# Southern County Youth Football & Cheerleading



## youthfootball

What is everyones thoughts on giving St. Mary's a New League???

Please visit at www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## Just Me

youthfootball said:
			
		

> What is everyones thoughts on giving St. Mary's a New League???
> 
> Please visit at www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com



I'm sure some people will welcome it. Personally I don't think there are enough kids and or resources to start another one up, let alone finding refs. for the games.

Why can't I download any information about weight limits. etc. ?

It's always nice to see a website for a kid program that has a disclamer:

"Warning: eteamz is not responsible for the contents of files uploaded by its members. Download at your own risk."


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## BuddyLee

They should start a league for older folks 18+. THAT would be interesting.


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## Dougstermd

Just Me said:
			
		

> I'm sure some people will welcome it. Personally I don't think there are enough kids and or resources to start another one up, let alone finding refs. for the games.
> 
> Why can't I download any information about weight limits. etc. ?
> 
> It's always nice to see a website for a kid program that has a disclamer:
> 
> "Warning: eteamz is not responsible for the contents of files uploaded by its members. Download at your own risk."


  
I cannot understand where they will find fields to play on


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## thrasher

Thank you very much for starting a new league!! Everybody in St. Mary’s co. really needed it. Like in baseball there are chooses i.e. baseball: little league/babe Ruth/ select etc. now we all have that in football, the greatest game ever. I have coached for 6 years and it is time to play this game fair with the kids coming first NOT the coaches. I have told my son and he can’t wait to play for the Ravens, Ray Lewis is his favorite player. If you need anything let me know, I can get it!!!! :


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## Kain99

Well I listen to T-Bone and Heather... Lemme tell ya'll sumpin!  We NEED a new league.  Crazy psycho running the current one is running it into the ground.

So... I vote yes!  I done heard all about that guy!


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## youthfootball

Everyone remember to check out www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## Comet65

*Locations?*

Just checked out your website - wondering you have the team names but no locations listed?  Where will this league be playing at?  Might be helpful for parents thinking about joining.  Thanks!


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## smilin

thrasher said:
			
		

> looks like they must have posted the locations; i see them on the main page now.



Southern County Youth Football Teams

Lexington Park Raiders
Lexington Park Patriots

Hollywood Ravens
Hollywood Falcons

Charlotte Hall Chiefs
Charlotte Hall Bills

Looks like the leagues are going to have to share the available fields. Interesting concept - cooperation.


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## youthfootball

smilin said:
			
		

> Southern County Youth Football Teams
> 
> Lexington Park Raiders
> Lexington Park Patriots
> 
> Hollywood Ravens
> Hollywood Falcons
> 
> Charlotte Hall Chiefs
> Charlotte Hall Bills
> 
> Looks like the leagues are going to have to share the available fields. Interesting concept - cooperation.



I have met with Parks & Rec. and the fields have been secured for the New league.... The Playing and practice fields will not be an issue... 

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## youthfootball

I invite everyone to attend a meeting we will be having in Jan.

Please check out our web site. 

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## smilin

youthfootball said:
			
		

> I have met with Parks & Rec. and the fields have been secured for the New league.... The Playing and practice fields will not be an issue...
> 
> www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com




COOL - cooperation AND organization!


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## youthfootball

Remember to check out the New League...

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## GhostWriter

*Parents thinking of joining the new league.*

Before joining this new league, please beware that this league is not established like the Pigskin League is.  It requires a lot of time and dedication to make a football league work and even if this league does work, they will have the same type of issues as Pigskin or any other league around the world has.

The new league needs to come clean with what the expect, like traveling out of the county weekly just to play a different team....  were will they get the necessary equipment from to provide the children with safe gear.  Also they advertise that the new league will not require concessions of fund raisers, the pigskin league gives a lot of the fund raiser money back to the team for the year end party, will the new league provide money for the team party at the end of the year or will the parents need to come out of pocket for that, either way you slice it sell pizzas or give money at the end of the year it all works out the same.  Playing fields is a big question, maybe they are not doing conessions because they have no fields to play at.

Enough said, just beware that this new league as a lot of questions to answer.


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## slotted

GhostWriter said:
			
		

> Before joining this new league, please beware that this league is not established like the Pigskin League is.  It requires a lot of time and dedication to make a football league work and even if this league does work, they will have the same type of issues as Pigskin or any other league around the world has.
> 
> The new league needs to come clean with what the expect, like traveling out of the county weekly just to play a different team....  were will they get the necessary equipment from to provide the children with safe gear.  Also they advertise that the new league will not require concessions of fund raisers, the pigskin league gives a lot of the fund raiser money back to the team for the year end party, will the new league provide money for the team party at the end of the year or will the parents need to come out of pocket for that, either way you slice it sell pizzas or give money at the end of the year it all works out the same.  Playing fields is a big question, maybe they are not doing conessions because they have no fields to play at.
> 
> Enough said, just beware that this new league as a lot of questions to answer.



GhostWriter, why don't you attend the meeting in January. I'm sure many of your questions will be answered.


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## nomoney

GhostWriter said:
			
		

> Before joining this new league, please beware that this league is not established like the Pigskin League is. It requires a lot of time and dedication to make a football league work and even if this league does work, they will have the same type of issues as Pigskin or any other league around the world has.
> 
> The new league needs to come clean with what the expect, like traveling out of the county weekly just to play a different team.... were will they get the necessary equipment from to provide the children with safe gear. Also they advertise that the new league will not require concessions of fund raisers, the pigskin league gives a lot of the fund raiser money back to the team for the year end party, will the new league provide money for the team party at the end of the year or will the parents need to come out of pocket for that, either way you slice it sell pizzas or give money at the end of the year it all works out the same. Playing fields is a big question, maybe they are not doing conessions because they have no fields to play at.
> 
> Enough said, just beware that this new league as a lot of questions to answer.


 
All of which will work itself out in the first year or so.  Even the pigskin league had to start somewhere from scratch.


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## slotted

nomoney said:
			
		

> All of which will work itself out in the first year or so.  Even the pigskin league had to start somewhere from scratch.


I've been told by a good friend of the guy starting the league that fields are worked out, and equipment is taking care of. It's all hearsay now, but I trust the guy, and will be at the meeting in January if I'm not on travel.


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## GhostWriter

thrasher said:
			
		

> The way I see it is when Southern County Football has 4 to 6 teams per age group in 06'. Pigskin will be traveling and with less teams they dont need all those fields.



OK
You will be lucky if you get 3 teams per age group, pigskin supported atleast 8 teams per age group and still played some teams twice.  There's no way this league will generate that many registrations, where will all of this registrations come from??????, the only registrations the new league will get are going be from the pigskin league and that number will be low.

So if you get three teams that means the same game every other week, the kids would really enjoy that.  Believe me you will be traveling.
Sorry.........


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## nomoney

GhostWriter said:
			
		

> OK
> You will be lucky if you get 3 teams per age group, pigskin supported atleast 8 teams per age group and still played some teams twice. There's no way this league will generate that many registrations, where will all of this registrations come from??????, the only registrations the new league will get are going be from the pigskin league and that number will be low.
> 
> So if you get three teams that means the same game every other week, the kids would really enjoy that. Believe me you will be traveling.
> Sorry.........


 
Why all the negativity?


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## PrepH4U

GhostWriter said:
			
		

> OK
> You will be lucky if you get 3 teams per age group, pigskin supported atleast 8 teams per age group and still played some teams twice.  There's no way this league will generate that many registrations, where will all of this registrations come from??????, the only registrations the new league will get are going be from the pigskin league and that number will be low.
> 
> So if you get three teams that means the same game every other week, the kids would really enjoy that.  Believe me you will be traveling.
> Sorry.........


Yep you are probably right no one from the ghetto south would ever think of leaving the pigskin league!


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## youthfootball

PrepH4U said:
			
		

> Yep you are probably right no one from the ghetto south would ever think of leaving the pigskin league!



I can promise you the New League will treat everyone the same no matter what zip code you live in. It is all about the childern not where you live or who you know. I look foward to seeing everyone of you at our meeting..


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## thrasher

GhostWriter said:
			
		

> OK
> You will be lucky if you get 3 teams per age group, pigskin supported atleast 8 teams per age group and still played some teams twice.  There's no way this league will generate that many registrations, where will all of this registrations come from??????, the only registrations the new league will get are going be from the pigskin league and that number will be low.
> 
> So if you get three teams that means the same game every other week, the kids would really enjoy that.  Believe me you will be traveling.
> Sorry.........



OK WE TRAVEL, WE HAVE HAD 3 HOME GAMES A YEAR FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS AND HAVE TRAVELED THE REST. WHATS THE DIFFERECNCE! MY KIDS ONLY WORRY ABOUT A GAME THAT IS CALLED FARE AND WILL TRAVEL THE GREAT STATE OF MARYLAND TO GET IT.


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## smilin

Well Youthfootball, you certainly have touched all the bases, touched a few sensitive nerves and seem to be ready to go.
Congratulations! I wish you well and expect to see you in January at your meeting, probably along with quite a few dirgruntled or curious parents too.


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## youthfootball

smilin said:
			
		

> Well Youthfootball, you certainly have touched all the bases, touched a few sensitive nerves and seem to be ready to go.
> Congratulations! I wish you well and expect to see you in January at your meeting, probably along with quite a few dirgruntled or curious parents too.




Can't wait to see everyone there.


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## BigRed

good luck...I saw how well the Osprey's worked out.


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## youthfootball

BigRed said:
			
		

> good luck...I saw how well the Osprey's worked out.




The Osprey's has nothing to do with Southern County Youth Football, nor does Pigskin football..


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## BigRed

youthfootball said:
			
		

> The Osprey's has nothing to do with Southern County Youth Football, nor does Pigskin football..



Did anybody say they did??

Butyou're wrong in the sense that niether one of them have anything to do with your new league.  In fact, your new league is going to rely very heavilly on what people think about Pigskin.

I'm sorry if I have problems with you.  Everything seems to be such a secret with you, and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over.  

If this league makes it for more than a year....and if by some chances manages to be around as long as Pigskin, it will have the same problems...they only way to eliminate most of those problems is to keep the parents away from the games.

And no, I won't be at your meeting


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## youthfootball

BigRed said:
			
		

> Did anybody say they did??
> 
> Butyou're wrong in the sense that niether one of them have anything to do with your new league.  In fact, your new league is going to rely very heavilly on what people think about Pigskin.
> 
> I'm sorry if I have problems with you.  Everything seems to be such a secret with you, and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over.
> 
> If this league makes it for more than a year....and if by some chances manages to be around as long as Pigskin, it will have the same problems...they only way to eliminate most of those problems is to keep the parents away from the games.
> 
> And no, I won't be at your meeting



There are know secrets you are more then welcome to call me at 301-862-4155 or visit our web site.. southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## youthfootball

Southern County Youth Football & Cheerleading would like to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year.

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## smilin

I see your coaches are going to be NYSCA certified.


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## youthfootball

smilin said:
			
		

> I see your coaches are going to be NYSCA certified.




All Coaches must have a background check performed and Be certified by NYSCA before they will be able to work with any childern. NO EXCEPTIONS..


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## reelsdeals

I don't understand the animosity towards someone who is willing to devote their time, effort and enthusiasm towards an effort to having another option for our children to play football.  Why down someone for trying to make change?  Everyone should be patting him on the back, thanking him for taking the initiative to do this.  Why has it taken so long for this change to come about?  Because no one else wanted to take on the responsibility of forming a new league.  I know him personally and he is a stand up guy and isn't being secretive.  There are reasons things are being done the way they are and if you attend the meeting, then you will understand all this.  This new league isn't being formed to put out Pigskin, compete with them or anything like that.  It is another outlet to let our children compete and have fun, what's wrong with that?  I will be coaching and look forward to working with the founder and coaching the kids.  Seeing the kids come from not knowing what a football is to being able to run complicated plays and compete is awesome and I can't wait.  Look forward to seeing everyone next month when we have our meeting.


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## reelsdeals

And, if anyone else hasn't stated previously, thank you for taking your time and efforts in forming this new league.  I've told you that in person before, but again, thanks for all you are doing to help this effort.


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## youthfootball

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## slotted

youthfootball,
Will there be video of the meeting? Or possibly more meetings in the following months. I will be going on travel on the 18th through the end of the month and won't make January's.


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## youthfootball

We will be holding our meeting on Feb. 10th... Check out our web site tonight I will be posting the location & time on the web site..


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## youthfootball

MEETING: 
Date: Feb. 10th 2006
Time: 7:00p.m. - 10:00p.m.
Location: Chancellor's Run Regional Park. The Teen Center Bldg.
Address: 21905 Chancellors Run Rd. Great Mills, Md. 20634

This meeting is open to the public however, space is limited to 150 people. Due to limited space, we are asking childern not to attend. We will be discussing the new league in detail. www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com 

Equipment & Uniforms will be on display at the meeting...

Please come out and join us....


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## youthfootball

Please join us for our meeting....

Visit www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## smilin

*Invite for Feb. 10th*



			
				youthfootball said:
			
		

> Please join us for our meeting....
> 
> Visit www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com



Thanks for the invite.
I don't understand all the hostility either. It seems to me that if someone decides to start something they think will work better than what's existing, you should say thanks. Not crucify them for trying to improve things. Competiton usually improves and clears up who's doing a better job, it certainly does'nt look like anyone is hiding anything. Refreshingly there are no threats, name calling or any lawsuits being thrown around, just an open invitation to see what's going on.
Maybe this has brought out some concern that the existing league is going to lose out and may not be around if it can't change and improve. I would think the existing league would open it's arms to the new league just to get rid of all the parents, the morons who don't know anything and people critical of their league. You can't be scared of a challenge. If you get scared then maybe there is room for improvement and change.
If you don't like it, (ignore it and) get over it, if you're curious or want to get involved, show up on Feb 10th. 
People should get off their soap boxes and open up their minds a little.


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## smilin

I just noticed that there may be a misconception that your new league is only going to be in the Southern part of the county. 
In fact the new league has fields promised to it throughout St. Marys. I pointed out to a few people that you have fields in Charlotte Hall and Hollywood.


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## youthfootball

This league is for the entire ST. Mary's county... I hope everyone can come out to our meeting on Feb. 10th we will be putting out a lot of great information that I think will clear up a lot of the unknow for the parents.. Hope to see everyone there..


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## youthfootball

Just reminding everyone that we will be holding a meeting for the public on Feb. 10th 2006 7:00 to 10:00 p.m. at the Teen Center. Please check out our web site for directions. Hope to see everyone there..

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## youthfootball

I would like to take this time to say thank-you to everyone that had interest in joining this new league. I had a meeting with the County Commissioners and Parks & Rec. yesterday to decide where Youth football in St. Mary's county is headed. St. Mary's County Parks & Rec. will be presenting to the county about taking the Youth Football Program over. They are trying to get away from leagues that are independently owned. This is a good thing and I have offered all my support to to get this up and running before the season begins. This program would be ran similar to the way Calvert Counties football program is ran. I can ensure you that there program is a huge success. I am asking that everyone in St. Mary's not only support this but also lend a hand as needed. We need to get back to what is important here and that is our kids. So again I say thank-you and this is huge victory for us. The county will offer a great program that we all can take pride in being a part of.

We will still be holding our meeting on Feb. 10th 2006. We will be having Arthur Shepherd Recreation Division Manger speaking.

If for some reason the county does not take over the youth football program we will again start working with the county to get our program up and running.


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## smilin

*What A Great Idea!*



			
				youthfootball said:
			
		

> I would like to take this time to say thank-you to everyone that had interest in joining this new league. I had a meeting with the County Commissioners and Parks & Rec. yesterday to decide where Youth football in St. Mary's county is headed. St. Mary's County Parks & Rec. will be presenting to the county about taking the Youth Football Program over. They are trying to get away from leagues that are independently owned. This is a good thing and I have offered all my support to to get this up and running before the season begins. This program would be ran similar to the way Calvert Counties football program is ran. I can ensure you that there program is a huge success. I am asking that everyone in St. Mary's not only support this but also lend a hand as needed. We need to get back to what is important here and that is our kids. So again I say thank-you and this is huge victory for us. The county will offer a great program that we all can take pride in being a part of.
> 
> We will still be holding our meeting on Feb. 10th 2006. We will be having Arthur Shepherd Recreation Division Manger speaking.
> 
> If for some reason the county does not take over the youth football program we will again start working with the county to get our program up and running.



If the way Kenny Southern and his department run the sports programs of St. Mary's are any indication, this is fantastic news.
I am sure everyone involved in youth football here would applaud this move. It would take Football to a better and higher level in St. Mary's just as basketball and the other sports are. Take a look at Great Mills Basketball to see how competitive they are in SMAC.
Every sport needs to be started and coached at the lowest levels just to be competitive these days. With an organized system such as Parks and recs behind it - you can't get any better!


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## smilin

Couldn't make the meeting on friday night. How did it go? Is there anything we should know about what's happening to youth football in St. Mary's?


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## youthfootball

MEETING: 
Commissioners To Host Public Forum
Date: Feb. 14th 2006
Time: 6:30 P.M.
Location: Lexington Park Libary

This is an open Forum, so please come and show your support for the county taking over Youth Football. The Commissioners have tabled the Parks and Rec. proposal for 30 days, this way they can hear from the citizens. 

I would like to take this time to say thank-you to everyone that came out to our meeting on Feb. 10th. We had some really good thoughts and discussion. I would also like to thank the few people that showed up from the Pigskin League, you had some good questions for Parks and Rec. and this shows that we are all working towards one goal and that is to build something great for our kids. I would like to see everyone show up for this open forum on Feb. 14th to show our support to the County and let them know we are willing to do whatever it takes to help them supply a great Youth Football Program. I would also like to thank Arthur Shepherd Rec. Division Manger for coming out and speaking with us at our meeting. Arthur did a great job answering many of the questions that we had. I am asking that everyone offer there support to the County. I have listed a few names and numbers below for the people that need to be contacted so they know we are backing the county in taking Youth Football over. I would be more then willing to speak with anyone with what is needed to run a club.

County Administrator - George Forrest 301-475-4200 Ext.1321 
President Commissioner - Thomas McKay 301-475-4200 Ext.1300
Director Of Parks & Rec. - Phil Rollins 301-475-4200 Ext. 1811
Recreation Division Manger - Arthur Sheperd 301-475-4200 Ext. 1804
Sports Coordinator - Kenny Southern 301-475-4200 Ext. 1830


                                          Cost Breakdown 

The following is a cost estimate of operating a club. All figures will be based on 1 complete club consisting of Flag thru Unlimited Football Players and Cheerleaders. 

1 club will consist of 8 football teams with 15 players per team. Cheerleading squad per team with 10 members each.

Player Registration:
Flag Football Players   = 15 players at $85.00 ea = $1,275.00
Cheerleaders            = 70 members at $100.00 ea = $7,000.00
Tackle Football Players = 105 players at $160.00 ea = $16,800.00

Total income = $ 25,075

Cost per Flag Football Player:
Game Jersey and Flags = $25.00ea.
Insurance, this will be liability insurance for all players and coaches = $4.25

Cost per Cheerleaders:
Uniforms Skirt & top, kick pants socks and poms = $70.00
Insurance, this will be liability insurance for all Cheerleaders and coaches =$5.25

Cost per Tackle Football Players Pee-wee thru 95lbs.:
Shoulder pads, helmet, practice pants, game pants, game jersey and leg pads = $150.00ea
Insurance, this will be liability insurance for all players and coaches = $6.00ea

Cost per Tackle Football Players 115lbs. thru Unlimited.:
Shoulder pads, helmet, practice pants, game pants, game jersey and leg pads = $160.00ea
Insurance, this will be liability insurance for all players and coaches = $6.00ea

Cost of Referees per Club for the whole season.
Referees will be supplied thru the National Ref. Association =$3500.00

Total Expense:

Football players;        
Flag Football    15 players x $25.00 equipment ea.   = $375 
                15 players x $4.25 insurance ea.   = $63.75

Tackle Football 75 players x $150.00 equipment ea. = $11,250
                 75 players x $6.00   insurance ea. = $450

Tackle Football 30 players x $160.00 equipment ea. = $4,800
                 30 players x $6.00   insurance ea. = $180

Cheerleading;         70 members x $70.00 uniforms ea.   = $4,900
                70 members x $5.25   insurance ea. = $367

Trophies;       190 members x $15.00 ea.            = $2,850

Referees;                                                = $3,500

Field Markers, down box/chain sets, field liners, 
field lime & footballs                               = $800

                                                Total Cost = $29,535.75

Total loss first year: $29535.75 - $25,075 = $4460.75

The club will be doing Bingo baskets, dances, and also looking for sponsors to help offset the prices for this league.

As you can see this is parents not having to do Fundraisers nor concessions.

Each Player keeps his/her Jersey. A $30.00 value.

Each Cheerleader Keeps her socks and kick pants.

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## smilin

Thanks for all the hardwork and the breakdown. Here is the link if anyone wants to Email the appropriate people in Leonardtown with thoughts or suggestions.

http://www.co.saint-marys.md.us/


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## youthfootball

I would like to thank everyone for there support and kind words. This is something that I believe in and I will stick through it until it is completed. I hope I can gain everyones support in helping the County in anything they need to get this program up and running. I thank-you again and I promise you I will keep on doing whatever is needed to give the Kids of St. Mary's County a strong and wonderful Football Program... No matter what it is all about the kids...


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## smilin

I think you had better point out that this cost estimate is the initial cost of setting the league up. Once the equipment is purchased it would be used year after year and depreciated just like any other businness (or league)
The cost would then probably go down after the initial outlay.


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## smilin

Thanks for the explanation. I'm beginning to get the idea. Since I wasn't there, maybe I should keep quiet, but the missinformation is starting already. I mean no harm - just trying explain what I see. I like the no hassle registration bit also, but the hidden costs of running a league should be pointed out when comparing them. All the transparentness of your cost estimates are refreshing to say the least. Let's not forget the improvement in organization which will happen also.
I just wish my kid could go out and play without this cloud. Thanks again for all the hard work you have done for no more reward than the thank you in a kid's smile


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## BigRed

you need to remember that equipment is always going to be an ongoing cost.  It only has a set "life" and must be inspected and certified on a continual basis.  There is never really going to be a profit...although I think the scholarships and whatnot are a great idea.....I just don't see there ever being that kind of money available.  What comes into the league is going to go right back into it.


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## vindog

This no hassle cost still has me confused.  I checked some of the numbers online - $130 covers the costs of a new set of pads, helmet, pants, etc.  Even assuming that you will get most people to sign up at $160 to play, depreciating the equipment over a standard three years turns this into quite the profitable non-profit.  You mentioned that your first year, you would be $5000 in the hole.  If the same kids come back the following year, and only having to spend about 33% of your normal expenses towards equipment replacement / maintenance, you could have as much as $30,000 in the bank every year thereafter.  I don't see how painting public fields, and adding a couple of bleachers willl eat up that much money.  I also don't see much money going into publicly owned fields.....especially with what the county has planned for the willows renovation anyway.  Is south county organized into a not for profit status (with an accountant, regular tax audit, and IRS oversight) or are we just believing that all the money will be reinvested.
Pigskin does a lot of things....some wrong, and some right, but at least one could say that they put their money where the kids are.  The league subsidizes 15 - 20 kids registrations per year, Don himself sponsors a couple, and for all the abuse and hate mail that the man gets, few in the county realize that he has personally floated the league about $100,000 to keep it going over the years.  All this plus annual IRS non profit audits, and people say he isn't in it for the kids....
Honestly guys - I appreciate what you are trying to do.  Competition is a great thing, and if you can get up and running, more power to you, but we all realize what is going on - you need the county to sponsor you in order to get Calvert and Charles to play you as clubs.  And the county's solution?  Somewhat like a dictatorship if you ask me - having a local government step in and destroy a 25 year old organization (which is still applauded on the county website mind you!) in the name of "fairness"?  I have yet to see a county organization or ANY government organization run any operation better than a private one - that may just be the libertarian in me.  You see, I sat in on the county meeting when this proposal came up - the county DID say that they wanted to budget $225,000 to start up this "new" county organization.  (They mentioned that this number was a "worst case" scenario, depending on whether or not Pigskin would genrously roll over and donate their equipment to the county!!!!!)
So what is it?  Is the county going to spend our tax dollars to start up a league?  If they do, will the registration fees still be double what pigskin charges?  If the county doesn't sponsor the league, will the liability allow the club to play outside the county?  What happens when pigskin goes back to aligning itself with Pop Warner football?  
I believe that if you feel strongly enough about your team, about your kids, then work within the organization to fix things.  If you strike out on your own to increase competition, so be it - competition only makes things better.  But don't go getting the county to fight your battles for you.


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## smilin

The profit point was not what I was talking about when I underlined initial cost. The point which I was trying to make was that the costs of this new league will diminish after the initial startup. This may or may not be rolled back into the costs of the following years. 
I think the idea of total cost as opposed to being nickel and dimed by small ongoing fees to enroll to play are opposites and may need to be combined. Pigskin has this with the option of opting out of the fundraiser by paying an extra $55.00. If you want, you can also purchase your jersey for $10.00.
As far as the county running the league, you can't fight city hall. They wouldn't be stepping in if they didn't perceive a need to do so. This also boils down to control, the county has no control over how a private league is run that uses it's facilities. As one of the commissioners said: he didn't want the county turning into an organization to run football, even though I think the Parks and Rec. does an outstanding job of organizing and running the various programs they are involved in.
These details are exactly why you need a responsive, well managed organization. The point we "adults" are missing here is that all this hoT air is at the expense of the kids whom this experience should be fun.


----------



## vindog

I agree wholeheartedly with you that a responsive, well managed organization can be run to support the kids.  I disagree however that you can't fight city hall.  Where was city hall for the past five years in their participation with pigskin?  Does ANYONE realize that the Board of Parks and Recreation has a reserved spot on the executive board?  They made an interesting point during their meeting - that the county has no recourse against the league other than to deny their use of the fields.  Guess what?  That is the same recourse the county has against any business, organization, or individual in the county as well - deny the use of county services (unless of course, it is to a taxpayer / taxpaying organization which is against the law to deny services...).  The problem in any "zero tolerance" solution, is usually that you develop "zero leadership".  
Showing up to the Executive Board meetings and ACTUALLY participating in managing problems within the league was too hard for the county then, what makes anyone believe that it will be easier now?  Furthermore, as a voting member of the board, all the county had to do was show up propose changes, actions, or issues, but they chose not to even show up.  Why?  I think the reason has had something to do with the fact that they quit showing up to board meetings (and observing games on the weekends) about the same time that the county eliminated comp time payments to cut costs.  When they would not get paid to show up to meetings, then they quit showing up.
Now the county wants to hire a Full Time Executive (at a cost to the taxpayers of $55,000 per year) to be a Football commissioner.  So once again, what happens when budgets get tight, and the county can't afford it anymore?  Is football in St. Mary's County going to stop, or be limited to the first 200 kids that sign up?  Sounds like a sham to me....


----------



## vindog

Oh, and another point - what happens when there is a fight on the lacrosse fields....will we now hire a lacrosse commissioner?
I think you make a point in your nickle and dime argument that I just realized - it is the Saturn Car Company approach.  We won't haggle or give you a "deal", but will save you time by having one price.  That works for some, but what about those who budget - not everyone wants their jersey.  The buyout option for fundraisers is there for those that don't want the hassle.  But for all the hassle of selling pizzas, I have seen many kids get excited about selling pizzas for the prizes and wind up running all over the neighborhood.  Our pigskin team last year got back $360 from the league that we used to get all the kids jackets.  Remind me why fundraisers are a bad thing?
Finally, (at least for now) when you said:
"The point which I was trying to make was that the costs of this new league will diminish after the initial startup. This may or may not be rolled back into the costs of the following years."
That scares me - May or may not be rolled back into the organizational costs?  What does may not mean?  Does it mean that it may be rolled into the investor's pockets behind the new league?  If this is run by the county, will the county take any profits from the league and roll that into their general fund to offset budget problems?  The only approach that even makes sense to keep this "for the kids" is a not for profit organization that is monitored by the public and the county, but run by volunteers.


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## smilin

" The only approach that even makes sense to keep this "for the kids" is a not for profit organization that is monitored by the public and the county, but run by volunteers. "


Good point, you should never assume and never be too sure.


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## youthfootball

vindog said:
			
		

> This no hassle cost still has me confused.  I checked some of the numbers online - $130 covers the costs of a new set of pads, helmet, pants, etc.  Even assuming that you will get most people to sign up at $160 to play, depreciating the equipment over a standard three years turns this into quite the profitable non-profit.  You mentioned that your first year, you would be $5000 in the hole.  If the same kids come back the following year, and only having to spend about 33% of your normal expenses towards equipment replacement / maintenance, you could have as much as $30,000 in the bank every year thereafter.  I don't see how painting public fields, and adding a couple of bleachers willl eat up that much money.  I also don't see much money going into publicly owned fields.....especially with what the county has planned for the willows renovation anyway.  Is south county organized into a not for profit status (with an accountant, regular tax audit, and IRS oversight) or are we just believing that all the money will be reinvested.
> Pigskin does a lot of things....some wrong, and some right, but at least one could say that they put their money where the kids are.  The league subsidizes 15 - 20 kids registrations per year, Don himself sponsors a couple, and for all the abuse and hate mail that the man gets, few in the county realize that he has personally floated the league about $100,000 to keep it going over the years.  All this plus annual IRS non profit audits, and people say he isn't in it for the kids....
> Honestly guys - I appreciate what you are trying to do.  Competition is a great thing, and if you can get up and running, more power to you, but we all realize what is going on - you need the county to sponsor you in order to get Calvert and Charles to play you as clubs.  And the county's solution?  Somewhat like a dictatorship if you ask me - having a local government step in and destroy a 25 year old organization (which is still applauded on the county website mind you!) in the name of "fairness"?  I have yet to see a county organization or ANY government organization run any operation better than a private one - that may just be the libertarian in me.  You see, I sat in on the county meeting when this proposal came up - the county DID say that they wanted to budget $225,000 to start up this "new" county organization.  (They mentioned that this number was a "worst case" scenario, depending on whether or not Pigskin would genrously roll over and donate their equipment to the county!!!!!)
> So what is it?  Is the county going to spend our tax dollars to start up a league?  If they do, will the registration fees still be double what pigskin charges?  If the county doesn't sponsor the league, will the liability allow the club to play outside the county?  What happens when pigskin goes back to aligning itself with Pop Warner football?
> I believe that if you feel strongly enough about your team, about your kids, then work within the organization to fix things.  If you strike out on your own to increase competition, so be it - competition only makes things better.  But don't go getting the county to fight your battles for you.



Sir at anytime you can feel free to contact me with any concerns that you may have with Southern County Youth Football & Cheerleading Inc... As far as what the County is doing I have no control over that, and no one has asked the county to fight any battles for them.. So Please contact me with any of your concerns and if you have a problem with what the County is doing view my website and take the numbers off of there to contact the responsible people for the county. 

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com

301-862-4155


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## vindog

Look guys, this forum had turned into a love fest with all three of you congratulating each other and thanking one another about how wonderful and giving south county has been for "saving" football.  Quite honestly, I have reviewed your website, and I am not impressed.  Most all of your bylaws and documents read exactly like those in place for a couple of years in Pigskin.  Hey - I understand, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, something just doesn't smell right.
Call me a cynic, but I have to wonder what is going down?  Kids sports is a lot of work.  I applaud you on setting up your own league and generating competition.  Hell, last summer when the rumors of a new league were flying around, I was interested.  At the very least it would improve quality of service to the public.  But between the bashing of pigskin, the questionable finances, exorbitant prices, and county meddling, I have to say that your proposal just doesn't hold water.  I will briefly explain:
1.  Pigskin - you and your website have taken great pains to "contrast" yourself with pigskin.  Call it marketing, or whatever.  You "highlight" that you won't have people work concessions, conduct fundraisers, or do....really anything other than drop off their kids for babysitting.  If you are arguing that you will provide a better family atmosphere because you hold a couple of dances and bingo sessions, it seems a little weak.  True, working concessions can be a pain, but it also constitutes service, and I would hate to bash all the folks that donate their time to a cause in which they believe as not promoting a family atmosphere.
2. Finances - I still have yet to get a straight answer on how this will work.  Ok.  Assume the county has nothing to do with this.  Assume you get the 200 or so kids signed up you claim, AND they sign up for a second year.  After your equipment is paid for during the first season, you may only have to cover depreciation costs to the tune of about 30% of the first year.  Someone claimed the extra revenues "may or may not" be rolled back into the league for the following year.  What is it?  I hardly think a couple of painted field lines, and fixing up some bleachers will eat up all that cash.  You proudly proclaim that the field lines will be painted.  The county does this - is the league paying them?  What about electricity for the fields?  Is that figured into the bills?  If you are going to advertise your funding, you had better be ready for the scrutiny.  Unless Southern County...Inc is a not for profit / LLC / etc. I don't want to have anything to do with it.  Otherwise I am not sure that decisions about safety for my kids are being balanced against a profit margin.
3.  Prices - What can I say?  In my previous post I tried to make it clear.  South County is DOUBLE what is charged by pigskin.  Yeah, you can complain about having to call up the kid's grandparents and hitting up a couple of neighbors to get FIVE boxes of pizza's sold, but come on...  When Pigskin offers people the buyout to the fundraiser, hardly anyone takes it, because they figure that it is worth their time to sell a few boxes of pizza than to shell out the extra bucks.  And you are going to convince folks to spend MORE money????
4. The county.  Yes, I call it meddling, because you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you were telling the truth about not having the county step in and fight your battles for you, then why does your website applaud the county, or even mention the names / phone numbers on it?  Your last argument speaks for itself - "no one has asked the county to fight any battles for them...if you have a problem with what the county is doing view my website..."  I said it before, and I will spell it out here again - 
you need county sponsorship (as in a wholly owned county run league) in order to get enough teams together to play Calvert's and Charles's county teams.  It is an insurance and liability thing - one county run organization is NOT going play a NON county organization - the insurance companies would have a cow!  Therefore, you must HOPE that you can raise enough interest to get six whole "clubs" of 200 players apiece to join....by the end of the summer.....  All this, not to mention the fact that Parks and Rec in THEIR submission to the commissioners said that they needed $225,000 to start a league county wide.  All this seems just a little too neat - this "perfect storm" of a new league, and county interest doesn't "just happen".

Don't sit by the phone waiting for me to call you by the way - I have no desire to argue with you face to face - I am a county taxpayer, and if you are going to champion a county proposal in this public forum, and/or propose a county wide, private "solution" to counteract Pigskin Football, then you might as well defend your positions in public.


----------



## BigRed

vindog..  very well stated.

And on a side note, as a county gov't employee, I can see a lot of other areas where $225k could/should be better spent.


----------



## smilin

*Amazing and amusing provocation*

For a forum that started out talking about alternatives to what many people see as a messy situation growing worse, this is getting even more absurd. I for one don't have a connection to any league here. 
If you think the guy who proposed this league came up with the idea that he was out to "save" football by getting the county to take it over - start reading the threads on this site and other ones.
You might also be surprised to know that the county really doesn't like to do things without being pushed into it. This time it has been forced to look into it - by years of complaints, not just one proposal.


----------



## vindog

If it is a messy situation growing worse, why then do you not want to get involved in the league and help be part of the solution - why do we need to form a new league?  Or for that matter to spend our time ripping the current one?  I have read this forum's threads and others - what I see is a lot of folks eager to take potshots at the league's leadership without really knowing what is going on behind the scene.  For example, all of the folks so eager to say that Don Kemp is an ass, and on the take don't know that he has PERSONALLY donated $100,000 to Pigskin over the last few years to keep it afloat.  Regardless of their interpersonal skills, ya gotta respect that.
Years of complaints?  I have put in two requests to the county's public information office to supply me with all the formal complaints against pigskin from 2001 - 2005.  Guess how many I have received?  You got it - zero.  They either are "overwhelmed" by all the complaints and it would take them years to put together, or people for all the #####ing have been too busy to file formal complaints.
Finally, I think over the past few days, I have laid out my case and challenged the new leagues leadership to provide answers in a civilized and convincing way.  I have not resorted to name calling, and at every turn I have tried to provide facts as well as the logic behind my line of questioning.  To date, I think the responses have been "amusing and amazing".  An offer to speak off line, in a private forum with the league officials, and having someone question why I am asking questions in a forum dedicated to finding solutions to a messy situation.  
How about responding to my questions?  How am I causing problems by bringing facts and asking for a response?


----------



## vindog

Ok - Football helmet recertification by Riddell - Great for Revolution helmets, but even the revolution helmets are not certified in the first place unless properly fitted.  Besides Riddell, you have Bike helmets, Air, etc.  As for Riddell's signature certification, Pigskin has been doing that for years.  Besides, name me someone else in the county that holds a patent on helmet technology that the NFL still uses and consults with regularly, than Don Kemp.  Given the choice between someone from either the county, or your organization and Don to fit my son's helmet, I have to choose experience.
Besides - you make my point when it comes to money - you claim that you won't HAVE to spend as much money towards depreciation of equipment, because everything will be recertified.  Great!  Will you drop your registration prices in year two and beyond now that your expenses will be lower?  If not, where will the money go?
And, just to make the SAME point once again - if the county decides to go Commie on us and shut down an organization that has been around for quite some time (which I think the ACLU will have a problem with) what value added to they bring?  They will be commissioner of the sport, provide referees, and fields.  This will cost the taxpayers an additional $55,000 per year at least for the commissioner, maybe an additional $5,000 for the refs, and the same field maintenance that they provide now.  Oh - maybe an additional $1000, because the fields will be painted, right?  Residents of the county will then be assigned to clubs in their region, following your model I suppose, which will cost double what pigskin now charges, because they are SOOOO horrible to require their players to sell five pizzas.
So, a budget increase of about $60,000 per year (at LEAST) lower standards across the county because each club will be in charge of it's own equipment, etc. rather than having one league administration, and radically altering all the rules and organization in the space of five months, OR holding parks and rec's feet to the fire, forcing them to do their job and work with the existing league (to the minor expense of having them attend the meetings in which they hold a voting position)......as a tax payer, sounds like a no brainer to me.
By the way, I did attend the public meeting of the County Commissioners, where the Parks and Rec presentation was weak to say the least - when even the most invasive and big government of the commissioners can ask the board of parks and rec whether or not they have even held a meeting with pigskin's board to hear their side of the incident and to see them flounder like a fish out of water, it speaks volumes to what is going on.....the Parks and Rec folks came up with an idea, took action without any research or meetings with both parties, and slapped together a poor proposal.  
And I am sorry to say that anytime government steps in, tells an operating organization / business / or even individual within the community that they have decided to take over something in the name of safety, community relations, or because they have a "better idea", and that the citizens will no longer be allowed to participate in the way they wish, that is not democracy - that is Fascism, Communism, Socialism, and is diametrically opposed to the freedoms on which this country was built.


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## mainman

I am interested in putting my child in football this year but damn if I can make heads or tails out of anything posted in this cluster#### of a thread....


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## Msd_plumbing

Your supporters for the new football league keep saying at each meeting that there should be two football leagues, so everyone can have a choose. But from what I heard at all of these meetings is there will be one football organization if the county does get approved to be involved.  So there goes your choose.  Have you failed to tell them that?  Because they keep saying it at every meeting.  

If all of the other County football organizations are so wonderful, then how come every year just on my team we get 5 or more from other Counties?

I want to make it known why Calvert County said they would not play you if Parks and Rec was not involved.  It is not because of Pigskin Football it is because of the  OSPREYS.

At your meeting the ones from Pigskin Football that showed up, were not there to support you, but to make sure that the county does not take over football.  What is going to happen 2-5 yrs from now if this falls apart?  Are our kids going to be stuck not playing football?  How can you try to take a league out that has been successfull for 25 + yrs?


----------



## vindog

mainman said:
			
		

> I am interested in putting my child in football this year but damn if I can make heads or tails out of anything posted in this cluster#### of a thread....



I know what you mean Mainman.  According to those that started this idea, this has been going since August.  That means that all the while we were working to make pigskin better, there were those amongst us collecting information, and building "alliances" - like the Survivor show - to spring this on us once the season ended.  My main frustration with this has always been that it is underhanded - if you want to start a new league, do it.  Begin a year out, advertise, and put the word out.  Co-opting the county to help you out however is disingenuous.
I would just ask that you have some faith, and research both options.  If you check out www.stmaryspigskinfootball.com, you will see that the board is considering joining Pop Warner football - a national organization where the winning teams could even go to national championships in Orlando.  I like the private sector solution, instead of the heavy handed county administrated option myself!


----------



## Christy

mainman said:
			
		

> I am interested in putting my child in football this year but damn if I can make heads or tails out of anything posted in this cluster#### of a thread....


  MM, my son thoroughly enjoyed playing in the pigskin league.  we never had any issues, but we were also very lucky with who our coaches were every year.  The parents for our team(s) were alright as well.  We were one of the Northern Teams.  Most of the problems I ever encountered at games were from the Southern Teams. :shrug:


----------



## Christy

vindog said:
			
		

> I know what you mean Mainman. According to those that started this idea, this has been going since August. That means that all the while we were working to make pigskin better, there were those amongst us collecting information, and building "alliances" - like the Survivor show - to spring this on us once the season ended. My main frustration with this has always been that it is underhanded - if you want to start a new league, do it. Begin a year out, advertise, and put the word out. Co-opting the county to help you out however is disingenuous.
> I would just ask that you have some faith, and research both options. If you check out www.stmaryspigskinfootball.com, you will see that the board is considering joining Pop Warner football - a national organization where the winning teams could even go to national championships in Orlando. I like the private sector solution, instead of the heavy handed county administrated option myself!


I don't see why creating a new league is such a huge deal.   It's all about options really.  :shrug:


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## slotted

Christy said:
			
		

> MM, my son thoroughly enjoyed playing in the pigskin league.  we never had any issues, but we were also very lucky with who our coaches were every year.  The parents for our team(s) were alright as well.  We were one of the Northern Teams.  Most of the problems I ever encountered at games were from the Southern Teams. :shrug:


Never had a problem with any of my three years with a southern team. :shrug:


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## vindog

I agree Christy - options are great.  As in true options - pigskin, or Southern County.  But when ST MARY'S COUNTY steps in and tells pigskin that they will not be allowed to play on county leagues anymore, and that they have to disband into the "county approved clubs" organization, that is not a choice.
The head of Parks and Recreation ACTUALLY SAID that the county could support starting up this club option, but it would need $225,000 at the worst to buy equipment.  Why did he say the worst case would be $225K?  BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY WAS HOPING THAT PIGSKIN WOULD DONATE ALL OF ITS EQUIPMENT TO THE COUNTY AFTER BEING SHUTDOWN!!!!!
If the county option is SOOOO wonderful, how in the heck could we get a County administrator thinking (????) that an organization recently told it couldn't exist to donate equipment.
This is the fallacy of Southern County.  AT BEST if they don't get county support, they will only be able to play other Southern County clubs - imagine playing the same team over and over and over......  They claim that they will be able to play against calvert and charles county - this will only happen unless St Mary's County Commissioners sanction Southern County's organization as the "official" football league, or the first of a "football club" system.  This option would effectively end the existence of pigskin, unless they could buy land and build their own fields.

The "options" discussed here are not options - all or nothing.  Kill one organization in favor of an untested new one, or work within the current system to make things better.


----------



## GhostWriter

I have to agree with Vindog, I moved to St Mary's County from PG County 2 years ago.  I grow up in a county run football organization which could have cared less about the kids, the equipment was in poor condition (safety was the last concern).  Having the county getting involved in the football program will make the parents put out more money for registration and make the football experience worse and like Vindog said once the money gets tight, the county will get rid of that $55,000 job or charge it to the taxpayers of St Mary's County, then were will the football program be.  Yes, South County did ask for the county support because the surrounding counties will not play their organization due to the surrounding counties experience with the OSPREYS, which the county was involved in.

No one has a problem with a new league starting, go for it.  But now that you've brought the county into this to try to eliminate a program of 25+ years, that has been a great experience for atleast 98% of the kids that got involved with Pigskin.  I have a serious problem with that......

Pigskin is thinking about re-establishing their affiliation with the National Organization Popwarner.  Which will required Pigskin to submit a full 2006 schedule that will be published on their website, no more guessing where and when you will be playing.  This affiliation will also mean that the stardards that this organization will have to follow will well exceed the proposal by the county for raising community awareness.  The county has now idea what the Pigskin organization currently does to even have the facts to bring this proposal to the table, the county asked the comminssioners to approve a raising the community awareness program for the football program and Pigskin has been exceeding these stadards for years.

The taxpayers of St. Mary's County really need to contact these county representives before they start wasting tax money on something like this.  If the new leagues wants to start, please do, but leave the county out of it.  I already pay enough taxes in this county!!!!!!!!


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## big_poppa

Slow your role people, my my my.  I think everyone has gotten their ideas mixed up, and you are trying to figure out what was truly meant to come of all this.  Chris originally (prior to the county ever being involved) had Calvert interested in playing his league.  This is a FACT, look at the early posts.  It was after this that the County (Mr Shepard) stepped in and said, hey I think we could take this over with the Commissioners approval.  I personally think it would be a great thing for the county to run this.  I mean I just want my sons to come first no matter what.  Some of you on here bickering back and forth must be some of the same parents that were involved in the fights at the pigskin games.  That is how you are acting.  I am a very young parent myself, and played football my entire life, both for pigskin, and then into high school.  I opted out of playing in college to pursue a career in the USMC.  However things have come full circle and here I am with my oldest boy ready to play football, and this is what I have to look forward to!!!!!  Chris is on the right track with this, I do not feel he is trying to take money from anyone for himself.  He just wants to put his children into a program in which they will come first.  That is all I want too.  And hopefully, just hopefully, that is what matters most to you as well.  Just my two cents.


----------



## Christy

slotted said:
			
		

> Never had a problem with any of my three years with a southern team. :shrug:


The coach of one of the Southern Teams was frequently removed from the game due to his tirades and physical threats to parents and other coaches.   Sorry, I'm a Northern Team snob.


----------



## mainman

Holy ####, I think you all played without helmets as kids....

I will more than likely join a southern league, I am in california....


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## Christy

vindog said:
			
		

> I agree Christy - options are great. As in true options - pigskin, or Southern County. But when ST MARY'S COUNTY steps in and tells pigskin that they will not be allowed to play on county leagues anymore, and that they have to disband into the "county approved clubs" organization, that is not a choice.


Good point.  I'd never thought of that.  I don't think St. Mary's Pigskin should ever be disbanded.  It's the last bastion of hope for little boys being able to spend some quality time in an unPC environment and become men.  

But like I said previously, I never had a bad experience with St. Mary's Pigskin league.  Friends of mine have, and have had legitimate bad experiences with coaches and the league in general.  Tough call. :shrug:


----------



## vindog

Poppa, I think that you are missing the point.  Like I posted earlier - I am sure that Chris had interest from other counties to play, but interest isn't a committment.  Suppose you lived in Calvert, and your boy played for the county sponsored team.  Would you feel comfortable playing against a team from St. Mary's NOT sponsored by the county?  For starters, I think the insurance companies supporting Calvert would have a #$% - Fit.  It would be virtually impossible for a non county team to play a county team, because of the liability issue.
I am somewhat willing to believe that the county decided to start this league idea themselves.  What I am opposed to on that count is that the county never contacted pigskin to hear their side of the story - they looked at SOME videotape - supplied by the complaintants, and they heard from those "wronged" by the league.  At no point did they ever undertake an honest investigation, nor even try to contact pigskin's board to get their input, or hear their side.  Then, with a flick of the wrist....POOF... the county magically comes up with this "club football" concept, Arthur Radford appears at a south county meeting, and now they are claiming that next week, the deal will be done.  Dammit, if someone is gonna railroad an organization to which I have dedicated my personal time, I am not going to roll over without a fight.
And to your other point about casting a blanket accusation that because there are a few of us out there who won't just read these posts without asking questions, must be "the same parents that were involved in the fights at the pigskin games", you had better be careful how you throw about accusations.  Since when is asking a question and demanding a straight answer causing problems?  I have brought up a NUMBER of issues in this forum, and still have YET to get a straight answer, other than requesting that I call them directly, so they don't have to continue a discussion on the facts in public.
I respect your service, as I am AD Navy myself, but don't just assume that when we ask questions, we are causing problems.


----------



## vindog

mainman said:
			
		

> Holy ####, I think you all played without helmets as kids....
> 
> I will more than likely join a southern league, I am in california....



More power to you MM.  I just hope that the county will allow us the choice.  And by choice, I mean Pigskin, or South County, not which club within South County's organization we want to join, because the County decided to shut down all football not "blessed" by the Politburo....oops, I mean county parks and rec committee....(lol, sorry, I couldn't resist!)


----------



## GhostWriter

big_poppa said:
			
		

> Slow your role people, my my my.  I think everyone has gotten their ideas mixed up, and you are trying to figure out what was truly meant to come of all this.  Chris originally (prior to the county ever being involved) had Calvert interested in playing his league.  This is a FACT, look at the early posts.  It was after this that the County (Mr Shepard) stepped in and said, hey I think we could take this over with the Commissioners approval.  I personally think it would be a great thing for the county to run this.  I mean I just want my sons to come first no matter what.  Some of you on here bickering back and forth must be some of the same parents that were involved in the fights at the pigskin games.  That is how you are acting.  I am a very young parent myself, and played football my entire life, both for pigskin, and then into high school.  I opted out of playing in college to pursue a career in the USMC.  However things have come full circle and here I am with my oldest boy ready to play football, and this is what I have to look forward to!!!!!  Chris is on the right track with this, I do not feel he is trying to take money from anyone for himself.  He just wants to put his children into a program in which they will come first.  That is all I want too.  And hopefully, just hopefully, that is what matters most to you as well.  Just my two cents.



Big_Poppa, The fact is that Calvert would not play South County unless they fixed an issue that the OSPREYS left or become affiliated with the County.  Calvert had no intentions of playing the new league without the above being complete.


----------



## big_poppa

Hey Vin I guess my post was more so out of frustration because it seems like everyone agrees that something needs to happen, someone is trying to make things happen, and is getting punished for it.  I have tried for the past two years to coach in the pigskin league, and have never had phone calls returned etc....  II still to this day keep in contact with one of my first football coaches (the other passed away last year, if you coached pigskin long enough I am sure you know who I am talking about).  In other words I love the game, and it breaks my heart to see and hear kids and parents talk about how bad things have gotten with the league.  I guess in my own little world, a new league would be a fresh start.  There will be problems no matter what  happens, one thing I can say for certain though, come august I hope my son has the best opportunity to play the game, wherever that is.  I guess in the end I am just standing up for Chris, for him standing up for our children.  No offense to you or anyone else associated with pigskin, I was simply talking about the instance with the fight last year.  We can't have that stuff man, not in front of our kids.  Best of luck to all of those involved, and hopefully what is best for our kids is what will prevail.


----------



## GhostWriter

youthfootball said:
			
		

> I have told each of you to call me if you had any questions that had to do with Southern County Youth Football Inc. I have nothing to do with  what St. Mary's Parks and Rec. does. I will explain what has taken place up to this date.. I went to St. Mary's Parks & Rec. back in Oct. 2005 to ask them for playing fields so I could have the chance to start another league. I did not at anytime bash Pigskin Football or ask the county to get involved. Parks and Rec. at that time told me they would give me an answer in Jan. 2006... In the meantime I was working with Calvert in trying to form 3 clubs in St. Mary's County and have them play in the Calvert County League. We were going to play in Calvert and also on St. Mary's fields. I knew when I requested fields I would have to take whatever fields that Pigskin did not use. I had no problem with that. I called St. Mary's Parks & Rec. the first week of Jan. and I was told that they now would let me know about having a field or two in May. I didn't know why we had to wait that long until I started talking to Calvert about things and they told me that St. MAry's Parks and Rec. has started requesting info. on how there league was ran. I then started thinking oh now I know why I have to wait till may because they must be wanting to take the League over. I then had a meeting with Parks and Rec.,2 comissioners, and the County advisor. I was as shocked as everyone else when I was told in this meeting that the County was thinking about taking Youth Football over. All I ever wanted was to be able to inner league with the Calvert Football program. I never asked for Pigskin to be done away with or the County to be involved. Once St. Mary's talked about taking over Youth Football Calvert then told me that they wanted to wait to see if Parks and Rec. would be taking over football.. So I agree I do need the county to back me in playing in Calvert that is all I ever wanted. So if anyone can talk the County into letting me get 3 clubs together and taking them to Calvert then be my guest, but before everyone starts saying I got the County involved you need to know the facts I never asked the County for anything. I agree with everyone on here you do not need to hire someone to run Youth Football even if the County takes Youth Football over, you also do not need 225,000 to run Youth Football. I am on everyones side when it comes to that. I am just a father who wanted to give people the option to join a new league or stay with Pigskin. I have never bashed Pigskin Football to the County or anyone else. I also have never asked the County for any money, equipment, or anything else. I do support the County in taking over youth Football so maybe oneday we can inner league with other counties. The numbers on my website can be called no matter if you support the County or not. Tell them your views and opinion. I am willing to work with anyone or any program to make Youth Football an enjoyable one for our kids. The Kids are what are important here no matter what. So please feel free to contact me at anytime. 301-862-4155
> 
> www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com



Chris, the fact that you back the county on taking over football means that you atleast back them getting the $55,000 position.  The fact that they can not even handle coming to a once a month board meeting for the last 18 years would mean that one of the current positions in Parks and Recs would have to administrator football, there's no way that will happen without football going down the drain.  So, it's OK to have two leagues, but only have one set of rules administrator by a county representative that has no idea or experience in running a football league.  For instance there are popwarner teams in Charles, PG and I think also in Calvert, if Pigskin becomes affiliated with popwarner, then the county comes in with thier rules, it again eliminates Pigskin from playing under popwarner rules.  The county needs to back off and let the leagues run independently, South County has it's rules and Pigskin has it's rules, that how you make every child in St. Mary's County happy, this is options.  The county takes over is their way or no way!!!!!


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## vindog

big_poppa said:
			
		

> Hey Vin I guess my post was more so out of frustration because it seems like everyone agrees that something needs to happen, someone is trying to make things happen, and is getting punished for it.  I have tried for the past two years to coach in the pigskin league, and have never had phone calls returned etc... There will be problems no matter what  happens, one thing I can say for certain though, come august I hope my son has the best opportunity to play the game, wherever that is.  I guess in the end I am just standing up for Chris, for him standing up for our children.  No offense to you or anyone else associated with pigskin, I was simply talking about the instance with the fight last year.  We can't have that stuff man, not in front of our kids.  Best of luck to all of those involved, and hopefully what is best for our kids is what will prevail.



Poppa - I understand your frustration.  I moved here a few years ago and was as frustrated with the league as you.  The next year, I volunteered on signup to be an assistant coach.  Then the head coach quit, and I got told to show up to a meeting.  Last year, I was a full time head coach.  What I HAVE  found out about the league, is that those who stand off to the side and wait for instructions are passed by.  I never called and asked to coach.  I never waited for someone to tell me what to do.  I was dumb enough to walk right in, start asking questions and participating at the coaches meetings.  Once you fill out the coaches application, you will be plugged into their phone list, get your background check complete, and NYSCA certification, then you are off.  
This is actually one of the things I am hoping to take on this year - making the process for getting volunteers and new coaches more easy - including training, etc.  You see, I am not blindly defending pigskin - I think that there are things with the organization that need to be changed, but I refuse to cast aside 25 years of an organizations existence just because I think I have a better idea.


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## vindog

youthfootball said:
			
		

> I have told each of you to call me if you had any questions that had to do with Southern County Youth Football Inc. I have nothing to do with  what St. Mary's Parks and Rec. does.....
> So I agree I do need the county to back me in playing in Calvert that is all I ever wanted. So if anyone can talk the County into letting me get 3 clubs together and taking them to Calvert then be my guest, but before everyone starts saying I got the County involved you need to know the facts I never asked the County for anything....
> I also have never asked the County for any money, equipment, or anything else. I do support the County in taking over youth Football so maybe oneday we can inner league with other counties...
> www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com



Chris, I appreciate your honesty and I can see that you were caught off guard as well.  My personal policy is to take every man at his word....once.  Then, if I am duped, you will never earn my trust again, so consider this a bit of a peace offering - I will take you at your word about the county.  I still don't want to call you, because if you are advertising a product in a public forum, I feel that you should be able to defend it.  My previous questions remain:

1. Your main "selling points" seem to be that you will post a schedule at the beginning of the year, parents will not have to work concessions, and there will be no Pizza fundraisers, just a few basket bingo things, or a dance or two.  Is that it?  You claim that you will have a better family atmospher, but how can you guarantee that - the league is only as good as it's particpants and abilty to enforce rules.  While not perfect, I would argue that Pigskin has more experience.  As for working concessions, my previous point stands - True, working concessions can be a pain, but it also constitutes service, and I would hate to bash all the folks that donate their time to a cause in which they believe as not promoting a family atmosphere.
2. Finances - Assume the county has nothing to do with this. Assume you get the 200 or so kids signed up you claim, AND they sign up for a second year. After your equipment is paid for during the first season, you may only have to cover depreciation costs to the tune of about 30% of the first year. You have made the claim that by using exclusive Riddell equipment, that can be recertified, you will keep costs low.  Point A - using only Riddell equipment is not necessarily cost effective - government contracts are required to have some competition, if your goal is to keep costs down, using only one equipment supplier is not doing that.  Point B - Even if this DOES keep costs down, will you be lowering registration costs in year two and beyond?  What is going to happen to all the registration money in year two if you aren't spending it on equipment.  Simple math says that if you aren't spending money on equipment, you will have a revenue per year of about $15,000, assuming that you will have 200 kids in your league.  I hardly think a couple of painted field lines, and fixing up some bleachers will eat up all that cash.  You keep mentioning that you are Southern County, INC.  I would like to see you post on your website that you are clearly a not for profit organization that meets federal guidelines, before I invest any money.  I think generally, parents want some assurance that safety will not be balanced against a profit margin.
3. Prices - What can I say? In my previous post I tried to make it clear. South County is DOUBLE what is charged by pigskin. Yeah, you can complain about having to call up the kid's grandparents and hitting up a couple of neighbors to get FIVE boxes of pizza's sold, but come on... When Pigskin offers people the buyout to the fundraiser, hardly anyone takes it, because they figure that it is worth their time to sell a few boxes of pizza than to shell out the extra bucks. And you are going to convince folks to spend MORE money????

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but honestly if you never intended to get the county involved, then it sounds that you were duped by Calvert county into thinking they would let you play under their organization without St. Mary's county's sanction.  The only fair thing that I can say is that you either consider starting up a new league with the understanding that you have to form enough teams to play amongst yourselves, without Inter-county play (because the insurance companies will never allow it), or consider bringing your ideas back into pigskin as we look to re-join pop warner.  You have energy, enthusiasm, and drive, why not work within the current system to improve it, rather than fighting to tear it down?


----------



## Msd_plumbing

big_poppa said:
			
		

> Hey Vin I guess my post was more so out of frustration because it seems like everyone agrees that something needs to happen, someone is trying to make things happen, and is getting punished for it.  I have tried for the past two years to coach in the pigskin league, and have never had phone calls returned etc....  II still to this day keep in contact with one of my first football coaches (the other passed away last year, if you coached pigskin long enough I am sure you know who I am talking about).  In other words I love the game, and it breaks my heart to see and hear kids and parents talk about how bad things have gotten with the league.  I guess in my own little world, a new league would be a fresh start.  There will be problems no matter what  happens, one thing I can say for certain though, come august I hope my son has the best opportunity to play the game, wherever that is.  I guess in the end I am just standing up for Chris, for him standing up for our children.  No offense to you or anyone else associated with pigskin, I was simply talking about the instance with the fight last year.  We can't have that stuff man, not in front of our kids.  Best of luck to all of those involved, and hopefully what is best for our kids is what will prevail.




The incident that happened in November was caused by a South team.  I know this because I have watched the video of that game a lot.  Even twice today, and also I was at the game. Now the coach of that team is one of the supporters for this new league.  So problem solved he is banned and cannot coach Pigskin Football.  The information in the Enterprise was false.  I showed the man from the enterprise the video of the game today, and he told me the video he saw back in November was of a different game. They showed him the wrong video, Why? Because they knew they were in the wrong.


----------



## vindog

Yanno? I think that we are getting to the raw pink nasty underbelly of this whole thing.  This "in it for the kids" has little to do with the kids actually - don't get me wrong, and flood this with a bunch of "I am in it for the kids, whaddaya talking about" posts!  Let me unequivocally state that I am not questioning the good intentions of those that want to start a new league.  It's just interesting how the Raiders / Cowboys game, and all the subsequent "support" posters quickly degenerate into North vs. South.  
First, let me state some facts - You will find every "unlimited" team is a hodgepodge of community backgrounds.  This is because pigskin made a deal with the highschools (yeah, they set this up explicitly) that they would host an unlimited weight middle school team at all three regions with the express understanding that they would "feed" the freshmen teams.  This was only undertaken with the promise of all the high school coaches that the freshmen teams would not be dismantled and raided, should the JV teams fall on their faces.  So to your argument that they are "branded", I have to disagree - they played on any team they could get.  The Central team almost had to disband because they had too few players.
Point 2 - as to their unsupervised practice, you need to learn the truth before you go out spreading disinformation and fallacies.  My son practiced three times a week within 100 yards of where the Unlimited Raiders practiced for many months.  I saw coaches from all four teams in the immediate vicinity interacting with them and their coach.  To say they were "unsupervised" in their practice is ridiculous.  I happen to know of at least two board members that spoke with their coach AT THEIR PRACTICE on a weekly basis.  There was no way the Raiders were unsupervised.
Point 3 - at the very beginning of the season, it was made perfectly clear, that formation of an Unlimited Middle School league would be difficult, and potentially dangerous - you had kids of all skill level, and weights ranging from 150 pounds to some truly fully grown men topping off over six foot tall and 250 pounds.  The board decided that because the schedule wouldn't allow playing games until after dark, that they would only play at THE BEST FIELD IN THE LEAGUE, UNDER THE BEST CONDITIONS, WITH AS MANY REFEREES AND THE BEST REFEREES THAT THEY COULD FIND.  I have seen quite a few games at Willows, as it is our home field - I have seen referees be late, not show up, or see games take place under less than ideal situations.  Given the choice between Willows and Lettie Dent, I would choose Dent every time.  Besides that, their "unsupervised" coach told me personally on at least two occasions that every player understood that the games would be up at Dent all season.  NOW, you are gonna complain about that?

Back to my ORIGINAL point (sorry, I get sidetracked).  It seems that there is less of an issue with how the pigskin league is administered (whatever your opinion may be), there is a perceived difference between the north and south.  Northern team snobs view the south as a bunch of unruly fight starters, and the Southern team victims believe that no matter what, the league will take steps to make sure they lose every game and will always be at a disadvantage.  Guess what?  Starting a new league will NOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM!!!!
If anything, one could argue that we have a hell of a lot of coaches who played football as kids, coach now, and are a wee bit scared of Don Kemp.  They will kiss ass in public, and stab him in the back in private, trying to garner favors or better support for their team.  I feel strongly that the main problem with Pigskin IS NOT Don Kemp - it is a whole hell of a lot of people too stubborn or lazy to step up and run the show as it should be - with a north, central, and southern chain of command.  We are looking for responsible, mature, adults to step up and take charge of the issues in their area, not just stand back and complain that things aren't fair....or worse still, take their ball and leave to try and start a new league..


----------



## vindog

So in other words, you agree with all three points?  The teams were all a hodgepodge of locations, they were supervised, (not unsupervised as you had claimed), and while the league had run high school teams in the past, playing all over, they learned from the past and tried to restrict any of the variables which would cause problems.  
You are right - I forgot that they were the broncos, because I had always referred to them as the South Middle School team.


----------



## vindog

thrasher said:
			
		

> point 99, they were the Broncos not the Raiders, there was no Raider middle school team in '05. in '04 they had a raider high scool team
> point 100, you were with in 10 yards of there practice
> point 101, you sure do carry on with your remarks that say the same the thing WE ALL get the point.
> point 102, the league ran with high school teams for along time with-out having every game at the same location.




Besides that Dave, if the league would answer in this forum, the questions which I am asking, then maybe I would back down a bit.  Until then, I will continue to correct the misinformation campaign going on here, and continue to challenge those that don't really know what is going on and demand that they defend their assertions without doing a "drive by" posting.


----------



## Msd_plumbing

thrasher said:
			
		

> The kids on the team you keep referring to as a South Team were from areas like Lexington Park, Leonardtown and California. They only practiced in Lexington Park unsupervised and all the games from day one were played under the supervision of the North board members in the north only. They were marked from the start with no chance of any kind of respect. Even in the past the High school teams from the South got that respect. What is done with that is done let the kids have piece. I think you have made them suffer enough. Stop stereo typing the kids. Thank you, please!!!



Nobody is stereo typing these kids.  They were the team in the South.  Had it been a team in the North I would of said a North team.  You know you talk about respect,  I went to almost all of their games.  I liked watching the bigger boys play, but when you go to game after game, and the kids are getting thrown out, it gets to be a problem.  Were you there?  Did you see it?  What about the Blue Knights game?  The coach of that team took his kids and left at halftime, and the Blue Knights were winning.


----------



## slotted

vindog said:
			
		

> Besides that Dave, if the league would answer in this forum, the questions which I am asking, then maybe I would back down a bit.  Until then, I will continue to correct the misinformation campaign going on here, and continue to challenge those that don't really know what is going on and demand that they defend their assertions without doing a "drive by" posting.


You are insinuating that thrasher is Dave (who?)


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## SouthCountyMom

I have a few questions for anyone who is willing to answer them......
1. Did Mr. Kemp step down like he said on the radio?

2. Why are some of you upset about the county taking over? Is it the $ I hardly believe the taxes are going to go up that much "IF" they hire somone one at $55,000. Even though I don't think thats necessary.

3. Where is the $ for pigskin going??????? They have been around for 25 years. If you charge say $81 & theres 1,000 kids the math is $81,000...Where is the money going to (sure not to those poor cheerleaders wearing t-shirts), since Mr. Kemp had to donate $100,00 in the past few yea

4. Why has it been 25 years and now their trying to get Pop-Warner? Is that their way of oh crapt we better try something new??

5. It states on their web site... Providing St. Marys County one of the finest football/cheer programs in the county... Aren't they the only program??? So wouldn't that consider them the finest and the worst????


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## SouthCountyMom

HELLO.....So quick to ask, but not so quick to answer...............
Hands up to the parties involved in starting a new league. I f anything you've got the counties attention all around. If you do get to start a league my kids will be joining!!!! I love the fact that you're willing to back the county. It shows me your attentions are for the familes in the county , not just for yourself. I thought I heard or read somwhere that pigskin is not backing the county. Why??? Didn't they offer you a part of it??? I know some claim it's the$$$. I do believe that the county did not say that parks & rec is going to get that amount or the extra employee. I hope the county becomes a part of the football program. So at least I know if theres something I don't agree with, there will be a ladder that I can go through.


----------



## GhostWriter

SouthCountyMom said:
			
		

> I have a few questions for anyone who is willing to answer them......
> 1. Did Mr. Kemp step down like he said on the radio?
> 
> 2. Why are some of you upset about the county taking over? Is it the $ I hardly believe the taxes are going to go up that much "IF" they hire somone one at $55,000. Even though I don't think thats necessary.
> 
> 3. Where is the $ for pigskin going??????? They have been around for 25 years. If you charge say $81 & theres 1,000 kids the math is $81,000...Where is the money going to (sure not to those poor cheerleaders wearing t-shirts), since Mr. Kemp had to donate $100,00 in the past few yea
> 
> 4. Why has it been 25 years and now their trying to get Pop-Warner? Is that their way of oh crapt we better try something new??
> 
> 5. It states on their web site... Providing St. Marys County one of the finest football/cheer programs in the county... Aren't they the only program??? So wouldn't that consider them the finest and the worst????



We have now problem answering questions and answering them direct.

1.  Don stated that if the county believes that he is the cause of every little problem that exists in the league that he would step down as the president of the league.  He is re-elected president of the league by the executive board every year because of his hard work and dedication to the kids of St. Mary's County, he does not appoint himself to the board.  The county has held a seat on the board for 25 years and they have not been to a board meeting a voted in over 18 years.  The county has always had the opportunity to take part in every board meeting and to vote on every aspect of this league, but they take no interest.

2.  We are upset because the county taking over is not the best choice for the kids of st mary's county to have an option to choose between two leagues, the future of football, the quality of the program, etc.  The money is of great concern when the money can be used for something more useful.  Park and Rec is also asking for an additional $250,000 which is ludicous, that will make taxpayers of this county very upset including myself.
For you to say that the county should take over, but the position is not needed, if they can not attend a once a month board meeting because they claim they don't have the resources, how are they going to administrator a football program without adding to their resources ie staff members?????

3.  I don't keep the books nor have I seen them, but anyone with common sense knows that running a league of 900+ kids at 81,000 a year is a negative income position, field maintenance, trophies only at $15.00 X 900 = $13,500, replacing equipment, footballs, kids that can't afford to pay, the list goes on and on from the expense side.

4.  Pigskin was affiliated with popwarner 4 years ago for several years, the only reason that this league left popwarner was because popwarner did not allow 5 and 6 year old kids to play tackle football.  Last year popwarner decided after saying they would never let 5 and 6 yr old kids to play tackle football, used the model setup by pigskin to pilot this last year.  Popwarner contacted pigskin and asked pigskin to rejoin the program if their pilot was successful, it was and pigskin is considering rejoining popwarner.  This was in the plans before any talk of a new league or the incident that occured last year.  If you check our current rules compared to the popwarner rules they are exactly the same.

5.  It states on the website http://www.stmaryspigskinfootball.com, Providing St. Marys County one of the finest football/cheer programs in the COUNTRY not county, we invited South County to start a new league, more power to you.

As an organization with county involved or not, we are going forward as an independent organization.  We will not join the county or it's administration, the county has to administrator all sports in the county or leave football as is.


----------



## GhostWriter

SouthCountyMom said:
			
		

> HELLO.....So quick to ask, but not so quick to answer...............
> Hands up to the parties involved in starting a new league. I f anything you've got the counties attention all around. If you do get to start a league my kids will be joining!!!! I love the fact that you're willing to back the county. It shows me your attentions are for the familes in the county , not just for yourself. I thought I heard or read somwhere that pigskin is not backing the county. Why??? Didn't they offer you a part of it??? I know some claim it's the$$$. I do believe that the county did not say that parks & rec is going to get that amount or the extra employee. I hope the county becomes a part of the football program. So at least I know if theres something I don't agree with, there will be a ladder that I can go through.




Like I said in my reply, we have no problems answering questions, Vindog has asked some very basic questions to the new league without any reponse to his questions.

The county used the OSPREYS has a model league that the county would pursue, when that league got into debt for equipment loans the county backed completely away.  The county is not the answer to a better football program, improving what's in place along with having the option of joining a different program will improve the overall football program in this county.  The county will not be willing to do any hardwork to make this program as good as independently runned organization will do, we all know what type of work government puts out......  There's ladder in our organization that starts with the coaches to the vice-president of the area, to the executive board for resolution.  The county like I said has a seat on the executive board which for 18 years has chosen to not use, because they claim they don't have the resouces, it's more like they stopped giving them overtime because there was no money in the budget for it, but now they have $300,000 to go towards this effort.


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## SouthCountyMom

I do agree the county should be at the board meetings. However they weren't. Now its a new season. I hope they get more involved. wether it's themselves starting a new league, pigskin keeping theres going, and or the new league. I can't see the county agreeing with the $$$$ the parc & rec is asking for. The county isn't that stupid. We all seen the #'s being thrown around. I think we need to focus on whats important...the KIDS!!!! I want my boys to be able to play football. I keep hearing how Calvert & Charles are county football leagues. If that's true and it works, why can't our county do the same???? What is the big deal?????$$$$$$ has anyone spoke to the surrounding counties to see how much the county has to put in it each year???? are the citizens in those county complaining??? Bottom line as I said in the past I want a choice for my boys!!!! Thank god after all these years it might happen!!!! Has anyone heard anything more?? Good luck to all thats involved. This is a mess and I feel the county is the only one that can clean it up. Others may think different. Will see. 
P.S. LETS NOT FORGET.......IT'S ALL ABOUT THE KIDS!!!!!


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## SouthCountyMom

Oh, sorry about the best in the COUNTY~COUNTRY thing. WOW, I didn't realize my boys were playing with one of the finest in the country. I guess if I want my kids to keep playing football I may want to move to Canada. HAHA!! Joking aside I really hope for some changes!!!!


----------



## GhostWriter

SouthCountyMom said:
			
		

> Oh, sorry about the best in the COUNTY~COUNTRY thing. WOW, I didn't realize my boys were playing with one of the finest in the country. I guess if I want my kids to keep playing football I may want to move to Canada. HAHA!! Joking aside I really hope for some changes!!!!



Good one!!!!!!  HAHA, we are all hoping for change/improvement, as a board member to Pigskin I'm very dedicated to improving the overall football program.


----------



## SouthCountyMom

GhostWriter said:
			
		

> Good one!!!!!!  HAHA, we are all hoping for change/improvement, as a board member to Pigskin I'm very dedicated to improving the overall football program.[/
> 
> Are the board members the same as years past? If so why has nothing change. If not, who votes them in? Does pigskin post their board members on their sight? If so, GREAT. If not why? Does the county still have a seat on the board? No ofense again, but I hope there will be choices besides just pigskin!!!


----------



## GhostWriter

SouthCountyMom       

Are the board members the same as years past? If so why has nothing change. If not said:
			
		

> No, there are members from past years and new members.  We are all dedicated to improving the football program.  Yes, the pigskin executive board will be posted on the website.  Yes, the county still has a seat on the board.  No offense taken, we want people of this county to have a choice, we are just against the county controlling/administering the football program, for example are wieghts and age division are proven safe over years of use.  The other counties, including st mary's county's proposal will be for step weights, which always for a wide range of kids that vary in weight to play together, in my opionion these are unsafe weight ranges.


----------



## vindog

SouthCountyMom said:
			
		

> GhostWriter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good one!!!!!!  HAHA, we are all hoping for change/improvement, as a board member to Pigskin I'm very dedicated to improving the overall football program.[/
> 
> Are the board members the same as years past? If so why has nothing change. If not, who votes them in? Does pigskin post their board members on their sight? If so, GREAT. If not why? Does the county still have a seat on the board? No ofense again, but I hope there will be choices besides just pigskin!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We all appreciate where you are coming from - as a matter of fact, we feel the same - Choice would be great.  Pigskin has never complained about having competition.  Our issue comes with the forced destruction of the Pigskin league.  If there is a way that Southern County could form and co-exist with pigskin, then I for one am all for it.  Once again, the problem comes with liability, and where I think your business model falls apart.
> Southern county needs to play someone.  My gut feeling is that they will not want, nor be able to play against pigskin teams.  That means they will have to play against Calvert Club leagues.  Because of legal liability issues, Calvert will not play against them unless they are backed exclusively by the county.  That cannot happen according to the county unless pigskin disbands.  So by that logic, your statement doesn't make sense - you cannot have Southern County exist in their proposed business model co-existing with Pigskin.  I feel that you have painted the county and yourselves into an unteneble corner.
Click to expand...


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## vindog

SouthCountyMom said:
			
		

> GhostWriter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good one!!!!!!  HAHA, we are all hoping for change/improvement, as a board member to Pigskin I'm very dedicated to improving the overall football program.[/
> 
> Are the board members the same as years past? If so why has nothing change. If not, who votes them in? Does pigskin post their board members on their sight? If so, GREAT. If not why? Does the county still have a seat on the board? No ofense again, but I hope there will be choices besides just pigskin!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by the way, the county has had a standing invitation and voting board member seat for the past 20 years - for the past 18 they have chosen not to show up!
Click to expand...


----------



## vindog

thrasher said:
			
		

> My name is John by the way and I was a coach in the early 80’s prior to the take over. I do know what I am talking about with living in the county for years and you with your 2 years of experience in any program. With a grand son in the program I would like to see change. What is so hard about that? Trust me I have put my time in and so has my son, why such hatred? AS I SAID BEFORE MARCH 7TH will be a day celebration.  Trust me on that one.



Sir, I have no problem with competition or a new league - but not to the detriment of the current one.  How would you feel if the county came to your front door and told you that they had decided they didn't like the way you were maintaining your property?  That they intended to move you out of it, put another family in place, and give them money to get them started - but that the WORST case would be that their cost estimates were high, depending on whether or not you wanted to donate your furniture to the county's effort....  That is what they propose to do with Football - kill the current program, break up the teams, and give the rights to play football to a new untested, inexperienced organization.  Why am I supposed to like that?  How is that competition?  How is that even AMERICAN???
If southern county would like to set up as a new organization, able to compete with pigskin, great.  But they are unable to play with anyone other than themselves, unless they have county backing.  County backing means that pigskin will be forced to build their own fields and play on private property.  Are you so jaded, cynical, and "passionate for change" that you are willing to see the civil liberties of an independant organization be destroyed?
Pigskin has never complained, or tried to stop a new organization from starting.  But compete fairly - put together a better product, BE WILLING TO SHARE FIELDS - the county has already offered alternate fields for your organization, but you TURNED THEM DOWN because you are convinced that everyone will rush to your group, and you will only accept the fields that pigskin currently occupies.  Compete fairly - start from a small organization and grow - don't demand that the county kills a successful one.

Bottom line is this - Competition is good, and how things should happen.  Southern County Youth Football, its organization and leaders and advocates all support the idea that their organization (however untested, experimental and more expensive) should be adopted by the county to the detriment of Pigskin.  They expect the county to kill our organization and support theirs.  This tyranny of the minority is nothing short of what we saw in Iraq under Saddam, in every Fascist government that ever existed, and is totally 100% unamerican and wrong.

Yes sir, I have only spent THREE seasons here as a pigskin parent / coach / board member.  I have spent the last 10 coaching two sons in multiple sports from baseball, to flag football, to tackle, as well as working with kids through the Boy Scouts of America.  I am in the military and recently recieved TAD orders that will send me to Iraq for a year.  And yet, I use some of my precious little time left to participate in this forum, to meet with the county commissioners, and to stop this unamerican, and wrong destruction of a private organization.  Please explain to me John, why enlisting the county to destroy one organization and set up a new one is morally correct?


----------



## vindog

youthfootball said:
			
		

> Vince,
> I have seen everything you have written on here and I think you need to becareful, because you speak nothing of the truth when it comes to Southern County Youth Football Inc. You have done nothing but bash and put down something you know nothing about. Did you attend any of the meetings that we had??? Everything you say is something that you have heard from someone else. You are more then welcome to call me and ask me any question that you want. The county is doing whatever they want to do I have no control over that. I told the County we would use any field that they could provide to us. So please if you don't know what you are talking about then please don't comment on it. I coached for Pigskin last year and I do know how that operation is worked. You talk about selling pizza but what you don't tell everyone is that each child must sell 5 kits and that money goes to Pigskin and every pizza over that then goes to the team. Then you talk about the cost being double well it isn't doubled it just isn't hidden behide pizza. raffles. jersey cost, etc... So Vince please do yourself a favor if you don't know what you are talking about then leave it alone. Ok an offer to Pigskin Football and to you... Allow Southern County Youth Football Inc. to take over the South in your league and I will provide my own equipment and everything else,we will also hire an outside officiating group... Yea like Pigskin is going to allow that... So please feel free to call me Vince with anything you may have to ask me. If you have a problem with what the county is doing then talk to them and stop blaming everything on everyone else.
> 
> 301-862-4155
> www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com




If you go back and LOOK at my previous posts, you will find that I have no desire to call you.  Hell, you may convince me Chris, but I don't want you to convince me - I want you in public to answer the questions previously posted.
Pizza - here we go again.  $90 to register for football.  Yes, you have to SELL five pizzas.  Not buy them yourself.  If a parent is too lazy to have their kids go out and sell five pizzas, then yes, I guess that they will spend an extra $40.  Personally, AFTER each kid on my team sold five kits, all the rest of the money rolled back to our team - because we had some motivated kids, we earned an extra $360 from the league towards our pizza party.  You think the parents just each bought 10 kits themselves???  Hell, my folks usually "buy" three to four kits for us and send us the money.  So once again - $90 for pigskin, plus a little extra legwork to sell five pizza kits, plus discounts and hardship board sponsorships for those who need help, or $160 flat rate for southern county.  There is a reason that nobody hardly EVER uses the buyout option for pigskin to avoid the fundraiser - BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!

As for attending your meetings, if I am able to bring up all sorts of discrepancies and inconsistencies just off what you have posted online, then why do I need to waste my time at one of your meetings?

#1 - If you will be non profit, so state on your website.  Until then, you will have to continue to evade responding to the charge that after year one, you will either have to drop the registration fee, or explain what the profits will be going towards....because if you are not depreciating equipment, then you will be raking in money.

#2 - "an offer to take over the southern teams"....How Generous.....we just roll over and "donate" all our hard work to a group of people who have NEVER operated a league before, have questionable financing, a different and marginal weight standard, and who will guarantee that we will be travelling over the bridge for games all the time....you guys are too much.  

Besides that, as a coach I have observed whom your supporters are - most of them good people, but more than a couple whom I have always questioned whether or not they are in it for the glory or for the kids - not you, of course, but I for one have seen emails from one of your ardent supporters and suppliers of pigskin info to Don himself asking to coach again for Pigskin, should we go back to Pop Warner.  

Chris, the right way to do this would have been to stand up like a man, and approach the Pigskin board with your ideas last fall.  Open kimono, lay down your cards.  The county is exploding, and there would be no doubt in my mind that had you approached us with an idea to cooperate and start up a league that could even have played against pigskin from the start, we could have worked something out.  But you didn't - you snuck around, had folks supply you with pigskin info, and worked it out for the county to get involved.  Deliberately or inadvertently.  Live by the sword, die by the sword my friend.  Your business plan is faulty, your numbers don't work, and I will be surprised if you can convince the people of this county that you and a few of your bubbas can manage a league better than pigskin has for over 25 years.


----------



## vindog

youthfootball said:
			
		

> Vince,
> We will see you at the new coaches meeting once the county approves this in March... Until then thanks for your support...



Believe what you want to, but don't count your chickens, or your commissioners before they are hatched.  By the way, thanks once again for dodging the opportunity to answer the questions previously posted in this forum publicly.  I am sure that this will build the confidence in your organization of those reading this thread.


----------



## smilin

Whew glad all of that's over! 
It's a tough act to follow when someone works very hard, but is called lots of moronic (did I use the "M" word?) names for not adequately furnishing information. 
Oh that's right - if anybody had a question there was a phone number in there. I must have missed that fact (maybe several times).
It must be easier to sit back and tell them they just don't know what they are doing
Chris, hope to meet you someday and thank you in person.


----------



## BigRed

youthfootball said:
			
		

> Vince,
> Better becareful about how you slander an Incorporation... You are also on here representing Pigskin and you have done nothing but slander Southern County Youth Football Inc.. So I am sure you and I will be seeing more of each other.. Have a great day and thank-you for your support in Youth Football it will be needed when the County takes it over... You have been given a chance to get a hold of me and you have decided not to. You decided to go on an open forum and slander a business, not a smart move on your part...
> 
> 
> Vince I would love to sit on here and go back and forth with you but I have a County to help in getting Youth Football started..




Well in some of your free time you may want to look up the definition of slander.   I think you were probably going for libel, but either way good luck with that.


----------



## vindog

Awww come on Red - don't you know that whenever someone presents contrary evidence and factual criticisms of a proposal that you have made public, step one is to try and take them out of the public forum to talk so that you don't have to answer their questions in the open, and step two is to threaten legal action, however ludicrous....


----------



## reelsdeals

I've been on here before giving my support to Chris and the idea of forming a new league and once again, I'm doing the same.  Once before, I gave my opinion on the fact that someone is trying to do something good and give options, but negative people try to get them down and demean them.  I've been away from this issue for a little bit and didn't get to attend the meeting because I was at the hospital with my pregnant wife.  I was devistated that I didn't get to attend and the information I've received about the league is nothing but positive.
Chris, you have done a marvelous job of giving your time and energy and I'm sure money as well, getting this whole idea in the works and getting the league started.  Don't let the haters get you down.  From the first time you talked to me about starting this new league, we knew that there would be people that would not want this to succeed, and you can see that now on here.  As I've stated in the past, anything that you need me to help with, give me a call or whatever and I'll do what I can to help.  This is about the kids, no matter what others may think.  I'm so ready to step on the field and train these kids and see them progress as the year goes on.  That's what makes coaching great and seeing the league progress will be great as well.  
People, everyone needs to get behind this man and kiss his butt for doing what no one else has been willing to do for the past 25 years.  I've only been here for two years, but I've talked to many people that have lived here for years and have always had issues with the way Pigskin was ran, but what have they done to facilitate changes?  Nothing.  We now have someone who is trying to do that and what kind of thanks does he get?  Someone bashing them and questioning every word and everything thing he does.  Everyone needs to show their support for the changes that are coming.  Who cares what the county does with a $55,000 position.  That's not the issue.  Operating costs, that's not the issue either.  The issue is someone putting down the efforts of someone trying to do something good, something that will make things only better down the road.  Competition will bring about positive changes in both leagues.
The pizza issue, give me a break.  Those things are so over priced and to be honest, they suck.  Me and my family tried to sell those kits and couldn't sell any.  We had to pay for the kits ourselves and didn't have the money for them, but we managed.  I still have some in my freezer is anyone wants to buy them.  
Great work Chris.  Keep up the great work and you have my support 110%!


----------



## smilin

The main problem that everyone has had is the administration and management of the pigskin program. Just about everyone has agreed the coaches and team Moms are doing a great job and should be commended for their time and effort.
This where everything splits in two camps. 
The people who want to continue with the same old same old, or those who would like a choice. 
The Parks and Recs proposal is to be the league administration for  three areas and one or more leagues based upon successful programs in Calvert and Charles.

"We hope that the Pigskin Club will be a participant" - Mr. Rollins

They are not proposing to take anything over or away from anyone except a monopoly over football in St.Marys. If they have to form a complete program by themselves, they probably will. The last time I looked freedom of choice was American, and monopolies weren't.
The $250,000 budget item is a loan to be amortized over the life of the equipment. This will lower the entry fees to participate. They are NOT following what Chris has proposed, they are looking at their own ways to alleviate the perceived - real or not - problems in playing football on their fields. 
It is boiling down to one thing - control - Who controls what. Does pigskin control football in St. Marys? Right now - yes. The threat that I've heard bandied about that Pigskin will build their own field is OK, that's what choice is all about.
In case you think the money to start a St. Marys league is exhorbitant, take a look at what it cost for a KAYAK landing.


----------



## Msd_plumbing

Chris you were a probationary head coach, and you know that you were not going to be approved by the board to come back because of the incident that happen at Dent.  Also most of the coaches from the OSPREYS were thrown out of Pigskin.  Calvert County Parks and Rec does not run football. It is administer by Parks and Rec, and the 5 organizations are the ones that run it.


----------



## GhostWriter

youthfootball said:
			
		

> The incident you are referring to that happen at Lettie Dent about me being ejected from a game, was over me incouraging a child that recovered a fumble (If you were there you would of seen or heard). Pigskins policy for a coach being ejected from a game is a 1 game suspension. After discussion and review by Pigskin officials I was not suspened. So I must  have done nothing wrong being that I was not suspened. As for the Osprey it has nothing to do with me or Southern County Youth Football Inc.
> Oh and by the way...Per Pigskin, I am the only one in history of Pigskin who started the season with 22 kids and ended the season with all the same 22 kids. That must say alot about the type of person I am.
> You seem like you are very dedicated to football. I hope you're as dedicated when the County takes over.
> As I've stated before if you have any questions regarding Southern County Youth Football Inc. you may call 301-862-4155.
> Thank you and have a great day!!!


Chris, I was at that game and there was more too you getting thrown out of that game then just encouraging a child, but that's last year.  To correct your statement you are not the only coach in history to finish a year with all of your kids still on the roster, I've done that the last two years I've been head coached.  You sound very strong about the county taking over football, I would not assume that until the votes are complete......  You know pigskin has no problem with your new league or the hardwork I know you had to put into the program so far.  The problem is the county mandating what the rules are; weights, ages, registration, separating the areas of the county with boundaries so if you don't like the central club, you don't have a choice to play in the south due to the boundaries.  If the county stays out of the equation then the taxpayers and children of st. mary's county truly get a choice of which program they will play for without the boundaries to limit where they can play.  I hope this works out for everyone involved and the only way for that to happen is for the county to step back.


----------



## Msd_plumbing

youthfootball said:
			
		

> The incident you are referring to that happen at Lettie Dent about me being ejected from a game, was over me incouraging a child that recovered a fumble (If you were there you would of seen or heard). Pigskins policy for a coach being ejected from a game is a 1 game suspension. After discussion and review by Pigskin officials I was not suspened. So I must  have done nothing wrong being that I was not suspened. As for the Osprey it has nothing to do with me or Southern County Youth Football Inc.
> Oh and by the way...Per Pigskin, I am the only one in history of Pigskin who started the season with 22 kids and ended the season with all the same 22 kids. That must say alot about the type of person I am.
> You seem like you are very dedicated to football. I hope you're as dedicated when the County takes over.
> As I've stated before if you have any questions regarding Southern County Youth Football Inc. you may call 301-862-4155.
> Thank you and have a great day!!!



The incident where you were cussing at the ref, and got thrown out of the game.  But the point is all new coaches in Pigskin are on probation for the first year.  The board this year being as you had that problem was not going to let you coach.  I know what your intentions are, I was at your meeting.  We have no problem with you starting up a new league.  Everyone should have a choice, but you should do it on your own. Parks and Rec have no involvement with football. They say because they do not have the funds.  Well we don't get paid to do what we do. All they will do is sit back and collect a paycheck, while the (non-paid) presidents of the "clubs" will do all the work. They do not care about the children, if they had, they would have showed up to our meetings, and brought the complaint to us, rather then file them away.


----------



## SouthCountyMom

WOW...Chris who ever you are I give much credit!!!!! If you have another meeting I would love to be there to shake your hand!!!! I wouldn't put up with all this nonsense from anybody!!! Sounds like to me Pigskin backers are upset. If the man was cussing as stated, than why wasen't he kicked off??? Let me guess thats a new rule, with a new board, as I see still not posted on the site. My friends in Calvert love the way football is ran.I had one that switched teams due to the fact it didn't care the one team. As I've said before I like to be able to choose not be told who my sons are going to play for. Thats America!!! Freedom of Choice!!!!!......Chris, if things work out with the county as I hope, will you be joining them to run a team??? If so, I'll be the first to join!!! If not, are you going to pursue the southern county league??? I'll call you. Keep up the good work Chris!!! It seems like you're more in it for the kids. As far as everyone else I can't figure out. They keep talking about$$$$$$$$. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't look at price tags for my kids. I do whats best for them an no amount of $$$$ matters. Yes I am very limited in the $$$ fact. But I always make due for my kids!!!!!GOD BLESS.


----------



## SouthCountyMom

youthfootball said:
			
		

> Also if I was cussing don't you think I should have been let go as a coach or suspended for a game at that time. I guess that shows that cussing is ok in your league, seeing I was not let go or suspended. I wasn't suspended or let go because I did not cuss. I will see all of you at the meeting on Tuesday. I think everyone is trying to blame me for the county taking over, blame yourself for allowing kids to be subjected to the behavior they have been subjected to for the last 25 years. Becareful how you put out lies about anyone on here. I will see you all next Tuesday. If the county doesn't take over trust me other back-up plans will go into affect...
> 
> Thanks for your support in Youth Football.. Rememeber this is all about the kids....


Make sure you let everyone know what your back up plans are. My husband and I would love to help out in anyway!!!!!!


----------



## SouthCountyMom

smilin said:
			
		

> The main problem that everyone has had is the administration and management of the pigskin program. Just about everyone has agreed the coaches and team Moms are doing a great job and should be commended for their time and effort.
> This where everything splits in two camps.
> The people who want to continue with the same old same old, or those who would like a choice.
> The Parks and Recs proposal is to be the league administration for  three areas and one or more leagues based upon successful programs in Calvert and Charles.
> 
> "We hope that the Pigskin Club will be a participant" - Mr. Rollins
> 
> They are not proposing to take anything over or away from anyone except a monopoly over football in St.Marys. If they have to form a complete program by themselves, they probably will. The last time I looked freedom of choice was American, and monopolies weren't.
> The $250,000 budget item is a loan to be amortized over the life of the equipment. This will lower the entry fees to participate. They are NOT following what Chris has proposed, they are looking at their own ways to alleviate the perceived - real or not - problems in playing football on their fields.
> It is boiling down to one thing - control - Who controls what. Does pigskin control football in St. Marys? Right now - yes. The threat that I've heard bandied about that Pigskin will build their own field is OK, that's what choice is all about.
> In case you think the money to start a St. Marys league is exhorbitant, take a look at what it cost for a KAYAK landing.


Well Stated!!!!!!


----------



## Msd_plumbing

youthfootball said:
			
		

> Also if I was cussing don't you think I should have beended. I wasn't suspend let go as a coach or suspended for a game at that time. I guess that shows that cussing is ok in your league, seeing I was not let go or suspened or let go because I did not cuss. I will see all of you at the meeting on Tuesday. I think everyone is trying to blame me for the county taking over, blame yourself for allowing kids to be subjected to the behavior they have been subjected to for the last 25 years. Becareful how you put out lies about anyone on here. I will see you all next Tuesday. If the county doesn't take over trust me other back-up plans will go into affect...
> 
> Thanks for your support in Youth Football.. Rememeber this is all about the kids....




You were suspended.  My assistant coach had to stand in for you at the game.


----------



## vindog

youthfootball said:
			
		

> I do hope you have witness to back your story because you just like Vindog have crossed the line. I don't remember seeing you there so you shouldn't comment to what you don't have any clue about. I do not have to defend myself to you or anyone else on here. I do support the county.



To your assertion that libel or slander occurred, first you must prove that I lied.  next you must prove that I knew it was a lie, and finally that it was with malicious intent.  I do know however that threatening ANYONE with legal action is a violation of standards and practices on this forum.

Besides that, you are really giving many of the bloggers a real warm fuzzy about your state of mind, maturity, and business savvy threatening those who question your business sense with legal action at the drop of a hat.  Hey - I won't be in any league this year, I am going to Iraq for a year, but the county commissioners have (at a private meeting) and will continue to hear my concerns about your version of what you believe constitutes good business practices in a county run field.


----------



## big_poppa

Hey hey hey ummmm yeah I am not a mediator by any means, but shew lets slow this down a bit y'all.  As everyone knows I support Chris in all of this, but at the same time Vin has one good point, to an outsider looking in Chris the way you are going back and forth with him doesn't look good.  But at the same time Vin you are doing it to yourself and pigskin too man.  I am not trying to start another war on here, but to calm the one going on.  Either way you guys I think we all lost sight a long time ago about what this forum was intended for.  Lets get proactive with this.  Just my two cents, and don't come my way with that crap either, as I am just trying to help out.  Thanks and keep smilin!!!!  Man this was beginning to be the script for an episode of Jerry Springer!!!!


----------



## Msd_plumbing

youthfootball said:
			
		

> You must be referring to another person I was never suspended nor did your assistant coach stand in for me. You better get your facts straight... Better have witness to this....




Oh my witness list is kind of long.  How many do you want?


----------



## smilin

*Thanks*



			
				big_poppa said:
			
		

> Hey hey hey ummmm yeah I am not a mediator by any means, but shew lets slow this down a bit y'all.  As everyone knows I support Chris in all of this, but at the same time Vin has one good point, to an outsider looking in Chris the way you are going back and forth with him doesn't look good.  But at the same time Vin you are doing it to yourself and pigskin too man.  I am not trying to start another war on here, but to calm the one going on.  Either way you guys I think we all lost sight a long time ago about what this forum was intended for.  Lets get proactive with this.  Just my two cents, and don't come my way with that crap either, as I am just trying to help out.  Thanks and keep smilin!!!!  Man this was beginning to be the script for an episode of Jerry Springer!!!!




Thanks for trying to be at least the voice of moderation. A choice is a choice and I can't wait to make mine. You've acted well Chris, don't let the nay sayers get you down.
I think there are some other things I'm going to do while this name calling goes on and on and on.
It's trash day so I'll throw the garbage out.


----------



## smilin

I must be half asleep. 
Did I read somewhere in this thread that cussing is  grounds to be suspended in Pigskin Football?
Naw, couldn't have.


----------



## reelsdeals

Msd_plumbing said:
			
		

> Oh my witness list is kind of long.  How many do you want?


It must be a long list of zero because Chris wasn't suspended or anything.  My child was fortunate enough to be coached by Chris and the experience was nothing short of amazing for him.  He was the smallest child by far on the team as well as the league.  He didn't want to play and had a hard time, and Chris made it fun for him to play.  He talks about playing football everyday, every single day.  That's amazing to me.  To go from wanting to play video games everyday to wanting to play football everyday is a miracle for him.  He loves football and can't wait to play.  That says something about the kind of person Chris is.
You aren't talking about the 1/2 division Raiders obviously, seeing how you were in the 1 division.  Chris wasn't suspended.  The incident was that Chris was encouraging a child for recovering a fumble and one of the refs told him to shut up.  You don't tell a coach to shut up when he is telling the kids they did well.  That shows a lack of training and sportsmanship on the zebra crew.  He was thrown out of the game for standing up for himself and his team, not cussing and he wasn't suspended.  
There has always been a dictator attitude with the league and if you don't bow down to them, then you will be black balled and not allowed to coack anymore.  Try to do something good and what does it get you?  Thrown out of the league.


----------



## SouthCountyMom

Hmm....Who do I believe??? The people whos kids don't play on either team and have some kind of enjoyment bashing Chris or do I believe a man that has a child that plays on Chris's team and you don't hear much from???? I'll pick #2. Let me ask the Pigskin backers something....Where are the people in charge of Pigskin at???? I give Chris credit...He's up here defending himself and the league. He's not letting others do his dirty work. Chris keep your chin up....Thank you again and again for giving this county some kind of hope that there will be choices. Ignore the bashing. It seems to me their trying to pull anything out of their magic hat to make you look bad. After all there were alot of witness that seen and heard everything that went on, on the fields over the few years. I still don't see a list of names that are on the board. I'm sure one of you Pigskin backers could let everyone in on this secret. Thank you!!! GOOOO COUNTY!!!!!!


----------



## GhostWriter

SouthCountyMom said:
			
		

> Hmm....Who do I believe??? The people whos kids don't play on either team and have some kind of enjoyment bashing Chris or do I believe a man that has a child that plays on Chris's team and you don't hear much from???? I'll pick #2. Let me ask the Pigskin backers something....Where are the people in charge of Pigskin at???? I give Chris credit...He's up here defending himself and the league. He's not letting others do his dirty work. Chris keep your chin up....Thank you again and again for giving this county some kind of hope that there will be choices. Ignore the bashing. It seems to me their trying to pull anything out of their magic hat to make you look bad. After all there were alot of witness that seen and heard everything that went on, on the fields over the few years. I still don't see a list of names that are on the board. I'm sure one of you Pigskin backers could let everyone in on this secret. Thank you!!! GOOOO COUNTY!!!!!!



I commend Chris for the work he has put into his league and he has every right to defend himself, remember every is allowed their opionion.......  As far as the board members being on our website; as soon as the entire board is finialized they will be posted on the website.


----------



## smilin

*Mr. Rollins of Park & Rec responds*



			
				vindog said:
			
		

> Awww come on Red - don't you know that whenever someone presents contrary evidence and factual criticisms of a proposal that you have made public, step one is to try and take them out of the public forum to talk so that you don't have to answer their questions in the open, and step two is to threaten legal action, however ludicrous....



Just found this explanation on the Pigskin football site. This will clear up a lot of misconceptions being thrown around:

"As the County's Director of Recreation and Parks I wanted to clarify a few points in the "County Government wants to take over football program" article. First, the County Commissiners have not made a decison on this. The Board has taken R&P's proposal under advisement and plans to make a decision about this in the near future. 

Second, the proposal for R&P to run the County football program will not cost taxpayers $300,000 as indicated in the article. R&P's proposal to the Commissioners suggested that it may be necessary to provide financial assistance (i.e loans) to three or more community youth football organizations or clubs that would be established. 

These volunteer run clubs would be the backbone of the new program as they would do the necessary work to establish and enter teams into the League which would be run by R&P. The clubs would pay a franchise fee for each team entered into the League to pay for referees and other League expenses. This organizational model is used successfully in Charles and Calvert Counties for youth football. 

In a worse case scenario, $200,000 in start up money may have to be available for loans to these clubs to enable them to purchase equipment and get established. This money would be expected to be repaid to the County over a couple of years after the clubs held registration and did fundraising. 

A separate recommendation was made to the Comissioners about a youth sports iniative which would require youth league administrator's and coaches to have background checks and be trained through a national program. This initiative would be administered by R&P and involve all youth sports leagues who want to use County facilities. A new R&P staff person would be needed to work with sports leagues to implement and manage this program. Only about 25% of this new person's time would go towards running the youth football program. The new staff position would cost about $55,000 per year. 

Finally, R&P proposed that the County provide $25,000 in tax funds for scholarships for all youth sports leagues. This would enable Leagues to accomodate low and moderate income families who have financial hardships. The $25,000 would provide financial support to all leagues for individuals unable to pay the registration fee. 

The article also said "the plan has weight and age limits which are very unsafe for our kids and the registration costs will double from what you paid last year..." The R&P proposal did not address weight and age divisions; that is something that would be worked out with input from all of the youth football clubs if the new league is established. Nor did the proposal suggest what the registration fees would be. In reality, each community football club would determine what its participant registration fee would be, not R&P. 

R&P and the County Commissioners are interested in hearing from League participants about this and we encourage you to do so. 

Phil Rollins, Director 
St. Mary's County Recreation, Parks 
and Community Services 
301-475-4200 x1811 
phil.rollins@co.saint-marys.md.us "


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## GhostWriter

smilin said:
			
		

> Just found this explanation on the Pigskin football site. This will clear up a lot of misconceptions being thrown around:
> 
> "As the County's Director of Recreation and Parks I wanted to clarify a few points in the "County Government wants to take over football program" article. First, the County Commissiners have not made a decison on this. The Board has taken R&P's proposal under advisement and plans to make a decision about this in the near future.
> 
> Second, the proposal for R&P to run the County football program will not cost taxpayers $300,000 as indicated in the article. R&P's proposal to the Commissioners suggested that it may be necessary to provide financial assistance (i.e loans) to three or more community youth football organizations or clubs that would be established.
> 
> These volunteer run clubs would be the backbone of the new program as they would do the necessary work to establish and enter teams into the League which would be run by R&P. The clubs would pay a franchise fee for each team entered into the League to pay for referees and other League expenses. This organizational model is used successfully in Charles and Calvert Counties for youth football.
> 
> In a worse case scenario, $200,000 in start up money may have to be available for loans to these clubs to enable them to purchase equipment and get established. This money would be expected to be repaid to the County over a couple of years after the clubs held registration and did fundraising.
> 
> A separate recommendation was made to the Comissioners about a youth sports iniative which would require youth league administrator's and coaches to have background checks and be trained through a national program. This initiative would be administered by R&P and involve all youth sports leagues who want to use County facilities. A new R&P staff person would be needed to work with sports leagues to implement and manage this program. Only about 25% of this new person's time would go towards running the youth football program. The new staff position would cost about $55,000 per year.
> 
> Finally, R&P proposed that the County provide $25,000 in tax funds for scholarships for all youth sports leagues. This would enable Leagues to accomodate low and moderate income families who have financial hardships. The $25,000 would provide financial support to all leagues for individuals unable to pay the registration fee.
> 
> The article also said "the plan has weight and age limits which are very unsafe for our kids and the registration costs will double from what you paid last year..." The R&P proposal did not address weight and age divisions; that is something that would be worked out with input from all of the youth football clubs if the new league is established. Nor did the proposal suggest what the registration fees would be. In reality, each community football club would determine what its participant registration fee would be, not R&P.
> 
> R&P and the County Commissioners are interested in hearing from League participants about this and we encourage you to do so.
> 
> Phil Rollins, Director
> St. Mary's County Recreation, Parks
> and Community Services
> 301-475-4200 x1811
> phil.rollins@co.saint-marys.md.us "




This is what is takes to run a football program; "Only about 25% of this new person's time would go towards running the youth football program. The new staff position would cost about $55,000 per year." You mean you agree with this type of proposal only 25% of this position will be dedicated to running this 3 league football program that is crazy, Let everyone hear me say this again, the quality of the football program in this county will decline quickly with a government paid employee at $55,000 a yr using only 25% of their time towards the football program. Independent organizations have several unpaid volunteers dedicating more than 25% of their time to make an successful program work.

Please people think about this before you jump on the counties bandwagon. If you support the new league support them, they county taking over is not the answer to these problems you have.


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## vindog

GhostWriter said:
			
		

> This is what is takes to run a football program; "Only about 25% of this new person's time would go towards running the youth football program. The new staff position would cost about $55,000 per year." You mean you agree with this type of proposal only 25% of this position will be dedicated to running this 3 league football program that is crazy, Let everyone hear me say this again, the quality of the football program in this county will decline quickly with a government paid employee at $55,000 a yr using only 25% of their time towards the football program. Independent organizations have several unpaid volunteers dedicating more than 25% of their time to make an successful program work.
> 
> Please people think about this before you jump on the counties bandwagon. If you support the new league support them, they county taking over is not the answer to these problems you have.



If you read the next post in the pigskin website, you will find a yet to be answered post replying to Phil -

200,000 + 55,000 + 25,000 = 280,000 - so we were off by 20,000!

Phil also said that the "worst case" was based on whether or not Don Kemp would "donate" his equipment to the county.......  And he is the genius who will be in charge!!!


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## smilin

vindog said:
			
		

> If you read the next post in the pigskin website, you will find a yet to be answered post replying to Phil -
> 
> 200,000 + 55,000 + 25,000 = 280,000 - so we were off by 20,000!
> 
> Phil also said that the "worst case" was based on whether or not Don Kemp would "donate" his equipment to the county.......  And he is the genius who will be in charge!!!



Let's try this the way it's written:
Up to $200,000 as a loan IF the league has to buy it's equipment (I can't seem to find a reference to the Pigskin league anywhere). To be amortized and repaid. Pigskin has all it's equipment and doesn't have to buy ANYTHING.
Once the loan is repaid (with interest, presumably), the county has not paid out anything.
The new R&P position is not ONLY for football with all its insurmountable problems, but will also be doing other things during the rest of the year. Maybe working _with_ _other_ sports - basketball, soccer, swmming come to mind right off. 
So if you accept Mr. Rollins' estimate of the time this person will be working on football, (which I'm sure in your capacity, you won't) which is 25%, then you have to divide his/her salary by 4 (55000 divided by 4 = $13,750).
I also think it's pretty magnanimous of the county to take The Pigskin league's donations over, plus some, to make sure underpriviledged kids get to play. Tack on up to $25,000.
I won't bore you with the math, but will ask a question:
How much does a new car or truck cost today?


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## SouthCountyMom

vindog said:
			
		

> If you read the next post in the pigskin website, you will find a yet to be answered post replying to Phil -
> 
> 200,000 + 55,000 + 25,000 = 280,000 - so we were off by 20,000!
> 
> Phil also said that the "worst case" was based on whether or not Don Kemp would "donate" his equipment to the county.......  And he is the genius who will be in charge!!!


Who wants that old equipment anyways???? I would love to see the papers where the helmets were recertified!!!


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## vindog

SouthCountyMom said:
			
		

> Who wants that old equipment anyways???? I would love to see the papers where the helmets were recertified!!!



I am sorry ma'am, but your understanding of the situation is lacking.  Recertification is just like "gently used" cars - it means the manufacturer charges the user a cutrate fee to guarantee that the helmet is still usable.  By definition, Recertification MEANS USED EQUIPMENT!!!!!!!!!


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## SouthCountyMom

vindog said:
			
		

> I am sorry ma'am, but your understanding of the situation is lacking.  Recertification is just like "gently used" cars - it means the manufacturer charges the user a cutrate fee to guarantee that the helmet is still usable.  By definition, Recertification MEANS USED EQUIPMENT!!!!!!!!!


Ummm....I realize they are used. But, just like used cars they need to be maintain and checked after so many miles. So are the helmets recertified every 2 years by the manufacture.


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## smilin

First of all I would like to wish you God speed and pray you get back here after your tour safe and sound.
I hope you will be able to relate to anyone who will  listen, that when you left your home you were engaged in some freedom of speech!
Thanks, Freedom isn't Free.


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## thrasher

*you did it!!!*

 Thanks BOCC for supporting the New League. It took awhile Chris but it was well worth it, thanks. Good luck with the '06 season Southern County Football.


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## youthfootball

We are still working on the final details with St. Mary's & Calvert Parks & Rec... We will be posting Registration information on our web site in the next couple of days. This league will inner league with Calvert County teams. We will be playing here in St. Mary's and in Calvert.... All information will be posted... Please call or email us with any questions. 

301-862-4155 or southerncountyfootball@direcway.com

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## slotted

youthfootball said:
			
		

> We are still working on the final details with St. Mary's & Calvert Parks & Rec... We will be posting Registration information on our web site in the next couple of days. This league will inner league with Calvert County teams. We will be playing here in St. Mary's and in Calvert.... All information will be posted... Please call or email us with any questions.
> 
> 301-862-4155 or southerncountyfootball@direcway.com
> 
> www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


I got the news yesterday.


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## smilin

My son's eyes lit up when he heard he might be playing against Calvert County teams.
Keep up the great work, and keep us informed.


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## youthfootball

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com

New information added..


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## youthfootball

Please check our web-site everyday, information being added daily..

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## youthfootball

Please check out our web-site information has been updated and added. Please check our site everyday as we are adding new information all the time...

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## youthfootball

On-line registration now open.

Sign-up Now On-line at our web-site for the Patuxent River Raiders....

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## SouthCountyMom

youthfootball said:
			
		

> On-line registration now open.
> 
> Sign-up Now On-line at our web-site for the Patuxent River Raiders....
> 
> www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


I got the flyer yesterday. I'm so excited!!! So are my kids. Love your web site. Thank you!!!!!!


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## youthfootball

Patuxent River Raiders will also be holding registration at this years So. Md. 13th Annual Spring Festival, held at the St. Mary's County Fairgrounds.

Friday      May 5th    5p.m. - 9p.m.
Saturday  May 6th    10 a.m. - 9p.m.
Sunday     May 7th   10 a.m. - 6p.m. 

For more information on the Spring Festival please visit http://www.holyfacechurch.org

Please check out our web-site for all our other registration dates, and you can also register on-line...


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## youthfootball

Registration Dates:

May 6th                   9A - 3P               California Wal-Mart
May 13th                 9A - 3P               California Wal-mart

June 17th                 9A - 3P               Chancellors Run Park
June 24th                 9A - 3P               Chancellors Run Park 

July 8th                    9A - 3P                Lancaster Park 
July 12th                  6P - 8:30P            Lancaster Park

Patuxent River Raiders will also be holding registration at this years So. Md. 13th Annual Spring Festival, held at the St. Mary's County Fairgrounds.

Friday      May 5th    5p.m. - 9p.m.
Saturday  May 6th    10a.m. - 9p.m.
Sunday     May 7th    10a.m. - 6p.m. 

For more information on the Spring Festival please visit http://www.holyfacechurch.org


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## youthfootball

Just A reminder that we are holding our second registration,

May 13th                 9A - 3P               California Wal-mart

If you can not make it you can register on-line.

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## youthfootball

Just wanted to thank everyone that came out and signed up the past two weekends. We had a huge amount of people that registered. I would like to remind everyone that we are also taking on-line registeration. 

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## nomoney

Just a quick question....

I take it there will be a # of games out of town?  (Chesapeake Beach, Dunkirk, etc) Is that true?  If so-how many in any given season?


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## youthfootball

There will be games played out of county. There will be 4 to 5 games played at Lancaster our home field and then 4 to 5 in Calvert. We are a part of Calvert's League. Hope that answers your questions. Please feel free to call me with any other questions you may have 301-862-4155...


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## youthfootball

Registration Dates:

June 3rd                  9A - 3P               California Wal-Mart
June 10th                9A - 3P                California Wal-Mart
June 17th                9A - 3P                California Wal-Mart

June 17th                 9A - 3P               Chancellors Run Park
June 24th                 9A - 3P               Chancellors Run Park 

July 8th                    9A - 3P                Lancaster Park 
July 12th                  6P - 8:30P            Lancaster Park

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## youthfootball

Registration  tomorrow June 3rd from 9A - 3P @ the California Wal-Mart. Registration will be held rain or shine.

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com


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## JaRome

Anything needed for reg besides the $?  I got a kid that's sick, but want to make sure we get him in.


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## youthfootball

JaRome said:
			
		

> Anything needed for reg besides the $?  I got a kid that's sick, but want to make sure we get him in.



Nothing else needed sir, please give us a call... 301-862-4155


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## youthfootball

We will be holding registration June 10th & June 17th from 9:00am to 3:00pm at the California Wal-mart. Due to a scheduling mistake by Wal-mart both Leagues will be holding Registration at the sametime. We have worked with the management of Wal-mart to allow the Pigskin Football League to be set up at the front entrance. Southern County Youth Football & Cheerleading Inc. (Pax River Raiders) will be set up just outside the Lawn & Garden section. Please make sure that when you sign-up you are signing up for the league that you want.

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com

Please call if you would like to register but are unable to attend one of these dates, other arrangments can be made to get your child signed up.


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## youthfootball

We will be holding registration June 10th & June 17th from 9:00am to 3:00pm at the California Wal-mart. Due to a scheduling mistake by Wal-mart both Leagues will be holding Registration at the sametime. We have worked with the management of Wal-mart to allow the Pigskin Football League to be set up at the front entrance. Southern County Youth Football & Cheerleading Inc. (Pax River Raiders) will be set up just outside the Lawn & Garden section. Please make sure that when you sign-up you are signing up for the league that you want.

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com

Please call if you would like to register but are unable to attend one of these dates, other arrangments can be made to get your child signed up.

Don't have the time to come out to registration??? Visit our web-site where you can do on-line registration within 2 mins. www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com 

Registration Fees:

Flag Football - $85.00

Tackle Football all ages - $140.00 

Cheerleading - $100.00

Football Fees include Insurance & Players keep Jersey ($40.00 Value)

Cheerleading Fee includes Insurance & Cheerleaders keep Kick Pants, Socks & Poms. ($30.00 Value)

There are no Fundraiser Or Concession Duties required as there is with other leagues.


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## youthfootball

Due to another scheduling conflict by Wal-mart we have moved the remaining registration dates to the California Giant Food Store. 

Mark Your Calendars for Friday July 14th, 2006. Bingo Basket will be played at the St. James Church Hall. Doors will open at 6:00 PM and Bingo will begin at 7:00PM. Call for details and to reserve your table 301-862-4155. All proceeds will be used to support the Football League. 

 Registration Dates:

June 24th                9A - 3P                California Giant
July  1st                  9A - 3P                California Giant            
July 8th                   9A - 3P                California Giant 

July 12th                  6P - 8:30P           Lancaster Park

Don't have the time to come out to registration??? Visit our web-site where you can do on-line registration within 2 mins. www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com 

Registration Fees:

Flag Football - $85.00

Tackle Football all ages - $140.00 

Cheerleading - $100.00

Football Fees include Insurance & Players keep Jersey ($40.00 Value)

Cheerleading Fee includes Insurance & Cheerleaders keep Kick Pants, Socks & Poms. ($30.00 Value)

There are no Fundraiser Or Concession Duties required as there is with other leagues.


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## youthfootball

The Pax River Raiders will be holding there final registration for Tackle Football for the 2006 season on Saturday July 8th from 9am to 3pm at Lancaster Park. 

Our final registration for Cheerleading & Flag Football will be held on July 12th at Lancaster Park from 6pm to 8pm.

For more inforamtion please visit us on the web at www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com or call us at 301-862-4255.


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## JaRome

Hey, when you all issue equipment, are you issuing practice pants or shoul we buy some so we don't ruin the game pants?


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## youthfootball

JaRome said:
			
		

> Hey, when you all issue equipment, are you issuing practice pants or shoul we buy some so we don't ruin the game pants?



The League will issue practice Pants and game pants. You do not need to buy any pants.....


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## cdsulhoff

So is this league playing against Solomon's Steelers , SYB panthers, and other Calvert teams??? Or, just St. Mary's team?
 Went to your site and it looks like you all are playing Calvert teams?
 I pretty new to football my self and just curious on how things work..


----------



## youthfootball

cdsulhoff said:
			
		

> So is this league playing against Solomon's Steelers , SYB panthers, and other Calvert teams??? Or, just St. Mary's team?
> Went to your site and it looks like you all are playing Calvert teams?
> I pretty new to football my self and just curious on how things work..



Yes we play all of the Calvert Teams, we make up the 7th club in there league...


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## cdsulhoff

youthfootball said:
			
		

> Yes we play all of the Calvert Teams, we make up the 7th club in there league...




 Oh cool!  This is my 2nd year in football with my kids. My youngest played flag last year. This year my oldest is giving it a try... We are part of the Steeler family.. So this year is going to be interesting with having both in football..


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## youthfootball

cdsulhoff said:
			
		

> Oh cool!  This is my 2nd year in football with my kids. My youngest played flag last year. This year my oldest is giving it a try... We are part of the Steeler family.. So this year is going to be interesting with having both in football..



We look foward to playing you. You have a lot of great people in your Steelers Family.


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## smilin

What a change! My kids are having a great time and are super excited about playing out of the county. At first I couldn't figure out what was going on, then I realized everyone was SMILING! Even the kids, after running the umpteenth wind sprint thought they were having fun. 
Cool, thanks Chris.
Are we going to do a caravan to the away games - sort of like the way we used to go to our away High School games way back when (Like Friday Night Lights)?


----------



## JaRome

Are the Raiders having a homecoming, like the other teams in the league?  Also, just out of curiosity, the fact that we're not in pads this past week, a county policy? a Raider policy? just curious cause I heard that the Steelers have been in pads all week.  But, great job, I'M having FUN.


----------



## smilin

JaRome said:
			
		

> Are the Raiders having a homecoming, like the other teams in the league?  Also, just out of curiosity, the fact that we're not in pads this past week, a county policy? a Raider policy? just curious cause I heard that the Steelers have been in pads all week.  But, great job, I'M having FUN.



I'm not sure, after I got the schedule Iwas too shocked to say anything.
Let me see, weigh in is done, everybody had their pads and uniforms two weeks ago, schedules are ready, what's left?
FOOTBALL!


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## Zguy28

Bumping this for Footballnut101.

Looks pretty similar in a lot of ways to what SMYFL is going through.


----------



## Starlifter756

I think what zguy is pointing out is that the raiders were into August and the parents were asking about equipment.

Then pointing out to everyone on the radio - in May - that SMYFL doesn't have equipment.  Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

It could have been beneficial to each league to work out something to play each other - even if scrimmaging, but this "arrangement" with Pigskins seem sleazy in its development, timing, and objective.  It has to cost something.


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## Zguy28

Well there is no denying that the Raiders have become a successful organization over the last 5 years. But when you look back at this thread for instance you see that they were subject to the same questions and rumor mongering that SMYFL is right now. 

Not much has changed in the last five years I guess, except whose playing the part of the new guy and whose playing the part of the old guy.


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## 2Bullies73

*Unfortunately*

Unfortunately its *the guy who loves to coach who gets screwed *in all of it... you can be as helpful as you want and still never get a fair deal from it all no matter who's in charge, there will always be favorites being played no matter... the good old boy politics will follow wherever you go... 

so what does it matter what everyone is saying about each league... when it comes down to it, the kids will play... what else matters...


----------

