough and sneeze more now than I ever did when I smoked constantly.


----------



## Larry Gude

It is IMPORTANT to keep this in mind as well; FLOSSING. 

When we smoked, the nic killed everything. When you stop, bacteria grows in warm, wet, dark, protected places, your gums between the teeth, yet no longer have the nicotine to kill it. 
Bacteria, in general, takes 24 hours to begin to colonize in those warm, wet, dark, tight, protected places. If you do NOT floss at least once every 24 hours, bacteria colonizes, whatever you've breathed in, eaten, whatever #### covered knob your hands touched before you picked your teeth, the bacteria the kids bring home, etc, etc, COLONIZES, sets up shop and you breathe it into your lungs and you swallow it. 

From there, your immune system, absent the nicotine, is on it's own along with your general health, nutrition and rest habits. 

Throw in stress, strain, lack of mind, body and soul blowing sex, you name it, you're ass is on the path to being new mown grass. 

FLOSS. Once a day. And we can end the ACA.   <-------bumper sticker


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> I cough and sneeze more now than I ever did when I smoked constantly.



You had a distinctive little hack. Not a couch, a smokers HACK. Is that gone?


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> You had a distinctive little hack. Not a couch, a smokers HACK. Is that gone?



I did not - I had a smokers throat clearing from irritation.  It wasn't a true hack where I was peeling my lungs off the furniture and chasing my breath around the room.

And yes, the smoker's *throat clearing* is gone, replaced by actual coughing and sneezing.  I've also developed allergies that I never had before.


----------



## Gilligan

Sounds like you need to take smoking back up again.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> I did not - I had a smokers throat clearing from irritation.  It wasn't a true hack where I was peeling my lungs off the furniture and chasing my breath around the room.
> 
> And yes, the smoker's *throat clearing* is gone, replaced by actual coughing and sneezing.  I've also developed allergies that I never had before.



Some things never change.  


Mo, his her smokers hack/throat clearing gone???


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> And yes, the smoker's *throat clearing* is gone, replaced by actual coughing and sneezing.  I've also developed allergies that I never had before.



Oh, OK, then. 


Good!


----------



## Monello

vraiblonde said:


> I see no reason to go back to it (plus Monello would have me killed if I did),



You have been watching too much of the Sopranos.  Ya gagootz.


----------



## Larry Gude

Gilligan said:


> Sounds like you need to take smoking back up again.



Nope. What she needs is what we all need and it is on the way!!!  SUPER food!!!!


----------



## mitzi

Ken King said:


> I don't know what machine you use but mine isn't messy at all.  I could pay the price but I'm not going to fund those seeking to ban them with the excise tax money.  Not to mention that I enjoy the full flavored taste I get from them and I know they don't have the "fire-prevention" chemicals in them.



I think it's just me, rushing and not getting them packed tight. I use an electric machine.


----------



## SG_Player1974

vraiblonde said:


> ...replaced by actual coughing and sneezing.  I've also developed allergies that I never had before.



Exact same here. Quit with the tobacco and now use vaping. Now that I quit smoking tobacco, my SO insists that vaping is worse than tobacco ciggs. Really? Vegetable glycol, Propylene glycol, and nicotine.... that's it! I would think that is a lot better than the hundreds of chemicals in tobacco.

But I digress.... I agree with vrai. Since I quit the tobacco, I have been prone to sickness AND new allergies.


----------



## Larry Gude

SG_Player1974 said:


> ...Propylene glycol...




Anti freeze. 

It's also in Corona which I used to drink like water so that I could avoid scurvy via limes. I used to have a chronic ache in my right Achilles. I quit Corona's when I found out about C₃H₈O₂
and the ache is gone. 

Just saying.      <------good ingredient beer (Sierra Nevada)


----------



## Larry Gude

SG_Player1974 said:


> Exact same here. Quit with the tobacco and now use vaping. Now that I quit smoking tobacco, my SO insists that vaping is worse than tobacco ciggs. Really? Vegetable glycol, Propylene glycol, and nicotine.... that's it! I would think that is a lot better than the hundreds of chemicals in tobacco.
> 
> But I digress.... I agree with vrai. Since I quit the tobacco, I have been prone to sickness AND new allergies.



Do you floss? Every day?


----------



## SG_Player1974

Larry Gude said:


> Do you floss? Every day?



Yep!


----------



## SG_Player1974

Larry Gude said:


> Anti freeze.



Lets go ahead and tell the REST of the story shall we?

From the PG Wiki:

"Propylene glycol is used as an humectant (E1520), solvent, and *preservative in food* and for tobacco products, as well as being one of the major ingredients of the "e-liquid" used in electronic cigarettes along with vegetable glycerin. *Propylene glycol is also used in various edible items such as coffee, ice cream, whipped dairy products, beer and soda*.[7] *Vaporizers used for delivery of pharmaceuticals or personal care products often include propylene glycol among the ingredients they are filled with.[4] Propylene glycol is used as a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations, such as for diazepam and lorazepam which are insoluble in water.[8]"*

I guess we better tell the grocery stores to close down! Don't forget about the pharmacy...


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> Nope. What she needs is what we all need and it is on the way!!!  SUPER food!!!!



You are SO late to that party.  *Some* of us have been eating clean, organic, and nutrition-minded for years.


----------



## Midnightrider

vraiblonde said:


> I did not - I had a smokers throat clearing from irritation.  It wasn't a true hack where I was peeling my lungs off the furniture and chasing my breath around the room.
> 
> And yes, the smoker's *throat clearing* is gone, replaced by actual coughing and sneezing.  I've also developed allergies that I never had before.


quite possible that the coughing and sneezing is from your ecig, not from elimination of regular tobacco


vraiblonde said:


> Or one of the other chemicals you get in cigs that you don't get in vaping.  Formaldehyde?  Who knows.
> 
> I never felt bad when I smoked like a Turk and I always had good breath - better lung power than many non-smokers, in fact.  I didn't wake up hacking out a body part, or wheezing when I walked up a flight of stairs.  When I ran at the gym, my legs would give out before my lungs would - Larry used to tease me that I'd smoke on the treadmill if they'd let me.  Cutting dramatically back, there was no noticeable improvement in my health or respiratory function.  No unicorns or rainbows, no nothing.  Just that I wasn't kicking in all that money to MOM or Terry anymore, which was the only reason I quit in the first place.
> 
> Now that I'm out of the habit - and yes, peeps, it is a habit and not a true addiction - I see no reason to go back to it (plus Monello would have me killed if I did), but all these little coldies and sinusies and buggies are annoying.



:denial:

you cant really say because you didn't stop ingesting nicotine. Its like a heroine addict saying herione is not addcitive because they were able to stop sooting up, but they continue to snort it. You are still taking the addictive drug


----------



## vraiblonde

Midnightrider said:


> you cant really say because you didn't stop ingesting nicotine.



Well, I am now on the same health level as people who are completely nicotine free - read: picking up every bug known to humanity - so same same.


----------



## vraiblonde

Monello said:


> Ya gagootz.


----------



## Ken King

mitzi said:


> I think it's just me, rushing and not getting them packed tight. I use an electric machine.



Ah, I am betting an auger type.  I use a manual spoon feed and have no load density problems.  Do you keep a little pressure on the end of the filter as the auger loads the tube?  That will give you a better load.


----------



## Ken King

Larry Gude said:


> *Anti freeze. *
> 
> It's also in Corona which I used to drink like water so that I could avoid scurvy via limes. I used to have a chronic ache in my right Achilles. I quit Corona's when I found out about C₃H₈O₂
> and the ache is gone.
> 
> Just saying.      <------good ingredient beer (Sierra Nevada)



Anti-freeze is (or used to be) ethylene glycol.  

:edit: Do not give it to a cat!!!!!


----------



## RareBreed

For all who pack their own cigarettes, what brand is the machine you use? Husband smokes and goes out of state for cigs so this might be an option for him.


----------



## PeoplesElbow

Maybe it is just cause you are getting old.


----------



## Ken King

RareBreed said:


> For all who pack their own cigarettes, what brand is the machine you use? Husband smokes and goes out of state for cigs so this might be an option for him.


I use the Premier Supermatic and get my products here - https://www.valuetobacco.com/


----------



## mitzi

I have this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Powermatic-El...ic+2+PLUS+Electric+Cigarette+Injector+Machine


----------



## Larry Gude

SG_Player1974 said:


> Yep!



Then you're not sick.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> You are SO late to that party.  *Some* of us have been eating clean, organic, and nutrition-minded for years.



Let's see who, after today, is what in terms of being the kewl kid in good food.


----------



## SG_Player1974

Larry Gude said:


> Then you're not sick.



Well thanks Dr. Larry F.O.S

I never knew that you could diagnose another's health through a community forum.

And who else knew that as long as you floss daily... you are never really sick?

BRILLIANT!


----------



## Midnightrider

vraiblonde said:


> Well, I am now on the same health level as people who are completely nicotine free - read: picking up every bug known to humanity - so same same.



no, you are picking up every bug. Most people i know dont get sick that often. \
:continueddenial:


----------



## vraiblonde

Midnightrider said:


> no, you are picking up every bug. Most people i know dont get sick that often. \
> :continueddenial:



You keep saying "denial" - what exactly do you think I'm in denial about?  I'm making observations and asking questions, how is that denial?


----------



## Larry Gude

SG_Player1974 said:


> Well thanks Dr. Larry F.O.S
> 
> I never knew that you could diagnose another's health through a community forum.
> 
> And who else knew that as long as you floss daily... you are never really sick?
> 
> BRILLIANT!



I have no been sick ONE day, NOT one, since I quit smoking AND started flossing EVERY day. I miss days flossing sometimes. I've had days I didn't feel all that good. I've had a minor cold or two but, every single time I felt awful was self inflicted be it awful eating or  

I could save our nation a #### ton on health care.  "Here you go, pops. A little waxed string or quintuple bypass. Your choice. One is covered. One is not."


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> You keep saying "denial" - what exactly do you think I'm in denial about?  I'm making observations and asking questions, how is that denial?



It's not. You've been very understanding about the immunological implications of your prior poor choices. (I looked it up)


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:


> It's not. You've been very understanding about the immunological implications of your prior poor choices. (I looked it up)



Yes, it appears that quitting smoking was an immunologically poor choice.  But it's too late now, I'm out of the habit.


----------



## Larry Gude

vraiblonde said:


> Yes, it appears that quitting smoking was an immunologically poor choice.  But it's too late now, I'm out of the habit.



That's what the Flying Nun said...


----------



## Midnightrider

vraiblonde said:


> You keep saying "denial" - what exactly do you think I'm in denial about?  I'm making observations and asking questions, how is that denial?


you are in denial about cigs being addictive.

you are also in denial about you being sick all the time not being "abnormal". Most people who dont smoke or dont vape dont get sick all of the time. They dont cough and sneeze all the time or catch every bug that comes along. I work with a building full of people who aren't always sick and we only have 2 smokers out of about 120 people.

but please, keep telling yourself that nicotine is not addictive and that being sick all the time is normal for people who dont smoke


----------



## vraiblonde

Midnightrider said:


> you are in denial about cigs being addictive.
> 
> you are also in denial about you being sick all the time not being "abnormal". Most people who dont smoke or dont vape dont get sick all of the time. They dont cough and sneeze all the time or catch every bug that comes along. I work with a building full of people who aren't always sick and we only have 2 smokers out of about 120 people.
> 
> but please, keep telling yourself that nicotine is not addictive and that being sick all the time is normal for people who dont smoke



Actually, given the number of people who've come on to support my observation, it appears that it's you who is in denial.

Why is this subject making you so angry and combative?  Do you need a cigarette to calm you down?


----------



## Midnightrider

vraiblonde said:


> Actually, given the number of people who've come on to support my observation, it appears that it's you who is in denial.
> 
> Why is this subject making you so angry and combative?  Do you need a cigarette to calm you down?



i'm not being combative or angry. I am just pointing out the reality. Most people who dont smoke are not sick all the time and niocotine is addictive.

BTW, i have not seen anyone support your contention that nicotine is not addictive or that most people who dont smoke get sick all the time.


----------



## Larry Gude

Midnightrider said:


> you are in denial about cigs being addictive. e



Best I can agree to is 'CAN be addictive."


----------



## RPMDAD

Ken King said:


> I use the Premier Supermatic and get my products here - https://www.valuetobacco.com/



Ken, checked the site out and it says it cannot sell cigarette tobacco.  Where do you get your tobacco from?


----------



## Larry Gude

RPMDAD said:


> Ken, checked the site out and it says it cannot sell cigarette tobacco.  Where do you get your 'tobacco' from?



I see. So THAT is what they are calling 'it' these days, huh?


----------



## PeoplesElbow

SG_Player1974 said:


> Lets go ahead and tell the REST of the story shall we?
> 
> From the PG Wiki:
> 
> "Propylene glycol is used as an humectant (E1520), solvent, and *preservative in food* and for tobacco products, as well as being one of the major ingredients of the "e-liquid" used in electronic cigarettes along with vegetable glycerin. *Propylene glycol is also used in various edible items such as coffee, ice cream, whipped dairy products, beer and soda*.[7] *Vaporizers used for delivery of pharmaceuticals or personal care products often include propylene glycol among the ingredients they are filled with.[4] Propylene glycol is used as a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations, such as for diazepam and lorazepam which are insoluble in water.[8]"*
> 
> I guess we better tell the grocery stores to close down! Don't forget about the pharmacy...



If antifreeze is in icecream how does it freeze then?


----------



## Ken King

RPMDAD said:


> Ken, checked the site out and it says it cannot sell cigarette tobacco.  Where do you get your tobacco from?



They call it "pipe tobacco", cut a little rougher than regular cigarette tobacco.  I've tried several of the brands over the years and the best, IMO, is called "The Good Stuff".


----------



## PrchJrkr

Ken King said:


> They call it "pipe tobacco", cut a little rougher than regular cigarette tobacco.  I've tried several of the brands over the years and the best, IMO, is called "The Good Stuff".



 I definitely prefer "The Good Stuff", however, I've found "Smokers Pride" a cheaper alternative and available at the local Food Lion. I smoke menthol, so the differnce in the two may be night and day in regular flavor.

Edit: I use a "Top-o-Matic" crank roller and the cheapest filter tubes available.


----------



## Christy

vraiblonde said:


> In the year and a half since I quit smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I've been sick more than I have probably in the whole rest of my life put together.  Flu bug, bronchial, blah blah blah, one thing after another.  I remember that when my mom quit smoking a thousand years ago, too, that she suddenly was always sick with some bug.
> 
> So how do you anti-smoking zealots explain that?  Because this is not anecdotal, this is a true first-person account of my own health and what I have personally observed.



You may be on to something Vrai. 

I quit smoking about 7-8 months ago.  Never had allergies, EVER.  Now I am a walking snot bomb.


----------



## Larry Gude

Christy said:


> You may be on to something Vrai.
> 
> I quit smoking about 7-8 months ago.  Never had allergies, EVER.  Now I am a walking snot bomb.



Smoking is just another zealot thing we did. There are positives to nicotine. Just not PC to say so.   :shrug:


----------



## blazinlow89

Larry Gude said:


> Smoking is just another zealot thing we did. There are positives to nicotine. Just not PC to say so.   :shrug:



I've seen some decent research papers for the benefits and the issues with nicotine.  Its all about dosage.  The biggest problem is that many people cannot disassociate nicotine from tobacco.  

As for PG, it is an antifreeze, and I have this argument a lot with people who do not want to educate themselves.  It also has other uses, antifreeze is just an industrial one, but its generally only used when leakage can cause environmental harm.  Most of your standard stuff including PentaFrost, Dexcool, and the green Prestone stuff contains the ethylene Glycol.


----------



## Pushrod

vraiblonde said:


> In the year and a half since I quit smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day, I've been sick more than I have probably in the whole rest of my life put together.  Flu bug, bronchial, blah blah blah, one thing after another.  I remember that when my mom quit smoking a thousand years ago, too, that she suddenly was always sick with some bug.
> 
> So how do you anti-smoking zealots explain that?  Because this is not anecdotal, this is a true first-person account of my own health and what I have personally observed.



I wonder Vrai, if there are just more respiratory diseases in society now or more infectious virus's. I used to rarely get sick, maybe once every ten years. The past two years I have gotten colds or sinus infections 3 or 4 times a year and they seem to last up to two weeks. 
It could also have something to do with my four-year-old boy being in pre-school and acting as a host/vector to every bug going around.


----------



## Larry Gude

Pushrod said:


> I wonder Vrai, if there are just more respiratory diseases in society now or more infectious virus's. I used to rarely get sick, maybe once every ten years. The past two years I have gotten colds or sinus infections 3 or 4 times a year and they seem to last up to two weeks.
> It could also have something to do with my four-year-old boy being in pre-school and acting as a host/vector to every bug going around.



Nope. It's biology. Everything competing to live. Things not making it so that others may live, nature and the constant battle that equals balance. 

We used to be closer to the soil, a pyramid that goes from bottom to top; soil, microbes, plant life, insects, birds, herbivore, omnivore, carnivore, man. Modern ag and science is all about destruction of that balance in pursuit of better control through production, purchase and use of chemicals. Yields go up, damage is reduced, the balance is LOST. A balance that, while it could be harmful by simple fact of BAD places with bad pre conditions for man, was also enormously beneficial in terms of balance. Healthy soil means healthy microbes means healthy plant life means healthy insects and on up the chain. In every case, poor anything, plants, animals, people, goes right back to the soil and lack of balance is supposed to me losers be it anything on that pyramid that is out of balance. 

Well, we don't like the idea of us dying off as part of balance thus commercial ag improving our survivability but at great cost to the balance that would normally keep us in check. So, while many more would die on a regular basis in nature way too many of us live and we do it by the imbalance we create in the soil and in turn right on up the pyramid to where now we are dependent on our industrial practices to keep this many of us alive. Yet we can not escape poor soil meaning poor microbes, plants, bugs, on up. Poor soil = poor people.   

So, we have a LOT of weak people. It shows itself, like it does in the soil, microbes, plants, bugs, on up, in weakness's that, instead of dying off, we perpetuate with....more industrial ag, medicine and everything we can come up with to create an artificial balance, artificial health.


----------



## Larry Gude

blazinlow89 said:


> I've seen some decent research papers for the benefits and the issues with nicotine.  Its all about dosage. .



Yup. Everything is. Dosage, balance. Life. Biology. Little bit of this, little bit of that. The only place imbalance is acceptable is the obvious; 


Beer


----------



## blazinlow89

Larry Gude said:


> Yup. Everything is. Dosage, balance. Life. Biology. Little bit of this, little bit of that. The only place imbalance is acceptable is the obvious;
> 
> 
> Beer



With beer moderation is key.  By moderation I mean you should have enough so you don't run out.

On another note I have been vain for about 3 years, 1 using the newer advanced systems.  I have not been sick at all.  I usually have 1-2 bad colds or a respiratory infection.  So far I have been good.


----------



## Larry Gude

blazinlow89 said:


> With beer moderation is key.  By moderation I mean you should have enough so you don't run out. .



Post of the day


----------



## Christy

Larry Gude said:


> Smoking is just another zealot thing we did. There are positives to nicotine. Just not PC to say so.   :shrug:



I have no idea what this means, but, back to my original post.... An update. It was a cold not allergies. :hooray:  Worst cold EVER though.  Bet it wouldn't have been nearly as bad if I was still sucking on the cancer sticks.


----------



## Larry Gude

Christy said:


> I have no idea what this means, :



Our assault on it, the second hand jihad, baby out with the bathwater all America way we go about stuff.


----------



## acommondisaster

Larry Gude said:


> Fwiw,  the instant I quit 14 years ago I felt better and better every single breathe. :shrug:



same here.


----------



## GURPS

Pushrod said:


> It could also have something to do with my four-year-old boy being in pre-school and acting as a host/vector to every bug going around.






yes ... my 10 yr old never got sick, until she started going to school


----------



## SG_Player1974

GURPS said:


> yes ... my 10 yr old never got sick, until she started going to school





I put a lot of the blame on the parents Usually, my kids are germ free the entire summer. Within a week of "school days" they are sick. Countless times I have dropped off my kids or taken them into class only to see one or two of their classmates snot-filled and coughing.

If your kid is sick.... it is not a daycare so you can work or run errands! KEEP THEM AT HOME!


----------

