# Food, Inc. - warning may ruin your dinner!



## Dakota

*I hope this was an okay place to put this topic*
(continued from another thread) 



vraiblonde said:


> I have a steak marinading in the fridge AND a rotisserie chicken I picked up Friday morning.  Not sure which I want, but I'll have it with corn and maybe some french bread or pasta.





Dakota said:


> I would suggest you never watch "Food, Inc."





Cowgirl said:


> No, everyone SHOULD watch it!  People need to be more informed of where our food comes from and how big corporations only care about lining their pockets and not providing nutritious food for us.   That way people can make informed decisions on what to buy and eat.





Dakota said:


> It is deeply disturbing and I have to say it is clearly an eye opening documentary.  I never knew they fed corn to cows but I do know that cows aren't meant to eat corn.  Soooo, it causes them to get a back-up of e-coli.  I wont go any further... you saw it... so you know!  But the tube thingy they put in their stomachs... like I said, I'm very deeply disturbed.  I saw the words _chicken_ and _steak_ and got nauseated.





vraiblonde said:


> Um, duh.  Anyone with half a brain knows that businesses exist to make money, not do charity work.
> 
> And my thanks to the Purdue people and the Birdseye people, not to mention the Shoppers Food Warehouse people, who provided me with this lovely meal this evening.





Dakota said:


> Enjoy!





Cowgirl said:


> It's a rumen cannula. It really doesn't affect them at all. They can lead a perfectly normal life with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Um, duh.    Of course corporations exist to make money, but when they go about it using unsafe methods, that's not right.  Did you know that in 1970 the USDA perfomed over 50,000 food safety inspections?  Did you know that in 2007 (or 08) they only performed just over 9,000?  Did you also know that our country won't shut down a processing facility even if they repeatedly get in trouble for having unsanitary conditions and occurrences of E. coli?  That is pathetic.  These corporations are largely allowed to police themselves.  We can see where that's getting us.  Food laced with E. coli isn't exactly something most people want to eat.  I'd rather not eat beef that's been fed animal byproducts or chicken that's been fed arsenic.





Natron0915 said:


> :shrug:  So don't eat it. I'll continue to live my life living in ignorance and eating yummy food, sorry.





Dakota said:


> I'm glad I heard you say it; for some reason, even after they said the same thing in the documentary, I just couldn't bring myself to believe it didn't.



Moved because we were ruining some people's dinner... This is a documentary I recently watched.


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## Dakota

After watching the documentary, I have to seriously wonder if this is what is causing obesity in America these days.  It seems reasonable to think that if they pump animals with growth hormones - and we eat the animals - well...

Anyway, if you are bored and snowed in, there are plenty of free online movie sites that will allow you to watch this and if you have a Netflix membership, you can instantly watch it.


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## rpexie

I watched it a few days ago... Im a vegetarian and have been so for almost 7 yrs. So I already knew alot of what was on the documentary.
However, It was disturbing to know one company owns all the seed though, and that farmers can't even keep their own seed. 
That means if you want to grow your own vegetables youre still growing their GMO from seed packs.
 The problem I have with watching alot of those documentaries is the feeling of hopelessness they leave you with. They open your eyes to all these issues then roll credits. There isnt much by the way of a solution and hell we have to eat!!


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## vraiblonde

rpexie said:


> The problem I have with watching alot of those documentaries is the feeling of hopelessness they leave you with. They open your eyes to all these issues then roll credits. There isnt much by the way of a solution and hell we have to eat!!



Which is why you shouldn't bother grossing yourself out over food.  It's obviously not killing us in droves, so fire up the grill, burn ya some steak and veggies and eat up!


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## Dakota

rpexie said:


> There isnt much by the way of a solution and hell we have to eat!!



Right... because it seemed everything was tainted for some reason or another. I doubt I will become a vegetarian and know that after I get over the shock value, I'll be back to eating steak and chicken - but I wont look at it the same way.  I do wonder, do the Amish pump up their livestock with hormones?


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## rpexie

I dont think the Amish use growth hormones. I dont know what they use as far as pesticides for their veggies but Im pretty sure their meats would qualify as organic. 

Worth finding out though.. I like to eat whats local whenever I can.


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## Dakota

rpexie said:


> I dont think the Amish use growth hormones. I dont know what they use as far as pesticides for their veggies but Im pretty sure their meats would qualify as organic.
> 
> Worth finding out though.. I like to eat whats local whenever I can.



What are "whats"? I have never heard of that... And I intend to check with the Amish.    In fact, during the summer, I buy frequently from them.


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## rpexie

whats local.. hmm.. I eat what's local. I buy what's on sale?

probably a southern saying. Maybe I should say "I like to eat whatever is local when I can."   

at any rate.. I do.


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## itsbob

Throughout this film, Food, Inc.:

■Demonizes American farmers and the agriculture system responsible for feeding over 300 million people in the United States. 
■Presents an unrealistic view of how to feed a growing nation while ignoring the practical demands of the American consumer and the fundamental needs of consumers around the world.
■Disregards the fact that multiple agriculture systems should – and do – coexist.


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## itsbob

I saw a special on Discovery where they were in a Perdue chicken factory.  MASSIVE factory, clean rooms, seperations between rooms, and they were VERY careful about contamination from one room to another.  

What got me the most was the UNENDING testing by lab workers that come through and swab work surfaces, carcasses, and people to look for e-coli and a multitude of other bacteria and contaminants. (Personally I think there is  bigger chance of contamination from dirty humans than dirty poultry).

EVERY night they tear down all their equipment clean it, and re-inspect every piece before they put it back together for the morning shift.

Did Food Inc show any of that?


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## rpexie

Well I didnt agree with all of the film but I do think its unsettling, farmers have little to no control over their own farms any more... I mean many of them even said they wished they could talk about their concerns but were afraid of the repercussions. I dont think the farmers themselves were really being attacked so much as Monsanto. 
I think its a good thing to open the lines of communication about why vegetables and healthy foods are so costly while unhealthy food is so affordable, or can we really afford to eat healthy?


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## rpexie

itsbob said:


> I saw a special on Discovery where they were in a Perdue chicken factory.  MASSIVE factory, clean rooms, seperations between rooms, and they were VERY careful about contamination from one room to another.
> 
> What got me the most was the UNENDING testing by lab workers that come through and swab work surfaces, carcasses, and people to look for e-coli and a multitude of other bacteria and contaminants. (Personally I think there is  bigger chance of contamination from dirty humans than dirty poultry).
> 
> EVERY night they tear down all their equipment clean it, and re-inspect every piece before they put it back together for the morning shift.
> 
> Did Food Inc show any of that?



I believe I saw something about Perdue having the best facilities and it was Tyson that raised concerns about conditions. If it gets people researching where their food comes from its probably a good thing. I think most people that would watch Food Inc. and things like that dont usually take things as being 100% true at face value anyway.


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## morningbell

rpexie said:


> Well I didnt agree with all of the film but I do think its unsettling, farmers have little to no control over their own farms any more... I mean many of them even said they wished they could talk about their concerns but were afraid of the repercussions. I dont think the farmers themselves were really being attacked so much as Monsanto.
> I think its a good thing to open the lines of communication about why vegetables and healthy foods are so costly while unhealthy food is so affordable, or* can we really afford to eat healthy?*



Can we afford to be sick?  Either we pay now or pay later with obesity related illnesses, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart disease....  
You are what you eat.


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## rpexie

morningbell said:


> Can we afford to be sick?  Either we pay now or pay later with obesity related illnesses, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart disease....
> You are what you eat.



I agree. Im reiterating what the film was asking, how Obesity is on the rise, and people look for a solution but many people especially the poor cant afford healthy or organic food.

Personally, my grocery bill always sucks because I buy so many vegetables/organic things. Not to mention, having to shop at different places to complete my shopping. Im looking forward to the summer and local produce.


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## Dakota

itsbob said:


> I saw a special on Discovery where they were in a Perdue chicken factory.  MASSIVE factory, clean rooms, seperations between rooms, and they were VERY careful about contamination from one room to another.
> 
> What got me the most was the UNENDING testing by lab workers that come through and swab work surfaces, carcasses, and people to look for e-coli and a multitude of other bacteria and contaminants. (Personally I think there is  bigger chance of contamination from dirty humans than dirty poultry).
> 
> EVERY night they tear down all their equipment clean it, and re-inspect every piece before they put it back together for the morning shift.
> 
> Did Food Inc show any of that?



No, they asked all the major players for an interview and tour, but they all declined.  They were only able to get 1 chicken farmer to give a tour and interview.  They did go into how chickens have been genetically engineered to grow faster and larger in a shorter amount of time to get them to the slaughter house sooner.  And since most prefer white meat than dark meat, they were able to get more white meat out of the chicken by genetically altering them.  The result, the chicken's internal organs begin to shut down and since the breast now grows so large, they cannot walk but a few steps before falling over and are not generally healthy most of their life.  Then, we consumers eat those chickens. 

And just an F.Y.I., this was not some anti-meat documentary, at least not to me.  The documentary focused more time on the corn and soybean industries and the Monsanto monopoly.  It also discussed the government's roles and how those in power positions placed there by the government do indeed have a direct interest in the food industry.   

I think you’d really enjoy watching it Bob.


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## vraiblonde

itsbob said:


> Throughout this film, Food, Inc.:
> 
> ■Demonizes American farmers and the agriculture system responsible for feeding over 300 million people in the United States.
> ■Presents an unrealistic view of how to feed a growing nation while ignoring the practical demands of the American consumer and the fundamental needs of consumers around the world.
> ■Disregards the fact that multiple agriculture systems should – and do – coexist.



The comment was made that "it seemed everything was tainted for some reason or another."  That should be your first clue that this is a propaganda piece and not to be taken seriously.  Any bonehead with a video camera can make a "documentary" and say whatever they want, regardless of whether it's true.  Look at Michael Moore.


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## morningbell

rpexie said:


> I agree. Im reiterating what the film was asking, how Obesity is on the rise, and people look for a solution but many people especially the poor cant afford healthy or organic food.
> 
> Personally, my grocery bill always sucks because I buy so many vegetables/organic things. Not to mention, having to shop at different places to complete my shopping. Im looking forward to the summer and local produce.



It is quite annoying especially living down here and I too am looking forward to the growing season


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## Cowgirl

My take on the movie is that it wasn't so much about how the actual food was grown, but more about how the same large corporations are controlling everything.  We can thank McDonald's for controlling the way beef, pork, potatoes, and several other things are grown.  The head of the FDA was the CEO of one of the largest food corporations.  Many of the politicians in the USDA or FDA were in big with food corporations.  

It's perfectly legal in this country to "clean" meat filler with ammonia, and many slaughter houses that are repeat offenders for unsanitary conditions are immune to any repercussions, yet it's illegal for a perfectly clean dairy to sell raw milk in many states.  What's wrong with this picture?

The grain industry (corn, soybeans, what) is SO subsidized that it is more affordable for the average American to eat food that is horrible for you than it is to eat healthy food.  Why are we saving money on the food we eat only to pay more costs to doctors to keep us healthy?  

The movie wasn't so much made to make everyone afraid to eat, it was made to make people aware of the food industry and how it's controlled.  I never felt like it demonized the American farmer. I actually think it did the opposite.  Farmers are just trying to make money, but they're pretty much controlled by the huge corporations that dictate their business.


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## forceofnature

Yes the movie was biased against the big corporations controling the food market.

It may cost more but we buy organic, and balance the cost by eating a little less per meal.


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## toppick08

I love to see a hog eat a chicken..........:crunch:..


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## Cowgirl

toppick08 said:


> I love to see a hog eat a chicken..........:crunch:..



And hogs are omnivores, so that isn't a big deal. I've never seen a cow eat another animal on it's own.


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## vraiblonde

Cowgirl said:


> I've never seen a cow eat another animal on it's own.



Maybe you just don't know the right cows.

On that note, mmmmm!  I just had the most delicious steak.  Medium rare.  I don't know if it's the animal byproduct or the HGH or what, but my! that was a tasty cow!


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## toppick08

Cowgirl said:


> And hogs are omnivores, so that isn't a big deal. I've never seen a cow eat another animal on it's own.



I've seen them eat pig livers......:shrug:


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## Cowgirl

toppick08 said:


> I've seen them eat pig livers......:shrug:



You are totally missing the point.


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## toppick08

Cowgirl said:


> You are totally missing the point.



ok...I'll pull out.


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## Shawn

the agencies that handle food and pharmaceuitical drugs in the U.S. are among the worst and most corrupt agencies that there are or ever have been


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## itsbob

Cowgirl said:


> My take on the movie is that it wasn't so much about how the actual food was grown, but more about how the same large corporations are controlling everything.  We can thank McDonald's for controlling the way beef, pork, potatoes, and several other things are grown.  The head of the FDA was the CEO of one of the largest food corporations.  Many of the politicians in the USDA or FDA were in big with food corporations.
> 
> It's perfectly legal in this country to "clean" meat filler with ammonia, and many slaughter houses that are repeat offenders for unsanitary conditions are immune to any repercussions, yet it's illegal for a perfectly clean dairy to sell raw milk in many states.  What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> The grain industry (corn, soybeans, what) is SO subsidized that it is more affordable for the average American to eat food that is horrible for you than it is to eat healthy food.  Why are we saving money on the food we eat only to pay more costs to doctors to keep us healthy?
> 
> The movie wasn't so much made to make everyone afraid to eat, it was made to make people aware of the food industry and how it's controlled.  I never felt like it demonized the American farmer. I actually think it did the opposite.  Farmers are just trying to make money, but they're pretty much controlled by the huge corporations that dictate their business.



Interesting.. I thought the Mormon church owned one of, if not the biggest cattle ranches (beef) and grain, wheat, barley and corn farms and storage facilities..


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## gary_webb

toppick08 said:


> I love to see a hog eat a chicken..........:crunch:..



Do the chickens have large talons?


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## jetmonkey

Cowgirl said:


> And hogs are omnivores, so that isn't a big deal. I've never seen a cow eat another animal on it's own.



I've seen a cow eat a chicken :shrug:


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## itsbob

jetmonkey said:


> I've seen a cow eat a chicken :shrug:



How often do you go to KFC at Lunch Time??

I find it really HOT when they get the chicken grease all the way up to their elbows, and dripping off of the chins.. and going in for the next bite when their mouth is still full of Mashed Potatos and Gravy.. 

:sexyhot:


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## Nickel

Has anyone read "In Defense of Food" and "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan?  I've been trying to get my hands on them but they're always checked out at the library. 

I haven't seen Food Inc yet because I'm afraid there will be some images that will scar me for life.   I can't even watch Gordon Ramsay's The F Word (and I LOVE Gordon) because every time I turn it on he's slaughtering a pig or something.


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## Cowgirl

Nickel said:


> Has anyone read "In Defense of Food" and "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan?  I've been trying to get my hands on them but they're always checked out at the library.



I know!!!  I've been on the wait list for O.D. for WEEKS and I'm still not up yet.  



> I haven't seen Food Inc yet because I'm afraid there will be some images that will scar me for life.   I can't even watch Gordon Ramsay's The F Word (and I LOVE Gordon) because every time I turn it on he's slaughtering a pig or something.



I'm trying to remember, but I can't think of much that was too graphic.  They do show some nasty beef filler that will make you never want to eat any fast food or pre-formed hamburger patties.


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## Nickel

Cowgirl said:


> I know!!!  I've been on the wait list for O.D. for WEEKS and I'm still not up yet.


I just noticed that Amazon has them for $7 and $8 so I might just buy them and pass them around the family when I'm done.  For the past six months I've felt like making some major changes in the food I eat, but it seems a little daunting.  I need a kick in the pants. 


> I'm trying to remember, but I can't think of much that was too graphic.  They do show some nasty beef filler that will make you never want to eat any fast food or pre-formed hamburger patties.


Gross.


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## vraiblonde

This thread makes me want a Big Mac, fries and a shake.


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## Nickel

vraiblonde said:


> This thread makes me want a Big Mac, fries and a shake.


I had a milkshake today.  It was good.


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## Cowgirl

vraiblonde said:


> This thread makes me want a Big Mac, fries and a shake.



So go to McD's!


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## Nickel

Cowgirl said:


> I'm trying to remember, but I can't think of much that was too graphic.  They do show some nasty beef filler that will make you never want to eat any fast food or pre-formed hamburger patties.


Okay, I watched it.  Some of it I took with a grain of salt, but overall very informative.  I really liked the farmer with suspenders  - he and his family really seemed to enjoy what they were doing and it was paying off for them.


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## Cowgirl

Nickel said:


> Okay, I watched it.  Some of it I took with a grain of salt, but overall very informative.  I really liked the farmer with suspenders  - he and his family really seemed to enjoy what they were doing and it was paying off for them.



Joel. Yeah, he's very enthusiastic.


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## Nickel

itsbob said:


> I saw a special on Discovery where they were in a Perdue chicken factory.  MASSIVE factory, clean rooms, seperations between rooms, and they were VERY careful about contamination from one room to another.
> 
> What got me the most was the UNENDING testing by lab workers that come through and swab work surfaces, carcasses, and people to look for e-coli and a multitude of other bacteria and contaminants. (Personally I think there is  bigger chance of contamination from dirty humans than dirty poultry).
> 
> EVERY night they tear down all their equipment clean it, and re-inspect every piece before they put it back together for the morning shift.
> 
> Did Food Inc show any of that?


In regards to the chickens, the main issue they raised was the treatment of the birds before they got to the factory (they're raised in the dark and never see daylight) and the genetic engineering of the birds that are being raised for the major food corporations.  And that doesn't bother some people, which is fine.  To each his own.


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## Cowgirl

Nickel said:


> In regards to the chickens, the main issue they raised was the treatment of the birds before they got to the factory (they're raised in the dark and never see daylight) and the genetic engineering of the birds that are being raised for the major food corporations.  And that doesn't bother some people, which is fine.  To each his own.



I raised broilers last year, but I didn't raise nearly enough.  I do buy chicken, but I hate that I have to.  This summer I plan on raising enough to last until next summer.  

I understand that chicken houses are probably necessary, but they're so disgusting.  When you walk into them the stench almost knocks you over.    Farmers have to wear respirators to do their daily walk-throughs.  It's no wonder why chickens have to be fed antibiotics daily just so they can survive the 6-8 weeks before they're slaughtered.


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## toppick08

Cowgirl said:


> I raised broilers last year, but I didn't raise nearly enough.  I do buy chicken, but I hate that I have to.  This summer I plan on raising enough to last until next summer.
> 
> I understand that chicken houses are probably necessary, but they're so disgusting.  When you walk into them the stench almost knocks you over.    Farmers have to wear respirators to do their daily walk-throughs.  It's no wonder why chickens have to be fed antibiotics daily just so they can survive the 6-8 weeks before they're slaughtered.



Cleanout days are so fun...


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## Nickel

Cowgirl said:


> I raised broilers last year, but I didn't raise nearly enough.  I do buy chicken, but I hate that I have to.  This summer I plan on raising enough to last until next summer.


We have an organic market in town that stocks Amish raised chickens and 100% grass fed beef from the closest farms they can find.  I plan on stopping by today to check out their selection and prices.


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## Cowgirl

toppick08 said:


> Cleanout days are so fun...



I'd been on many chicken farms and smelled the crap coming out of the fans, but the first time I actually went into a house (and my boss was there with me), I walked in and said, "Oh f***."  I couldn't help it, it just came out.  The smell was terrible.  I've since been inside houses other times, and I'm more prepared now so I don't let anything slip.


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## kermitt

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=VklqYW5ocWuRpS3FWQzQ&meet-your-meat


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## jazz lady

Cowgirl said:


> They do show some nasty beef filler that will make you never want to eat any fast food or pre-formed hamburger patties.


Interesting.    I wound up in the ER last week after eating a pre-formed raw hamburger patty that I had cooked for a late lunch.  Within a couple of hours, I had massive amounts of hives and rashes all over my body and I've NEVER had that reaction before.  Kudos to St. Mary's Hospital and their FastTrack system for getting me in quickly and treating me with steroids to stop the reaction dead in its tracks.  

I've been trying to track down the culprit for what caused such a reaction in my body but according to the package, it was just ground beef.  Yeah, right.    Those who know me know I rarely buy anything prepackaged due to my reactions to MSG and chemicals in general, but I thought I was safe with something I thought was just ground beef already formed into patties.  Silly me.


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## Nickel

jazz lady said:


> Interesting.    I wound up in the ER last week after eating a pre-formed raw hamburger patty that I had cooked for a late lunch.  Within a couple of hours, I had massive amounts of hives and rashes all over my body and I've NEVER had that reaction before.  Kudos to St. Mary's Hospital and their FastTrack system for getting me in quickly and treating me with steroids to stop the reaction dead in its tracks.
> 
> I've been trying to track down the culprit for what caused such a reaction in my body but according to the package, it was just ground beef.  Yeah, right.    Those who know me know I rarely buy anything prepackaged due to my reactions to MSG and chemicals in general, but I thought I was safe with something I thought was just ground beef already formed into patties.  Silly me.


In the movie the company that provided the filler "washed" it with ammonia first, and they were very up front about it. 

Glad you're feeling better.


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## jazz lady

Nickel said:


> In the movie the company that provided the filler "washed" it with ammonia first, and they were very up front about it.


Nice.    The patties I bought were from Food Lion but were packaged by a meat packaging plant in Green Bay, WI.  So far my research has shown this company has had problems in the past with Salmonella contamination and other things.  



> Glad you're feeling better.


Thanks.    Believe me, and to the folks who saw the reaction or I showed the picture I took of it, we're ALL relieved.    It was very scary and not something I EVER want to repeat again.


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## Cowgirl

jazz lady said:


> Interesting.    I wound up in the ER last week after eating a pre-formed raw hamburger patty that I had cooked for a late lunch.  Within a couple of hours, I had massive amounts of hives and rashes all over my body and I've NEVER had that reaction before.  Kudos to St. Mary's Hospital and their FastTrack system for getting me in quickly and treating me with steroids to stop the reaction dead in its tracks.




Whoa! Glad you're on the mend!


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## Nickel

jazz lady said:


> Nice.    The patties I bought were from Food Lion but were packaged by a meat packaging plant in Green Bay, WI.  So far my research has shown this company has had problems in the past with Salmonella contamination and other things.


The name of the company is Beef Products Inc, and a quick google search shows that even meat treated with the ammonia has tested positive for salmonella and e coli.  According to them, 70% of the burgers in the US contains their filler.  What I can't seem to find out is whether or not that's 70% of ground beef, or just preformed patties.


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## jazz lady

Nickel said:


> The name of the company is Beef Products Inc, and a quick google search shows that even meat treated with the ammonia has tested positive for salmonella and e coli.  According to them, 70% of the burgers in the US contains their filler.  What I can't seem to find out is whether or not that's 70% of ground beef, or just preformed patties.



Thanks.  I went to their website and was that ever eye opening!

The basic process behind BPI's product



> At this point, the lean trim may be treated with a pH enhancement process that forms ammonium hydroxide in the finished product. Ammonium hydroxide is a natural constituent of meat, GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe) approved by the FDA, and used in other foods such as baked goods, cheeses, gelatins, and puddings. In two independent process validation studies conducted by Iowa State University and National Food Laboratory, Inc., the BPI process1 eliminated all E.coliO157:H7 in the inoculated product, as well as producing significant reductions of Salmonella and Listeria monocytogenes. The pH enhanced product is marketed as BPI® Boneless Lean Beef Trimmings. BPI® Boneless Lean Beef Trimmings are approved for unrestricted use in ground beef and hamburger with no labeling restrictions other than beef.



Better living through chemistry.


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## Nucklesack

rpexie said:


> I dont think the Amish use growth hormones. I dont know what they use as far as pesticides for their veggies but Im pretty sure their meats would qualify as organic.
> 
> Worth finding out though.. I like to eat whats local whenever I can.



Ahh "Organic" .... started out with noble intentions, but has become the great scam

Do you know what is still allowed for a farm that carries the Certified Organic permit?

Livestock could be fed 20 percent nonorganic feed, yet still be labeled organic. 
Genetically engineered organisms could be allowed. 
Irradiated foods are not prohibited. 
The rules about animal confinement and the use of antibiotics are lax. 
Municipal sludge containing heavy metals and other toxic wastes could be used as organic compost.
Link


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## Cowgirl

Nucklesack said:


> Ahh "Organic" .... started out with noble intentions, but has become the great scam
> 
> Do you know what is still allowed for a farm that carries the Certified Organic permit?
> 
> Livestock could be fed 20 percent nonorganic feed, yet still be labeled organic.
> Genetically engineered organisms could be allowed.
> Irradiated foods are not prohibited.
> The rules about animal confinement and the use of antibiotics are lax.
> Municipal sludge containing heavy metals and other toxic wastes could be used as organic compost.
> Link



Please link to exactly where you found the above information, not just the general website.  It's my understanding that the rules have not changed with the 20% conventional feed only allowed during the first 9 months of transition from conventional to organic.  Where does it say GMO orgnanisms (and which organisms?) are allowed?  Antibiotics use is NOT lax at all, I'm not sure where you're getting that information.


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## Nucklesack

Cowgirl said:


> Please link to exactly where you found the above information, not just the general website.  It's my understanding that the rules have not changed with the 20% conventional feed only allowed during the first 9 months of transition from conventional to organic.  Where does it say GMO orgnanisms (and which organisms?) are allowed?  Antibiotics use is NOT lax at all, I'm not sure where you're getting that information.



The information came from the USDA site on what is allowed.  

Why dont you post your references that refute it?  

To help you, here is the list of allowed materials, while still maintaining the "organic" label

See if you notice which list (allowed vs prohibited) is longer on the Synthetic lists


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## Cowgirl

Nucklesack said:


> The information came from the USDA site on what is allowed.
> 
> Why dont you post your references that refute it?
> 
> To help you, here is the list of allowed materials, while still maintaining the "organic" label
> 
> See if you notice which list (allowed vs prohibited) is longer on the Synthetic lists



Well, I can tell you I do have firsthand experience working on an organic dairy. NO antibiotics were allowed unless that animal was getting sold and leaving the farm ASAP.  NO non-organic feedstuffs were allowed.  My friend and coworker has an organic vegetable farm and she's not allowed to plant any seeds that are GMO.  

I looked through the list you linked and did not see a single antibiotic.

And I hope you don't think that's the total list of prohibited substances.  If you look at the petitioned substance database, you'll find many more products that are prohibited.


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## pixiegirl

I don't understand why it seems that people who have no concern what they consume have such heartburn with people who do care openly discussing it.  If people want to eat $hit on a stick that's their choice but don't look down your fat nose at other people because they don't.   

I don't eat "only" organic or naturally grown food but I do try to watch what goes into my body.  I've been doing it for years because with frequent headaches a doctor suggested a limited diet to try to determine if diet was a contributing factor.  When I started eating better I started feeling better.

I don't think additives and such are so much the problem in this country as portions and lack of balance are.  I couldn't eat a whole Big Mac if you paid me to much less a Big Mac and fries.  I've seen women twice my weight eat that plus more.  Your empty stomach should be the size of your first and it's not designed to stretch to 4 times its original size.  

Balance is terribly important as well.  I'll eat fast food on occasion when things get super busy at work but I usually also have healthy snacks at my desk including always having some kind of fresh fruit.  If I eat junk for lunch I eat really well for dinner.  If I'm feeling crappy and realize I haven't been eating great I'll have a salad for a meal.


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## Nickel

pixiegirl said:


> I don't understand why it seems that people who have no concern what they consume have such heartburn with people who do care openly discussing it.


Thank you!!!


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## rpexie

*"I don't understand why it seems that people who have no concern what they consume have such heartburn with people who do care openly discussing it.  If people want to eat $hit on a stick that's their choice but don't look down your fat nose at other people because they don't.  "*


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## Nickel

Cowgirl said:


> I know!!!  I've been on the wait list for O.D. for WEEKS and I'm still not up yet.


Do you have it yet? 

I'm not too far into it.  The Introduction sucks you in, but the beginning (the history of corn ) is pretty boring, IMO.  I'm just getting into the ramifications of feeding corn to cows and it's getting really interesting.  Nobody I know cares very much, so I'm just jotting down little notes (ex: "WTF?!?!"  ) in the margins so that when I send it to my brother and his wife we can discuss it.


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## Cowgirl

Nickel said:


> Do you have it yet?
> 
> I'm not too far into it.  The Introduction sucks you in, but the beginning (the history of corn ) is pretty boring, IMO.  I'm just getting into the ramifications of feeding corn to cows and it's getting really interesting.  Nobody I know cares very much, so I'm just jotting down little notes (ex: "WTF?!?!"  ) in the margins so that when I send it to my brother and his wife we can discuss it.



Yes! I've had it for a few weeks.  I agree with everything you said. The thing in the intro that I found very interesting is how he said we're a nation obsessed with health and eating healthily, but we're one of the unhealthiest ones!   

Yeah, the history of corn was kinda boring, but it really aggrivated me to learn about how bass ackwards the corn industry is....in a flooded market you don't produce MORE!  That causes all the problems with them needing to use the corn, so it winds up in SO many food products, ethanol, etc.!   

The feedlot section is also maddening.  They could easily prevent something like 80% of  E. coli in beef if they'd just feed them hay for a couple days prior to slaughter.  But no, that'd be too easy so instead they just wash the meat with ammonia.  

I haven't read it in a few weeks because things have been crazy busy, but I'll start again soon!


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## Nickel

Cowgirl said:


> Yes! I've had it for a few weeks.  I agree with everything you said. The thing in the intro that I found very interesting is how he said we're a nation obsessed with health and eating healthily, but we're one of the unhealthiest ones!


Yes!  


> Yeah, the history of corn was kinda boring, but it really aggrivated me to learn about how bass ackwards the corn industry is....in a flooded market you don't produce MORE!  That causes all the problems with them needing to use the corn, so it winds up in SO many food products, ethanol, etc.!


Yes!  I kept wondering how the heck we got so far into it that we have this huge surplus.  Did nobody think to say "Hey man, start growing some cucumbers or something instead"? 


> The feedlot section is also maddening.  They could easily prevent something like 80% of  E. coli in beef if they'd just feed them hay for a couple days prior to slaughter.  But no, that'd be too easy so instead they just wash the meat with ammonia.


_That_ infuriated me.  They're jumping through hoops to find ways to keep these cows alive while they're feeding them corn, but if they'd just not feed them crap none of those problems would exist.  And feeding beef blood and fat to cows is just disgusting.


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## Cowgirl

Nickel said:


> Yes!  I kept wondering how the heck we got so far into it that we have this huge surplus.  Did nobody think to say "Hey man, start growing some cucumbers or something instead"?



I know!!!    And it was interesting how yields were so low until after the war when they needed something to do with all the ammonium nitrate.  Then yields went through the roof and everything went to hell. :sad:



> _That_ infuriated me.  They're jumping through hoops to find ways to keep these cows alive while they're feeding them corn, but if they'd just not feed them crap none of those problems would exist.  And feeding beef blood and fat to cows is just disgusting.



I KNOW!!!   And feeding chicken litter to them.  I'm sorry, but do you ever see buffalo eating chicken shiat and wood shavings and feather bits?  Gross!  PLUS, they feed beef protein to chickens!!!!  What the hell sense does that make?  

I'm getting worked up.  UGH.  I feel like if society knew all this, there would be MAJOR changes to the way things are done.  And, I feel like most farmers have no clue about the backwards corn market.  I mean, I'm sure they know there's lots of corn, but do they know why?


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