# Buying first handgun



## LOL

What is a good gun?

Where in Southern MD can I buy one?

General shooting, not for sport shooting or hunting.


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## Novus Collectus

LOL said:


> What is a good gun?
> 
> ...


What experience do you have with guns and handguns?
Are you a big person?
Do you like a BIG boom and a lot of power, or do you just want something to knock soda cans off a fence post with?
Do you want to shoot cheaply? 
How much are you willing to spend on the handgun itself?


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## LOL

Novus Collectus said:


> What experience do you have with guns and handguns?
> Are you a big person?
> Do you like a BIG boom and a lot of power, or do you just want something to knock soda cans off a fence post with?
> Do you want to shoot cheaply?
> How much are you willing to spend on the handgun itself?



No experience, I plan on taking a safety course.
I am big enough, 6' 180 lbs.
Something in between, I don't need something with A LOT of power, but I want something decent.
I was considering around $1500.00


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## Bustem' Down

LOL said:


> No experience, I plan on taking a safety course.
> I am big enough, 6' 180 lbs.
> Something in between, I don't need something with A LOT of power, but I want something decent.
> I was considering around $1500.00



I like a .45 and H&K is nice.  A good amount of power but nothing crazy, just fun to shoot.


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## clevalley

If you are going to recreation shoot and just have "fun" and want a semi-automatic- look at a either a .22 cal or 9mm; the ammo is CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!  You can shoot it all day long and it will not break the bank.

A revolver - I really like the .357 Magnum - you can shoot CHEAP .38 special rounds and if you want the BOOM - load some .357 Magnums  - I have one that was passed down by my father (S&W Patrolman's Special - bought in the 50's - awesome revolver).

If you are looking for something to recreation shoot and double as some type of home defense, then I would (personally) go .40cal or .45 and H&K like Bustem' says... 

I personally own the Beretta 92F in the 9mm flavor - a really nice shooting gun, it feels big in your hands... Once I narrowed it down to the caliber I went and picked up every model made and settled on the Beretta because it FELT right.

Home defense - IF I ever had to defend myself I would bypass the handgun and go with the 12 gauge...

I am sure other will weight in on this...

Place to go locally - I would go to Fred's Sporting Goods in Waldorf Maryland to handle and touch to get an idea... once you narrow down what you want specifically then I would get on the internet and start looking at dealers in Maryland and get quotes over the phone to see if you can save a buck or two...

There is a place in Glenn Burnie called "On Target" and another one my co-workers deal with that have a great selection and the staff is very helpful.  I can get more information and post it if you like.

Good Luck!


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## AK-74me

LOL said:


> What is a good gun?
> 
> Where in Southern MD can I buy one?
> 
> General shooting, not for sport shooting or hunting.



People will reccomend their favorite gun in general, you should go and handle as many as possible before you decide what to buy.

I have Sigs and Springfields, that is what I like though.

As long as you stick with the reputable brands and it feels good in your hand then you can't go wrong.

For a first handgun, I would personally reccomend something in 9mm.

Here is why: It is available everywhere
It is still relatively inexpensive to shoot.
It has enough power to be used as a HD or personal defense gun.
It's recoil is relatively mild
Tons of different 9mm loads are available.
Every manufacture makes a model in 9mm.


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## Novus Collectus

LOL said:


> No experience, I plan on taking a safety course.
> I am big enough, 6' 180 lbs.
> Something in between, I don't need something with A LOT of power, but I want something decent.
> I was considering around $1500.00


If you are willing to spend $1500.00, then just about all common handguns are within your price range. That also means whatever caliber you choose you can afford to shoot boatloads of.
If you are just having fun with the gun and a medium power is fine, then 9mm will do the job, but so will .45 ACP. .45 ACP in a 1911A1 or 1911 type of gun is not bad as far as recoil.
Personally I like the bigger calibers like .45 for target practice and plinking because it leaves a bigger hole in the paper that is much easier to see down range and if you ever shoot bowling pins they have better knock down power than the 9mm.
Also, if you went the 1911A1 route and you like shooting so much you want to expand your range, then there are so many things you can add or change on a 1911 that for some people it gets addictive (adding scopes, compensators, longer barrels, bull barrels, grip lasers, 9mm or .38 super or .22 LR slide conversions...etc).

But if you have $1500 to spend, then the HK may be a good idea because you can buy one and still have $600 left over for ammo (which is about 3,000 rounds of 9mm).

Personally I would take that $1500 and buy a bunch of pistols and revolvers that I want, but I collect guns though and you just the deluxe model for fun.


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## clevalley

AK-74me said:


> People will reccomend their favorite gun in general, you should go and handle as many as possible before you decide what to buy.
> 
> I have Sigs and Springfields, that is what I like though.
> 
> As long as you stick with the reputable brands and it feels good in your hand then you can't go wrong.
> 
> For a first handgun, I would personally reccomend something in 9mm.
> 
> Here is why: It is available everywhere
> It is still relatively inexpensive to shoot.
> It has enough power to be used as a HD or personal defense gun.
> It's recoil is relatively mild
> Tons of different 9mm loads are available.
> Every manufacture makes a model in 9mm.



I whole heartedly agree - that is why I recommended 9mm.

I just had a thought as well, some indoor ranges will let you rent a handgun to try it out at their range


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## Novus Collectus

clevalley said:


> I whole heartedly agree - that is why I recommended 9mm.
> 
> I just had a thought as well, some indoor ranges will let you rent a handgun to try it out at their range


MD Small Armds in Forestville and On Target in the Severn area (as well as some others in MD and VA) rent handguns to use on their ranges.
I think they charge a minimal fee, but you have to rent a lane and use their ammo when you fire their guns. Their ammo prices are much higher than anywhere else (it's a gun range after all and that is customary because they have to pay their rent too), but the gun rental is cool because for the same rental fee you can bring back one and ask for another one to fire. You can buy a box of 9mm and try out all their 9mm handguns for the same price.

(by the way, On Target charges for lane use by the half hour IIRC and MD Small arms charges by the day. If you are going to shoot for more than an hour then MD Small arms is much cheaper, but On Target has a much better lit and ventilated range.)


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## RadioPatrol

Personally I'd start off with a .22 Revolver - Single Six or Auto - Ruger Mark II? is a great plinker ..... get good / used to shooting then move up to something bigger ..... I lean to the 1911A1, but I carried one in the Army way back when .... I have shot 92F, S&W .357, .44 Mag in a S&W M29, 629, and Blackhawk ? - single action -


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## Larry Gude

*If the weapon...*



LOL said:


> No experience, I plan on taking a safety course.
> I am big enough, 6' 180 lbs.
> Something in between, I don't need something with A LOT of power, but I want something decent.
> I was considering around $1500.00



...is going to also be for your personal, family and home protection, in other words you plan on using it in an emergency, like any piece of emergency gear, the simpler the better. You state you are inexperienced. That leads me to say a revolver is your best bet. They are the simplest to operate, the least moving parts for the shooter to deal with and thus will likely be your best bet in a stressful situation. 

The next question is; are you mechanically inclined? 

Are you a person who knows where the jack is in your car? Know how to change a flat? In other words, do you figure out how things work readily and are you person who practices things to get better, take wells to new hobbies instead of an infactuation you'll get bored of in a few months?

If so, that opens up pretty much everything out there. There is a saying that goes; the only thing louder than a click when it is supposed to go bang is a bang when it is supposed to go click. THIS MEANS you must take this seriously. If you don't learn what you are doing, you many not be able to kill someone trying to kill you or, much worse, you may kill someone you don't mean to. THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF. 

As has been said, you gotta go get your hands on some weapons, talk to the gun store people, get a feel for what you like. 

Get training and learn to use your weapon. Once you get involved, you'll get plenty of recommendations and advice as to type of weapon and training. 

If you simply just want a recommendation as to what to go get and aren't interested in a whole bunch of comments and opinions and rigmarole about types and training and use and emergencies and cool slogans and don't wanna be preached to as to how serious this and all that ya da ya da ya, I say; 



Get nothing.


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## smilin

I would agree with everyone on here about one thing: take a firearms course first. Sometimes they will let you try out different models. Starting out though it's hard to separate the bang from the buck. That said, have fun and be safe.
I Love my .22 Ruger MK II for all around plinking and my 9mm for more serious work or home defence. However the real home defence weapon is a good 12 gauge pump, just the slide going home has made a few people wake up and get out of my way.
Get training first, then a good trigger lock, or whatever you need to secure the weapon.


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## Magnum

Just got my safe yesterday 

Now I keep my .45 under the pillow, 1 shotgun leaning against the bed and another shotgun midway to the safe from my room 


I like my .45. Never really shot any handguns until I got it. It takes a lot of getting used too. I kept hitting low all the time. Starting to get better with more practice. Now I put a new barrel and bushing on it. Old bushing was cracked so I can't wait to see if it shoots better now.

I like the 1911's so many parts and pieces out there. 

I think I am getting another .45 soon, then going for the DE .50, then the S&W 500


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## Vince

Magnum said:


> Just got my safe yesterday
> 
> Now I keep my .45 under the pillow, 1 shotgun leaning against the bed and another shotgun midway to the safe from my room


 You must live in a fun neighborhood.  

Home defense weapon 

.44 Henry rifle - 13 rounds.


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## Magnum

Vince said:


> You must live in a fun neighborhood.
> 
> Home defense weapon
> 
> .44 Henry rifle - 13 rounds.



Actually I live in the middle of a field down in nowhere I am used to being surrounded by trees and woods. Now in an open field situation I have to change my plans around. 

I like the lever action, I almost picked one up a while back. So many toys to buy.


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## luvscats

if I live in Pr Fred where would I go to take a safety course?   does this course teach Maryland specific gun laws?


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## Novus Collectus

luvscats said:


> if I live in Pr Fred where would I go to take a safety course?   does this course teach Maryland specific gun laws?



*Most* MD gun laws can be found here: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/26thedition/index.htm
Note: it does not list the MD hunting laws which includes having all guns unloaded that are on or in a motor vehicle with a few exceptions.
If you have any questions about MD law then go ahead and ask. I am NOT a lawyer, but I have read the MD gun laws back and forth.

A MD gun dealer will know most of the laws, but they are not experts and there is a lot of misinformation  out there. It is better to not take their word as the last one and it is a good idea to double check for yourself. Sometimes they cite how the law used to be, but laws and court precedents in MD can change from year to year.

I do not know about Calvert county, but if you are willing to go for a drive to Severn in Anne Arundel county then On Target I beleive has a basic gun safety instruction course. http://www.ontargetdot.com/

When you buy your first handgun in MD, you have to either prove you do not have to take a safety course (already took the hunter safety course, ex military or police officer), or you have to take the course and get a card so that you can show it for your next purchase and avoid going through it again.
The MD safety course is a video and now can be taken on line (you print out the card or something or like that after you saw the video). You can see the video (take the course) and get instructions for the card here http://mdgunsafety.com/
Even if you do not plan on owning a gun, it is good to watch just in case someone takes you shooting someday.


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## luvscats

Thanks for all the info!   I will put it to good use.


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## itsbob

Magnum said:


> Just got my safe yesterday
> 
> Now I keep my .45 under the pillow, 1 shotgun leaning against the bed and another shotgun midway to the safe from my room
> 
> 
> I like my .45. Never really shot any handguns until I got it. It takes a lot of getting used too. I kept hitting low all the time. Starting to get better with more practice. Now I put a new barrel and bushing on it. Old bushing was cracked so I can't wait to see if it shoots better now.
> 
> I like the 1911's so many parts and pieces out there.
> 
> I think I am getting another .45 soon, then going for the DE .50, then the S&W 500



I love my .45, and never liked the feel of the 9mm.. 

The S&W 645 fits my hand REAL well, and with a little bit of work has turned into a REALLY nice pistol..


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## Magnum

itsbob said:


> I love my .45, and never liked the feel of the 9mm..
> 
> The S&W 645 fits my hand REAL well, and with a little bit of work has turned into a REALLY nice pistol..



I have the "Pit Bull" with Hogue grips.


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## itsbob

Magnum said:


> I have the "Pit Bull" with Hogue grips.



I bought it custom.. so it has adjustable BoMar sights (wish they had a tritium blade) and a custom Bar-Sto barrel that is exceptionally tight in the receiver.  VERY accurate.

Also a pair of synthetic grips, but can't remember who makes them.


When I was shooting frequently thought about getting it ported.. but never got around to it.


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## smilin

Magnum said:


> I have the "Pit Bull" with Hogue grips.



I tend to buy weapons that I'm interested in firing. I shoot a Marlin  lever action for that old west experience, but my favorite has to be a Hawkins black powder. It doesn't kick as much as pushes you back. We actually got up to three shots a minute once (before my SF bud forgot the powder!).
I'd like to get one of the old revolvers, something like a Navy Colt or Dragoon.


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## Novus Collectus

smilin said:


> I tend to buy weapons that I'm interested in firing. I shoot a Marlin  lever action for that old west experience, but my favorite has to be a Hawkins black powder. It doesn't kick as much as pushes you back. We actually got up to three shots a minute once (before my SOF bud forgot the powder!).
> I'd like to get one of the old revolvers, something like a Navy Colt or Dragoon.


I have a number of cap and ball BP revolvers. All are replica 1858 Remingtons except for an open top Colt (I think it is an 1860). They are fun, but reloading them can get tedious so I bought a .45 Long Colt conversion cylinder for one and it is a  blast!
What I want next is a smokeless powder, cap and ball muzzle loading revolver. It would be a lot longer before it fouled.


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## Magnum

smilin said:


> I tend to buy weapons that I'm interested in firing. I shoot a Marlin  lever action for that old west experience, but my favorite has to be a Hawkins black powder. It doesn't kick as much as pushes you back. We actually got up to three shots a minute once (before my SOF bud forgot the powder!).
> I'd like to get one of the old revolvers, something like a Navy Colt or Dragoon.



I have an old Hawkins. I used to carry that hunting over my shotgun 

I have an old black powder revolver. I only carried it 2 years hunting..... I killed a snake with it once I kicked a log deer hunting and this big 'ol snake came out, that revolver tore it up. I actually just wiped it down yesterday, I let it sit too long, now it's seized up.


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## AK-74me

Magnum said:


> Just got my safe yesterday
> 
> Now I keep my .45 under the pillow, 1 shotgun leaning against the bed and another shotgun midway to the safe from my room
> 
> 
> I like my .45. Never really shot any handguns until I got it. It takes a lot of getting used too. I kept hitting low all the time. Starting to get better with more practice. Now I put a new barrel and bushing on it. Old bushing was cracked so I can't wait to see if it shoots better now.
> 
> I like the 1911's so many parts and pieces out there.
> 
> I think I am getting another .45 soon, then going for the DE .50, then the S&W 500




Either you're rich, don't shoot much or reload. Those are all pretty expensive to shoot.


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## Magnum

AK-74me said:


> Either your rich, don't shoot much or reload. Those are all pretty expensive to shoot.



I wish I was rich 

They would be kept around more for looks than shooting. The 500 costs like $2.50 a shot


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## DEEKAYPEE8569

LOL said:


> What is a good gun?
> 
> Where in Southern MD can I buy one?
> 
> General shooting, not for sport shooting or hunting.


----------------------------------------------------------
If you are a novice; like myself; and you want a "dependable" gun, I recommend the High Point 1911 9mm. I boought [it] and a TUARUS PT111 at the Tackle Box.


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## AK-74me

DEEKAYPEE8569 said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------
> If you are a novice; like myself; and you want a "dependable" gun, I recommend the High Point 1911 9mm. I boought [it] and a TUARUS PT111 at the Tackle Box.




No offense but the Tackle Box, although it maybe convenient to alot of people in SOMD is not where I would go to buy a gun. The prices alone would keep me away, not to mention the sometimes shotty advice.

Best advice is to go to a range up the road that will let you fondle and shoot several guns.

Come back on here and let me know what you like and I bet I can find it cheaper than any of the stores sell it around this area.


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## Magnum

I can't stand Fred's. Price and Attitude


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## itsbob

DEEKAYPEE8569 said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------
> If you are a novice; like myself; and you want a "dependable" gun, I recommend the High Point 1911 9mm. I boought [it] and a TUARUS PT111 at the Tackle Box.



I can't believe you said 1911 and 9mm in the same sentence...


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## toppick08

AK-74me said:


> No offense but the Tackle Box, although it maybe convenient to alot of people in SOMD is not where I would go to buy a gun. The prices alone would keep me away, not to mention the sometimes shotty advice.
> 
> Best advice is to go to a range up the road that will let you fondle and shoot several guns.
> 
> Come back on here and let me know what you like and I bet I can find it cheaper than any of the stores sell it around this area.



Does Tommy Bennet in Leonardtown still sell pistols?


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## AK-74me

toppick08 said:


> Does Tommy Bennet in Leonardtown still sell pistols?



I believe so, not certain though, I know he transfers them, but the transfer charge is pretty high so I hear


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## toppick08

AK-74me said:


> I believe so, not certain though, I know he transfers them, but the transfer charge is pretty high so I hear



Thanks.


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## J and M

If the pistol range by Andrews is still open, I think you can rent guns to shoot in there.  Shooters Paradise in NOVA has a variety of used pistols and a range.  You can try before you buy.  They may also do handgun safety courses there.

You should try several calibers and models to see what you like best.  I have a variety of calibers and my Kimber 1911 is my favorite for targets.  It is dead on accurate and I can put anything through it, handloads or store bought.  My 357 revolver is fun for plinkin around, but it's a revolver (personal preference, semi-auto over revolver).  My 9mm just sits in the safe because once I bought the Kimber the 9 isn't as fun to shoot...cheaper, but not as much fun.


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## Novus Collectus

J and M said:


> If the pistol range by Andrews is still open, I think you can rent guns to shoot in there.  Shooters Paradise in NOVA has a variety of used pistols and a range.  You can try before you buy.  They may also do handgun safety courses there.
> 
> ...



Maryland Small Arms is still there. http://www.msar.com/


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## Ponytail

GO to msar and rent their guns.  They may not have the exact gun make that you'll wind up with, but use the rentals to find the caliber that you may want.  Consider price of ammo if you plan to shoot regularly.  You can get one helluva a nice piece for $1500, but if you don't plan to shoot it all that often, a very nice shooter can be had for a 3rd of that.

Though, if I had $1500 to spare, I'd be gettin myself a .44mag Desert Eagle, in black and still have plenty left over for a bunch of ammo.


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## Magnum

Ponytail said:


> GO to msar and rent their guns.  They may not have the exact gun make that you'll wind up with, but use the rentals to find the caliber that you may want.  Consider price of ammo if you plan to shoot regularly.  You can get one helluva a nice piece for $1500, but if you don't plan to shoot it all that often, a very nice shooter can be had for a 3rd of that.
> 
> Though, if I had $1500 to spare, I'd be gettin myself a .44mag Desert Eagle, in black and still have plenty left over for a bunch of ammo.



Why not go for the 50?


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## Larry Gude

*Because...*



Magnum said:


> Why not go for the 50?



...the .44 is a freaking canon as it is.  

The .50 ought to come with a bi pod, folding stock and bayonet lug.


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## AK-74me

Larry Gude said:


> ...the .44 is a freaking canon as it is.
> 
> The .50 ought to come with a bi pod, folding stock and bayonet lug.




Really with a hot loaded .44 mag there is almost no difference than the .50 AE. Power in recoil are close to the same. The .50 AE ammo is alot harder to find and more expensive.

Here is a picture for some comparison of some of the big boys.

from left to right .50GI, .50AE, .44mag, .500WE, and S&W .500 mag.


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## Larry Gude

*Yes...*



AK-74me said:


> Really with a hot loaded .44 mag there is almost no difference than the .50 AE.



...and a certain Ron Paul fan around here proved that very fact to me by putting freaking craters in my plate rack one nice afternoon.


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## Ponytail

Larry Gude said:


> ...and a certain Ron Paul fan around here proved that very fact to me by putting freaking craters in my plate rack one nice afternoon.






The 50's are way too expensive, and quite frankly, just not any fun to shoot for very long.  I can shoot my Super Redhawk with 280 and 300 grain bullets, all day, and not wake up the next day with joint pain.

I've shot the DE 44 mag, and I love that gun.  Just a phenominal frame for that caliber.  Easy shooter.  Easy, easy...with open sights.

For my Super Redhawk, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it till I got the Holosite put on.  Now it's a fun plinker.   

The .44 makes the nieghbors at the range jump everybit as high as someone shooting a .50 DE.  I know that for a fact.  Add some hot ammo to throw a bit of flame in 3 directions for an extra attention getter.


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## J and M

Ponytail said:


> The .44 makes the nieghbors at the range jump everybit as high as someone shooting a .50 DE.  I know that for a fact.  Add some hot ammo to throw a bit of flame in 3 directions for an extra attention getter.




The 50 DE in an indoor range will rattle your fillings loose!


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## RadioPatrol

smilin said:


> I tend to buy weapons that I'm interested in firing. I shoot a Marlin  lever action for that old west experience, but my favorite has to be a Hawkins black powder. It doesn't kick as much as pushes you back. We actually got up to three shots a minute once (before my SF bud forgot the powder!).
> I'd like to get one of the old revolvers, something like a Navy Colt or Dragoon.



I have a Colt Navy .44 (CVA) and .36 (Navy Arms)

they are fun shooters ............ I used to "carry" mine every where 



Fairfax Police did not know what to do with it when they found it in my 78 VW Camper in a box between the seats .........


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## Thankful

Thanks for the good info.  Now what type of night sights would you put on a 9mm or .45?


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## jackers

I bought a Springfield XD.45 from The Tackle Box. Believe it or not, they were just a little more expensive than the stores I checked. I think they were only $15 more expensive than Bass Pro in Baltimore.

Anyway,
I like the XD lineup for a number of reasons
- Reliable, you could stuff a cat down the barrel and the thing won't misfire!
- High capacity, 14 .45 rounds, nuff said
- Stopping power, there is a huge debate about what has more stopping power, the .45 or the 9mm. Since it was for home defense too, I decided upon the caliber I felt most comfortable with
- Lightweight, even with the 13 round clip it feels lighter than my buddies 1911. With the 10 round clip I can definately feel the difference
- Saftey, I like how it doesn't have a hard safety. It has the double trigger (GLOCK style) but an additional rear grip safety as well. You have to have a propper grip on the handgun to operate it. I think that is the best way to go for home defense. If someone broke in my home in the middle of the night I would probably be pretty disoriented. Last thing I want to be doing is fumbling over a safety. 
- Fun to shoot, I shot the M9 Service Pistol (9mm) in the Marines and thought it was really snappy. The recoil seemed different at each shot. The XD .45 just feels solid. Just a heavier, solid recoil I guess. 
- Price, pretty cheap considering some of the others (H&K, Sig). I am trying to think back but it was somewhere under $600.

Anyway, it is a great gun. There are a lot of reviews on the net. Very reliable, guaranteed for life, and fun to shoot. Springfield has a great reputation and great customer service.


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## DEEKAYPEE8569

itsbob said:


> I can't believe you said 1911 and 9mm in the same sentence...


------------------------------
You saw that I used the term "novice," right?


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## AK-74me

jackers said:


> I bought a Springfield XD.45 from The Tackle Box. Believe it or not, they were just a little more expensive than the stores I checked. I think they were only $15 more expensive than Bass Pro in Baltimore.
> 
> Anyway,
> I like the XD lineup for a number of reasons
> - Reliable, you could stuff a cat down the barrel and the thing won't misfire!
> - High capacity, 14 .45 rounds, nuff said
> - Stopping power, there is a huge debate about what has more stopping power, the .45 or the 9mm. Since it was for home defense too, I decided upon the caliber I felt most comfortable with
> - Lightweight, even with the 13 round clip it feels lighter than my buddies 1911. With the 10 round clip I can definately feel the difference
> - Saftey, I like how it doesn't have a hard safety. It has the double trigger (GLOCK style) but an additional rear grip safety as well. You have to have a propper grip on the handgun to operate it. I think that is the best way to go for home defense. If someone broke in my home in the middle of the night I would probably be pretty disoriented. Last thing I want to be doing is fumbling over a safety.
> - Fun to shoot, I shot the M9 Service Pistol (9mm) in the Marines and thought it was really snappy. The recoil seemed different at each shot. The XD .45 just feels solid. Just a heavier, solid recoil I guess.
> - Price, pretty cheap considering some of the others (H&K, Sig). I am trying to think back but it was somewhere under $600.
> 
> Anyway, it is a great gun. There are a lot of reviews on the net. Very reliable, guaranteed for life, and fun to shoot. Springfield has a great reputation and great customer service.



I have one too, the 5" tactical in .45, I paid $560 NIB from a local dealer, which still sucks IMO, some parts of the country they sell for~$500. I think it is a decent design I just don't like how big it is. I have pretty big hands and I have to adjust my grip to release the mag which makes mag changes super slow.

As far as stopping power in handguns that is a myth, a .45 makes a slighter bigger hole than the 9mm, both will take someone down with a hit to CNS other than that though it is all about the bleed out, which bigger hole wins in. Most people weigh the pros and cons of the 2 based on bigger hole vs. in general higher capacity. The XD45 provides both although by doing so, like I pointed out earlier, makes the grips too beefy to do fast mag changes IMO.


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## clevalley

My office-mate has the .454 Casull he bought form our boss as a "coversation piece"... then he went and bought the .500 S&W when it came out because it was the biggest one out there - he shot it 5 times and sold it   What a dip!


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## Ponytail

clevalley said:


> My office-mate has the .454 Casull he bought form our boss as a "coversation piece"... then he went and bought the .500 S&W when it came out because it was the biggest one out there - he shot it 5 times and sold it   What a dip!



I'm liking the reviews of the new .480 Ruger.  

The .480 Ruger


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## itsbob

jackers said:


> Anyway,
> 
> - High capacity, 14 .45 rounds, nuff said
> - Fun to shoot, I shot the M9 Service Pistol (9mm) in the Marines and thought it was really snappy. The recoil seemed different at each shot. The XD .45 just feels solid. Just a heavier, solid recoil I guess.
> - Price, pretty cheap considering some of the others (H&K, Sig). I am trying to think back but it was somewhere under $600.
> 
> Anyway, it is a great gun. There are a lot of reviews on the net. Very reliable, guaranteed for life, and fun to shoot. Springfield has a great reputation and great customer service.



How big are the handgrips??  My 645 has a 10 shot capacity (single stack) and it's not very comfortable unless you have gorilla hands like mine.. 

I agree with the kick of the 9.. I shot the German MP5 (machine Pistol) and thought it was totally uncontrollable, liked the .45 Grease Gun a LOT better.

I can get an accurate second shot off a lot quicker with the .45 than I could the 9...  I'd still like to see what difference getting it ported would make, but I don't want to cut up my gun to find out I don't like it.


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## itsbob

Thankful said:


> Thanks for the good info.  Now what type of night sights would you put on a 9mm or .45?



What do you mean by "night sight"??

A flashlight holder? Personally wouldn't go with a flashlight.. makes for a great aiming point for an armed adversary.. 


Tritium Blades?  Change the factory fixed sights for adjustable rear sight, with tritium front and rear blades.. I think a good choice.. Line up the three glow in the dark dots and you're in business.

NIGHT SIGHTS - Tritium


Aimpoint?  If you aren't planning on carrying it, a good choice..


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## Larry Gude

*No it's...*



AK-74me said:


> As far as stopping power in handguns that is a myth,



...not. 

*You are *more shot getting hit with a .45 over a 9mm or a .40. 

All things being equal, bullet type, fps (850-1000 or so) standard powder charge, 5" barrel, a 9mm makes the plates go down. The .40 makes them go down a bit harder. The .45 makes them go down even harder. 

If I had to be shot with a handgun, I'd prefer to get hit with the smaller choice.


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## Larry Gude

*I do...*



AK-74me said:


> I I just don't like how big it is. I have pretty big hands and I have to adjust my grip to release the mag which makes mag changes super slow.



...agree that a double stack .45 is an awful lot to put in our hands. Double stacked nines aren't much better. 

1911's just fit SOOOO nice.


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## Magnum

Larry Gude said:


> ...agree that a double stack .45 is an awful lot to put in our hands. Double stacked nines aren't much better.
> 
> 1911's just fit SOOOO nice.



Thats why I am hesitant on getting the XD .45. It's just too wide. I mean I can get a good grip on it but it just have that "right" feel


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## Larry Gude

*Important...*



LOL said:


> What is a good gun?
> 
> Where in Southern MD can I buy one?
> 
> General shooting, not for sport shooting or hunting.



...consideration; There is a term known as 'limp wristing' that applies to auto's and it MATTERS if you ever need the gun to fire (self defense). You MUST practice and be aware of this or you may not get a second shot in an emergency.

What happens is you do not hold the weapon firmly enough to make it function properly. The first round fires, the slide comes back only part way, not fully, and strips the next round on it's way back into battery (ready to fire) and jams the next round as there was not enough time for the round to get into the chamber. Or the fired round doesn't clear and gets eaten by the gun. Point being you now have to clear the round which is not good if you need to be shooting.

It WILL happen. It has NOTHING to do with your size or strength. Women can hold an auto just fine to prevent this, big guys can mess up. 

Now, point is this rarely happens with 9mm's. The physics just work out nice. It happens more frequently with .40's and even more so with .45's. 

If you practice a bit, have it happen a couple times, learn to not flinch and learn a proper grip and stance, you'll will be fine. You just need to be aware of it if an auto is the way you're gonna go.


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## Magnum

One time I pulled out my .45 for a few of my cousins to shoot it. With one of my cousins the gun kept jamming... It never jambs  After 3 times I fired off the rest and it worked fine. I had him hold it up and figured it out He had his right index finger one the slide release and was pulling the trigger with his middle finger. With the pressure on the release when the slide came back it was binding


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## toppick08

Are 8mm pistols worth a toot?


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## Thankful

itsbob said:


> What do you mean by "night sight"??  UNQUOTE
> 
> Titanium sights are the ones I'm used to but I had a friend who had them and they "wore out" (didn't glow) and they had to be replaced within 5 years.  Just wondering if anyone had any good recomendations.  I don't want to have to keep re-investing in the same gun.
> 
> I'm comfortable with my accuracy with 9mm and will most likely stay with that for the home defense.  I'm thinking if I add the night sights I'm sure I can comeup with a bigger hole than I would with the .45 in a high stress situation for the stopping/bleeding out.


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## Larry Gude

*Are we...*



Thankful said:


> [ Titanium sights are the ones I'm used to but I had a friend who had them and they "wore out" (didn't glow) and they had to be replaced within 5 years.  Just wondering if anyone had any good recomendations.  I don't want to have to keep re-investing in the same gun.



...talking about tritium?

Trijicon, Inc. : Brilliant Aiming Solutions™

Not titanium?


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## AK-74me

Larry Gude said:


> ...not.
> 
> *You are *more shot getting hit with a .45 over a 9mm or a .40.
> 
> All things being equal, bullet type, fps (850-1000 or so) standard powder charge, 5" barrel, a 9mm makes the plates go down. The .40 makes them go down a bit harder. The .45 makes them go down even harder.
> 
> If I had to be shot with a handgun, I'd prefer to get hit with the smaller choice.



Based on the info. held within this link, (the links within this link too) it seems that most experts disagree. Your analogy about knocking down steel plates doesn't exactly translate to humans. I agree a 230 gr. bullet will probably knock a steel plate down with more force than a 115 gr.

AR15.COM


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## Larry Gude

*Here we go!*



AK-74me said:


> Based on the info. held within this link, (the links within this link too) it seems that most experts disagree. Your analogy about knocking down steel plates doesn't exactly translate to humans. I agree a 230 gr. bullet will probably knock a steel plate down with more force than a 115 gr.
> 
> AR15.COM



If I read this correctly, the wound channel for the .45 is better than the others. It's bigger and it meets the stated qualification of the 'FBI' guideline. 

It makes the biggest hole as well, another FBI criteria. 

In the real world, the FBI didn't move down in bullet size after stuff like this;

FBI-Miami Shootout

And most everything that gets into the endless gory details show that, by and large, bigger is better.


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## Ponytail

Larry Gude said:


> If I read this correctly, the wound channel for the .45 is better than the others. It's bigger and it meets the stated qualification of the 'FBI' guideline.
> 
> It makes the biggest hole as well, another FBI criteria.
> 
> In the real world, the FBI didn't move down in bullet size after stuff like this;
> 
> FBI-Miami Shootout
> 
> And most everything that gets into the endless gory details show that, by and large, bigger is better.



And this is another reason why my first handgun was the .44 mag, with the Holosite.  After seeing what it does to phonebooks, Woodchucks, gallon jugs of water,etc., I'd hate to be the one on the recieving end of a 300 gr hollowpoint.

The holosite makes a really nice night site.  Only you can see the red dot, and it's in an open field of view, not a tube, so target acquisition at night is cake.  No flashlight necessary.

The rednecks that I used to shoot with when living in Georgia used to get pissed.  We used to shoot at night.  The cans would already be moving before they could find their pins.


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## Ponytail

Basically, for stopping power, the argument for/against the calibers is ageless.

There is no such thing as a one shot stopper.  They are flukes.  It's been documented that criminals shot with everything from 38's to 12 guage slugs have kept on fighting.  Some, including the one with the 12 guage slug Center of Mass, have gone on to kill an officer prior to passing themselves.

You buy for Self Defense, what you are comfortable shooting, shooting accurately and quickly, and can shoot while moving.  Well placed QUALITY bullets from a 9mm will get you a dead criminal just as fast as a .45 can.

But I know, that in a tense situation, I'll be able to hit that target more frequently, and much quicker, with a 9mm than with a .40 or .45.

I did not buy my handguns, any of them, for Self Defense.  I do however carry from time to time, now that I'm not living in Md anymore, and I do have one readily available at home that is only accessible by me and impossible for the kids to reach, if for some reason they did find out that I even have guns in the house and I do have ammo that I have purchased for the strict purpose of self defense.

My next gun purchase will be a 9mm specifically for CCW, and I made that decision based on many factors, including the fact that I know my g/f can shoot it comfortably and hit the target with it every time.


----------



## Magnum

Ponytail said:


> Basically, for stopping power, the argument for/against the calibers is ageless.
> 
> There is no such thing as a one shot stopper.  They are flukes.  It's been documented that criminals shot with everything from 38's to 12 guage slugs have kept on fighting.  Some, including the one with the 12 guage slug Center of Mass, have gone on to kill an officer prior to passing themselves.
> 
> You buy for Self Defense, what you are comfortable shooting, shooting accurately and quickly, and can shoot while moving.  Well placed QUALITY bullets from a 9mm will get you a dead criminal just as fast as a .45 can.
> 
> But I know, that in a tense situation, I'll be able to hit that target more frequently, and much quicker, with a 9mm than with a .40 or .45.
> 
> I did not buy my handguns, any of them, for Self Defense.  I do however carry from time to time, now that I'm not living in Md anymore, and I do have one readily available at home that is only accessible by me and impossible for the kids to reach, if for some reason they did find out that I even have guns in the house and I do have ammo that I have purchased for the strict purpose of self defense.
> 
> My next gun purchase will be a 9mm specifically for CCW, and I made that decision based on many factors, including the fact that I know my g/f can shoot it comfortably and hit the target with it every time.


What state are you in now? 

Anyone know what the CCW is like for PA or WV? Is it as hard to get as one in MD?


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## Ponytail

Magnum said:


> What state are you in now?
> 
> Anyone know what the CCW is like for PA or WV? Is it as hard to get as one in MD?



I'm in PA.  It's easy...fairly easy, depending on the county. But for the most part, easy as filling out an app.  Can't have a criminal background.  Must have 2 verifiable, non-family, references. Costs $45 and takes approx 90 days.  And they do call EVERY number that you put on there.

You can download an app from the web...  Heres the one from my county...

Need all 3 pages, at the bottom of the link page.
Delaware County PA


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## toppick08

7mm Remington's and .300 Winchester's will cause a fugitive to stop dead in their tracks.......popcorn.


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## AK-74me

toppick08 said:


> 7mm Remington's and .300 Winchester's will cause a fugitive to stop dead in their tracks.......popcorn.



Rifles are a different story, my point is, there is no significant difference between .45acp and 9mm as far as "knockdown power" on a human target. I agree I want bigger and heavier for the most part in a HG. I think what I am trying to convey is that with today's premium rounds there is no significant differences in the major HG calibers. In ball ammo there is a bit more difference, I wouldn't feel under gunned having a 9mm with 15 rds. of 147gr. Speer Gold dots, no more than I would feel under gunned with 10 rds. of 230gr. Gold dots.

Ofcourse if available I'd always take a shot-gun or rifle, if available.


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## edinsomd

AK-74me said:


> People will reccomend their favorite gun in general, you should go and handle as many as possible before you decide what to buy.



This is the correct answer.  For a first firearm, I would recommend a .357 Magnum revolver.  A wheel gun is very easy to use, and this caliber can chamber less expensive .38s for target/training/plinking.  For social occasions, 125 grain Jacketed Hollow Points in .357 Mag are world class.
Ed


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## clevalley

edinsomd said:


> This is the correct answer.  For a first firearm, I would recommend a .357 Magnum revolver.  A wheel gun is very easy to use, and this caliber can chamber less expensive .38s for target/training/plinking.  For social occasions, 125 grain Jacketed Hollow Points in .357 Mag are world class.
> Ed



When my father dies I inherited his S&W Patrolman's Special .357 Magnum... one day I went out to shoot a whole crap-load of .38's with a buddy and bought a box of .357's for grins... it was a white box, with plain black writing - I think it was American Eagle or something along those line - VERY GENERIC looking.  We shot about 700 or so Ball Ammo before we broke these out...

The first one I squeezed off I thought I broke my eff'ing hand!  Man, those were some REALLY HOT factory loads!  My buddy swore I was holding the gun too loose so I gave it to him and he shot it... he quickly changed them out to .38's to finish the day after that!

A few weeks later we shot them up knowing what we were in for... man oh man did they throw fire! 

Bottom line - I love that gun - it is so easy to shoot... it is the first pistol my wife shot and she can shoot that gun ALL day long and have fun!


----------



## edinsomd

clevalley said:


> When my father dies I inherited his S&W Patrolman's Special .357 Magnum... one day I went out to shoot a whole crap-load of .38's with a buddy and bought a box of .357's for grins... it was a white box, with plain black writing - I think it was American Eagle or something along those line - VERY GENERIC looking.  We shot about 700 or so Ball Ammo before we broke these out...
> 
> The first one I squeezed off I thought I broke my eff'ing hand!  Man, those were some REALLY HOT factory loads!  My buddy swore I was holding the gun too loose so I gave it to him and he shot it... he quickly changed them out to .38's to finish the day after that!
> 
> A few weeks later we shot them up knowing what we were in for... man oh man did they throw fire!
> 
> Bottom line - I love that gun - it is so easy to shoot... it is the first pistol my wife shot and she can shoot that gun ALL day long and have fun!



I fondly remember the first time my nephew fired a .357, he was 15 and thought he was cool sh!t.  He fired some .38s, and watched me shoot .357. His turn, BLAM! rocked back on his heels hair blown back eyes wide all white and pistol pointed at the roof!  "Day-um Uncle Ed!"  Me, "Recover, sight picture, fire."  And he did!
Ed


----------



## AK-74me

edinsomd said:


> This is the correct answer.  For a first firearm, I would recommend a .357 Magnum revolver.  A wheel gun is very easy to use, and this caliber can chamber less expensive .38s for target/training/plinking.  For social occasions, 125 grain Jacketed Hollow Points in .357 Mag are world class.
> Ed



I'd go a step further and recommend a Ruger GP100 .357mag for a first revolver/handgun. They can be had for less than $500 here locally and they will last forever, no need to ever worry about shooting full power loads out of them because they well hold up to the hottest load. Sure maybe Ruger's aren't as "nice" as Smith's but they are less expensive and more rugged/durable anf IMO make a great first revolver.

Of course like any gun, you should atleast fondle it before buying.


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## Kyle

Ahhh.... I remember buying my first handgun...


... It was a dusky morning off of Eastern Avenue, when a street gentlemen by the name of D-Wane pulled up in his beat-up black van....


----------



## Monello

clevalley said:


> I personally own the Beretta 92F in the 9mm flavor - a really nice shooting gun, it feels big in your hands... Once I narrowed it down to the caliber I went and picked up every model made and settled on the Beretta because it FELT right.



I love my Beretta.  It has a nice feel in my hand.


----------



## glhs837

Monello said:


> I love my Beretta.  It has a nice feel in my hand.


----------



## black dog

Monello said:


> I love my Beretta.  It has a nice feel in my hand.



That's because you've never wrapped your hands around a Big Black Sig 226... 

 #CloseThread.


----------



## Kyle

black dog said:


> That's because you've never wrapped your hands around a Big Black Sig 226...



 

... Although do I feel the same way about my 1911s.


----------



## black dog

Kyle said:


> ... Although do I feel the same way about my 1911s.



 They were really popular and in fashion when the Model T was in production,  Just Say'in..


----------



## Kyle

black dog said:


> They were really popular and in fashion when the Model T was in production,  Just Say'in..



No respect!!!


----------



## black dog

Kyle said:


> No respect!!!
> 
> View attachment 124231


----------



## Kyle

black dog said:


> View attachment 124232


----------



## Gilligan

black dog said:


> They were really popular and in fashion when the Model T was in production,  Just Say'in..
> 
> View attachment 124230



I bought one of each, new...


----------



## black dog

A single stack and a hand crank,,,,,,,, I see you're easy to please...  Just Say'in
..


----------



## Kyle

This is no Model T...


----------



## black dog

Kyle said:


> This is no Model T...
> 
> View attachment 124244



 You're right, it's older and simpler than a Model T.  
 The Model T is modern compared to a M1911.
 Not much since in spraying Imron on a old turd.


----------



## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> This is no Model T...
> 
> View attachment 124244



BD is having a session...an episode...  he be a'ight tomorrow.


----------



## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> BD is having a session...an episode...  he be a'ight tomorrow.



Must be hormonal.


----------



## black dog

Kyle said:


> Must be hormonal.



 I can't make a vitamin, but I can make a hormoan...


----------



## Kyle

black dog said:


> I can't make a vitamin, but I can make a hormoan...


Short her $20?


----------



## black dog

Kyle said:


> Short her $20?



 I'm in Indiana,, those are Maryland prices.. Or so I've been told..


----------



## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> This is no Model T...


----------



## stgislander

Gilligan said:


> View attachment 124253



Per BD, you used the wrong "toner" cartridge.


----------



## Kyle

stgislander said:


> Per BD, you used the wrong "toner" cartridge.



Series 70 Printer and Series 80 cartridge?


----------



## black dog

Gilligan said:


> View attachment 124253



 Excellent..


----------



## black dog

stgislander said:


> Per BD, you used the wrong "toner" cartridge.



You gotta use the ones with the " dimple " in the middle....


----------



## black dog

Kyle said:


> Series 70 Printer and Series 80 cartridge?



 What is this 80 Series you speak of?


----------

