# 1971 Mustang Boss 302 Prototype



## GURPS




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## Gilligan

Ford produced a mid-boggling array of cars, experimental engines, limited production racing components and other parts back in the 60s and up to about 1970.  That's what makes Ford stuff so fun..and challenging.


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## GURPS

The guys collection of OEM / NOS Stuff for concurs restorations is mind boggling 


Production Line original Parts was interesting as well, he can make the car look like production line original 

That BOSS 302 Engine


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## Grumpy

GURPS said:


> The guys collection of OEM / NOS Stuff for concurs restorations is mind boggling
> 
> 
> Production Line original Parts was interesting as well, he can make the car look like production line original
> 
> That BOSS 302 Engine


Good stuff, but that guy is over the top anal in his restoration..who ever heard of trying to match the overspray from a production line. Guess it comes down to whatever floats your boat.


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> Ford produced a mid-boggling array of cars, experimental engines, limited production racing components and other parts back in the 60s and up to about 1970.  That's what makes Ford stuff so fun..and challenging.


Back in the early 90s when I rebuilt the 289 in my 65 mustang upon tear down, I spec'd all the parts and spent much of the time writing it down because nothing seemed to match the book on a standard C motor of that time. 

Valves were over sized, rods, lifters and cam were different... Codes on the block and heads matched two other designs and it was all FACTORY.  found build sheets when the interior was removed and it confirmed much of the confusion. 

They definitely didn't always stick to a plan.


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## Kyle

Grumpy said:


> Good stuff, but that guy is over the top anal in his restoration..who ever heard of trying to match the overspray from a production line. Guess it comes down to whatever floats your boat.


OCD-Restoration.


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> Back in the early 90s when I rebuilt the 289 in my 65 mustang upon tear down, I spec'd all the parts and spent much of the time writing it down because nothing seemed to match the book on a standard C motor of that time.
> 
> Valves were over sized, rods, lifters and cam were different... Codes on the block and heads matched two other designs and it was all FACTORY.  found build sheets when the interior was removed and it confirmed much of the confusion.
> 
> They definitely didn't always stick to a plan.



Odd..because Ford never produced much variety in the 289s. There were only the three variants (2V, 4V and Hipo) with two different heads. And two blocks..5-bolt bell and 6-bolt bell), And that was it.  Anything else was aftermarket production, mostly Holman Moody at that time, and none of those engines were ever installed at the actual Ford plant.


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## Gilligan

Grumpy said:


> Good stuff, but that guy is over the top anal in his restoration..who ever heard of trying to match the overspray from a production line. Guess it comes down to whatever floats your boat.



Very typical...standard even..for a seriously high quality restoration.  Friend of mine does that for a living and he goes to great lengths to match all original details, down to the hue of the final cadmium plating on all the fasteners and metal parts that are/were cad plated.


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> Odd..because Ford never produced much variety in the 289s. There were only the three variants (2V, 4V and Hipo) with two different heads, And that was it.  Anything else was aftermarket production, mostly Holman Moody at that time, and none of those engines were ever installed at the actual Ford plant.


Perhaps, but when I pulled the heads and found larger valves it started down a scavenger hunt.


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## Grumpy

I follow a youtube guy (Horsepower Warehouse) that restores c1/c2 vettes, he's every bit as anal as the Boss 302 guy.


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> Perhaps, but when I pulled the heads and found larger valves it started down a scavenger hunt.


Ford only produced one set of valve sizes for all 289s from '63-'68: 1.45" ex and 1.78" intake. Even the hipo heads used those valves.  Same is true for the 302.  It wasn't until the 351w came out in '69 that Ford made larger valves for that engine family... 1.54" exhaust and 1.84" intake. I ran a set of those '69 351w heads on the 289 in my '66 Mustang drag car in the mid 70s...that was the "go to" old school upgrade back in those days. Taking it one step further, we/I put Chevy 1.60"/1.94" valves in those 351W heads.  

What you can buy now, off the shelf, in comparison to what we used to hack together is amazing.

Sounds like someone did some upgrading to your engine along the way.


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> Ford only produced one set of valve sizes for all 289s from '63-'68: 1.45" ex and 1.78" intake. Even the hipo heads used those valves.  Same is true for the 302.  It wasn't until the 351w came out in '69 that Ford made larger valves for that engine family... 1.54" exhaust and 1.84" intake. I ran a set of those '69 351w heads on the 289 in my '66 Mustang drag car in the mid 70s...that was the "go to" old school upgrade back in those days. Taking it one step further, we/I put Chevy 1.60"/1.94" valves in those 351W heads.
> 
> What you can buy now, off the shelf, in comparison to what we used to hack together is amazing.
> 
> Sounds like someone did some upgrading to your engine along the way.


It had 1.94 intakes,  and I believe, 1.60 exhaust.

Push rods were a few hundredths of an inch longer too. 

I'm betting is was factory done as everything else seemed correct, sheets, marks etc. Right down to the rope seal.


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> It had 1.94 intakes,  and I believe, 1.60 exhaust.
> 
> Push rods were a few hundredths of an inch longer too.
> 
> I'm betting is was factory done as everything else seemed correct, sheets, marks etc. Right down to the rope seal.



Ford never made those valve sizes back then. Even the SK and XE experimental listings don't show them.  That's why we used the Chevy valves in the Ford heads.


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> Ford never made those valve sizes back then. Even the SK and XE experimental listings don't show them.  That's why we used the Chevy valves in the Ford heads.


I can only tell you that was what was in it. 

The car had a June 18 build date on the sheet and several strikethough lines where changes were made to the build.

I figured it was just a leftover frankencar.


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> I can only tell you that was what was in it.
> 
> The car had a June 18 build date on the sheet and several strikethough lines where changes were made to the build.
> 
> I figured it was just a leftover frankencar.



It would be worth a Franklin mint if it was an original hand-built prototype...especially one that's never even been rumored to have existed. Be like that '71 Boss 302...only rarer.  The only "similar" example I'm aware of was the rumored one-off 427 powered '65 or '66 Mustang. None of  those prototypes or experimentals were ever built in the regular factory production lines though, because that was flat-out impossible to do. The special vehicle guys had their own shop, own budgets and even their own special access to foundries to make one-off or low-production castings.


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> It would be worth a Franklin mint if it was an original hand-built prototype...especially one that's never even been rumored to have existed. Be like that '71 Boss 302...only rarer.  The only "similar" example I'm aware of was the rumored one-off 427 powered '65 or '66 Mustang. None of  those prototypes or experimentals were ever built in the regular factory production lines though, because that was flat-out impossible to do. The special vehicle guys had their own shop, own budgets and even their own special access to foundries to make one-off or low-production castings.


I dont' think it was a prototype, I'd bet it was thrown together with whatever leftover production crap they had to get it down the factory line. There was nothing special about the car as far as body, interior or accessories either.


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> I dont' think it was a prototype, I'd bet it was thrown together with whatever leftover production crap they had to get it down the factory line.


That they ever did that is a myth, first of all...and secondly, how could "they" do that with parts that never existed in Ford inventories...ever?


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## Kinnakeet

Gilligan said:


> Ford produced a mid-boggling array of cars, experimental engines, limited production racing components and other parts back in the 60s and up to about 1970.  That's what makes Ford stuff so fun..and challenging.


True but it could not match the ole chevy small block and big block motors


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## GURPS

Why ? 

The tags are right on the door jam, and the paperwork from Ford


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## Gilligan

JEFF69Z28 said:


> True but it could not match the ole chevy small block and big block motors



That must explain why Ford dominated the various racing venues back in the day ...with Chevy always a distant second.  Shelbys...GT40s...Cosworth Indy cars..and on and on.  ;-)  What does the Chevy equivalent of a a Ford 427 SOHC or Boss 429 look like? Oh...right..they never built anything like that.


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## GURPS

Gilligan said:


> or Boss 429 look like


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## GURPS




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## GURPS




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## Grumpy




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## Kinnakeet

Gilligan said:


> That must explain why Ford dominated the various racing venues back in the day ...with Chevy always a distant second.  Shelbys...GT40s...Cosworth Indy cars..and on and on.  ;-)  What does the Chevy equivalent of a a Ford 427 SOHC or Boss 429 look like? Oh...right..they never built anything like that.


Say what L88,ZL1, LS6 chevy didnt need a bunch of different motors like ford or the mopars they just used the same small blocks and big blocks and changed internals ever notice what is powering most drag cars!No one ever said I want to go fast so Im going to build a ford they just build a chevy motor dont get me wrong I love them all but for the money and the power it is chevy all the way. Im sorry but my friends that drag race some have fox body mustangs but the engine of choice you guessed it chevy if you dont believe me just go on down to MIR 1 evening and look for yourself


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## Kinnakeet

Grumpy said:


> View attachment 158984


There it is


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## Kinnakeet

GURPS said:


>


Huge intake ports that was fords way of making power great breathing heads moderate compression mild cam
Chevy used the 63 fuel injection vette heads(2.02 int/1.60 exh) on there high horsepower small block motor with high compression(11.01) and a large camshaft above 480 lift and 300 duration.big block high compression/big cam some were all aluminum blocks/heads some just aluminum heads but compression and cam in my opinion are the way to go and a good set of flowing heads will also go a long ways


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## Gilligan

JEFF69Z28 said:


> Say what L88,ZL1, LS6 chevy didnt need a bunch of different motors like ford or the mopars they just used the same small blocks and big blocks and changed internals ever notice what is powering most drag cars!No one ever said I want to go fast so Im going to build a ford they just build a chevy motor dont get me wrong I love them all but for the money and the power it is chevy all the way. Im sorry but my friends that drag race some have fox body mustangs but the engine of choice you guessed it chevy if you dont believe me just go on down to MIR 1 evening and look for yourself


I've been building performance engines and racing cars and offroad vehicles since the mid 70s. ;-)  I might even had been to MIR a few times..

Here's the most recent build...first saw action at Greer Raceway in South Carolina.  Ford FE engine, of course.


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## Gilligan

GURPS said:


>


Had a set of those...the tunnel port approach to intake design was found to be lacking and quickly abandoned (they tried it with the 302 as well as the 427s).  That makes those piece rare and expensive for the "cool" factor...


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## Gilligan

JEFF69Z28 said:


> Say what L88,ZL1, LS6 chevy didnt need a bunch of different motors like ford or the mopars they just used the same small blocks and big blocks and changed internals ever notice what is powering most drag cars!No one ever said I want to go fast so Im going to build a ford they just build a chevy motor dont get me wrong I love them all but for the money and the power it is chevy all the way. Im sorry but my friends that drag race some have fox body mustangs but the engine of choice you guessed it chevy if you dont believe me just go on down to MIR 1 evening and look for yourself



LOL...Yeah..Chevy got thoroughly spanked by the Shelbys for years.


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## Gilligan

It's also interesting to see the list of past winners of the annual Engine Masters competition..and how many Ford engines won the vintage category over the years.


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> I've been building performance engines and racing cars and offroad vehicles since the mid 70s. ;-)  I might even had been to MIR a few times..
> 
> Here's the most recent build...first saw action at Greer Raceway in South Carolina.  Ford FE engine, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 158990


1960?


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> 1960?


'63 Futura..


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> '63 Futura..


Always liked the early ones. 

I had a 66 & two 69s.


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## Gilligan

Not that I dislike Chevy engines...built some nice ones. The one in my '57 would be worth a small fortune now. All original '67 327-365HP pulled from a vette when new.  Pan to carb...all came with it.  That was one sweet running motor.


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## Gilligan

Kyle said:


> Always liked the early ones.
> 
> I had a 66 & two 69s.


That '63 is currently for sale, sans engine.


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## Kinnakeet

Gilligan said:


> LOL...Yeah..Chevy got thoroughly spanked by the Shelbys for years.


Now you are in dream land the shelby mustangs were not that fast they were all show and a little go I can see you are a ford person and cannot except the facts


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## Gilligan

JEFF69Z28 said:


> Now you are in dream land the shelby mustangs were not that fast they were all show and a little go I can see you are a ford person and cannot except the facts


The Mustangs were OK and some raced well..but I was referring to the AC Cobras.


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## Gilligan

JEFF69Z28 said:


> I can see you are a ford person and cannot except the facts


..or someone who has built performance engines of all shapes and sizes for over 40 years, some of those years while working as an automotive machinist, and still maintaining a machine shop of my own to this very day. ;-)


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## Kinnakeet

Gilligan said:


> It's also interesting to see the list of past winners of the annual Engine Masters competition..and how many Ford engines won the vintage category over the years.


Yes John Kaase? is a beast


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## Kinnakeet

Gilligan said:


> The Mustangs were OK and some raced well..but I was referring to the AC Cobras.


OK you cant mess with super light cars and those machines were bad to the bone Carroll Shelby and Smokey Yunick were the gurus back in the day


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## Gilligan

JEFF69Z28 said:


> OK you cant mess with super light cars and those machines were bad to the bone Carroll Shelby and Smokey Yunick were the gurus back in the day



Holman and Moody did some pretty amazing work with Ford engines too. I have this one on the stand in my shop, all rebuilt and ready to go back in a boat.


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## Gilligan

Another Holman Moody engine rebuilt in my shop and ready to go...


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## Kinnakeet

Gilligan said:


> Holman and Moody did some pretty amazing work with Ford engines too. I have this one on the stand in my shop, all rebuilt and ready to go back in a boat.
> 
> View attachment 158995


Nice I love them all I was raised on Chevy my Father had a 68 rs z/28,68 super bee iand still has a 68 gto 400 HO hurst dual gate turbo 400 picture is before restoration


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## Gilligan

I built this 1958 283 powerpack V8 and put it in a 1953 Chris Craft that I restored.  What a sweet combination that was.


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## Kinnakeet

AFTER RESTORATION


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## Kyle

Gilligan said:


> The Mustangs were OK and some raced well..but I was referring to the *AC Cobras.*


I've seen a Blue one running around the county from time to time but have never been close enough to see if it was real or a repro.


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## Kinnakeet

Kyle said:


> I've seen a Blue one running around the county from time to time but have never been close enough to see if it was real or a repro.


This car is numbers matching it was are family ride we traveled all over the country in it.
I drove it a week or so ago I could not imagine driving that car everyday no A/C 3.90 gear steering wheel about as thick as your pinky finger manuel brakes it has disk in the front drum in the rear but when you stomp it it gits it


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## Kinnakeet

Gilligan said:


> I built this 1958 283 powerpack V8 and put it in a 1953 Chris Craft that I restored.  What a sweet combination that was.
> View attachment 158998


283 /283 HP?


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## Gilligan

JEFF69Z28 said:


> 283 /283 HP?


It's been a  long time since I built that one, but I recall the HP being advertised closer to 225 or thereabouts with the single 4-barrel..  It was way more than the original flathead that came out of the boat, that's for sure  ;-)


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## GURPS

427 / 460 Ford
427 / 454 Chevy
383 / 440 / 426 Chrysler
400 / 455 Buick
455 Olds 
390 / 401 AMC

Any big block can get the job done


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## Kyle

GURPS said:


> 427 / 460 Ford
> 427 / 454 Chevy
> 383 / 440 / 426 Chrysler
> 400 / *455 Buick*
> 455 Olds
> 390 / 401 AMC
> 
> Any big block can get the job done



Bought a 70 Buick Estate for $100 way back in the day. it was equipped with a 455.


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## Gilligan

I had a 1964 Buick Riviera with the 425 Wildcat engine. That thing was a rocket ship from a 30 mph roll....  That engine was called the "465" because ot was advertised as putting out 465 ft-lbs of torque!


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## GURPS




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## Grumpy




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## Gilligan

GURPS said:


> View attachment 159000


And the Pantera.....can't ignore those..


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