# Why are Jeeps so expensive?



## rpexie

I don't know much about vehicles, in searching around for a Jeep it seems they are very expensive even with upwards of 100k miles on them. I was wondering, do Jeeps last longer than most vehicles? Does anyone own a Jeep or have owned a Jeep that can give me some advice? Is it unwise to buy a Jeep with alot of miles on it? Thanks for any help!


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## bcp

rpexie said:


> I don't know much about vehicles, in searching around for a Jeep it seems they are very expensive even with upwards of 100k miles on them. I was wondering, do Jeeps last longer than most vehicles? Does anyone own a Jeep or have owned a Jeep that can give me some advice? Is it unwise to buy a Jeep with alot of miles on it? Thanks for any help!



I had a 98 grand cherokee that I bought new, sold it some years later with 160k on it still running and looking like new.
 problems with them back there were bad differentials, they would whine really loud, the a/c would go out ever 40k or so (i think they used re manufactured parts to make them.) and the door switches when out once


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## huntr1

If you're talking wrangler, the nice thing about them is that every part on them can be bought from a catalog, so once you have the title and VIN#, you can rebuild it forever.  You can also customize / modify to your heart's content with lift kits, engine changes, etc.


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## bobbyb

We have an '04 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 72k it looks and runs like new. We have not even had to replace the brake pads yet. Had the brakes checked this Spring and they are still in good shape. My son has an '06 Grand Cherokee he finally had his brake pad replaced at 92k it looks and runs great as well. His first Cherokee a '97was stolen and wrecked, it was a work of off-road art. We were all bummed out about that one. My other son just sold his 97 Wrangler, he needed a family car, so sad. All of our Jeeps have been fun to drive, very reliable and they hold their resale value.


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## aps45819

rpexie said:


> Why are Jeeps so expensive?



The Canadian build quality maintains their value


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## EmptyTimCup

rpexie said:


> I don't know much about vehicles, in searching around for a Jeep it seems they are very expensive even with upwards of 100k miles on them. I was wondering, do Jeeps last longer than most vehicles?




with regular oil changes, the 4.0 Inline 6 will go 2 to 300,000 miles easy


Cherokee XJ's and Wrangler YJ's are popular to modify for a better off road experience 

Grand Wagoneers [SJ series] are apparently popular as well


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## daylily

huntr1 said:


> If you're talking wrangler, the nice thing about them is that every part on them can be bought from a catalog, so once you have the title and VIN#, you can rebuild it forever.  You can also customize / modify to your heart's content with lift kits, engine changes, etc.



That's right.  I had a Wrangler for a while, absolutely loved it.  Bought it in NY in a snowstorm and the salesman told me to test drive it up a snowbank.       Lots of options to modify it to make it even more fun.  I also had a couple of Commanders, which I loved as well.  Mom has a Liberty and has had no issues whatsoever.

Like others have said, they hold their value well.  I miss my Jeeps. The only thing I don't miss is the gas mileage.


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## bcp

EmptyTimCup said:


> with regular oil changes, the 4.0 Inline 6 will go 2 to 300,000 miles easy
> 
> 
> Cherokee XJ's and Wrangler YJ's are popular to modify for a better off road experience
> 
> Grand Wagoneers [SJ series] are apparently popular as well



Had the 4.0 in the 92 sport, it was ok, then when I bought the 98 Grand, we had the 5.9 in that one.. no issue to speak of when accelerating onto the highway.


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## EmptyTimCup

bcp said:


> .. no issue to speak of when accelerating onto the highway.





Inline 6 cylinders are all about torque ... not RPM's and horse power


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## DEEKAYPEE8569

rpexie said:


> I don't know much about vehicles, in searching around for a Jeep it seems they are very expensive even with upwards of 100k miles on them. I was wondering, do Jeeps last longer than most vehicles? Does anyone own a Jeep or have owned a Jeep that can give me some advice? Is it unwise to buy a Jeep with alot of miles on it? Thanks for any help!



As the other forumites said, Jeeps _are_ fairly dependable/maintenance-free; but _if you do_ have to replace a part; more than likely, it's gonna be a dealer only-type item.

I am only saying this because I have a '97 Chrysler and pretty much everything I've had to repair/replace has been a dealer item.
I suspect Jeeps to be pretty much the same way.


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## EmptyTimCup

DEEKAYPEE8569 said:


> As the other forumites said, Jeeps _are_ fairly dependable/maintenance-free; but _if you do_ have to replace a part; more than likely, it's gonna be a dealer only-type item.
> 
> I am only saying this because I have a '97 Chrysler and pretty much everything I've had to repair/replace has been a dealer item.
> I suspect Jeeps to be pretty much the same way.





well mine is an 86 and a 67 ...........


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## nomoney

I LOVE my wrangler!!  Taking the doors and top off - nothing beats it!  Not sure what you mean by expensive; they're pretty much in line with other vehicles.  Paid 23k for mine, 2010 - fully loaded 4 door.


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## DEEKAYPEE8569

EmptyTimCup said:


> well mine is an 86 and a 67 ...........



....._o-kayyy....._
Well, you are one of the lucky one's if you haven't had to replace anything.


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## DEEKAYPEE8569

nomoney said:


> I LOVE my wrangler!!  Taking the doors and top off - nothing beats it!  *Not sure what you mean by expensive*; they're pretty much in line with other vehicles.  Paid 23k for mine, 2010 - fully loaded 4 door.



Who?.....Me?
*I* never said anything anything being "expensive"; although.....dealer items _usually are_ a tad higher priced.


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## EmptyTimCup

DEEKAYPEE8569 said:


> ....._o-kayyy....._
> Well, you are one of the lucky one's if you haven't had to replace anything.






I would not go to the stealership .......


the 86 Grand has a new Jasper Motor and only 64 k miles 

86 Grand Wagoneer pictures by Cammobus - Photobucket

the 67 was drug out of someone front yard in Marshal Hall ..... and while rusty, it is complete and runs ......

Jeep Engine pictures by Cammobus - Photobucket


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## nomoney

DEEKAYPEE8569 said:


> Who?.....Me?
> *I* never said anything anything being "expensive"; although.....dealer items _usually are_ a tad higher priced.


 

No durhard; to the person who started the thread asking why they're so expensive.


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## dave1959

The same things that dictate the price of other vehicles...Supply and demand.


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## bcp

EmptyTimCup said:


> Inline 6 cylinders are all about torque ... not RPM's and horse power



I went from the 4.0 to the 5.9, after stomping the 5.9 the first time, it was like you were on a ten speed with the 4.0


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## DEEKAYPEE8569

nomoney said:


> No *durhard*; to the person who started the thread asking why they're so expensive.



WTF??? You sound like a 10 year old who doesn't know any "four-letter- words."

Go 'way kid, ya bothah me.....


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## Bonehead

That is her normal bent schnitz can attitude IMHO. A Beyotch is a Beyotch no mistaking that.


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## rpexie

Thanks everyone for taking the time to share some info. I think I will end up getting a Jeep and Ill feel better buying one with a bit of miles on it now that I know they can last a good deal longer. =)


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## EmptyTimCup

there is one on 373 beween brandywine and accokeek  for $ 3500 


XJ series, 32's maybe ........ small lift kit


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## rpexie

Thanks everyone for taking the time to share some info. I think I will end up getting a Jeep and Ill feel better buying one with a bit of miles on it now that I know they can last a good deal longer. =)


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## corollinout

I'm on my second one and looking for another one. Once you get one you kind of fall for them. My first was a 91 YJ and after I sold it I wanted it back. Finally got another project one that I have been rebuilding for two years which is an 81 CJ7. Once I get my Yukon paid off, I am going to be on the look out to get a TJ or newer. They are easy to work on and you don't need to go to the dealer for everything. You can just about build a new one from Quadratec.com or 4wd.com.


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## warneckutz

nomoney said:


> No durhard; to the person who started the thread asking why they're so expensive.





DEEKAYPEE8569 said:


> WTF??? You sound like a 10 year old who doesn't know any "four-letter- words."
> 
> Go 'way kid, ya bothah me.....



  I see this has been going on for a while... sharp as a marble.


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## GURPS

I <3 my wagoner


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## Christy

I love my Jeep Wrangler.  I bought it new in 2007 and I will never get rid of it, although it has been tempting since the trade in value is so high, even with the high miles.  I have over 90K miles on it.


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## Chasey_Lane

Christy said:


> I love my Jeep Wrangler.  I bought it new in 2007 and I will never get rid of it, although it has been tempting since the trade in value is so high, even with the high miles.  I have over 90K miles on it.



Hubby loves his, too!  We bought it new in May 2012 and it's got just over 11K miles.  I just wish it had heated seats.


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## warneckutz

Chasey_Lane said:


> Hubby loves his, too!  We bought it new in May 2012 and it's got just over 11K miles.  I just wish it had heated seats.



You could get Wet Okole seat covers.  They offer the heated seat and lumbar support.


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## warneckutz

warneckutz said:


> You could get Wet Okole seat covers.  They offer the heated seat and lumbar support.



It *is* neoprene though, so that's something to consider if it's going to get a LOT of sunlight (which they should)... neoprene seems to fade pretty quick as I understand it.


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## dave1959

GURPS said:


> I <3 my wagoner



whats a "wagoner"..???? Jeep used to make a Wagoneer.


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## b23hqb

Chasey_Lane said:


> Hubby loves his, too!  We bought it new in May 2012 and it's got just over 11K miles.  I just wish it had heated seats.



Heated seats? Which would only make it even more expensive, hence getting back to the OP of the thread.

The reason(s) Jeeps are so expensive:

1. They are cute and hip, and women love them
2. Men buy them for their women
3. Men buy them to get women
4. Women buy them because they are cute and hip which makes them -
5. In demand, especially with heated seats
6. They have good resale value because of 1 - 6, which jacks up the price of a Jeep.

Popeye The Jeep 1938 - YouTube

Simple economics. Capitalism does work, even at the individual level.


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## desertrat

warneckutz said:


> It *is* neoprene though, so that's something to consider if it's going to get a LOT of sunlight (which they should)... neoprene seems to fade pretty quick as I understand it.



Had those for quite a while in my truck. They were great. The seat belt zipping up and down cut the drivers side though.


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## warneckutz

desertrat said:


> Had those for quite a while in my truck. They were great. The seat belt zipping up and down cut the drivers side though.



Damn... woof.


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## glhs837

b23hqb said:


> Heated seats? Which would only make it even more expensive, hence getting back to the OP of the thread.
> 
> The reason(s) Jeeps are so expensive:
> 
> 1. They are cute and hip, and women love them
> 2. Men buy them for their women
> 3. Men buy them to get women
> 4. Women buy them because they are cute and hip which makes them -
> 5. In demand, especially with heated seats
> 6. They have good resale value because of 1 - 6, which jacks up the price of a Jeep.
> 
> Popeye The Jeep 1938 - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> Simple economics. Capitalism does work, even at the individual level.




And the fact that they have a worldwide reputation for toughness and proven offroad capability has nothing to do with it? Nothing at all? 

dont mistake me, I have never owned one, and realize they make bonehead moves like any other company, but they do make some products that do exactly what they are advertised to, and more. Thats part of why they sell and have good resale.


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## Bay_Kat

I've been wanting to get a jeep for a while, been looking around.  Finally go serious and I'm going to look at this one today.  They really are expensive, but after doing a lot of research, they are worth the money.


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## warneckutz

Bay_Kat said:


> I've been wanting to get a jeep for a while, been looking around.  Finally go serious and I'm going to look at this one today.  They really are expensive, but after doing a lot of research, they are worth the money.



Used Cars, New Cars, Reviews, Photos and Opinions - CarGurus

I used them to get an idea if it was well-priced or not.

Good luck!  Let us know!


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## sockgirl77

Both my mother and father have had Grand Cherokees. My father had one in the early 90s. My mother had two, '98 and '01. All 3 of them spent quite a bit of time in the shop. All 3 were well taken care of. But, I have friends that have had Wranglers for years and they're still running like champs after taking severe beatings from muddin'.


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## Bay_Kat

warneckutz said:


> Used Cars, New Cars, Reviews, Photos and Opinions - CarGurus
> 
> I used them to get an idea if it was well-priced or not.
> 
> Good luck!  Let us know!



Went out this morning and just got home with this.


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## GURPS

Bay_Kat said:


> Went out this morning and just got home with this.


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## Bay_Kat

It's an '08, had one owner who used it as a show vehicle.  Only has 40k miles on it.


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## corollinout

I've had a YJ and now own a CJ. Love em and want a TJ or another YJ. The JKs are too much plastic for me. 

I wouldn't turn one down though lol.


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## Bay_Kat

corollinout said:


> I've had a YJ and now own a CJ. Love em and want a TJ or another YJ. The JKs are too much plastic for me.
> 
> I wouldn't turn one down though lol.



Guess I need to learn the lingo.


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## GURPS

corollinout said:


> I've had a YJ and now own a CJ.
> Love em and want a TJ or another YJ.
> The JKs are too much plastic for me.





Bay_Kat said:


> Guess I need to learn the lingo.



Manufactures Models Codes

CJ - Jeep from 45 - 86 [basically everything in the early days was a CJ until the Jeepster came out in the 1950's]

YJ - 87 - 95
TJ - 96 - on
KJ - '02 - on


My Grand Wagoneer is an SJ

*Identify Your Jeep: Understanding Jeeps Model Codes For Each Year*


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## GURPS

or this list:


# MA: In 1941 this was the first prototype in the development of the Jeep. The M indicates a military vehicle and the A the first model.
# MB: This is the standard WWII military Jeep built from 1942-1945. The B indicated the second model of the series. (Just a note the Ford versions of the same Jeep were called the GPW. G for government, P for 80 inch wheel base and W for Willys.
# CJ-2: The first of the civilian model Jeeps. CJ stands for Civilian Jeep built from 1944-1945.
# CJ-2A: Civilian Jeep built from 1945-1949
# CJ-3A: Civilian Jeep built from 1948-1953, slight differences in body measurement.
# M-38: A military version of the CJ-3A but without tailgate and other modifications. Willys called it the MC model. Built from 1950-1955.
# CJ-3B: Very similar to CJ-3A but had a higher hood and allowed the use of the F-head engine. 1953-1964.
# M-606: Military version of the CJ-3B built from 1954-1968.
# CJ-4: Prototype in 1950 never saw production.
# CJ-V35U: Modified CJ-3A built in 1950 for the Navy.
# VJ: Early 2 wheel drive Jeepsters built in 1949-1950.
# M38A1: Military Jeep. Also known as the MD was a forerunner to the CJ-5. Built between 1954-1957 and maybe as far as 1971.
# FC-150: This was a pickup, cab forward, 80 inch wheelbase built from 1956-1964.
# FC-170: This was a pickup, cab forward, 103 inch wheelbase built from 1957-1964.
# CJ-5: Civilian Jeep, 81 inch wheelbase built from 1954-1971 and the 83.5 inch wheelbase from 1972-1986.
# CJ-6: Civilian Jeep with a 20 " longer wheelbase than the CJ5 built from 1956-1975.
# CJ-7: Updated CJ-5 with a 93.5" wheelbase built from 1976-1986.
# CJ-8: Pickup design with a 103.5" wheelbase called the Scrambler. Built from 1982-1986.
# CJ-10: Pickup version 110" wheelbase built for the military and sold overseas there was a shorter model call the CJ-10A.
# C-101: Jeepster built from 1966-1973.
# M-151: Military vehicle built by Jeep and designed by Ford. Full independent suspension with a unibody design.
# M-422/M-422A1: Built by AMC for the Marines in 1964.
# M-715: 1 1/4 ton truck built by Jeep in 1967-1969.
# DJ: various models of 2 wheel drive Jeeps similar to some CJ models.
# MJ: The Jeep Comanche pickup. Built from 1986-1992. J stands for Jeep and M is just a model number.
# XJ: The Jeep Cherokee built from 1984-2001.
# SJ or FSJ: A Fullsize Jeep Wagoneer or Cherokee built from 1963-1991.
# J: A fullsize Jeep Gladiator pickup built from 1963-1987.
# YJ: The Jeep Wrangler model built from 1987-1996.
# TJ: The Jeep Wrangler model built form 1997-Current.
# ZJ: The GrandCherokee built from 1993-1998.
# WJ: The current Grand Cherokee model built from 1999-2005.
# KJ: The Jeep Liberty.
# WK: JeepGrandCherokee 2006-
# XK: Jeep Commander 2006-
# JK: Jeep Wrangler model built from 2007-


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## glhs837

2012 *LOADED* JEEP WRANGLER RUBICON 4-DOOR

Here you go. Almost as pricey as a new one, but only 13K miles, and about 10K in mods, and nice ones at that. The winch and bumpers are a great deal.


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## Christy

glhs837 said:


> 2012 *LOADED* JEEP WRANGLER RUBICON 4-DOOR
> 
> Here you go. Almost as pricey as a new one, but only 13K miles, and about 10K in mods, and nice ones at that. The winch and bumpers are a great deal.


 
Very nice, I want it,  but I am cheap and could never bring myself to pay nearly $40K for any vehicle.


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## Bay_Kat

glhs837 said:


> 2012 *LOADED* JEEP WRANGLER RUBICON 4-DOOR
> 
> Here you go. Almost as pricey as a new one, but only 13K miles, and about 10K in mods, and nice ones at that. The winch and bumpers are a great deal.



That's pretty.


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## glhs837

Christy said:


> Very nice, I want it,  but I am cheap and could never bring myself to pay nearly $40K for any vehicle.



Were I an offroader, I might, given that this thing is the best factory off-road vehicle you can buy short of maybe a 70K Range Rover or 90K Mercedes G-wagen.  You get what you pay for, and in this case, you do get a lot.


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## Bay_Kat

glhs837 said:


> Were I an offroader, I might, given that this thing is the best factory off-road vehicle you can buy short of maybe a 70K Range Rover or 90K Mercedes G-wagen.  You get what you pay for, and in this case, you do get a lot.



For that price, I wouldn't want to get it dirty.


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## glhs837

Well, thats what it's made for......I knew a guy loved Corvettes. Told he he never put his foot all the way to the floor, never went faster than 85.......didnt want to hurt it.........

Last new 4wd vehicle I bought was a 1989 Ford Ranger pickup. Two weeks later I had it out at one of CA Off-Road Recreational Vehicle parks (ORV), yes, they have parks just for off-roaders. Trails rated for difficulty, even a couple of pieces of playground equipment. One was an actual balance board, like a huge teeter totter, another was a section of trail shaped with huge rocks to replicate a portion of the Rubicon Trail, another was a huge pit filled with tractor tires.


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## Bay_Kat

glhs837 said:


> Well, thats what it's made for......I knew a guy loved Corvettes. Told he he never put his foot all the way to the floor, never went faster than 85.......didnt want to hurt it.........
> 
> Last new 4wd vehicle I bought was a 1989 Ford Ranger pickup. Two weeks later I had it out at one of CA Off-Road Recreational Vehicle parks (ORV), yes, they have parks just for off-roaders. Trails rated for difficulty, even a couple of pieces of playground equipment. One was an actual balance board, like a huge teeter totter, another was a section of trail shaped with huge rocks to replicate a portion of the Rubicon Trail, another was a huge pit filled with tractor tires.



The guy was showing me the detachable sway bars and I was like, okay, like I'm ever going to get this thing near mud.  My son was down in October with his truck and found 5 really nice trails within a few miles of my house, I'll bet when hubby gets home, we'll be hitting those trails.


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## warneckutz

Bay_Kat said:


> Went out this morning and just got home with this.



Nice!



I just ordered this-
Novus 8 oz Polish Kit, Plastic Cleaner, Polish & Scratch Remover : Amazon.com : Automotive

My windows need a polishing badly... supposedly this is good stuff, for future reference.


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## itsbob

Maybe they'll come down in price when they start not-building them in China..


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## Bay_Kat

warneckutz said:


> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> I just ordered this-
> Novus 8 oz Polish Kit, Plastic Cleaner, Polish & Scratch Remover : Amazon.com : Automotive
> 
> My windows need a polishing badly... supposedly this is good stuff, for future reference.



Today, I ordered a set of the hand grips like in your picture, I also ordered a set of tail light guards and neoprene seat covers.  Fun ordering stuff, but the Jeep doesn't need much.


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## corollinout

Just Empty Every Pocket

It happens.


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## Bay_Kat

Got a big white Shepherd that I love to take everywhere, but she sheds everywhere, I was looking at this, a little pricey though.

Canine Covers® - Jeep Wrangler 2008-2009 Custom Rear Seat Protector


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## glhs837

itsbob said:


> Maybe they'll come down in price when they start not-building them in China..





Chrysler adding 200 jobs at Ohio Jeep Wrangler plant


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## Bay_Kat

glhs837 said:


> Chrysler adding 200 jobs at Ohio Jeep Wrangler plant



That Jeep is muddy.


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## RPMDAD

Had an old Jeepster Commando a long time ago, had hard top and rag top, fun vehicle to drive. It was an old swamp buggy i bought off some guy stationed at Andrews who was from Georgia. remember the old Kaiser Jeep stickers under the hood.


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## GURPS

RPMDAD said:


> Had an old Jeepster Commando a long time ago, had hard top and rag top, fun vehicle to drive.



66 - 71 Jeepster Commando [made by kaiser]

72/73  Commando [Made by AMC]


*Jeepster 1*, *Jeepster 2,* *Jeepster 3*, *Jeepster 4*, *Jeepster 5*, 


when I 1st acquired it out of some guys yard 

*Sad Looking Jeepster*


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## b23hqb

glhs837 said:


> And the fact that they have a worldwide reputation for toughness and proven offroad capability has nothing to do with it? Nothing at all?
> 
> dont mistake me, I have never owned one, and realize they make bonehead moves like any other company, but they do make some products that do exactly what they are advertised to, and more. Thats part of why they sell and have good resale.



Of course jeeps have a good history of able to handle tough off road situations since their development for the military in early WWII.

I have several friends that are avid hunters and outdoorsmen, and use their jeeps during those activities. The rest of the time, after the jeeps have been cleaned from the activity, they are driven by their womenfolk because they are cute and hip, while the dudes get behind the wheel of their trucks or familymobiles.

Jeeps are fun to drive.

Just sayin'.....


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## glhs837

b23hqb said:


> Of course jeeps have a good history of able to handle tough off road situations since their development for the military in early WWII.
> 
> I have several friends that are avid hunters and outdoorsmen, and use their jeeps during those activities. The rest of the time, after the jeeps have been cleaned from the activity, they are driven by their womenfolk because they are cute and hip, while the dudes get behind the wheel of their trucks or familymobiles.
> 
> Jeeps are fun to drive.
> 
> Just sayin'.....




I know most are driven for that reason too, same reason you see the 1-2 kids behind Mom in the seven passenger sport ute with a 6,000lb tow rating. 

Daughter thought she wanted a Jeep til I put in a small sporty car with a five speed and a good suspension


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## Bay_Kat

Question, today I ordered headlight and turn signal guards, in order to put them on, I think the grill has to come off.  I want to do it myself so it's done when my husband comes home at the end of April.  I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but the question is, is it really difficult and can I do it by myself or should I get someone to help?


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## glhs837

Bay_Kat said:


> Question, today I ordered headlight and turn signal guards, in order to put them on, I think the grill has to come off.  I want to do it myself so it's done when my husband comes home at the end of April.  I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but the question is, is it really difficult and can I do it by myself or should I get someone to help?



Does this help?

How to install headlight protectors on Jeep Wrangler, 2011 - YouTube


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## Bay_Kat

glhs837 said:


> Does this help?
> 
> How to install headlight protectors on Jeep Wrangler, 2011 - YouTube



Yes it does, I should have thought of that, I do a lot of repairs from youtube videos.


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## itsbob

glhs837 said:


> Chrysler adding 200 jobs at Ohio Jeep Wrangler plant



Production starts in China in 2014.

Until then that plant has to make enough for the international market.  Come 2014 when the europeans can get cheaper imports from China?


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## warneckutz

Bay_Kat said:


> Today, I ordered a set of the hand grips like in your picture, I also ordered a set of tail light guards and neoprene seat covers.  Fun ordering stuff, but the Jeep doesn't need much.



I just purchased some Drake Grille Inserts and a a tailgate guard for the "trunk area"... whoever had it before scratched up the paint a little bit and this'll cover that area and protect it.

It gets addicting after awhile... a little something here, a little something there....


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## glhs837

itsbob said:


> Production starts in China in 2014.
> 
> Until then that plant has to make enough for the international market.  Come 2014 when the europeans can get cheaper imports from China?



I dont mind them adding production overseas, as long as they are not replacing the production they do here.


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## Bay_Kat

Got the seat covers today and put them on.  All those straps!  I don't think those things are going anywhere. Wow!


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## itsbob

glhs837 said:


> I dont mind them adding production overseas, as long as they are not replacing the production they do here.



Where do you think the Chinese, the Mid-East and Europe get their Jeeps from now?

In 2014 they'll be getting them from China..


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## warneckutz

Bay_Kat said:


> Got the seat covers today and put them on.  All those straps!  I don't think those things are going anywhere. Wow!



What kind of seat covers?  Brand?


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## glhs837

itsbob said:


> Where do you think the Chinese, the Mid-East and Europe get their Jeeps from now?
> 
> In 2014 they'll be getting them from China..




So they should expand production here, across an ocean from the customers? Like the Japanese, it only makes sense to build your product where the buyers are.


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## itsbob

glhs837 said:


> So they should expand production here, across an ocean from the customers? Like the Japanese, it only makes sense to build your product where the buyers are.



You're totally missing the point.

Jeeps are being sold in China and the Mid-East and Asia now.. 

THOSE Jeeps are being built here in the US, there are no other manuafacturers of Jeep products that I'm aware of.

now how many are being sold in those areas I'm not really sure but I would be it's over 10,000.  If each Jeep built represents a 1/2 a man year of labor (guesstimate again) that's 5,000 jobs that are here in the US supporting the Asia and Mid-East markets.

When the China production facility starts to produce those numbers every year (open in 2014, I would expect full on about 2016 or 17?), those 5000 workers will no longer be needed in the US plants.

I also doubt things like dashboards, brake pedals, linkages, fuel lines, engines.. etc.. etc.. will be made in the US and shipped to China to be put in the vehicles.  They may do things that way in the beginning but there is no real cost savings in doing it that way, and once the local manufacturing base catches up there will be no need to.

Producing Jeeps (or any "US Vehicle") other than in the US costs the US jobs.


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## glhs837

You would be surprised at how many pieces of a domestic vehicle are made in other countries. Of domestically by branches of overseas based companies like Bosch, or Continental Teves. 

How much production goes over, and how many jobs are lost or not here, I cant say. 

Chrysler announces deal to build Jeeps in China

Chrysler announces deal to build Jeeps in China


More data for analysis. Doesnt look like it's going to cut into US production, because right now they dont sell many because import tariffs mean they are silly expensive.


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## itsbob

glhs837 said:


> You would be surprised at how many pieces of a domestic vehicle are made in other countries. Of domestically by branches of overseas based companies like Bosch, or Continental Teves.
> 
> How much production goes over, and how many jobs are lost or not here, I cant say.
> 
> Chrysler announces deal to build Jeeps in China
> 
> Chrysler announces deal to build Jeeps in China
> 
> 
> More data for analysis. Doesnt look like it's going to cut into US production, because right now they dont sell many because import tariffs mean they are silly expensive.




40,000 just in China alone.. in 2011

and lets not forget about another market that is being supported with US production (today)

In late February of this year, Fiat signed a letter of intent with Russia’s Sberbank to provide financing for and take a minority equity stake in a joint venture to produce Jeeps in Russia. Initial capacity will be 120,000 units, according to a Fiat press release. There was no news on what models will be produced. 


So that's 160,000 Jeeps a year NOT being made in the US...


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## warneckutz

So.......


Yeah... getting my grille inserts today, and my tailgate guard... 

And I'm gonna try and get the scratches out of my plastic windows this weekend if the weather is nice and I'm not out car shopping...


Yeah...


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## Bay_Kat

warneckutz said:


> So.......
> 
> 
> Yeah... getting my grille inserts today, and my *tailgate guard*...
> 
> And I'm gonna try and get the scratches out of my plastic windows this weekend if the weather is nice and I'm not out car shopping...
> 
> 
> Yeah...



put mine on yesterday, they look nice and serve a purpose.  The front light guards should come today and that's about all I'm doing right now. 

Why car shopping?


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## warneckutz

Bay_Kat said:


> put mine on yesterday, they look nice and serve a purpose.  The front light guards should come today and that's about all I'm doing right now.
> 
> Why car shopping?



I do like those tail light guards!  I was thinking about those, but I'm going for a little security next.  I'm getting the hood lock and the steel glovebox for mine... I may invest in the alarm system that can sense if something passes through it's invisible barrier (convertibles have them, I believe... microwave technology or something, it's been awhile since I've looked).

Are you getting a tire cover?  I was going to get "4.0L Inside" that looks like the Intel symbol, so when I pull up to those JK's... they know who's BOSS . 



BUTTTTTTTT... I may just get a basic cover by Bestop, they have the same texture and color scheme as the tops.

Oh... I'm looking to replace my Mazda I think... Looking hard at Hyundai's... Maybe the Santa Fe for SUV...

Haven't really been able to compare a Sonata and Elantra...


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## Bay_Kat

warneckutz said:


> I do like those tail light guards!  I was thinking about those, but I'm going for a little security next.  I'm getting the hood lock and the steel glovebox for mine... I may invest in the alarm system that can sense if something passes through it's invisible barrier (convertibles have them, I believe... microwave technology or something, it's been awhile since I've looked).
> 
> Are you getting a tire cover?  I was going to get "4.0L Inside" that looks like the Intel symbol, so when I pull up to those JK's... they know who's BOSS .
> 
> 
> 
> BUTTTTTTTT... I may just get a basic cover by Bestop, they have the same texture and color scheme as the tops.
> 
> Oh... I'm looking to replace my Mazda I think... Looking hard at Hyundai's... Maybe the Santa Fe for SUV...
> 
> Haven't really been able to compare a Sonata and Elantra...



I thought about getting the tire cover, still haven't decided if I am or what I'm going to get.


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## glhs837

Do they really steal stuff from under the hoods of Jeeps? I mean if you leave it at the Park and Ride for 8 hours a day, but if you are leaving it at 2187 or WalMart, I wouldnt think the risk was too high.


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## warneckutz

glhs837 said:


> Do they really steal stuff from under the hoods of Jeeps? I mean if you leave it at the Park and Ride for 8 hours a day, but if you are leaving it at 2187 or WalMart, I wouldnt think the risk was too high.



I was thinking that it's easy to get under the hood.  You could grab something or destroy something pretty easy.


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## glhs837

warneckutz said:


> I was thinking that it's easy to get under the hood.  You could grab something or destroy something pretty easy.



Which was my point, you could, but whats the reality of the threat. Whats your exposure to that threat? Are Jeeps hit for underhood theft often? I dont know, but thinking back over crime reports, I cant recall people reporting stuff ripped from Jeeps engine bays.


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## Bay_Kat

I'm looking at spare tire covers, found one I really like, but not sure how the sizing works.  The tires I have are 33 X 12.50 R18.  I don't see that size on any covers. Would I use the 18 part?


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## warneckutz

Bay_Kat said:


> I'm looking at spare tire covers, found one I really like, but not sure how the sizing works.  The tires I have are 33 X 12.50 R18.  I don't see that size on any covers. Would I use the 18 part?



All Things Jeep - Spare Tire Cover: 4.0L Inside Oval Design

here ya go... sizing chart is at the bottom


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## Bay_Kat

warneckutz said:


> All Things Jeep - Spare Tire Cover: 4.0L Inside Oval Design
> 
> here ya go... sizing chart is at the bottom



I looked at that one, and I don't see the 33 R18, there's a 35, so confused.


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## itsbob

Bay_Kat said:


> I'm looking at spare tire covers, found one I really like, but not sure how the sizing works.  The tires I have are 33 X 12.50 R18.  I don't see that size on any covers. Would I use the 18 part?



33 is the diameter of the tire is it not??

12.5 is the width of the tire, and the 18 is the size of the rim..

For a tire cover you'd be interested in the 33 and the 12.5...
18 is NA for a tire cover.

ANy of the 33X12.5 will work no matter if the last number is 16 18 or 22..


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## Bay_Kat

itsbob said:


> 33 is the diameter of the tire is it not??
> 
> 12.5 is the width of the tire, and the 18 is the size of the rim..
> 
> For a tire cover you'd be interested in the 33 and the 12.5...
> 18 is NA for a tire cover.
> 
> ANy of the 33X12.5 will work no matter if the last number is 16 18 or 22..



Thanks, I did a bunch of research and found out exactly what you said. Have one on order now.


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## itsbob

Bay_Kat said:


> Thanks, I did a bunch of research and found out exactly what you said. Have one on order now.



Snatch the mouse out of my hand...

Ahhhh so close grasshopper

... soon you too will be a certified Google pro..


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## Bay_Kat

Took me about an hour today, but I got the front light guards on. Youtube and the owner's manual.


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## warneckutz

itsbob said:


> 33 is the diameter of the tire is it not??
> 
> 12.5 is the width of the tire, and the 18 is the size of the rim..
> 
> For a tire cover you'd be interested in the 33 and the 12.5...
> 18 is NA for a tire cover.
> 
> ANy of the 33X12.5 will work no matter if the last number is 16 18 or 22..



Nerd...


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## warneckutz

I kinda/sorta want a second Wrangler... something to throw a huge suspension on along with some huge tires...


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## Bay_Kat

I was sitting outside in the Jeep today waiting for my daughter to run into Subway and this woman comes up and says "OMG, your Jeep is so beautiful, what a sharp ride, I love this Jeep. Who makes this?"  Wut?


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## GURPS

Bay_Kat said:


> .... "OMG, your Jeep is so beautiful, what a sharp ride, I love this Jeep. Who makes this?"
> 
> Wut?




well the history is a bit complicated ....


*Willy's-Overland* - wins the contract to build the vehicle designed by American Bantam knows as the Willys MB, as well as Ford and American Bantam [who never manufactured more than a few 100]



> In 1938 Joseph W. Frazer had joined Willys from Chrysler as chief executive. He saw a need to improve the firm's 4-cylinder engine to handle the punishment to which the Jeep would be subjected. This objective was brilliantly achieved by ex-Studebaker chief engineer Delmar "Barney" Roos, who wanted
> _
> "an engine that could develop 15 horsepower at 4,400 r.p.m. and run for 150 hours without failure. What he started with was an engine that developed 48 horsepower at 3,400 r.p.m., and could run continuously for only two to four hours. . . It took Barney Roos two years to perfect his engine, by a whole complex of revisions that included closer tolerances, tougher alloys, aluminum pistons, and a flywheel reduced in weight from fifty-seven to thirty-one pounds".[1]_​







> The cost per vehicle trended upwards as the war continued from the price under the first contract from Willy's at US$648.74 (Ford's was $782.59 per unit)



I'd love to have a 1942 Willy's MB for % 650 dollars .....

Kaiser continued building Jeep CJ's after the war until 1953 .... 



> In 1953 Kaiser Motors purchased Willys-Overland and changed the name to Willys Motor Company. The same year, production of the Kaiser car was moved from Willow Run, Michigan to the Willys plant at Toledo, Ohio. Although Jeep production was steady, sales of the Willys and Kaiser cars continued to fall. In 1954, the CJ5 debuted at the start of its three-decade run.
> 
> After the last Willys passenger car was built in 1955, Willys shipped the tooling for the Aero to Brazil, where it was built from 1960 to 1962, almost unchanged. A 1953 Aero Lark was located in the estate of the late Howard Hughes, after he died en route to the US from Mexico aboard a small private airplane. Brooks Stevens restyled it for 1963, and the Aero continued to be built by Ford after they purchased Willys-Overland do Brasil until the 1970s. The American company changed its name again in 1963 to Kaiser-Jeep Corporation, at which time the Willys name disappeared.
> 
> *Legacy*
> 
> Kaiser-Jeep was sold to American Motors Corporation (AMC) in 1970 when Kaiser Industries decided to leave the automobile business. After the sale, AMC used engines it had developed for its other cars in Jeep models to improve performance and standardize production and servicing.
> 
> Renault purchased a major stake in AMC in 1979 and took over operation of the company, producing the CJ series until 1986. Chrysler purchased AMC in 1987 after the CJ had already been replaced with the Jeep Wrangler (also known as the YJ and later TJ), which had little in common with the CJ series other than outward appearance. DaimlerChrysler, now Fiat, still produces Jeep vehicles at a brand new Toledo Complex.
> 
> DaimlerChrysler would introduce the Overland name for a trim package on the 2003–present Jeep Grand Cherokee. The badging is a recreation of the Overland nameplate from the early twentieth century.



further background on Kaiser - Frazer .....



> Originally formed as the *Kaiser-Frazer Corporation* in 1945, the firm was reorganized in 1953 under the name Kaiser Motors Corporation after withdrawal of Joseph W. Frazer from the venture. The Kaiser-Frazer stock was redeemed and Kaiser Motors stock was issued at that time. Kaiser Motors manufactured automobiles in a number of locations around the world with the primary facility and corporate headquarters at Willow Run, Michigan.
> 
> The company, founded by Henry J. Kaiser, a United States industrialist, and Joseph W. Frazer, president of the Graham-Paige Corporation, started making automobiles with the brand names Kaiser and Frazer almost immediately after World War II. Kaiser-Frazer also built a small car called the Henry J, named for Henry Kaiser. A slightly re-designed version of the Henry J was sold by selected Sears Auto Centers during 1952 and 1953 under the brand name Allstate. This car was tagged as a product of Sears-Roebuck. While listed for informational purposes in the Sears "wish books", the car could not be purchased by mail order.





Kaiser is also well know for building Liberty Ships and forming an HMO as a wage incentive, when War Dept. regulations would not allow him to pay employees a higher wage ....


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## Friends4now

do you still own a jeep today? i just recently purchased a 2011 grand cherokee and i am considering the sky cost of i.e. tune up with those 16 plugs as oppose to the 8 plugs and my husband thinks we might of bit of more than we wanted. not sure though. can you advise. thank you.


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## itsbob

Friends4now said:


> do you still own a jeep today? i just recently purchased a 2011 grand cherokee and i am considering the sky cost of i.e. tune up with those 16 plugs as oppose to the 8 plugs and my husband thinks we might of bit of more than we wanted. not sure though. can you advise. thank you.



New cars shouldn't need tune ups.. 

If they need one before say 100k miles, you may have chose the wrong kind of car.


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## GURPS

Friends4now said:


> ... tune up with those 16 plugs




16 ?

what is this a V 16 Motor or a V8 with 2 plugs per cylinder


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## glhs837

itsbob said:


> New cars shouldn't need tune ups..
> 
> If they need one before say 100k miles, you may have chose the wrong kind of car.





GURPS said:


> 16 ?
> 
> what is this a V 16 Motor or a V8 with 2 plugs per cylinder






You still need plugs Bob. And the platinums in mine were pretty much toast at 70K. And Gurps, the modern Hemis do indeed have 2 plugs per. And one coil pak per cylinder.


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## GURPS

glhs837 said:


> You still need plugs Bob. And the platinums in mine were pretty much toast at 70K. And Gurps, the modern Hemis do indeed have 2 plugs per. And one coil pak per cylinder.



wow ...... ok 

Old Ideas are NEW Again .....

OHC, Turbo / Superchargers ... FI


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## glhs837

GURPS said:


> wow ...... ok
> 
> Old Ideas are NEW Again .....
> 
> OHC, Turbo / Superchargers ... FI





A lot of these ideas are indeed old, and went out of favor becuase we simply didnt have the tech/materials to pull them off in a product that was owned and operated by A-B types.  Back then they required care and feeding the average owner simply wouldn't bother with, then you get early failures and warranty claims and a bad reputation.


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## itsbob

glhs837 said:


> You still need plugs Bob. And the platinums in mine were pretty much toast at 70K. And Gurps, the modern Hemis do indeed have 2 plugs per. And one coil pak per cylinder.



Sure you do, but not every 12k miles, and as far as OLD tune ups went, plugs were the cheapest part of the entire deal.

Now plugs, as far as tune ups go, are about the entire deal.

Everything is Electronic, and ECU.. if you REALLY need a tune up, it's done by replacing a circuit card now.. No more timing adjustments, valve adjustments, carb adjustments... etc.. etc.. 

Replace belts and plugs about what, every 50k miles??

I think my Land Rover is the exception as it seems to eat spark plug wires.. why I have no idea, but the Service Engine light comes on, the code says replace ignition module or coil.. replace wires, light goes out, truck runs great, AND you have to replace the wires with the right guage and brand of wire or the light returns within 10k miles..


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## warneckutz

Just received a quote for a 4.5" BDS Suspension, 33" Tires and new rims and shocks... $6,300


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## glhs837

No, not every 12K, my point was that you do still have scheduled maint. Not as much, and certainly not as complex, but still stuff to do. About your plug wires, sounds similar to a thing we in the Neon community had to deal with. We called it carbon tracking. What would happen was that the plugs would lay down tracks that broke down a pathway between the ceramic of the plug and the rubber of the wire boot. 

Replacing the wires would solve it temporarily, but not long as the tracings on the plug would provide a path of least resistance leading the wires to go bad. 

I replaced my wires, fixed, then it came back, replaced the plugs, fixed, came back, replaced both at the same time, it never came back.


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## GURPS

glhs837 said:


> Back then they required care and feeding the average owner simply wouldn't bother with, then you get early failures and warranty claims and a bad reputation.




I was thinking more like the early 1900's ..... you had to have a technical skill or wallet to maintain one

like a DOS Computer, not just ANY moron could run one for very long 


now we have 100,000 mile tune ups and 25,000 mile oil changes
nothing under a car is maintained people point cars down the road .... 

an Air Cooled VW Beetle took 2.5 qts of oil and you changed it every 3,000 miles there was a screen you cleaned in gas or I used Carb Cleaner, you filed and re-gaped the points every 6000 miles changed them every 12,000 along with the spark plugs ... also the condenser, cap and rotor ... 

I could set the point gap by eye .... 

a points set was a couple of bucks and you kept spares in the glove box, or a tool kit in the trunk ... 

rotate the tires, adjust the brakes ....
 .... grease the tie rods and ball joints ... 
if you were gentle the clutch lasted as long as the motor ... 

you could hone the cylinders and lap the vales and tighten up the motor for  another 50,000 miles .... but you were pretty much done @ 100,000 it was time for a hot tank and new bearings .... a rebuild kit cost $ 300 bucks from JC Whitney ...

Pistons, Cylinders, Cam Shaft, wrist pins, bearings, gaskets, valves and guides ...

 ... you had new vales put in your heads if they were not trashed ... otherwise you were looking rebuild able heads 


you were one with the car, and you could tell by the way it ran, it was time for an oil change or to regap the plugs .... if you bought 90 Octane the engine sang the same song in a slightly different tune ...


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## GURPS

come on Gilligan, I know you have some cool car story


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## glhs837

Well, Gurps, it's not completely a dying art. Just a few weeks back boy and I were greasing up the Chargers tie rods and ball joints. As they went bad, I replaced the "serviced for life" parts with Moog units with grease fittings.

Told him that who knew,, someday he might have a machine that required such primitive methods And now the Samurais are coming, with all sorts of throwback tech  Even has a carb Rear drum brakes, crank windows. 

First operation will be swapping the mighty 1.3 liter 60hp powerplant Then a full checkup including diff and transfer cases, brakes and steering.


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## GURPS

glhs837 said:


> Told him that who knew,, someday he might have a machine that required such primitive methods And now the Samurais are coming, with all sorts of throwback tech  Even has a carb Rear drum brakes, crank windows.
> 
> First operation will be swapping the mighty 1.3 liter 60hp powerplant Then a full checkup including diff and transfer cases, brakes and steering.




60 HP is all you need for a Sammy 



some yrs ago;

a good friend of mine, Duane, Foxhound and I drove out to Rockville and picked up some 35's from this gal, who was upgrading her Sammy to D60's and 38's



yes the Sammy was setup as a Rock Crawler


----------



## GURPS

what are you going to power the Sammy with ?


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## glhs837

Gas, spark and air..........



Actually, the stock 1.3 liter carbed motor. Getting two of the trucks and a spare motor for free. The one that's road legal has a bad knock. Getting a 1.3 1991 fuel injected engine as part of the deal, but I think I will swap over the carbed 1.3 out of the non-titled one to get the good one going, then dropping the FI motor back in the one thats going to be offroad. 

Might step up to a 1.6 liter out of the Tracker/Sidekick twins, as they drop right in, but that's down the road. this whole project is unfunded, so maximum results for minimum dollars is the buzzword for now


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## GURPS

glhs837 said:


> Gas, spark and air..........
> 
> 
> 
> this whole project is unfunded, so maximum results for minimum dollars is the buzzword for now



aren't they all ..... a piece here, a piece there .... sounds like Doritos, you cannot have just one ...

 ...  like Gilligan and Broncos, he must have a doz ... St Georges its going to flip over and sink from all that Detroit Heavy Metal


----------

