# Time to put the DJmobile out to pasture



## vraiblonde

I'm pretty sure I want another Rav4, but am slightly open to other small SUVs.  Any recommendations?  I'll either go new or a couple years old if the deal is right.

And are there any car dealerships out there who aren't shady nozzles that are going to piss me off in the sales process?  That's always the worst part about buying a car:  dealing with the damn salestard.


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## RoseRed

vraiblonde said:


> I'm pretty sure I want another Rav4, but am slightly open to other small SUVs.  Any recommendations?  I'll either go new or a couple years old if the deal is right.
> 
> And are there any car dealerships out there who aren't shady nozzles that are going to piss me off in the sales process?  That's always the worst part about buying a car:  dealing with the damn salestard.


Go see Henry at CARMAX in Brandywine.


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## Gilligan

We've been treated very well by Prince Frederick Toyota..young salesman named Jarrett was a rare pleasure  to work with but I think that's not atypical of that outfit either.  Service department has been good too; we had one pesky and obscure problem crop up that was causing battery drain and they located it fairly quickly.

We ended up with a new Rav4 after finding that all the 2-3 year old low-mileage ones were not that much less than new. Also got 0% financing through them, so that helped.


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## vraiblonde

This is a dumb question, but:

What exactly is 0% financing?  Does that mean that if the car is, say, $24k, they break that down into however many payments and you don't pay interest on the loan?


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## Kyle

vraiblonde said:


> This is a dumb question, but:
> 
> What exactly is 0% financing?  Does that mean that if the car is, say, $24k, they break that down into however many payments and you don't pay interest on the loan?




 

I'd bet they'll slip some indecipherable fee in there somewhere.


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## Kyle

You ought to get one of these for off road adventure.


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## glhs837

So, the buying process needn't be painful. Develop the price you are willing to pay, depending on the vehicle. New ones in high demand you might have to pay MSRP. Anything other than high demand should go go for some amount over invoice. Say $500-$1000. Work from there. Email dealers, ones that wont discuss price via email, kiss them goodbye. You inital neogotiation should be done before you get there. Out the door price stettled. Last three cars I've bought new has been less than 30 minutes from walking in to driving away. 

1. Do your own financing. 
2. Know exactly what you want, including option packages, what you MUST have vs what you WANT to have. 
3. DO NOT TRADE IN. Sell privately, maybe sell it to CARMAX, but trade in is just another pathway to both spending more time and losing more money. 
4. Search inventory online, most makers have a tool that lets you configure with options and search. Virtually always easier than having a dealer do that for you. And reduces the chance that they might do to you what they did to us, where they brought a new Jeep from South Carolina all the way up here and it wasnt configured as we asked. When questioned, she first insisted it had that option, then told us it didnt matter. So we walked. 
5. Make sure the deal is set before you show up. You have a blank check go for more than what you negotiated price it. 
6. Do NOt let them upsell  you on fabric/paint treatments, VIN etching, wheel insurance, any of that crap. If they did it without asking you, they can eat it or inlcude it for free. 


All that being said, I would highly consider a certified pre-pwned vs brand new. The amount of off-lease small SUVs is off the charts. Take adavantage of that fact. Add a factory extended warranty if it makes you feel better, but getting a 2 year old upscale model with 30K and a lot more features for less money can be a great deal.


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## stgislander

Kyle said:


> You ought to get one of these for off road adventure.
> 
> View attachment 124185



If they find one without the bike lift attached, we can build it.


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## Gilligan

glhs837 said:


> So, the buying process needn't be painful. Develop the price you are willing to pay, depending on the vehicle. New ones in high demand you might have to pay MSRP. Anything other than high demand should go go for some amount over invoice. Say $500-$1000. Work from there. Email dealers, ones that wont discuss price via email, kiss them goodbye. You inital neogotiation should be done before you get there. Out the door price stettled. Last three cars I've bought new has been less than 30 minutes from walking in to driving away.
> 
> 1. Do your own financing.
> 2. Know exactly what you want, including option packages, what you MUST have vs what you WANT to have.
> 3. DO NOT TRADE IN. Sell privately, maybe sell it to CARMAX, but trade in is just another pathway to both spending more time and losing more money.
> 4. Search inventory online, most makers have a tool that lets you configure with options and search. Virtually always easier than having a dealer do that for you. And reduces the chance that they might do to you what they did to us, where they brought a new Jeep from South Carolina all the way up here and it wasnt configured as we asked. When questioned, she first insisted it had that option, then told us it didnt matter. So we walked.
> 5. Make sure the deal is set before you show up. You have a blank check go for more than what you negotiated price it.
> 6. Do NOt let them upsell  you on fabric/paint treatments, VIN etching, wheel insurance, any of that crap. If they did it without asking you, they can eat it or inlcude it for free.
> 
> 
> All that being said, I would highly consider a certified pre-pwned vs brand new. The amount of off-lease small SUVs is off the charts. Take adavantage of that fact. Add a factory extended warranty if it makes you feel better, but getting a 2 year old upscale model with 30K and a lot more features for less money can be a great deal.



Can't beat 0% financing though...  ;-)

As for the pre-owned thing, the missus spent the better part of two solid months shopping on line and driving all over creation trying to find the Rav4 or Honda CRV she wanted.  They simply were not out there...and then she ended up getting the new Rav4 for maybe 5K more than one of the better deals she's found used.

Definitely agree on the trade in advice; did a private party sale of the Murano before buying the Rav4.


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## vraiblonde

glhs837 said:


> So, the buying process needn't be painful. Develop the price you are willing to pay, depending on the vehicle. New ones in high demand you might have to pay MSRP. Anything other than high demand should go go for some amount over invoice. Say $500-$1000. Work from there. Email dealers, ones that wont discuss price via email, kiss them goodbye. You inital neogotiation should be done before you get there. Out the door price stettled. Last three cars I've bought new has been less than 30 minutes from walking in to driving away.
> 
> 1. Do your own financing.
> 2. Know exactly what you want, including option packages, what you MUST have vs what you WANT to have.
> 3. DO NOT TRADE IN. Sell privately, maybe sell it to CARMAX, but trade in is just another pathway to both spending more time and losing more money.
> 4. Search inventory online, most makers have a tool that lets you configure with options and search. Virtually always easier than having a dealer do that for you. And reduces the chance that they might do to you what they did to us, where they brought a new Jeep from South Carolina all the way up here and it wasnt configured as we asked. When questioned, she first insisted it had that option, then told us it didnt matter. So we walked.
> 5. Make sure the deal is set before you show up. You have a blank check go for more than what you negotiated price it.
> 6. Do NOt let them upsell  you on fabric/paint treatments, VIN etching, wheel insurance, any of that crap. If they did it without asking you, they can eat it or inlcude it for free.
> 
> 
> All that being said, I would highly consider a certified pre-pwned vs brand new. The amount of off-lease small SUVs is off the charts. Take adavantage of that fact. Add a factory extended warranty if it makes you feel better, but getting a 2 year old upscale model with 30K and a lot more features for less money can be a great deal.



This was very helpful, thank you!     

I don't require a lot of bells and whistles on my vehicles.  Cup holder placement and ability to comfortably hold a 44 oz soda is very important to me, if that gives you any idea.  I'm also not a fan of them wasting cargo space with a spare tire that could be mounted on the back of the vehicle like it's supposed to be.  What I really want is an exact replica of my 2006 Rav4, which is why I was considering just having it rebuilt.  I don't want a new car; I want my car to be new again.


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## Kyle

vraiblonde said:


> What I really want is an exact replica of my 2006 Rav4, which is why I was considering just having it rebuilt.



What failed?  Engine or Transmission?


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## NextJen

vraiblonde said:


> This is a dumb question, but:
> 
> What exactly is 0% financing?  Does that mean that if the car is, say, $24k, they break that down into however many payments and you don't pay interest on the loan?



Yes.  I purchased a new 2018 Tacoma in April at Koons Toyota of Annapolis.  They offered 0% financing through Toyota Credit.  Basically I borrowed money for free: the amount that I financed broken down into equal payments for the term of the loan.  Couldn't pass that up!


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## Clem72

Thing to keep in mind about 0% financing is that if they offer you a rebate in lieu of financing, that's actually a financing fee. Like when the Ford dealer says you can have $1000 cash or 0% financing, what they are really saying is that they charge $1000 for that financing. For a $30k car on a 4 year loan, $1000 works out to just over 1.5% interest (it would be 3% on a $15k car loan).  Still a pretty good rate, but not 0%


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## vraiblonde

Kyle said:


> What failed?  Engine or Transmission?



It's consuming oil like a big dog, needs a new paint job, some minor body work and a few other piddly things.  There's 155k miles on it.  I'm concerned about reliable transportation and not having it keel over on some interstate.

I am still open to refurbishing it rather than get involved in a new vehicle relationship, but I'm leery of a rebuilt engine.


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## Clem72

vraiblonde said:


> It's consuming oil like a big dog



You probably shouldn't feed dogs oil, or antifreeze. I'm pretty sure I heard that somewhere before.


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## Kyle

Clem72 said:


> You probably shouldn't feed dogs oil, or antifreeze. I'm pretty sure I heard that somewhere before.



Think that was cats.


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## glhs837

Clem72 said:


> Thing to keep in mind about 0% financing is that if they offer you a rebate in lieu of financing, that's actually a financing fee. Like when the Ford dealer says you can have $1000 cash or 0% financing, what they are really saying is that they charge $1000 for that financing. For a $30k car on a 4 year loan, $1000 works out to just over 1.5% interest (it would be 3% on a $15k car loan).  Still a pretty good rate, but not 0%



The interlocking discounts system is yet another shell game regarding what you can get with what. "$1000 Loyalty Discount*!!!!!!!!" (*Must be used on available delaer inventory, cannot be combined with any other offer,, can only be used by leftahnded albinos born with one testicle)

Thats where the Out the Door price thing comes in. Do NOt engage in that swamp of discounts, tell them to apply what they need to to get you your price. This avoids the whole tapped ina  small room four hours while some mouth breather works a foursquare on you.


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## Gilligan

vraiblonde said:


> It's consuming oil like a big dog, needs a new paint job, some minor body work and a few other piddly things.  There's 155k miles on it.  I'm concerned about reliable transportation and not having it keel over on some interstate.
> 
> I am still open to refurbishing it rather than get involved in a new vehicle relationship, but I'm leery of a rebuilt engine.



You are talking about spending one heck of a chunk of money that will likely not give you the result you are hoping for. At 155K, it's not just the engine that has accumulated a lot of wear. Quality paint work is very expensive these days too. I have a fully equipped shop and still didn't hesitate to send our 2004 Murano (215K miles) and 2000 Grand Cherokee (195K miles) "up the road" once it was apparent  the list of things needing rebuilding was growing too long..


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## glhs837

Gilligan said:


> You are talking about spending one heck of a chunk of money that will likely not give you the result you are hoping for. At 155K, it's not just the engine that has accumulated a lot of wear. Quality paint work is very expensive these days too. I have a fully equipped shop and still didn't hesitate to send our 2004 Murano (215K miles) and 2000 Grand Cherokee (195K miles) "up the road" once it was apparent  the list of things needing rebuilding was growing too long..



Agreed, once you reach a certain point, any possible money you put in is just increasing your debt in the vehicle, not increasing it's value. And I say that as a guy who owns three vehicles over 100K. Let it go "live on a farm" somehwere.


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## Gilligan

glhs837 said:


> And I say that as a guy who owns three vehicles over 100K..



My '91 Toyota SR5 has 167k, my '89 F-250 4x4 has 375k, and my '78 Bronco has a bit over 300K on it...   Some of 'em you can keep around a throw an engine or two in, but they tend to be an older generation of vehicle:


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## vraiblonde

Gilligan said:


> You are talking about spending one heck of a chunk of money that will likely not give you the result you are hoping for.



Yeah  

It's like spending big money to buy my grandmother a new heart for her 100th birthday.  It's more for sentimental purposes than any practicality.


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## GWguy

Mine are just babies by comparison at 55K and 5K.  And I'm already thinking of trading up on the 2014 GMC truck.


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## GWguy

vraiblonde said:


> Yeah
> 
> It's like spending big money to buy my grandmother a new heart for her 100th birthday.  It's more for sentimental purposes than any practicality.



Ok, so do like Berts.  Gut it and mount it on the top of the RV.  You can still have it with you wherever you go!


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## Kyle

glhs837 said:


> Agreed, once you reach a certain point, any possible money you put in is just increasing your debt in the vehicle, not increasing it's value. And I say that as a guy who owns three vehicles over 100K. Let it go "live on a farm" somehwere.



Every truck I've ever owned had 250k-300k when we parted way. 

Didn't have any major issues with them until the end with the exception of one transmission replacement. ( it was one of the very early electronic transmissions )


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## Gilligan

GWguy said:


> Ok, so do like Berts.  Gut it and mount it on the top of the RV.  You can still have it with you wherever you go!




 ...or cut off the front and make it a trailer..  like dis. That was my favorite pickup truck....  :sniffles:


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## Gilligan

vraiblonde said:


> Yeah
> 
> It's like spending big money to buy my grandmother a new heart for her 100th birthday.  It's more for sentimental purposes than any practicality.



Your analogy......LOL!!


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> ...or cut off the front and make it a trailer..  like dis. That was my favorite pickup truck....  :sniffles:



Used to see a lot of those pickup bed conversions.

Not so much anymore.


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> Used to see a lot of those pickup bed conversions.
> 
> Not so much anymore.



They all got........too rusty.


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## glhs837

Gilligan said:


> My '91 Toyota SR5 has 167k, my '89 F-250 4x4 has 375k, and my '78 Bronco has a bit over 300K on it...   Some of 'em you can keep around a throw an engine or two in, but they tend to be an older generation of vehicle:





Kyle said:


> Every truck I've ever owned had 250k-300k when we parted way.
> 
> Didn't have any major issues with them until the end with the exception of one transmission replacement. ( it was one of the very early electronic transmissions )





What works for us mechnical types isnt always applicable to the "normals". Heck, I bought a 150K engine to drop into the 180K 98 BMW  BeaterMW is at 150K. Boys cast off 99 BMW is the baby at 125K.


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## GURPS

vraiblonde said:


> Yeah





3 k for a quality rebuilt engine ..... 
2 k for a quality rebuilt trans ..... 

paint :shrug: who really cares 

vs a 30 thousand dollar new vehicle  ... [or more]


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## Gilligan

GURPS said:


> 3 k for a quality rebuilt engine .....
> 2 k for a quality rebuilt trans .....
> 
> paint :shrug: who really cares
> 
> vs a 30 thousand dollar new vehicle  ... [or more]



Took a very skilled buddy and I over 100 man-hours to swap out a blown 3.3 V6 in a Nissan Frontier 4x4. In-family job; did it mostly for free labor and the parts cost was around 3 grand total.  I wouldn't touch another swap like that if you paid me the $100+ and hour that any shop would charge..

I admit I DID consider rebuilding the straight 6 in my 2000 Cherokee..before the transmission started acting funny, the heater core went out, and a strange noise started emanating from the right front wheel...


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## GURPS

Gilligan said:


> Took a very skilled buddy and I over 100 man-hours to swap out a blown 3.3 V6 in a Nissan Frontier 4x4.



wtf .... 

I guess I am spoiled with easy to work on 96 Ford Broncos, FSJ Grand Wagoneers  .....  
my Aviator does not look too bad, but I am getting to old to work in my own #### anymore 





> I admit I DID consider rebuilding the straight 6 in my 2000 Cherokee..before the transmission started acting funny, the heater core went out, and a strange noise started emanating from the right front wheel




seriously that is all cheap #### to fix compared to a 50k note  .... what you probably lack is TIME


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## Gilligan

GURPS said:


> wtf ....
> 
> I guess I am spoiled with easy to work on 96 Ford Broncos, FSJ Grand Wagoneers  .....
> my Aviator does not look too bad, but I am getting to old to work in my own #### anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seriously that is all cheap #### to fix compared to a 50k note  .... what you probably lack is TIME



Time is too valuable and a limited commodity.  I have too many projects that are competing for it.


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## stgislander

gilligan said:


> time is too valuable and a limited commodity.  I have too many projects that are competing for it.



must...not... Comment.  Must...leave ...it ...for ...mg.


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## Kyle

stgislander said:


> Comment.  Must...leave ...it ...for ...mg.



I dont' think SOMDs resident Hall Monitor gets up this early.


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## Gilligan

stgislander said:


> must...not... Comment.  Must...leave ...it ...for ...mg.



Come on...let's have it...


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## glhs837

Todays project. Well, it was yesterdays, but due to Amazon not getting the new pump ($130 for Bosch, vice $240 at the local guys store brand) not getting the new one here til tomorrow. Of course, the 2015 Jeep acted up two days back and is in the shop. Two other vehicles here, both stick, so I'm driving the wife around.


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## GURPS

glhs837 said:


> Of course, the 2015 Jeep acted up two days back and is in the shop.





Your Misfortunes are, well unfortunate   ...  I'll stick to my cheap(er) used vehicles


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## Gilligan

GURPS said:


> Your Misfortunes are, well unfortunate   ...  I'll stick to my cheap(er) used vehicles



Missus had her 2018 Rav4 back to the dealership twice to track down a battery drain that was leaving it dead if it sat more than 24-36 hours.  Second time they really went after the problem with all sorts of current detecting stuff hooked up. Turned out the heater in the driver's seat was coming on randomly, even when vehicle was parked and shut down.

Not fixed yet...just disconnected the seat heater harness...


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## GWguy

Gilligan said:


> Missus had her 2018 Rav4 back to the dealership twice to track down a battery drain that was leaving it dead if it sat more than 24-36 hours.  Second time they really went after the problem with all sorts of current detecting stuff hooked up. Turned out the heater in the driver's seat was coming on randomly, even when vehicle was parked and shut down.
> 
> Not fixed yet...just disconnected the seat heater harness...



The Rise of the Machines.  They're just now starting to feel out their range and power.


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## Gilligan

GWguy said:


> The Rise of the Machines.  They're just now starting to feel out their range and power.



I have to wonder.....


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## glhs837

GURPS said:


> Your Misfortunes are, well unfortunate   ...  I'll stick to my cheap(er) used vehicles





Gilligan said:


> Missus had her 2018 Rav4 back to the dealership twice to track down a battery drain that was leaving it dead if it sat more than 24-36 hours.  Second time they really went after the problem with all sorts of current detecting stuff hooked up. Turned out the heater in the driver's seat was coming on randomly, even when vehicle was parked and shut down.
> 
> Not fixed yet...just disconnected the seat heater harness...



Gurps, thats why the rest of the fleet is cheap and old. $1500 2001 325, $1500 1999 323, $2000 1998 3238. This jeep is the wifes, since the last two new ones had been mine, it was her turn. 


Hmmm, oddly enough, this recent acting up, which tripped six or seven codes, about four ETC related, one cam position sensor, and one U code that I cant identify.  According to the dealership, they went away once they charged up the battery. Which gave no signs of not being fully charged, mind you. This is the third battery for this Jeep. All high quality AGMs. From three different "brands" although there's only one or two makers for these. This one is less than a year old. Guy mentioned they looked for parasitic drain, but couldn't find any. Told him I would be happy is the damn this would at least give some freakin indication that it had a problem. Factory battery in the 06 Charger lasted I think seven years. This thing, started acting up Wed morning on the wife on her way to work. Stumbling a bit, Service 4x4, Service ETC, Service Engine Start/Stop. All went away when she started it at lunch except a CEL. Came home, I started it up, pulled those codes. Shut it off, then back on, CEL was gone, codes still active. Wife mentions she just got a Health report in her email, Jeep says it's fine.  Took a drive, it stumbled on me. Take it in the next morning, no CEL, no stumbles. Guy reads codes, says they will look at it later.


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## Gilligan

glhs837 said:


> Gurps, thats why the rest of the fleet is cheap and old.



I can barely recall the last times my '78 Bronco gave me any problems. I do recall having the mag pickup in the distributor go flakey around 1993..and had a valve spring break on return 6-hour trip from my hunting grounds in VA around 1997.  Oh..and the fuel pump died half way through Trail 4 in the now-closed Tellico ORV area near Murphy, NC...that was about 2002 as best I recall.  

I like old. It's tough.


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## Monello

Gilligan said:


> I like old. It's tough.


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## Clem72

glhs837 said:


> The interlocking discounts system is yet another shell game regarding what you can get with what. "$1000 Loyalty Discount*!!!!!!!!" (*Must be used on available delaer inventory, cannot be combined with any other offer,, can only be used by leftahnded albinos born with one testicle)
> 
> Thats where the Out the Door price thing comes in. Do NOt engage in that swamp of discounts, tell them to apply what they need to to get you your price. This avoids the whole tapped ina  small room four hours while some mouth breather works a foursquare on you.



I have shopped out the door quotes for my last few vehicles. On more than one occasion they still trapped me for multiple hours.  I mean seriously, I have a quote in hand and told you I will not buy anything additional or use your financing. Why do I need to wait 4 hours to complete the transaction.

I also had a dealer here get mad at me and tell me they couldn't honor the quote for my vehicle trade-in because the window had scratches from the wiper blade. Nevermind they wiped off, they are in there (just invisible now).


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## GURPS

glhs837 said:


> Gurps, thats why the rest of the fleet is cheap and old. $1500 2001 325, $1500 1999 323, $2000 1998 3238.


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## GURPS

Gilligan said:


> I do recall having the mag pickup in the distributor go flakey around 1993




I just had this rectified in the 96


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## GWguy

GURPS said:


> I just had this rectified in the 96



"mag pickup"  "distributor"  "_rectified_"???

oh so bad.......


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## glhs837

Clem72 said:


> I have shopped out the door quotes for my last few vehicles. On more than one occasion they still trapped me for multiple hours.  I mean seriously, I have a quote in hand and told you I will not buy anything additional or use your financing. Why do I need to wait 4 hours to complete the transaction.
> 
> I also had a dealer here get mad at me and tell me they couldn't honor the quote for my vehicle trade-in because the window had scratches from the wiper blade. Nevermind they wiped off, they are in there (just invisible now).




Yeag, trade in's are a pain. How did they trap you? You have a price, you have the money, they have the vehicle what excuse was there? All three times, the longest part was the F&I guy who finalizes the deal and writes it up. "I understand, you have to make your pitch, but understand up front, none of it will convince me add any of it to this vehicle, so just keep it to the minimum required." The longest was the Neon in FL, the guy simply couldnt understand why I was passing on the Wheel Theft Protection. In Miami, maybe that makes sense  






glhs837 said:


> Gurps, thats why the rest of the fleet is cheap and old. $1500 2001 325, $1500 1999 323, $2000 1998 3238. This jeep is the wifes, since the last two new ones had been mine, it was her turn.
> 
> 
> Hmmm, oddly enough, this recent acting up, which tripped six or seven codes, about four ETC related, one cam position sensor, and one U code that I cant identify.  According to the dealership, they went away once they charged up the battery. Which gave no signs of not being fully charged, mind you. This is the third battery for this Jeep. All high quality AGMs. From three different "brands" although there's only one or two makers for these. This one is less than a year old. Guy mentioned they looked for parasitic drain, but couldn't find any. Told him I would be happy is the damn this would at least give some freakin indication that it had a problem. Factory battery in the 06 Charger lasted I think seven years. This thing, started acting up Wed morning on the wife on her way to work. Stumbling a bit, Service 4x4, Service ETC, Service Engine Start/Stop. All went away when she started it at lunch except a CEL. Came home, I started it up, pulled those codes. Shut it off, then back on, CEL was gone, codes still active. Wife mentions she just got a Health report in her email, Jeep says it's fine.  Took a drive, it stumbled on me. Take it in the next morning, no CEL, no stumbles. Guy reads codes, says they will look at it later.



So, the dealership says they performed an "Adaptive Relearn", and they charged up the battery (new in March) and checked it for bad cells. Codes all gone, but it needs three drive cyles to ensure it's all good. We take it back on Noon on Sat after one, since they cant say when they will get the other two drive cycles. Each drive cycle needs you to get it up to operating temp, park it, then let it sit for 8 or more hours. Sat afternoon we take it down to Ridge, no issues. Sunday AM, we head up to Target. Get out, leaving wife behind and Jeep running for AC, when I close the door, it stall and dies. Well. Get stuff, restart it, in drive, foot on brake, dies again when AC is turned on..... E throttle is acting more like stick throttle, meaning limp mode. Make it to the Food Lion Parking lot, but it's not happy. Shut off, restart, it seems fine except for a CEL. Drop wife off at Wally, make it to Park Dodge. 

Leave novel write up and key in the drop box. They say it's a crank sensor which will take three days to get. Gotta say the extended warranty is paying for itself.


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## GURPS

I like Jeeps, but this seems like a Lemon


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## glhs837

GURPS said:


> I like Jeeps, but this seems like a Lemon



Well, it's racked up over 75K since we got it summer of 2015. My big problem is that the damn thig doesnt communicate well. And I sorta get it, when we talk about what the nend user of the system wants to see/know vs what we think they need to know here at work, we get into that. Does the end user need to be able to dive deep into systems indications they most likely wont understand, and even if they could, are most likely not qualified to attempt a repair? 

Just eats my soul that the damn thing can just up and die, then send a health report that says "Yep, I"m just fine, nothing to report here".


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## Gilligan

glhs837 said:


> Well, it's racked up over 75K since we got it summer of 2015. My big problem is that the damn thig doesnt communicate well. And I sorta get it, when we talk about what the nend user of the system wants to see/know vs what we think they need to know here at work, we get into that. Does the end user need to be able to dive deep into systems indications they most likely wont understand, and even if they could, are most likely not qualified to attempt a repair?
> 
> Just eats my soul that the damn thing can just up and die, then send a health report that says "Yep, I"m just fine, nothing to report here".



I have a pretty good OBDII diag system installed on a Toughbook; it's been very, very handy...especially for trapping the kinds of strange and intermittent problems like yours.


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## glhs837

Gilligan said:


> I have a pretty good OBDII diag system installed on a Toughbook; it's been very, very handy...especially for trapping the kinds of strange and intermittent problems like yours.



For normal OBDII, I can get all the federally madated stuff with a cheapie bluetooth adapter and Torque, even the free version. Of course, maker specific stuff isnt that easy. All the codes it popped were readable except one, and that's a U prefix, which if I recall right means bus traffic. But if the damn thing pops 6 or 7 codes, it should at least say "Hey Lady, I gots problems, take me in. " Or maybe a "I'm tried, Boss, real tired" in the health email it sends. Same thing when it somply died in an intersection last fall, display went dark, gauges died, engine stopped. After slapping it in Park and hitting the start button, it acted like nothing was wrong, damn thing didnt even set a CEL. Pulled codes, nothing. On the dealership machine, it puked up 5-6 codes, but since they were all transmission related it didnt set any I could see.


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## Gilligan

glhs837 said:


> For normal OBDII, I can get all the federally madated stuff with a cheapie bluetooth adapter and Torque, even the free version. Of course, maker specific stuff isnt that easy. All the codes it popped were readable except one, and that's a U prefix, which if I recall right means bus traffic. But if the damn thing pops 6 or 7 codes, it should at least say "Hey Lady, I gots problems, take me in. " Or maybe a "I'm tried, Boss, real tired" in the health email it sends. Same thing when it somply died in an intersection last fall, display went dark, gauges died, engine stopped. After slapping it in Park and hitting the start button, it acted like nothing was wrong, damn thing didnt even set a CEL. Pulled codes, nothing. On the dealership machine, it puked up 5-6 codes, but since they were all transmission related it didnt set any I could see.



Sounds like you need to call Ghost Busters.....


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## nutz

Gilligan said:


> Sounds like you need to call Ghost Busters.....



Nah, he just needs a laptop and a 12 year old   What's the common point failure item (or wire/pin) of all the codes?


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## glhs837

Gilligan said:


> Sounds like you need to call Ghost Busters.....





nutz said:


> Nah, he just needs a laptop and a 12 year old   What's the common point failure item (or wire/pin) of all the codes?





No telling without on a canbus networked car like this without being able to see the bus traffic. There's not a common point in a harness. When it died completely, they diagnosed a bad shifter module, but I kept getting other unrelated indications that only went away when I swapped the battery. We used to see this sort of thing with the advent of digital weapons system test sets. Dirty power would cause all sorts of wackadoo indications, but never ones related to power. I suspect it's going to eventually go back to the power generation system. Recently, it started killing the heated or cooled seats when we hit the disable button for the Engine Start/Stop System. I suspect some form of load shedding is happening. But they have to follow thier process.


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