# Route 5 South of 4



## bobbyr1229

Any Details on the head-on that just happened there?


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## Bay_Kat

bobbyr1229 said:


> Any Details on the head-on that just happened there?



Baynet has an alert up

Head-on Collision Closes Route 5 - Southern Maryland News, Charles County, Calvert County and St. Mary's County News


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## Danzig

bobbyr1229 said:


> Any Details on the head-on that just happened there?


 
young
bad
not good
closed for a little while longer


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## kwillia

7:30 p.m. and still blocked/detoured... this had to have been a baaad one.


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## belvak

kwillia said:


> 7:30 p.m. and still blocked/detoured... this had to have been a baaad one.



It definitely sounds that way. My thoughts and prayers to all.


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## bobbyr1229

agreed I saw the alert on baynet that why I asked here


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## seansgirl

Finally cleared around 8 oclock, one known fatality.a 16 year old girl.


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## shagger

Up until about 2 weeks ago, this was my route home from work - coulda been me!  Thank the powers that be.  Thoughts to those involved.


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## Katelin

seansgirl said:


> Finally cleared around 8 oclock, one known fatality.a 16 year old girl.



Aw....crap.....only 16....will remember and her family in my prayers... :-(


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## JLS

Prayers to the families...


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## deino2002

Got word of this today. Another young life gone way too soon. My thoughts & prayers are with her family & friends


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## frequentflier

Was the 16 yo driving one of the cars? It is sad that a young person that age lost her life.

Last Fri, I went to the DMV to renew my drivers license. The place was packed; mostly with young drivers getting their license for the 1st time. One young man next to me was boasting that he has been driving since he was 12 and his Dad nodded and said it was a good thing he hasn't been caught. The young man went on to tell another young man that he hates going the speed limit and goes fast all the time. The father told him to make sure he doesn't get caught...
The maturity level of most of the kids I saw in there was questionable. Most of the kids I observed were not who I would like to encounter on the roads.
Times have changed from when I was 16...I was living alone in my 1st apartment. I have to say, I am glad I am not a 16 year old in 2010 and I am also grateful that I do not have kids.


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## kwillia

frequentflier said:


> The young man went on to tell another young man that he hates going the speed limit and goes fast all the time. The father told him to make sure he doesn't get caught...


That seems to be the exact same philosophy of many adult drivers as well.


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## GWguy

frequentflier said:


> Was the 16 yo driving one of the cars? It is sad that a young person that age lost her life.
> 
> Last Fri, I went to the DMV to renew my drivers license. The place was packed; mostly with young drivers getting their license for the 1st time. One young man next to me was boasting that he has been driving since he was 12 and his *Dad nodded and said it was a good thing he hasn't been caught.* The young man went on to tell another young man that he hates going the speed limit and goes fast all the time. *The father told him to make sure he doesn't get caught...*
> The maturity level of most of the kids I saw in there was questionable. Most of the kids I observed were not who I would like to encounter on the roads.
> Times have changed from when I was 16...I was living alone in my 1st apartment. I have to say, I am glad I am not a 16 year old in 2010 and I am also grateful that I do not have kids.



With role models like that, it's no wonder there is no respect for the road, rules or obligations.  I wouldn't have dreamed telling my dad something like that, especially in a place where state troopers could hear me.  There's no fear of consequence until it's too late.


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## frequentflier

GWguy said:


> With role models like that, it's no wonder there is no respect for the road, rules or obligations.  I wouldn't have dreamed telling my dad something like that, especially in a place where state troopers could hear me.  There's no fear of consequence until it's too late.



 I'm not a state trooper (and don't recall seeing any there unless they are undercover)


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## GWguy

frequentflier said:


> I'm not a state trooper (and don't recall seeing any there unless they are undercover)



There are almost always state troopers at the MVAs.  Everytime I've been in there there has been.


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## mAlice

frequentflier said:


> Was the 16 yo driving one of the cars? It is sad that a young person that age lost her life.




I'm not sure, but the story I got was that the car she was in/driving was at the light at the 5/4 intersection NB, and was rear ended and pushed into traffic.


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## aps45819

From the BayNet link;



> OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE
> On July 12, 2010 at approximately 4:00 p.m., a 2003 Honda Civic driven by Shelby Wood, 16 of Leonardtown, was traveling southbound on Point Lookout Road between St. Andrew's Church Road and Fairgrounds Road in Leonardtown.
> 
> Wood's vehicle was struck from the rear by a 1996 Lincoln Town Car driven by Justin Macrae, 28 of Leonardtown.  The collision sent Wood's vehicle into the northbound travel lane of Point Lookout Road where it collided with a 2003 Honda Pilot driven by David Butler, 45 of Mechanicsville. Wood’s vehicle then traveled sideways back into the southbound lane of Point Lookout Road where it collided with a northbound 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan, driven by Richard Schmidt, 49 of Hollywood.
> Wood was transported by ambulance to St. Mary's Hospital where she succumbed to her injuries.  Schmidt was transported by ambulance to St. Mary's Hospital.  Macrae and Butler were not transported to the hospital.


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## cattitude

That poor girl.


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## deino2002

cattitude said:


> That poor girl.


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## jenileigh

My thoughts and prayers go out to her family. My heart breaks..

I was in an accident just a month ago on St. Andrews. Slightly similar - my car was stopped, was rear ended at a very high rate of speed, clipped the car in front of me, my car flipped multiple times & hit by a car going the opposite way. But I was in SUV. This hits home.


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## CalvertNewbie

GWguy said:


> With role models like that, it's no wonder there is no respect for the road, rules or obligations.  I wouldn't have dreamed telling my dad something like that, especially in a place where state troopers could hear me.  There's no fear of consequence until it's too late.



I agree.  That's so ridiculous!  If I had told my parents anything like that, I wouldn't have access to a car for a VERY long time.  Sounds like a bunch of parents trying to be friends to their kids instead of parents.   



aps45819 said:


> From the BayNet link;



So sad, this poor girl barely even started her life.  This accident wasn't even her fault yet she was the one who's life was lost.  Once again, the at-fault driver walked away without a scratch.  What a tragedy!


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## CableChick

If it's the same person, MD Judiciary site has a few things on him.  Mainly speeding.  Most recently ( just on 6.10.10 )  in Calvert for 77 in a 55.


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## itsbob

I think my 16 year old daughter will be driving my Land Rover.. 

NO little car for her.

DEVASTING for her and her family.. and not a phone call, or knock at the door I EVER want to receive.  I just can't imagine the pain.


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## Woodyspda

Was following a car on that same stretch last friday...

Passenger was laying down in front seat with legs hanging out the passenger window... I assume head was in the lap of driver.... Driver had left foot out driver window blocking their view of the side mirror. UN!@#$ing real.



What was Justin McRae doing that he wasn't able to stop in time? 

Seems like I hear about a fatal or near fatal rear end accident about every two weeks here. 

Never seen anything like it here in the states....


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## poster

itsbob said:


> I think my 16 year old daughter will be driving my Land Rover..
> 
> NO little car for her.
> 
> DEVASTING for her and her family.. and not a phone call, or knock at the door I EVER want to receive.  I just can't imagine the pain.



This is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE.....I pray for her family and those involved who will have to remember this forever.

To those of you who have teenage drivers, what are the ages kids can drive alone these days?  16 is so young, I can't even image my now 10yr old driving in 6 yrs.


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## sb624

poster said:


> This is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE.....I pray for her family and those involved who will have to remember this forever.
> 
> To those of you who have teenage drivers, what are the ages kids can drive alone these days?  16 is so young, I can't even image my now 10yr old driving in 6 yrs.



regardless of the age that someone can drive alone at, the 16 year old was not at fault- the 28 year old caused the accident.


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## kwillia

poster said:


> To those of you who have teenage drivers, what are the ages kids can drive alone these days?  16 is so young, I can't even image my now 10yr old driving in 6 yrs.



As a parent, you have complete control as to what age your child can begin driving.


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## CalvertNewbie

kwillia said:


> As a parent, you have complete control as to what age your child can begin driving.



Yes, time to break out the bubble.  I'm so thankful I don't have to worry about my son driving for a really long time.  I don't know how my parents ever slept when my brother & I started driving alone?


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## huntr1

kwillia said:


> As a parent, you have complete control as to what age your child can begin driving.





CalvertNewbie said:


> Yes, time to break out the bubble.  I'm so thankful I don't have to worry about my son driving for a really long time.  I don't know how my parents ever slept when my brother & I started driving alone?


I've got 4 years till my oldest turns 16.  His first car will either be a 2005 Ford Focus (if it's still around) or a 2006 Honda Pilot and he won't do a lot of driving alone until he has proven to ME that he can be trusted to do so.


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## poster

sb624 said:


> regardless of the age that someone can drive alone at, the 16 year old was not at fault- the 28 year old caused the accident.



That wasn't my question nor my point, I didn't say she was at fault.
I was just curious as to how young kids can drive these days.
The rules have changed since I got my license.

I know (as parent) I set the rules, I don't plan on allowing daughter to drive till she's 30   but I know that's unrealistic.


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## Roxie04

does not matter sometimes how good of a driver your child is.  you can't control how other people drive.


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## sb624

Roxie04 said:


> does not matter sometimes how good of a driver your child is.  you can't control how other people drive.



thank you- my point exactly.. july 9 of last year was another perfect example, shana ridgell was rear-ended and killed due to some idiot not paying attention.


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## Erin

Roxie04 said:


> does not matter sometimes how good of a driver your child is.  you can't control how other people drive.




Would have turned 17 within a month..........My heart breaks for her parents.  Graduated high school with them.  Good people.


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## itsbob

huntr1 said:


> I've got 4 years till my oldest turns 16.  His first car will either be a 2005 Ford Focus (if it's still around) or a 2006 Honda Pilot and he won't do a lot of driving alone until he has proven to ME that he can be trusted to do so.



Keep your child out of the Ford Focus if you can. 

That's all I'm going to say about that.


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## winniesmom

CableChick said:


> If it's the same person, MD Judiciary site has a few things on him.  Mainly speeding.  Most recently ( just on 6.10.10 )  in Calvert for 77 in a 55.



What's the link to that site for Md Judiciary?


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## aps45819

Maryland Judiciary Case Search

Multiple speeding  and driving while suspended cases for Justin A Macrae.


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## jenileigh

Absolutely the mirror image I faced. My POS totals my car but I was lucky and survived. Causes a four car accident. POS had no valid license, multiple speeding infractions. Was NOT arrested at the scene. And was picked up exactly 10 days later, speeding with no license again. And I can bet my POS is still driving.... And dollars to donuts, this guy from this accident will be back on the road...


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## godsbutterfly

How tragic. Thoughts and prayers to her family and friends.


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## bresamil

Roxie04 said:


> does not matter sometimes how good of a driver your child is. you can't control how other people drive.


I keep drilling this into my kid - he's a great driver but he's not the only one out there.

My thoughts and prayers are with Shelby's family.


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## JLS

I can tell you from experience..  those knock on the doors and them driving me to my mothers house - I was terrified and its the most awful thing in the world..  AWFUL.   Prayers to this girls friends & family..   so sad...



itsbob said:


> I think my 16 year old daughter will be driving my
> 
> Land Rover..
> 
> NO little car for her.
> 
> DEVASTING for her and her family.. and not a phone call, or knock at the door I EVER want to receive.  I just can't imagine the pain.


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## JLS

RIP Babygirl  




sb624 said:


> thank you- my point exactly.. july 9 of last year was another perfect example, shana ridgell was rear-ended and killed due to some idiot not paying attention.


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## ICit

that is the rt. I take home two days a week when Im in our other office... and that would have been right around the time I pass thru that area....

Life is so unpredictable... here one minute gone the next.   And may not have even been your fault you are gone.


Prayers to family and friend....     so sad


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## winniesmom

Thanks Aps


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## godsbutterfly

Thoughts & prayers for the 2 drivers who hit her after she was hit from behind. Those people were pulled into the situation. I know I would be horrified and heart-broken if it had been me driving one of those vehicles.


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## ICit

godsbutterfly said:


> Thoughts & prayers for the 2 drivers who hit her after she was hit from behind. Those people were pulled into the situation. I know I would be horrified and heart-broken if it had been me driving one of those vehicles.




  thats the main thing I can think of..... I would be a mess!!!


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## Pooh31

Prayers to the family of the girl.  So young to lose her life.


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## JoeRider

aps45819 said:


> Maryland Judiciary Case Search
> 
> Multiple speeding  and driving while suspended cases for Justin A Macrae.




It is interesting that he has a driving with suspended case since his traffics are all less than 10 over expect for the Rt 4 77 in a 55.  Looks like he missed his court date court date for 10 over.  There might be a repeat of the same charges, so it looks worst than it really is.   There was no DWI's.  The Second degree assault could indicate a problem and was recorded as stet.

My guess is he was a distracted driver which is reckless but does not meet the condemnation that a DWI person would meet.  I am not passing judgment until the final report.  Right now, it is just a sad accident.  

I pray for everyone involved, especially the family of the girl.


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## mAlice

JoeRider said:


> I am not passing judgment until the final report.  Right now, it is just a sad accident.



Short of mechanical failure or a health condition, I can't imagine anything else that would have prevented him from stopping.


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## aps45819

mAlice said:


> Short of mechanical failure or a health condition, I can't imagine anything else that would have prevented him from stopping.



tailgating, talking or texting :shrug:


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## JoeRider

mAlice said:


> Short of mechanical failure or a health condition, I can't imagine anything else that would have prevented him from stopping.



We have all made mistakes driving and been lucky.  You never drove though a yellow light that turn red at the last minute. You never changed lanes and did not see someone in your blind spot.   I am amazed that I am not dead yet from all the things I see on the Beltway when I drive to work.  I have no clue who this guy is but his driving record does not really show someone who has a reckless pass. He could be the nicest guy in the world and it just in an accident.  I know we all want him to be a horrible person that was responsible, but we can't with what information we have.  It rips at us all because she was so young.  Having lost a close young relative to someones error did not have me blaming that person that made the error.  It is an all around sad thing that happened, but that is life at times.  It makes you hold on to the ones you love even more.

Wish  I had the power to take all the hurt away.  I pray for all involved even the driver of the car that hit her's first.


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## hammishsqueak

godsbutterfly said:


> I know I would be horrified and heart-broken if it had been me driving one of those vehicles.



They are and it's a very sad situation. 

The driver of the white van, Richard, is my coworker's husband. When I spoke with her the other night to check up on her they were both shaken and very upset about the teenager having lost her life. I know it will take them awhile to put this accident out of their minds. 

I am too young to have kids of driving age, but I can't imagine the pain her family must be going through. Prayers to everyone involved.....


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## sexy_mama

JoeRider said:


> We have all made mistakes driving and been lucky.  You never drove though a yellow light that turn red at the last minute. You never changed lanes and did not see someone in your blind spot.   I am amazed that I am not dead yet from all the things I see on the Beltway when I drive to work.  I have no clue who this guy is but his driving record does not really show someone who has a reckless pass. He could be the nicest guy in the world and it just in an accident.  I know we all want him to be a horrible person that was responsible, but we can't with what information we have.  It rips at us all because she was so young.  Having lost a close young relative to someones error did not have me blaming that person that made the error.  It is an all around sad thing that happened, but that is life at times.  It makes you hold on to the ones you love even more.
> 
> Wish  I had the power to take all the hurt away.  I pray for all involved even the driver of the car that hit her's first.



I feel really bad for all parties involved especially the young girls family.  I can't imagine the hurt involved.

I have to agree with the above poster though, without any real information about this guy, I can't make any assumptions.  They are called accidents for a reason, we all make mistakes while driving and calling the driver names is really just casting stones.


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## aps45819

sexy_mama said:


> They are called accidents for a reason, we all make mistakes while driving and calling the driver names is really just casting stones.



Four speeding and two driving while supended tickets within one year says a lot.


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## sexy_mama

aps45819 said:


> Four speeding and two driving while supended tickets within one year says a lot.



Yes, it does.  It makes me question things but that doesn't mean that this accident was anything other than an accident unless it is proven otherwise by the authorities.


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## sb624

sexy_mama said:


> Yes, it does.  It makes me question things but that doesn't mean that this accident was anything other than an accident unless it is proven otherwise by the authorities.



rear-ending someone, pushing them into the path of another vehicle cannot be called an accident.. an accident is spilling milk, dropping a plate, knocking something over.. not KILLING someone.


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## Merlin99

sb624 said:


> rear-ending someone, pushing them into the path of another vehicle cannot be called an accident.. an accident is spilling milk, dropping a plate, knocking something over.. not KILLING someone.


Sorry to inform you, sometimes accidents do end up with someone dead.


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## sb624

Merlin99 said:


> Sorry to inform you, sometimes accidents do end up with someone dead.



thats fine- but this couldve been avoided. thats what im trying to point out.


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## JoeRider

sb624 said:


> thats fine- but this couldve been avoided. thats what im trying to point out.



It could have?  How? Keeping young drivers off the road?

Jury is still out here.  May be the case that he was reckless, but so far have not seen anything that is reckless intent.  We do not know a thing about this accident.  She could have pulled out in front of him or changed lanes. Might not be the case, but only time will tell.  Again, prays to the family, friends and all drivers.


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## JoeRider

Leonardtown Teen Shelby Wood Killed in Car Accident

Leonardtown Teen Shelby Wood Killed in Car Accident

Updated: Tuesday, 13 Jul 2010, 3:41 PM EDT
Published : Tuesday, 13 Jul 2010, 9:36 AM EDT

LEONARDTOWN, Md. - A 16-year-old Leonardtown, Maryland girl was killed in a car accident Tuesday afternoon.

Shelby Wood was driving her vehicle southbound on Point Lookout Road near St. Andrew's Church Road around 4:00 p.m. when it struck in the rear by another vehicle.

The collision sent Wood's vehicle into the northbound lane of traffic where it was struck a second time.

Wood was transported by ambulance to St. Mary's Hospital where she later died from her injuries.
*
Speed and alcohol are not believed to be contributing factors at this time.*


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## kwillia

JoeRider said:


> Leonardtown Teen Shelby Wood Killed in Car Accident
> 
> Leonardtown Teen Shelby Wood Killed in Car Accident
> 
> Updated: Tuesday, 13 Jul 2010, 3:41 PM EDT
> Published : Tuesday, 13 Jul 2010, 9:36 AM EDT
> 
> LEONARDTOWN, Md. - A 16-year-old Leonardtown, Maryland girl was killed in a car accident Tuesday afternoon.
> 
> Shelby Wood was driving her vehicle southbound on Point Lookout Road near St. Andrew's Church Road around 4:00 p.m. when it struck in the rear by another vehicle.
> 
> The collision sent Wood's vehicle into the northbound lane of traffic where it was struck a second time.
> 
> Wood was transported by ambulance to St. Mary's Hospital where she later died from her injuries.
> *
> Speed and alcohol are not believed to be contributing factors at this time.*


You offer nothing new to the conversation.


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## JoeRider

Does anyone know if she was stopped to make a turn?  Suddenly stopped because of something in the road.  Was she moving when he hit her?   Did she pullout in front of him?  

One thing for sure is to learn defensive driving .... wheels forward instead of turned if you are going to make a turn.  There was a fatal accident near the Benedict Bridge because the driver was rearended into the oncoming lane.  This could be the same thing.


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## rwethereyet

JoeRider said:


> Does anyone know if she was stopped to make a turn?  Suddenly stopped because of something in the road.  Was she moving when he hit her?   Did she pullout in front of him?
> 
> One thing for sure is to learn defensive driving .... wheels forward instead of turned if you are going to make a turn.  There was a fatal accident near the Benedict Bridge because the driver was rearended into the oncoming lane.  This could be the same thing.



If she was going southbound, there is no where between St. Andrews and Fairgrounds that she would be stopped with her wheels turned to the left, to make a left hand turn.  Sounds like you are trying to put the  blame on the girl some how, but this theory isn't working.


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## aps45819

rwethereyet said:


> If she was going southbound, there is no where between St. Andrews and Fairgrounds that she would be stopped with her wheels turned to the left, to make a left hand turn.  Sounds like you are trying to put the  blame on the girl some how, but this theory isn't working.



There are a couple of driveways on the northbound side


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## ICit

rwethereyet said:


> If she was going southbound, there is no where between St. Andrews and Fairgrounds that she would be stopped with her wheels turned to the left, to make a left hand turn.  Sounds like you are trying to put the  blame on the girl some how, but this theory isn't working.



as I have gone thru there at that time of day... the only thing I can really think is the light right before you get to the middle school could have been red.. and traffic may have backed up to about that small turn... if you are coming south from St. Andrews up that hill you will come up on stopped traffic FAST!!!  Happens in the AM and PM all the time.... so if she slammed on brakes out of surprise of traffic and maybe for that split second the driver behind her had taken his eyes off of the road and you look back up and you think OH CHIT!!! (how many times has this happened to you... Im sure lots)

just my theory... thats it... no blame just a thought.. cuz it has almost happened to me a month ago in the same spot


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## JoeRider

rwethereyet said:


> If she was going southbound, there is no where between St. Andrews and Fairgrounds that she would be stopped with her wheels turned to the left, to make a left hand turn.  Sounds like you are trying to put the  blame on the girl some how, but this theory isn't working.



No, not at all, trying to understand what happened without jumping to conclusions as some have done here.   I did want to remind people about wheel positions when making a left hand turn, because someone can rear end you and push you into oncoming traffic.  Something they don't teach in drivers ed.  

Also, I read that if you are about to hit a deer, you should let up on the brakes just before impact, because it will cause the front end of your car to go higher thus the deer goes under your car instead of in your windshield.  Not sure if it works, but read it somewhere.


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## mAlice

JoeRider said:


> No, not at all, trying to understand what happened without jumping to conclusions as some have done here.   I did want to remind people about wheel positions when making a left hand turn, because someone can rear end you and push you into oncoming traffic.  Something they don't teach in drivers ed.
> 
> Also, I read that if you are about to hit a deer, you should let up on the brakes just before impact, because it will cause the front end of your car to go higher thus the deer goes under your car instead of in your windshield.  Not sure if it works, but read it somewhere.



Ya' know, we're talking about a 16 year old girl here.  With the degree of intelligence we have with our driving schools here, it was probably a challenge for her to get out of her drive way, much less know how her tires should have been positioned.


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## JoeRider

mAlice said:


> Ya' know, we're talking about a 16 year old girl here.  With the degree of intelligence we have with our driving schools here, it was probably a challenge for her to get out of her drive way, much less know how her tires should have been positioned.



Off point. Erica Weems was in her 30's I think and the same thing happened to her on 231 in Calvert County.  Just something for you all to think about the next time you make that left turn.

Patuxent remembers Weems


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## gary_webb

JoeRider said:


> Does anyone know if she was stopped to make a turn?  Suddenly stopped because of something in the road.  Was she moving when he hit her?   Did she pullout in front of him?
> 
> One thing for sure is to learn defensive driving .... wheels forward instead of turned if you are going to make a turn.  There was a fatal accident near the Benedict Bridge because the driver was rearended into the oncoming lane.  This could be the same thing.



My prayers to the family. It's so sad to lose such a young life.

This is by far the most important post in this thread. When stopped to make a left turn NEVER, EVER turn your wheels to the left before oncoming traffic is clear. This is indeed exactly what happened to the driver in Calvert. If you are rear ended it will push you straight into on coming traffic.

This tip could save your life one day!


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## sb624

rwethereyet said:


> If she was going southbound, there is no where between St. Andrews and Fairgrounds that she would be stopped with her wheels turned to the left, to make a left hand turn.  Sounds like you are trying to put the  blame on the girl some how, but this theory isn't working.



thank you. may not have been speed or alcohol, but something made that man rear-end her. and regardless of her wheel direction she probably had no time to react before she was slammed into by the pilot (who was in the wrong place at the wrong time)

the driver who hit her has not been charged, and no, its not "clear" what happened.. but its easy to see the girl was not at fault.. so instead of people questioning her "wheel placement", or whether she was turning or not, admit she was hit.


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## vraiblonde

If that guy has priors, including driving on a suspended license, he should get the death penalty because nothing else seems to be getting through to him.  Now he's freakin' killed someone.

WTH is wrong with our judicial system???  If I were that girl's parent, I'd be extremely pissed that some judge let this punk off so he could continue his merry way and kill my daughter.


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## sb624

vraiblonde said:


> If that guy has priors, including driving on a suspended license, he should get the death penalty because nothing else seems to be getting through to him.  Now he's freakin' killed someone.
> 
> WTH is wrong with our judicial system???  If I were that girl's parent, I'd be extremely pissed that some judge let this punk off so he could continue his merry way and kill my daughter.



AMEN!


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## aps45819

sb624 said:


> the driver who hit her has not been charged, and no, its not "clear" what happened.. *but its easy to see the girl was not at fault*.. so instead of people questioning her "wheel placement", or whether she was turning or not, admit she was hit.



Don't think anybody is saying it was her fault


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## TGB

Thoughts and prayers to the family. This is very tragic.


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## kwillia

It wouldn't matter which way her wheels were facing if he attempted to correct at all and hit her on the right-rear side... that would have just spun her into the oncoming traffic.


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## Woodyspda

If the guy's license was suspended at the time of the accident he should automatically be charged with at least manslaughter. As far as I'm concerned "no license"=your fault no matter what excuse you have loser. For non fatal accidents it should be 50k to everyone's life you inconvenienced because you can't be a responsible driver.  

Let's not even get into the subject of convicted DUI offenders...


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## Sweet 16

sexy_mama said:


> Yes, it does.  It makes me question things but that doesn't mean that this accident was anything other than an accident unless it is proven otherwise by the authorities.



No, locking your keys in the car is a mistake.  It is neither an "accident" nor a "mistake" when someone willfully and blatantly disregards the law (multiple times) and chooses to drive anyway on a suspended license and kills someone!!!

God, give this family the strength to get through this.


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## JoeRider

kwillia said:


> It wouldn't matter which way her wheels were facing if he attempted to correct at all and hit her on the right-rear side... that would have just spun her into the oncoming traffic.



You are missing the point and you do not know that either.


 Really does not matter how.  It is a tragic accident and some here are jumping to conclusions before all the facts are out there.  You're probably right, a mean evil selfish person did this horrible thing and should pay for it, but a missed court date for speed less than 10 over caused a suspension, not reckless driving.  Variblonde, I do not think the judge was out of line and from the looks of the court records, all matters were addressed.  The only thing that bothers me is on one of the speeding tickets it does say there was an injury.  That does not mean much because I know of at least two cases where they had the wrong lic. number and the driver listed as black when they were white.  PA Martin from Calvert said that the system is not always accurate.  

Prays to the families.


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## JoeRider

Woodyspda said:


> If the guy's license was suspended at the time of the accident he should automatically be charged with at least manslaughter. As far as I'm concerned "no license"=your fault no matter what excuse you have loser. For non fatal accidents it should be 50k to everyone's life you inconvenienced because you can't be a responsible driver.
> 
> Let's not even get into the subject of convicted DUI offenders...



But we do not know if his lic. was suspended at the time of the accident.


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## JoeRider

Notices this on one of posts on the CJS:

PPTR	2009-12-15	121809;0900A;02;121509;E;SET WRONG CT ROOM IN ERROR 

Might be a screw up on the court side of things why the suspension occurred.


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## JoeRider

Go spend a day in the court room and watch what happens.  I watched some lady plea her case that she was going  25 miles per hour over the speed limit because her small child in the car had to go the bathroom.....duh...did not make the judge happy and mentioned that reckless endangerment of a child could have been considered.  

The court systems is pretty intiminating even for a simple speeding ticket.  I really do feel sorry for some of the people caught in the system.  It's not black and white.  Some of the judges handle things pretty good considering the dregs they are dealing with.


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## sexy_mama

JoeRider said:


> Go spend a day in the court room and watch what happens.  I watched some lady plea her case that she was going  25 miles per hour over the speed limit because her small child in the car had to go the bathroom.....duh...did not make the judge happy and mentioned that reckless endangerment of a child could have been considered.
> 
> The court systems is pretty intiminating even for a simple speeding ticket.  I really do feel sorry for some of the people caught in the system.  It's not black and white.  Some of the judges handle things pretty good considering the dregs they are dealing with.



I agree.  What's scary too is that people(who could possibly be on a jury) are willing to convict without knowing all the facts.


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## mAlice

sexy_mama said:


> I agree.  What's scary too is that people(who could possibly be on a jury) are willing to convict without knowing all the facts.



Are you suggesting that expressing an opinion, or difference of opinion, is the equivalent of conviction in a court of law?


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## foodforthought

Very tragic! Prayers go out to Shelby's family....Can't even imagine the pain they are feeling


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## vraiblonde

JoeRider said:


> Variblonde, I do not think the judge was out of line and from the looks of the court records, all matters were addressed.



Oh stop.  He has a history of speeding and reckless driving behavior.  He rear-ended this girl, so he was either following too close or just flat not paying attention.  AND he rear-ended her hard enough that it shoved her out into oncoming traffic.

No mercy for him, sorry.  His license should be permanently revoked and he should do some jail time, at minimum.


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## JoeRider

vraiblonde said:


> Oh stop.  He has a history of speeding and reckless driving behavior. ...AND he rear-ended her hard enough that it shoved her out into oncoming traffic.



History of speeding yes, history of reckless driving behavior, no (at least not until they finish the investigation).  Also, did the impact shove her in to oncoming traffic or did she not control the vehicle when hit?  

I hate to be on this side of the fence, but it is an accident right now until I hear more. Period. I will be the first in line to throwing stones if it is reckless.

I drive 3 hours a day in the car commuting.  Tonight I was going 50 on Rt. 4 near where the girl was killed by the Calvert county cop last year and I was past by 3 people going 70.  It was crazy.  What was even worst was there was a trooper there and people still did not slow down. Oh, there was a guy reading a book driving today too! Unbelievable! An Monday two pocket rockets were riding wheelie though rush hour traffic on the Beltway.


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## sb624

JoeRider said:


> History of speeding yes, history of reckless driving behavior, no (at least not until they finish the investigation). * Also, did the impact shove her in to oncoming traffic or did she not control the vehicle when hit?  *
> 
> I hate to be on this side of the fence, but it is an accident right now until I hear more. Period. I will be the first in line to throwing stones if it is reckless.
> 
> I drive 3 hours a day in the car commuting.  Tonight I was going 50 on Rt. 4 near where the girl was killed by the Calvert county cop last year and I was past by 3 people going 70.  It was crazy.  What was even worst was there was a trooper there and people still did not slow down. Oh, there was a guy reading a book driving today too! Unbelievable! An Monday two pocket rockets were riding wheelie though rush hour traffic on the Beltway.



Are you serious? she probably had NO time to react before that Honda Pilot hit her. I know that if I'm driving along, or slowing down, minding my own business, the last thing I'm planning on is getting rear-ended and slammed into another lane of traffic..


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## shagger

Failed brakes? :shrug:

This accident reminds me of the one last fall - anybody know the outcome of the investigation/charges on it?
http://forums.somd.com/scanner-activity/188566-accident-w-injuries-point-lookout-rd-aster-drive.html


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## JoeRider

sb624 said:


> Are you serious? she probably had NO time to react before that Honda Pilot hit her. I know that if I'm driving along, or slowing down, minding my own business, the last thing I'm planning on is getting rear-ended and slammed into another lane of traffic..




Actually had someone rear-ended my car when I was making a left turn.  They were rear-end by the idiot that push the car into my car.  First reaction is breaking hard.   I went straight instead of into on coming traffic.  Many close calls on the beltway with idiots that tailgate me. I usually tap the break lights when I am stopped on the beltway for a little more protection. Not sure if it works.


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## JoeRider

shagger said:


> Failed brakes? :shrug:
> 
> This accident reminds me of the one last fall - anybody know the outcome of the investigation/charges on it?
> http://forums.somd.com/scanner-activity/188566-accident-w-injuries-point-lookout-rd-aster-drive.html



Is this it?

Defendant Name:TIPPETT, JAMES SAMUEL

Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB
Sex:MHeight:601Weight:225
DOB:05/1970
Charge Information
Charge:	Article:TASec:21Sub-Sec:310Para:ACode:
Description:	FOLLOWING VEH. TOO CLOSELY
Location Stopped:	RT 5 / ASTER DR
Contributed to Accident?:	YES	Personal Injury?:	NO
*Fine:	150*


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## shagger

JoeRider said:


> Is this it?
> 
> Defendant Name:TIPPETT, JAMES SAMUEL
> 
> Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB
> Sex:MHeight:601Weight:225
> DOB:05/1970
> Charge Information
> Charge:	Article:TASec:21Sub-Sec:310Para:ACode:
> Description:	FOLLOWING VEH. TOO CLOSELY
> Location Stopped:	RT 5 / ASTER DR
> Contributed to Accident?:	YES	Personal Injury?:	NO
> *Fine:	150*



That sounds like the one.  Hmmm - $150 fine....


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## sexy_mama

shagger said:


> That sounds like the one.  Hmmm - $150 fine....



This is the one where the people following the girl whipped around her on the shoulder and he was a later vehicle that realized too late.  He hit her on the corner of her car as he went to go around her as well.  That's what contributed to her being pushed into oncoming traffic.

This is why passing on the shoulder regardless of whether the vehicle is turning left should be illegal.  I have people do this to me all.the.time while trying to turn into my driveway.  I always have my eye in the rear view mirror to be prepared for someone to rear end me, whether it be to start driving or go onto the shoulder.


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## thurley42

sexy_mama said:


> This is the one where the people following the girl whipped around her on the shoulder and he was a later vehicle that realized too late.  He hit her on the corner of her car as he went to go around her as well.  That's what contributed to her being pushed into oncoming traffic.
> 
> This is why passing on the shoulder regardless of whether the vehicle is turning left should be illegal.  I have people do this to me all.the.time while trying to turn into my driveway.  I always have my eye in the rear view mirror to be prepared for someone to rear end me, whether it be to start driving or go onto the shoulder.



 It doesn't matter if they are allowed to pass or not...if you are stopped in the middle of the road turning left and someone isn't paying attention they are going to hit you regardless.....


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## sexy_mama

thurley42 said:


> It doesn't matter if they are allowed to pass or not...if you are stopped in the middle of the road turning left and someone isn't paying attention they are going to hit you regardless.....



If 3 cars all of a sudden whip around the person turning without signaling that they are going to whip, you can be paying attention but may not have the reaction time for it.  If it were illegal(like most other states), then it would lessen how often it happens.

I see it everyday.  I use my turn signal even on the improved shoulders that are designed for using the shoulder.  I think most people have forgotten that their cars are equipped with a turn signal.


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## Jbeckman

JoeRider said:


> History of speeding yes, history of reckless driving behavior, no (at least not until they finish the investigation).  Also, did the impact shove her in to oncoming traffic or did she not control the vehicle when hit?
> 
> I hate to be on this side of the fence, but it is an *accident *right now until I hear more. Period. I will be the first in line to throwing stones if it is reckless.
> 
> I drive 3 hours a day in the car commuting.  Tonight I was going 50 on Rt. 4 near where the girl was killed by the Calvert county cop last year and I was past by 3 people going 70.  It was crazy.  What was even worst was there was a trooper there and people still did not slow down. Oh, there was a guy reading a book driving today too! Unbelievable! An Monday two pocket rockets were riding wheelie though rush hour traffic on the Beltway.



Not an accident...was preventable...is a CRASH!  Someone was at fault.  Her age may have limited her ability...i.e. skills in handling the vehicle...but the CRASH and outcome were the results of someone else's 1st contribution to set this into motion.


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## betty99

sb624 said:


> Are you serious? she probably had NO time to react before that Honda Pilot hit her. I know that if I'm driving along, or slowing down, minding my own business, *the last thing I'm planning on is getting rear-ended* and slammed into another lane of traffic..



I guess I'm different, because I am always anticipating being hit from any angle. People are nuts. Keeping an eye on those around me has saved me in the past. A little over a year ago, i was coming through PF in the a.m. and saw the three-car train of rear-ending coming at me. I was barely clipped because I got myself as far out of the way as possible. 

Back to the point of the thread, my heart goes out to the family. This was an awful tragedy.


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## Purplefox

Jbeckman said:


> *Not an accident...was preventable...is a CRASH*!  Someone was at fault.  Her age may have limited her ability...i.e. skills in handling the vehicle...but the CRASH and outcome were the results of someone else's 1st contribution to set this into motion.



No, it is an accident, otherwise it would be an "On-purpose".  A _crash_ resulted from the accident.  Or are you telling me this kid rear-ended her on purpose?  He meant to kill her, and to F up the other drivers involved either physically or emotionally?

Sad as it is, it was an accident.  I feel for the young girl's family, but I also feel for EVERYONE involved in this.  It is truly a heart breaking situation.


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## aps45819

Purplefox said:


> No, it is an accident, otherwise it would be an "On-purpose".  A _crash_ resulted from the accident.  Or are you telling me this kid rear-ended her on purpose?  He meant to kill her, and to F up the other drivers involved either physically or emotionally?
> 
> Sad as it is, it was an accident.


Not an accident.
He was doing something other than driving and maintaining a 2 sec space between himself and the car in front of him.
Intentional or not, whatever he was doing caused the collision


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## Baja28

It actually is an accident....



> ac·ci·dent   /ˈæksɪdənt/  Show Spelled[ak-si-duhnt]  Show IPA
> –noun
> 1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
> 2. Law . such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
> 3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.


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## sexy_mama

Baja28 said:


> It actually is an accident....



Thank you.

It is someones fault but still an accident until proven otherwise by the authorities.


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## sb624

sexy_mama said:


> Thank you.
> 
> It is someones fault but still an accident until proven otherwise by the authorities.



what needs to be proven? why he was distracted?.. why he slammed into her? yes.that needs to be proven- who was at fault? him..obviously.


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## Baja28

sexy_mama said:


> Thank you.
> 
> It is *HIS* fault *ALONE* but still an accident.


:fixed:


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## sexy_mama

Baja28 said:


> :fixed:



I guess you were there and know for a fact that it was his fault "ALONE" that caused the accident.  I wasn't there so I'm going by with the assumption that there are many scenarios that could have taken place and it's up to the authorities to piece it all together.(maybe he was careless, maybe she did something, maybe they both weren't paying close enough attention to the road)  WE DON'T KNOW, hence why it has to be proven.


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## Baja28

sexy_mama said:


> I guess you were there and know for a fact that it was his fault "ALONE" that caused the accident.  I wasn't there so I'm going by with the assumption that there are many scenarios that could have taken place and it's up to the authorities to piece it all together.(maybe he was careless, maybe she did something, maybe they both weren't paying close enough attention to the road)  WE DON'T KNOW, hence why it has to be proven.



You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?  A rear end collision is always the rear enders fault.  

Please give me an example of what she could have done to make this her fault.


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## sb624

sexy_mama said:


> I guess you were there and know for a fact that it was his fault "ALONE" that caused the accident.  I wasn't there so I'm going by with the assumption that there are many scenarios that could have taken place and it's up to the authorities to piece it all together.(maybe he was careless, maybe she did something, maybe they both weren't paying close enough attention to the road)  WE DON'T KNOW, hence why it has to be proven.



i wasnt there, but theres no roads to turn off on in that area, so it isnt like she was stopped to turn, traffic was probably slowing down going up the hill, and he hit her. there are things that need to be pieced together, yes- but anyone and everyone can see who was at fault. i may be blunt for saying that, but shes dead. and i find it very hard to believe she did anything to cause that.


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## sb624

Baja28 said:


> You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?  A rear end collision is always the rear enders fault.
> 
> Please give me an example of what she could have done to make this her fault.



thank you- i didnt want to be the one to point that out- all these people feel the need to come up with how the girl couldve been at fault..


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## vraiblonde

JoeRider said:


> or did she not control the vehicle when hit?



The onus is on the other driver to pay attention and not smash into other vehicles, not on the girl to "properly" control her vehicle once the smashing has happened.


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## Merlin99

Baja28 said:


> You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you? A rear end collision is always the rear enders fault.
> 
> Please give me an example of what she could have done to make this her fault.


improper backing


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## sb624

Merlin99 said:


> improper backing



right, because she was just driving in reverse down the road? wtf..


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## Jbeckman

Baja28 said:


> It actually is an accident....
> It actually is an accident....
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ac·ci·dent   /ˈæksɪdənt/ Show Spelled[ak-si-duhnt] Show IPA
> –noun
> 1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
> 2. Law . such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
> 3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.


Definitions of crash (n) 
crash [ krash ]   
vehicle collision: a collision involving a moving vehicle or aircraft
loud noise: a loud noise such as that made by thunder or by something breaking violently into pieces
computer breakdown: a sudden complete failure of a computer system, device, or program, usually with an accompanying loss of data

accident - UNAVOIDABE INCIDENT - 
crash - AVOIDABLE - (maybe no INTENT) - in some way...distance between vehicles, looking further down the road (for all we know someone was in front of him) - looking past just following the car in front of you, always scanning for a way out of circumstances, driving without distractions, etc.


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## JoeRider

Merlin99 said:


> improper backing



LOL  There are several other examples where a rear-ending car is not at fault, but the majority of the time it is the rear-ending cars fault.


It time to end this thread. Two quick points:

Remember, do not turn wheels in to oncoming traffic when making a left turn until the last moment.  Someone might CRASH" in to you.

Pray or have helpful thoughts to all family and friends involved in this.


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## deino2002

JoeRider said:


> It time to end this thread.
> 
> Pray or have helpful thoughts to all family and friends involved in this.



 Thoughts & Prayers to Shelbys family & friends


----------

