# Lincoln



## This_person




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## Agee

This_person said:


> View attachment 109094



By far, my favorite President, if only he could be cloned! Would be a blast to see how he perform with todays political dynamic...


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## nhboy

_Link_


"Non-Lincoln "You Cannot" Quotation

These sentiments were created by the Rev. William J. H. Boetcker, who lectured around the United States about industrial relations at the turn of the twentieth century. _There is no evidence linking them to Lincoln as the author._

At one time President Ronald Reagan used them in a speech, wrongly attributing them to Lincoln. Those who are familiar with Lincoln's writings recognize that these statements do not reflect Lincoln's "voice," nor can they be found in any authentic Lincoln literature.

You cannot bring prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further brotherhood of men by inciting class hatred.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."

Also "they" is not spelled "thay" you silly twit.


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## This_person

nhboy said:


> _Link_
> 
> 
> "Non-Lincoln "You Cannot" Quotation
> 
> These sentiments were created by the Rev. William J. H. Boetcker, who lectured around the United States about industrial relations at the turn of the twentieth century. _There is no evidence linking them to Lincoln as the author._
> 
> At one time President Ronald Reagan used them in a speech, wrongly attributing them to Lincoln. Those who are familiar with Lincoln's writings recognize that these statements do not reflect Lincoln's "voice," nor can they be found in any authentic Lincoln literature.
> 
> You cannot bring prosperity by discouraging thrift.
> You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
> You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
> You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
> You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
> You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
> You cannot further brotherhood of men by inciting class hatred.
> You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
> You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
> You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."
> 
> Also "they" is not spelled "thay" you silly twit.






I guess the sentiment must not be true because the author is mis-attributed.


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## Larry Gude

Lincoln is, arguably and ironically so, the author of the end of America as the land envisioned by the founders.


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## Agee

Larry Gude said:


> Lincoln is, arguably and ironically so, the author of the end of America as the land envisioned by the founders.



"End", as in the last president to truly stand for and by the doctrines and practices of our founders?


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## Larry Gude

Airgasm said:


> "End", as in the last president to truly stand for and by the doctrines and practices of our founders?



No. End as is the one who started the modern practice of taking the oath to preserve and protect the Constitution and then go about getting around it. He is the singularly figure that asserted the dominance of the central government over the states.


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## Agee

Larry Gude said:


> No. End as is the one who started the modern practice of taking the oath to preserve and protect the Constitution and then go about getting around it. He is the singularly figure that asserted the dominance of the central government over the states.



There's the answer to the second part of my question I meant to post. 

ie; "end" as in the first president to side-step our founders principles and set the precedent for our modern day government?...


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## Larry Gude

Airgasm said:


> There's the answer to the second part of my question I meant to post.
> 
> ie; "end" as in the first president to side-step our founders principles and set the precedent for our modern day government?...



Yeah but, not to quibble he didn't side step. He went to war. He asserted the federal authority as boss, lord and ruler over the states and did whatever he needed to do, every step of the way, to assert that authority. We can debate and argue over his intentions, whether they were good or not but there isn't anything to debate over what he did; he did what King George tried to do; put down rebellion.


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## Agee

Larry Gude said:


> Yeah but, not to quibble he didn't side step. He went to war. He asserted the federal authority as boss, lord and ruler over the states and did whatever he needed to do, every step of the way, to assert that authority. We can debate and argue over his intentions, whether they were good or not but there isn't anything to debate over what he did; he did what King George tried to do; put down rebellion.



Haven't always agreed with your opinions, but I do admire your knowledge!


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## Larry Gude

Airgasm said:


> Haven't always agreed with your opinions, but I do admire your knowledge!



The Civil War is a hobby and it is truly fascinating to me how little and how much we've changed since then. How it came about is so uniquely American.


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## Agee

Larry Gude said:


> The Civil War is a hobby and it is truly fascinating to me how little and how much we've changed since then. How it came about is so uniquely American.



Indeed a fascinating chapter in American history, which I thoroughly enjoy reading about or watching documentaries on!


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## Larry Gude

Airgasm said:


> Indeed a fascinating chapter in American history, which I thoroughly enjoy reading about or watching documentaries on!



He was a brilliant politician and had this uniquely supreme self confidence to surround himself with not only rivals but brilliant, accomplished rivals. Amazing figure.


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## Agee

Larry Gude said:


> He was a brilliant politician and had this uniquely supreme self confidence to surround himself with not only rivals but brilliant, accomplished rivals. Amazing figure.



If you haven't read it already, try, "April 1865, The month that Changed America".

An aside, went to reply and pop-ad appears for a book titled, "Lincoln and the Jews" ,damn!


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## Larry Gude

Airgasm said:


> If you haven't read it already, try, "April 1865, The month that Changed America".
> 
> !



Thanks for recommendation. Booth's bullet was the worst possible shot the South could have fired. Maybe the worst one for the nation, too.


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## Gilligan

Larry Gude said:


> Thanks for recommendation. Booth's bullet was the worst possible shot the South could have fired. Maybe the worst one for the nation, too.



Imagine how different things might be today if Reconstruction had not been the horrible process that it was made in to being after Lincoln was gone and any like-minded Congress critters pushed out or pushed aside.


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## Larry Gude

Gilligan said:


> Imagine how different things might be today if Reconstruction had not been the horrible process that it was made in to being after Lincoln was gone and any like-minded Congress critters pushed out or pushed aside.



Here's the problem. We, the people, are so much like a herd. Docile, chillin', lazing around, minding our business. Add in ANY issue, abortion, second hand smoke, fashion, whatever, and, when there is some sort of equilibrium, people act rationally and deliberately and WOULD otherwise be happy, say, to let smoking slowly fade away at the choice of smokers and bar owners and so forth. However, the MOMENT some ####tard senses momentum swinging their way, then, they start shooting (metaphorically) and hollering and waving their hat and doing everything they can do to get the herd stirred up and stampede the issue. Now, all of a sudden, everything is a big ####ing hurry and urgent and all. 

Had war been averted, it seems obvious, based on the history of the times, economic developments, the arch of history, that slavery would have, however slowly, died away. So, instead of 600,000 dead, millions crippled, the societal disruptions and decade after decade of social disharmony and suspicion and fear, it probably all would have evolved peaceful and been way, way better for all concerned, especially slaves. We never spend much time on how harsh life became simply cut loose one day from all they'd ever known and then been dumped into full and total responsibility for themselves, their families, in a society that this had been forced on. 

Hell, the south, before the war, was already importing Irish immigrants to do really ####ting jobs because it was cheaper and did not put very valuable slaves at risk. The cotton gin made slavery viable, big time. How long before mechanization would have made slavery impossible to sustain? A generation? Tops?


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## nhboy

*The Fog Of War*

_Link_

"It is the story of America as seen through the eyes of the former Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara. One of the most controversial and influential figures in world politics, he takes us on an insider's view of the seminal events of the 20th Century. Why was this past Century the most destructive and deadly in all of human history? Are we doomed to repeat our mistakes? Are we free to make choices, or are we at the mercy of inexorable historical forces and ideologies?

From the firebombing of 100,000 Japanese civilians in Tokyo in 1945 to the brink of nuclear catastrophe during the Cuban missile crisis to the devastating effects of the Vietnam War, The Fog of War examines the psychology and reasoning of the government decision-makers who send men to war. How were decisions made and for what reason? What can we learn from these historical events?

As American forces occupy Iraq and the possibility of additional military conflict looms large, The Fog of War is essential viewing for anyone who wants to understand how the American government justifies the use of military force. Combining extraordinary archival footage, recreations, newly declassified White House recordings, and an original score by the Oscar nominated composer, Philip Glass, the film is a disquieting and powerful essay on war, rationality, and human nature."


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## Agee

nhboy said:


> _Link_
> 
> "It is the story of America as seen through the eyes of the former Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara. One of the most controversial and influential figures in world politics, he takes us on an insider's view of the seminal events of the 20th Century. Why was this past Century the most destructive and deadly in all of human history? Are we doomed to repeat our mistakes? Are we free to make choices, or are we at the mercy of inexorable historical forces and ideologies?
> 
> From the firebombing of 100,000 Japanese civilians in Tokyo in 1945 to the brink of nuclear catastrophe during the Cuban missile crisis to the devastating effects of the Vietnam War, The Fog of War examines the psychology and reasoning of the government decision-makers who send men to war. How were decisions made and for what reason?* What can we learn from these historical events?*As American forces occupy Iraq and the possibility of additional military conflict looms large, The Fog of War is essential viewing for anyone who wants to understand how the American government justifies the use of military force. Combining extraordinary archival footage, recreations, newly declassified White House recordings, and an original score by the Oscar nominated composer, Philip Glass, the film is a disquieting and powerful essay on war, rationality, and human nature."



That the human race is destined to war! Always has been, always will be...


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