# Question for the men...



## CityGrl

Ok guys, a serious question for the men:

My girlfriend (note: this is NOT me) has placed her profile on eHarmony.  At first, she didn't include her picture.  She ended up meeting a guy on there and they exchanged emails.  He asked for her picture and she sent it to him, never to be heard from again. 

Now, please note: my friend is rather large (not huge, but overweight).  Since then, she has posted her picture on eHarmony so that "everything" is out there in public.  The thing is, she's a really great woman with a beautiful smile and good personality.  She's in her mid-30s and is looking for a man to settle down with.

Here's my question: are men (even in their mid-30s) so superficial that looks mean EVERYTHING?  You figure that single men in their 30s are probably looking for the same thing as my friend (commitment, settling down) and realize that the choices are thinning out (choice word, huh?   ) as they get older.  I'm not saying that the guy has to settle on a "fatty," but why not give someone like my friend a "second glance" before passing her up just because she is overweight?

Am I way off here?    Are guys really only focused on looks?  Maybe I'm too naive...


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## BuddyLee

This sounds like a job for DoWhat and DoWhat alone.


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## K_Jo

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> This sounds like a job for DoWhat and DoWhat alone.


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## CityGrl

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> This sounds like a job for DoWhat and DoWhat alone.



BL, your opinion is not valid based solely on your age.


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## BuddyLee

CityGrl said:
			
		

> BL, your opinion is not valid based solely on your age.


That's why I heaved it all towards DoWhat.


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## otter

She shouldn't worry about it, anyone that would end communication because of looks isn't worth knowing. She found out quick that he wasn't worth it. It works both ways, some women are just as focused on looks.


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## Mikeinsmd

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Ok guys, a serious question for the men:
> 
> Here's my question: are men (even in their mid-30s) so superficial that looks mean EVERYTHING?
> 
> Are guys really only focused on looks?  Maybe I'm too naive...


Yes.  But we don't want an airhead or a prima donna either....


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## K_Jo

otter said:
			
		

> She shouldn't worry about it, anyone that would end communication because of looks isn't worth knowing. She found out quick that he wasn't worth it. It works both ways, some women are just as focused on looks.


 You sweet, sensitive little rodent.


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## migtig

I'm not a man but here's my take - there has to be some kind of physical attraction for everything to click into place.  If you don't find the person pleasing to you visually / physically then anything more than casual emails is a foolish fantasy.  Tell her not to give up hope, that there are plenty of folks out there who will be attracted to her, and those will be the ones that she will have a better chance of getting to know for the long term.   However, also remember, nobody is desperate and nobody can force themselves to be attracted to someone their not just because they want a relationship.  If they did, they would just be lying to themselves and their partner and the relationship would sour anyway.  JMO


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## czygvtwkr

Might not be the place to look for a threesome.


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## CityGrl

Interesting responses...keep 'em coming!


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## CityGrl

On a completely different note, it's amazing how different the online dating world is.  You can be talking to someone and then BAM! it's over.


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## jazz lady

otter said:
			
		

> She shouldn't worry about it, anyone that would end communication because of looks isn't worth knowing. She found out quick that he wasn't worth it. It works both ways, some women are just as focused on looks.


  I just fell in love with you all over again.


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## virgovictoria

otter said:
			
		

> She shouldn't worry about it, anyone that would end communication because of looks isn't worth knowing. She found out quick that he wasn't worth it. It works both ways, some women are just as focused on looks.


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## Kizzy

CityGrl said:
			
		

> On a completely different note, it's amazing how different the online dating world is.  You can be talking to someone and then BAM! it's over.




Or never meet them and BAM, your a stalker.   


Otter  Nice post!


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## CityGrl

Kizzy said:
			
		

> Or never meet them and BAM, your a stalker.
> 
> 
> Otter  Nice post!



Why is it this immediately reminds me of "I don't want relationship, I just want..."


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## brownjunk

I met my wife online in '97 sight unseen. We talked for awhile then met for a date.

We just had our 7th anniversary, and have two kids.

We both took a chance, but if we hadn't we might have never found the right person.

There are guys out there, and your friend should be happy she has weeded out the jack*ss now instead of when she is emotionally involved.


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## morganj614

There has to be an emotional bond as well as a physical attraction. If you don't find someone as pleasing to the eye as to the brain then it is hopeless. Even though, there are instances where the mental thing makes the physical thing not as important.
 I have to say she needed to put her picture right out there. I would be very wary of someone who sees what I look like but won't let me see them. That would seem like they were hiding something.
The E-Harmony commercials make it sound like they hook people up on all levels of compatibility and she needs to get her picture and herself out there.


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## CityGrl

brownjunk said:
			
		

> I met my wife online in '97 sight unseen. We talked for awhile then met for a date.
> 
> We just had our 7th anniversary, and have two kids.
> 
> We both took a chance, but if we hadn't we might have never found the right person.
> 
> There are guys out there, and your friend should be happy she has weeded out the jack*ss now instead of when she is emotionally involved.


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## CityGrl

morganj614 said:
			
		

> There has to be an emotional bond as well as a physical attraction. If you don't find someone as pleasing to the eye as to the brain then it is hopeless. Even though, there are instances where the mental thing makes the physical thing not as important.
> I have to say she needed to put her picture right out there. I would be very wary of someone who sees what I look like but won't let me see them. That would seem like they were hiding something.
> The E-Harmony commercials make it sound like they hook people up on all levels of compatibility and she needs to get her picture and herself out there.



I agree...I've used the dating websites (including eHarmony) and feel the only way to utilize those sites fully is to put your "whole self" out there and not hold anything back.  Otherwise, you're just wasting your time and your $$$.


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## Mikeinsmd

morganj614 said:
			
		

> There has to be an emotional bond as well as a physical attraction. If you don't find someone as pleasing to the eye as to the brain then it is hopeless. Even though, there are instances where the mental thing makes the physical thing not as important.
> I have to say she needed to put her picture right out there. I would be very wary of someone who sees what I look like but won't let me see them. That would seem like they were hiding something.
> The E-Harmony commercials make it sound like they hook people up on all levels of compatibility and she needs to get her picture and herself out there.


Well put!!!


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## SmallTown

CityGrl said:
			
		

> I agree...I've used the dating websites (including eHarmony) and feel the only way to utilize those sites fully is to put your "whole self" out there and not hold anything back. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time and your $$$.


should I give you those nudie pics for you to put on your profile


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## CityGrl

SmallTown said:
			
		

> should I give you those nudie pics for you to put on your profile



No reason to, I'm not on there anymore.


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## morganj614

Mikeinsmd said:
			
		

> Well put!!!



 <----expert, I have some success stories but more horror stories..Hmmm, good for conversation on Monday nights


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## Mikeinsmd

SmallTown said:
			
		

> should I give you those nudie pics for you to put on your profile


Please email to me.......


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## CityGrl

Mikeinsmd said:
			
		

> Please email to me.......


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## RoseRed

Very good comments from Otter, Mig, Brownjunk, & Morgan.  

I am too chicken to join one of those or put my picture out.  But then again, I am not really looking to become unsingle again.  I suppose the right guy will show up eventually.


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## SmallTown

Mikeinsmd said:
			
		

> Please email to me.......


what's it worth to ya?


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## CityGrl

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Very good comments from Otter, Mig, Brownjunk, & Morgan.
> 
> I am too chicken to join one of those or put my picture out.  But then again, I am not really looking to become unsingle again.  I suppose the right guy will show up eventually.



Would highly recommend eHarmony just because it's not a meat market...


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## RoseRed

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Would highly recommend eHarmony just because it's not a meat market...


Thanks I'll keep that in mind.  I am not hard to look at, but I seem to attract some real weirdos.


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## CityGrl

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Thanks I'll keep that in mind.  I am not hard to look at, but I seem to attract some real weirdos.



I've been there...

:smalltown:

Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     for ST....


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## Ken King

There are guys out there that won't settle for anything less then drop-dead gorgeous and then there are others seeking a woman three-foot tall, a flat head, pistol-grip ears and fold-back teeth.  The spectrum is wide open and like with most things good you stumble into them when you aren’t really looking.  eHarmony might hook her up or she might meet someone via a different means, who knows.  But as said if the guy knocked off communications after seeing her picture he wasn’t what she was wanting to begin with.


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## SmallTown

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Thanks I'll keep that in mind. I am not hard to look at, but I seem to attract some real weirdos.


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## RoseRed

I guess I am picky too.  If I can't see myself with the guy, why bother.  I don't want to go on a date with someone I am not attracted to, just to go out on a date.  To me, that seems like using someone.

I have friends to go hang out with or I go out on my own.


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## morganj614

Other ways to meet people...Join a wine club if that is an interest. Go to a sports bar to watch your favorite team. There are dance lessons, card groups, book clubs, coffee shops, car clubs, boating...all kinds of ways to meet people. One time I put an ad out just to ride(motorcycles)...I got tons of responses and lots of new friends that I rode with.
I have met lots of guys that are just friends and someone to listen to music with or just talk to. I have met so many people here, men and women and I am having a great time. What about a local forum?


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## RoseRed

I have a 6 year old daughter at home so my time out is somewhat limited.


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## aps45819

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I suppose the right guy will show up eventually.


 


			
				RoseRed said:
			
		

> Thanks I'll keep that in mind.  I am not hard to look at, but I seem to attract some real weirdos.


  nebbermind


 As far as your friend goes, her putting all her info is probably the best policy. Tell her to use a recent photo. I went on a internet date once and the woman had used a 10 year old photo. Figured if she couldn't be honest about her appearance, she wold not be honest in other areas.
  Different guys are attracted to different body types. some guy like those that provide shade and some like those that have to run around in the rain to get wet. Tell her to be herself and she'll find somebody that is attracted to her as she is.


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## Toxick

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Am I way off here?    Are guys really only focused on looks?  Maybe I'm too naive...





Yes they are. All guys. Every damned one of them.
There's not a single exception.




Just like how all women are focused on is the bulge in the guys pants.


I'm talking about the bulge in the back - i.e. the wallet.


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## CityGrl

aps45819some like those that have to run around in the rain to get wet[/QUOTE said:
			
		

>


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## CityGrl

Toxick said:
			
		

> I'm talking about the bulge in the back - i.e. the wallet.


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## Hessian

*Harsh reality here...*

My wife had a very hot form when we were in college...I chased her for four years. However...after a child and 20yrs of marriage I have found something I totally did not expect....

A loss of intimacy based on appearance. Fighting with diets, dealing with stress, chronic back aches--and a low self esteem when she looks in the mirror has led to almost no intimacy at all.

Moral of the story...if a woman is fighting a weight problem...she may prove to be a great companion, good cook, and tender....but: very possible you will end up like the Dick Van Dyke show sleeping arrangement...no flirting, and no sensuality.

Is this what men think of when they see a weighty date?


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## Bogart

morganj614 said:
			
		

> The E-Harmony commercials make it sound like they hook people up on all levels of compatibility and she needs to get her picture and herself out there.


I don't recall seeing any fatties or fuglies hooking up on the eHarmony commercials


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## CityGrl

Hessian said:
			
		

> My wife had a very hot form when we were in college...I chased her for four years. However...after a child and 20yrs of marriage I have found something I totally did not expect....
> 
> A loss of intimacy based on appearance. Fighting with diets, dealing with stress, chronic back aches--and a low self esteem when she looks in the mirror has led to almost no intimacy at all.
> 
> Moral of the story...if a woman is fighting a weight problem...she may prove to be a great companion, good cook, and tender....but: very possible you will end up like the Dick Van Dyke show sleeping arrangement...no flirting, and no sensuality.
> 
> Is this what men think of when they see a weighty date?



Sorry to say this, but it works both ways.  Men get old and fat too, it's an aging thing.

I think that the whole low self-esteem thing is BS.  If you are both committed to it, you can bring intimacy back into a relationship after 20, 30, 40 years.  Make her feel good about herself.  Tell her she's beautiful.  Buy her a new dress, take her to dinner, make her feel like the beauty that she was when you met her.  Yes, you both may be older, but that doesn't mean you should sleep in separate beds and stop touching one another.

Just my two cents.


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## morganj614

Bogart said:
			
		

> I don't recall seeing any fatties or fuglies hooking up on the eHarmony commercials



I do recall seeing a few "not so perfect" ladies on there...Beauty means different things to different people.


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## CityGrl

morganj614 said:
			
		

> I do recall seeing a few "not so perfect" ladies on there...Beauty means different things to different people.


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## Bogart

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Other ways to meet people...Join a wine club if that is an interest. Go to a sports bar to watch your favorite team. There are dance lessons, card groups, book clubs, coffee shops, car clubs, boating...all kinds of ways to meet people.


 We       hear noise from a woman's high heals. MARLA SINGER enters, smoking.        She has short hair matte black hair and big, dark eyes like a character       from Japanese animation.​ JACK       (V.O.)
 And she ruined everything.​ Marla       looks around.​ MARLA
 This is cancer, right?​ Bob and Jack       stare, dumbfounded.​ INT. FIRST       METHODIST CHURCH MEETING ROOM - LATER
 Everyone       sits back in their seats. MOVE THROUGH ROOM...FIND JACK'S FACE as he       stares....MOVE THROUGH ROOM...FIND MARLA'S FACE. She's drinking coffee,       smoking a cigarette.​ JACK (V.O.)
 This...chick...Marla Singer...did not have testicular cancer. She was a       liar.​


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## RoseRed

Bogart - what the heck is that?


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## morganj614

Hessian said:
			
		

> My wife had a very hot form when we were in college...I chased her for four years. However...after a child and 20yrs of marriage I have found something I totally did not expect....
> A loss of intimacy based on appearance. Fighting with diets, dealing with stress, chronic back aches--and a low self esteem when she looks in the mirror has led to almost no intimacy at all.
> Moral of the story...if a woman is fighting a weight problem...she may prove to be a great companion, good cook, and tender....but: very possible you will end up like the Dick Van Dyke show sleeping arrangement...no flirting, and no sensuality.
> Is this what men think of when they see a weighty date?



My question to you is...Do you still desire her no matter what or are you contributing to this dilemma?
Alot of attraction is attitude and trust me, I ain't perfect but I got attitude so I know. 
Your attitude can helps hers or you can decide it's not working and make another choice.


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## Wickedwrench

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Thanks I'll keep that in mind. I am not hard to look at, but I seem to attract some real weirdos.


How ya doin?


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## CityGrl

morganj614 said:
			
		

> My question to you is...Do you still desire her no matter what or are you contributing to this dilemma?
> Alot of attraction is attitude and trust me, I ain't perfect but I got attitude so I know.
> Your attitude can helps hers or you can decide it's not working and make another choice.


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## morganj614

Bogart said:
			
		

> We       hear noise from a woman's high heals. MARLA SINGER enters, smoking.        She has short hair matte black hair and big, dark eyes like a character       from Japanese animation.​ JACK       (V.O.)
> And she ruined everything.​ Marla       looks around.​ MARLA
> This is cancer, right?​ Bob and Jack       stare, dumbfounded.​ INT. FIRST       METHODIST CHURCH MEETING ROOM - LATER
> Everyone       sits back in their seats. MOVE THROUGH ROOM...FIND JACK'S FACE as he       stares....MOVE THROUGH ROOM...FIND MARLA'S FACE. She's drinking coffee,       smoking a cigarette.​ JACK (V.O.)
> This...chick...Marla Singer...did not have testicular cancer. She was a       liar.​


*
FIGHT CLUB*


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## RoseRed

Wickedwrench said:
			
		

> How ya doin?



See!  








j/k


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## Wickedwrench

RoseRed said:
			
		

> See!
> 
> j/k


As long as you got a chuckle then my day is complete.


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## RoseRed

Wickedwrench said:
			
		

> As long as you got a chuckle then my day is complete.



You should see me laugh at myself.  It happens more often than not.


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## Nickel

Here's what I have to say about it: My cousin has got to be the most gorgeous girl/woman I have ever seen that wasn't paid to be that way.  Killer smile, flawless year-round-tan skin (naturally), beautiful jet black, silky hair, and due to a thyroid problem, she's a little overweight.  She doesn't seem overweight to me though, because she's so energetic, has such a great personality, and (the important part) carries herself like she's _it_, but not in a narcissistic way.  She's now married to a little hottie that she dated in high school, who just so happens to be a great guy to boot.  The moral of the story is that for some people looks/physique make or break a deal, but the whatever-percent of guys that are out there who take two seconds to look past that are worth the wait. :shrug:


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## morganj614

Nickel said:
			
		

> Here's what I have to say about it: My cousin has got to be the most gorgeous girl/woman I have ever seen that wasn't paid to be that way.  Killer smile, flawless year-round-tan skin (naturally), beautiful jet black, silky hair, and due to a thyroid problem, she's a little overweight.  She doesn't seem overweight to me though, because she's so energetic, has such a great personality, and (the important part) carries herself like she's _it_, but not in a narcissistic way.  She's now married to a little hottie that she dated in high school, who just so happens to be a great guy to boot.  The moral of the story is that for some people looks/physique make or break a deal, but the whatever-percent of guys that are out there who take two seconds to look past that are worth the wait. :shrug:



Nickel, she has attitude. If you can be confident and carry yourself a certain way, you can have what you want.


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## Bogart

Oh, yeah, I have a 'thyroid' problem, too


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## RoseRed

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Nickel, she has attitude. If you can be confident and carry yourself a certain way, you can have what you want.


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## kwillia

IMO, Every intimate relationship must begin with attraction. Something clicks between two people. Sometimes a relationship is forced based on some other need or drive and that usually leads for a failed relationship at some point down the road. Sometimes such a spark occurs between two people unexpectedly and that could lead to the breakup of an existing relationship that is already in the thros of failure resulting in an affair for one or more parties.  This spark or attraction that I speak of is a personal thing. What I mean is what sets us off is different for each of us and is usually derived from a COMBINATION of mental AND physical stimulation. This is why there is usually someone out there willing to BANG-BANG-BANG each and every one of us. The ill-will and discontent comes when the seeker and the seekee don't spark at the same time. It's natural selection at it's finest. It happens in species other than humans as well. Based on this theory of mine, getting to know someone "mentally" via verbal and written communication can tip the scales of making someone more attractive because of a composite "score" where great scoring in the "personality" department carry enough weight to boost physical attraction. Does this always help? Of course not, and when it doesn't, it's just as Otter said... move along... that person is not the person for you. Someone better is out there.


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## otter

Mikeinsmd said:
			
		

> Please email to me.......



Will do...


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## Nickel

Bogart said:
			
		

> Oh, yeah, I have a 'thyroid' problem, too


 And I'm sure there's someone out there who still loves you anyway.


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## CityGrl

otter said:
			
		

> Will do...


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## Ken King

morganj614 said:
			
		

> My question to you is...Do you still desire her no matter what or are you contributing to this dilemma?
> Alot of attraction is attitude and trust me, I ain't perfect but I got attitude so I know.
> Your attitude can helps hers or you can decide it's not working and make another choice.


 In other words, "Pop the Viagra and get 'er done". 

Seriously, a man can make any woman believe she is a goddess by how he talks to and treats her no matter what she might look like.


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## mainman

Bogart said:
			
		

> Oh, yeah, I have a 'thyroid' problem, too


I/m just big boneded...


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## cattitude

K_Jo said:
			
		

> You sweet, sensitive little rodent.






			
				Jazz Lady said:
			
		

> I just fell in love with you all over again.



Sorry ladies, he's mine, and I'm a lucky girl.


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## cattitude

Ken King said:
			
		

> Seriously, a man can make any woman believe she is a goddess by how he talks to and treats her no matter what she might look like.



Boy, the old guys are really making points tonight.


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## SmallTown

mainman said:
			
		

> I/m just big boneded...


Most women who say that need to look into getting a bone marrow reduction in their ass


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## otter

mainman said:
			
		

> I/m just big boneded...



Hey MM, email Mikeinsmd those pictures I sent you so I don't get Citygrl mad at me.


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## morganj614

Ken King said:
			
		

> In other words, "Pop the Viagra and get 'er done".
> 
> Seriously, a man can make any woman believe she is a goddess by how he talks to and treats her no matter what she might look like.



Seriously Ken, a woman can make a man feel like he is the best lover, the king, with the biggest #### in the world when in reality...


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## Mikeinsmd

otter said:
			
		

> Hey MM, email Mikeinsmd those pictures I sent you so I don't get Citygrl mad at me.


Yea and hurry up MM, before I get banned........


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## Ken King

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Seriously Ken, a woman can make a man feel like he is the best lover, the king, with the biggest #### in the world when in reality...


 Yes they can, no doubt about that.  It's what keeps us "coming" back.


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## morganj614

Ken King said:
			
		

> Yes they can, no doubt about that.  It's what keeps us "coming" back.



 Us too


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## cattitude

*And now the Ken and Otter show*

<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/jrlvr8/ladies_man.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


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## SmallTown

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Seriously Ken, a woman can make a man feel like he is the best lover, the king, with the biggest #### in the world when in reality...


Seriously morgan, a guy can make a woman think he cares


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## Ken King

cattitude said:
			
		

> <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/jrlvr8/ladies_man.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


 Man Otter has gotten tan out on the golf course.


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## Mikeinsmd

cattitude said:
			
		

> <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/jrlvr8/ladies_man.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


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## otter

Ken King said:
			
		

> Man Otter has gotten tan out on the golf course.



Right you are, Ken, ya know, when a man works hard his entire life enduring hundreds of ladies, many of whom he does not even remember you'd like to think that at the end of the day he will be given a lot of money, without having had to earn it.


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## RoseRed

otter said:
			
		

> Right you are, Ken, ya know, when a man works hard his entire life enduring hundreds of ladies, many of whom he does not even remember you'd like to think that at the end of the day he will be given a lot of money, without having had to earn it.


:manho:


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## cattitude

otter said:
			
		

> Right you are, Ken, ya know, when a man works hard his entire life enduring hundreds of ladies, many of whom he does not even remember you'd like to think that at the end of the day he will be given a lot of money, without having had to earn it.




Here ya go, baby.

<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/jrlvr8/courvoisier.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


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## Ken King

otter said:
			
		

> Right you are, Ken, ya know, when a man works hard his entire life enduring hundreds of ladies, many of whom he does not even remember you'd like to think that at the end of the day he will be given a lot of money, without having had to earn it.


 In the background "I'm just a gigolo ...”  

 Amen Brother


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## otter

cattitude said:
			
		

> Here ya go, baby.
> 
> <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/jrlvr8/courvoisier.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">



Hey baby, can I buy you a fish sandwich?


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## cattitude

otter said:
			
		

> Hey baby, can I buy you a fish sandwich?





You still got it.


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## Kyle

Ken King said:
			
		

> <<< there are others seeking a woman three-foot tall, a flat head, pistol-grip ears and fold-back teeth. >>>.


:impossibledreams:


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## jazz lady

Ken King said:
			
		

> Seriously, a man can make any woman believe she is a goddess by how he talks to and treats her no matter what she might look like.


That is very true.  It's also true a woman can do the same for a man. 

Attraction to me is much more than physical.  It's also a mental attraction based on common interests, compatibility, the ability to laugh together, sharing emotions, being able to talk to each other, and a thousand other things.  It's having trust in a person to give your love unconditionally and without reservation and having it returned.  It is simply the greatest gift one person can give another.


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## kwillia

jazz lady said:
			
		

> Attraction to me is much more than physical.  It's also a mental attraction based on common interests, compatibility, the ability to laugh together, sharing emotions, being able to talk to each other, and a thousand other things.


I'm flattered, Jazzy... but I don't swing that way...


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## jazz lady

kwillia said:
			
		

> I'm flattered, Jazzy... but I don't swing that way...


First catt and now you.


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## kwillia

Here's an example of a relationship built on a faulty foundation... Let it go 'Me' ... 'friendship' without 'the spark' doesn't last...


Why?
Me -- Wednesday, 27 July 2005, at 12:31 p.m.

I dont even know if you will even read this but i thought that i would at least give it a try. I thought that i gave you everything and i always thought that i was a nice to you as i could be. I tried to be the best girlfriend that i could be to you. I keep thinking back at everything and you never seemed that unhappy. I dont think that you changed me, i think that you made me a better person. I still dont understand everything, every relationship has its arguments, and problems but their was also A LOT of great times. Why the sudden change and everything i mean everything has seemed fine!! I wish there was something i could do. I loved you with all my heart!! Please think about everthing.. Why? Everytime i close my eyes i see your smile, i just wish i could hold you one last time...


----------



## RoseRed

You made my eyes bleed.


----------



## kwillia

RoseRed said:
			
		

> You made my eyes bleed.


I fro'd up a little in my mouf...


----------



## Triggerfish

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Here's my question: are men (even in their mid-30s) so superficial that looks mean EVERYTHING?  You figure that single men in their 30s are probably looking for the same thing as my friend (commitment, settling down) and realize that the choices are thinning out



I don't think men are as worried about choices thinning out. I may be wrong but I notice more older men with younger women than the other way around. Plus men can have kids even if they're old enough to be great-grandfathers. So no internal clock ticking.


----------



## Triggerfish

Oysters are nasty. If I want a fried loogie, I'll spit in a frying pan. 


Did ya know that a young oyster is called a spat?


----------



## RoseRed

kwillia said:
			
		

> I fro'd up a little in my mouf...


Dat 2.


----------



## RoseRed

Triggerfish said:
			
		

> Did ya know that a young oyster is called a spat?


Yes, I knew that.


----------



## fttrsbeerwench

EHARMONY SUCKS!

I put an add up there once... I immediatly got an email from them stating that, " At this time, we could not find a match for you. Keep you head up and we will inform you the minute someone compatible registers."
After they promised...

 Out of millions of poeple


 They fix up everyone, but told me that there's no one for me in the whole wide world. 

By the way, I'm chubby.
:


----------



## aps45819

Triggerfish said:
			
		

> Plus men can have kids even if they're old enough to be great-grandfathers. So no internal clock ticking.


  Every now and then, some sales clerk will ask my son if he's having fun with his grandpa. The boy gets all confused, the clerk gets emberassed.


----------



## Oz

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Are guys really only focused on looks?  Maybe I'm too naive...



I want to post something funny, but since this thread seems to be answered mostly by chicks, married older men and RoseRed's posse, here's my male perspective at mid-30's and separated. 

It may not be completely superficial. This is somewhat traditionalist, so I don't mean any slight to the upwardly mobile women here. I was always under the impression that women want a husband who will be loyal and dedicated to them, work hard to provide a good living situation, and stick around to raise children with them. 

Men can be concerned about the same things. What if he falls in love with an overweight woman. Could he be a widower at an early age, raising children by himself?  I'd ask myself that question.

Physical attraction is important but it's also superficial. Mental attraction is far more stimulating during the times when you aren't getting hot and sticky. We men are generally dogs. But we don't have to accept that rap all of the time.


----------



## RoseRed

I didn't know I had a posse...  :shrug:


----------



## kwillia

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I didn't know I had a posse...  :shrug:


Pssst... look directly up... there it is...


----------



## cattitude

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I didn't know I had a posse...  :shrug:




I think I may have seen it at Jazz's.


----------



## RoseRed

kwillia said:
			
		

> Pssst... look directly up... there it is...


My ceiling?


----------



## kwillia

cattitude said:
			
		

> I think I may have seen it at Jazz's.


Oh my...


----------



## RoseRed

cattitude said:
			
		

> I think I may have seen it at Jazz's.


----------



## Oz

cattitude said:
			
		

> I think I may have seen it at Jazz's.




Did she freezer it up?


----------



## cattitude

Oz said:
			
		

> Did she freezer it up?



Well...there was a fan....


----------



## Oz

cattitude said:
			
		

> Well...there was a fan....



What about hairspray?


----------



## jazz lady

cattitude said:
			
		

> I think I may have seen it at Jazz's.


  What goes on at Jazz's STAYS at Jazz's.


----------



## BuddyLee

Honestly now, I don't think I should comment in this thread.  Seriously, what do I know about dating the right gal, I dated Janey.


----------



## SilverIntrepid

I'm not 30 yet.  (Only 29 yrs old)  
I look for brains, beauty, and other minor things.   A woman who takes care of herself, and will not rely on me for everything.  I despise freeloaders. I work hard for my $.


----------



## aps45819

Some of my dating criteria is based on physics. A small lightweight woman fits better on the back of my bike


----------



## SamSpade

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Here's my question: are men (even in their mid-30s) so superficial that looks mean EVERYTHING? You figure that single men in their 30s are probably looking for the same thing as my friend (commitment, settling down) and realize that the choices are thinning out (choice word, huh?  ) as they get older. I'm not saying that the guy has to settle on a "fatty," but why not give someone like my friend a "second glance" before passing her up just because she is overweight?...


Having recently lost over 140 pounds, I can fairly say - *everybody* discriminates against people who are overweight. Women are no exception. The difference in the way I'm treated - by *strangers* - is like night and day.

I also spent the better part of a year dating women online, while overweight. I do know that I lost out on a lot of second dates because of my weight, even though I never made the slightest effort to hide that fact - I usually made it very clear from the beginning. 

That being the case, I had no problem dating women who weren't "slim" - some of them I liked a lot - I married one of them.

But I know that some of my attributes kept me out of some women's online filters. For one thing, I'm in my forties - and many women wouldn't date a man that old.

And that's the thing about online dating. When you turn up a search, you get hundreds of hits - so you "filter". For me, I wanted children, so it wasn't really worthwhile to pursue women who didn't LIKE them. I'm also moderately conservative, and I know from experience that I'd never get along with a Bush-bashing ultra-liberal. So I set filters for my search.

I'm sure my weight kept me out of many women's searches. That's life. Their loss. But I'm not bothered much by it - I did my own filtering.

Women online frequently have a much tougher job, than men. True, I had to write to about thirty women *A NIGHT* just to get a reply. But many of the women I met said their mailboxes were chock full of married guys looking for easy action, weirdos that made no sense at all, Mohammed from Oman looking for wife #6, and so on. It was depressing - you got lots of attention, but it was unwanted. So, they set controls to lock some men out. On occasion, that would unwittingly include guys like me.





> Am I way off here?  Are guys really only focused on looks? Maybe I'm too naive...


It all depends. For me, one of the biggest draws was someone who was CLOSE BY - I'd had enough of women who lived an hour or more away. Made it impossible to see them all that often. For some women, weight didn't matter, because it didn't seem to be symptomatic of something ELSE - like laziness, poor hygiene, horrid self-image - these things are turn-offs at ANY weight. 

But as I said before - there are search criteria that might eliminate your friend before anyone even sees her picture.

However, I *ABSOLUTELY* know from first-hand experience, being both morbidly obese and now - women are every bit as guilty of this, and far less likely to own up to it.


----------



## mAlice

I can't believe I read this whole thread.


----------



## morganj614

elaine said:
			
		

> I can't believe I read this whole thread.



Did you read the Pee Pee thread?


----------



## mAlice

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Did you read the Pee Pee thread?



No


----------



## rack'm

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Did you read the Pee Pee thread?




I don't read any thread started by Tigard......


----------



## morganj614

rack'm said:
			
		

> I don't read any thread started by Tigard......



Sometimes I just have to read them  this one is skippable.


----------



## Wickedwrench

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> Honestly now, I don't think I should comment in this thread. Seriously, what do I know about dating the right gal, I dated Janey.


Note that you said "dated", as in past tense. You are learning Buddy.


----------



## rack'm

*Men are creatures of sight.........*

Sad but true, most men would rather have a nice piece of arm candy than a theoretical genius.


----------



## DoWhat

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> This sounds like a job for DoWhat and DoWhat alone.


  
How did I know my name would come up?

Some very good replies.

I met my wife on line (Match.com), and I even posted a pic.  

When it clicks you know.


----------



## kwillia

DoWhat said:
			
		

> When it clicks you know.


----------



## BuddyLee

DoWhat said:
			
		

> How did I know my name would come up?
> 
> Some very good replies.
> 
> I met my wife on line (Match.com), and I even posted a pic.
> 
> When it clicks you know.


Your name was also mentioned in the Rondevous thread last night.


----------



## Chasey_Lane

You have to admit that physical attraction is what first draws your attention to someone.  After that, it's about their attitude, habits, characteristics, etc.


----------



## DoWhat

Chasey_Lane said:
			
		

> You have to admit that physical attraction is what first draws your attention to someone.  After that, it's about their attitude, habits, characteristics, etc.


----------



## DoWhat

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> Your name was also mentioned in the Rondevous thread last night.


Now I am off to do a :dems search:


----------



## morganj614

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> Your name was also mentioned in the Rondevous thread last night.



 I *TOLD* you I was not going to fight unless it is in orange jello


----------



## jazz lady

DoWhat said:
			
		

> Now I am off to do a :dems search:


Good.


----------



## jazz lady

morganj614 said:
			
		

> I *TOLD* you I was not going to fight unless it is in orange jello


But I don't like orange jello... 

Oops...    Nebbermind.


----------



## DoWhat

jazz lady said:
			
		

> Good.


I got your back, neighbor.
We also have a few cops that live down the street.


----------



## morganj614

jazz lady said:
			
		

> But I don't like orange jello...
> 
> Oops...    Nebbermind.



:spitballsforyou:


----------



## jazz lady

DoWhat said:
			
		

> I got your back, neighbor.






> We also have a few cops that live down the street.


----------



## jazz lady

morganj614 said:
			
		

> :spitballsforyou:


No thanks.  I've had enough.


----------



## ylexot

People are made of mind, body, and spirit.  A partner must be compatible in all three ways for the relationship to last.


----------



## aps45819

rack'm said:
			
		

> Sad but true, most men would rather have a nice piece of arm candy than a theoretical genius.


Men will admire women for their brains when they bounce gently as they walk by.


----------



## Chasey_Lane

Oh, and let me just say that if your grill is jacked up, it just ain't happening.


----------



## virgovictoria

rack'm said:
			
		

> Sad but true, most men would rather have a nice piece of arm candy than a theoretical genius.



I've heard my guy friends make the statement....  "Even the best looks and best bodies grow old...  "


----------



## rack'm

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> I've heard my guy friends make the statement....  "Even the best looks and best bodies grow old...  "




No doubt.......no matter how good she looks, in 6 months or less, you'll be tired of putting up with her crap.


----------



## fddog

There has to be some physical attraction first.


----------



## virgovictoria

rack'm said:
			
		

> No doubt.......no matter how good she looks, in 6 months or less, you'll be tired of putting up with her crap.



so the story goes.....


----------



## virgovictoria

fddog said:
			
		

> There has to be some physical attraction first.


Hi!!  Are you new here???


----------



## fddog

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> Hi!!  Are you new here???


----------



## Toxick

rack'm said:
			
		

> Sad but true, most men would rather have a nice piece of arm candy than a theoretical genius.




That depends...

Is the genius _hawt_?


And vanity plays into that as well. A lot of beautiful women know they're beautiful women, and get real fussy if you don't mention how beautiful they are every 15 minutes.





I got so lucky - I found me a hottie who doesn't believe she's a hottie, no matter how many times I tell her she is! That's so cute.


----------



## rack'm

Toxick said:
			
		

> I got so lucky - I found me a hottie who doesn't believe she's a hottie, no matter how many times I tell her she is! That's so cute.




You DID get lucky.....

I can't stand people like that......with a tude like that, they deserve to be alone.


----------



## crabcake

Toxick said:
			
		

> I got so lucky - I found me a hottie who doesn't believe she's a hottie, no matter how many times I tell her she is! That's so cute.


  we go out to a party somewhere
  the moment we walk in the door
  we both stop and everybody stares
  she donno what they're starin for

  she dont know she is beautiful
  she dont know she is beautiful
  she dont know she is beautiful
  though time and time i've told her so

  there she goes
  just walkin down the street
  and someone lets a whistle out
  a girl like her she just cant see
  what the fuss is all about

  she dont know she is beautiful
  she dont know she is beautiful
  she dont know she is beautiful
  though time and time i've told her so

  mornin comes and her hairs all a mess
  thats when she thinks she looks the worst
  its times like this she donno why
  i cant take my eyes off her

 though time and time i've told her so
  she dont know she is beautiful
  she dont know she is beautiful
  she dont know she is beautiful
  though time and time i've told her so


----------



## rack'm

crabcake said:
			
		

> we go out to a party somewhere
> the moment we walk in the door
> we both stop and everybody stares
> she donno what they're starin for
> 
> she dont know she is beautiful
> she dont know she is beautiful
> she dont know she is beautiful
> though time and time i've told her so
> 
> there she goes
> just walkin down the street
> and someone lets a whistle out
> a girl like her she just cant see
> what the fuss is all about
> 
> she dont know she is beautiful
> she dont know she is beautiful
> she dont know she is beautiful
> though time and time i've told her so
> 
> mornin comes and her hairs all a mess
> thats when she thinks she looks the worst
> its times like this she donno why
> i cant take my eyes off her
> 
> though time and time i've told her so
> she dont know she is beautiful
> she dont know she is beautiful
> she dont know she is beautiful
> though time and time i've told her so



Wrong tread....


----------



## crabcake

rack'm said:
			
		

> Wrong tread....


 my bad ... i felt inspired and just went with it. :shrug:


----------



## rack'm

crabcake said:
			
		

> my bad ... i felt inspired and just went with it. :shrug:



Ain't going there......


----------



## crabcake

rack'm said:
			
		

> Ain't going there......


  TY


----------



## rack'm

crabcake said:
			
		

> TY


----------



## sleuth

Oz said:
			
		

> I want to post something funny, but since this thread seems to be answered mostly by chicks, married older men and RoseRed's posse, here's my male perspective at mid-30's and separated.
> 
> It may not be completely superficial. This is somewhat traditionalist, so I don't mean any slight to the upwardly mobile women here. I was always under the impression that women want a husband who will be loyal and dedicated to them, work hard to provide a good living situation, and stick around to raise children with them.
> 
> Men can be concerned about the same things. What if he falls in love with an overweight woman. Could he be a widower at an early age, raising children by himself?  I'd ask myself that question.
> 
> Physical attraction is important but it's also superficial. Mental attraction is far more stimulating during the times when you aren't getting hot and sticky. We men are generally dogs. But we don't have to accept that rap all of the time.




It's true. Men are genetically programmed to like younger, healthy-looking women. It's how we were made to survive.

Examples:

Silky smooth hair is an indication of no parasites, good nutrition, and cleanliness. 
Smooth skin, large eyes, and full lips is indicative of youthfulness, energy, and therefore, good health.
Ample, firm breasts indicate the ability to breast-feed a child.
Round, full hips indicate child-bearing ability. I once saw a study where a bunch of pictures were shown to a group of men. Only the waist/hip region was shown - no faces, no breasts, no legs. The men were to choose the ideal woman for them. Almost exclusively they found that the women chosen as idea were found to have a waist-to-hip ratio of around 0.7.
Long shapely legs are indicative of the ability to "mate" and the ability to protect children (able to run well).

You could go over a lot more, but these are the things that men were "genetically" programmed to be attracted to. There's always exceptions to these rules, of course, but I believe current theory teaches these exceptions have more to do with "nurture" versus "nature".


----------



## sleuth

I've been planning to pick up the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by a Dr. William Harley (I think). 

I've heard preachers and psychologists lecture on the subject, but Harley, who was a marriage counselor, counseled thousands of couples, and he learned that the reason men and women were unhappy in their marriage was because their needs were not being met.

When he asked his male and female subjects to list and prioritize their needs, he found that they were radically different, and he came to the conclusion that it was no wonder these marriage partners had so much trouble - they didn't know how to please their mate!

Here's a little bit about it: http://www.bettermarriageskc.org/needs.htm

On the subject of physical attractiveness, men identify "sexual fulfillment" and "physical attraction" as their #1 and #3 most important needs, respectively. But it's not the kind of physical attraction you're thinking of.

Besides looking like a supermodel, which almost no women can measure up to, there are some simple things you can do to make yourself attractive to men.

1. Be clean and well groomed. Smell nice. This goes a long way.
2. Dress in clothing that your man likes. What are his favorite colors? Does he find certain clothing types more attractive on you?
3. Learn how to use makeup to accentuate your best features. 
4. Smile. With healthy teeth, of course (see my previous post)
5. Throw away the flannel pajamas. Even a silky robe is more attractive to your man. And he's theoretically the only one who sees your pajamas. He is the only person you have to focus on.

Here's a little bit from that link.



> The Irresistible Woman. A wife makes herself irresistible to her husband by learning to meet his five most important emotional needs.
> 
> 1. Sexual fulfillment. His wife meets this need by becoming a terrific sexual partner. She studies her own sexual response to recognize and understand which brings out the best in her; then she shares this information with him, and together they learn to have a sexual relationship that both find repeatedly satisfying and enjoyable.
> 
> Questions for both: Are we satisfied with our sexual experience? What changes would we like? Would we benefit by learning more from books or a therapist?
> 
> 2. Recreational companionship. She develops an interest in the recreational activities he enjoys most and tries to become proficient at them. If she finds she cannot enjoy them, she encourages him to consider other activities that they can enjoy toge ther. She becomes his favorite recreational companion, and he associates her with his most enjoyable moments of relaxation.
> 
> Questions for both: What activities do we enjoy together? What other mutual interests might we explore?
> 
> 3. Physical attractiveness. She keeps herself physically fit with diet and exercise, and she wears her hair, makeup, and clothes in a way that he finds attractive and tasteful. He is attracted to her in private and proud of her in public.
> 
> Questions for both: How important is this idea and do we want to make changes?


----------



## Bruzilla

Here's my take, based on 45 years of dealing with the subject, and still being happily married after 22 years.

The answer to the question regarding men and looks is yes and no.  Men will always initially be attracted to woman based on her looks, but this is not the same as saying a man will fall in love with a woman, or want to be with a woman, because of her looks.  Many ladies get upset when they catch their guy looking at some hot young thing across the way, but they don't realize that the thought of the woman is usually there and gone in a few seconds.  The only reason most men even think twice about some babe they see is because their wife/girlfriend made a big deal about his looking at her.

There have been many times in my life when I've met a woman who I initially thought was unattractive (and I do think that every guy rates every woman's appearance when he meets her), only to find myself later on changing my opinion of her once I get to know her and see her frequently.  I think that's this is because initially you look for things about a woman that make her unattractive, and later you looks for things that make her attractive.

I agree with those who have posted that she needs to get out there and get involved in group settings where she can meet real people who live nearby.  Whenever I read the personals in a paper, I always wonder how many of those people are people I either know or who I've had contact with during the day... without ever knowing they were lonely and looking for someone.  Your friend could be working right next to the perfect guy, but neither of them knows the other is looking, so they never connect.

I think that the best advice for your friend, and all gals like her, is not to use internet dating as a means to find a guy.  This format drops her right into the worst ways to meet a guy - short term/first impressions, and in those situations girls who are heavy or "not pretty" lose out.  She should go to car shows, bike shows, horse shows, join clubs, etc.  I guarantee you that once she gets involved with single guys on a frequent basis, and they see her for being better than they first thought and develop feelings for her, she'll find her guy... and he won't be some drueling mutant who claims he's Brad Pitt on the internet.


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> Besides looking like a supermodel, which almost no women can measure up to, there are some simple things you can do to make yourself attractive to men.
> 
> 1. Be clean and well groomed. Smell nice. This goes a long way.
> 2. Dress in clothing that your man likes. What are his favorite colors? Does he find certain clothing types more attractive on you?
> 3. Learn how to use makeup to accentuate your best features.
> 4. Smile. With healthy teeth, of course (see my previous post)
> 5. Throw away the flannel pajamas. Even a silky robe is more attractive to your man. And he's theoretically the only one who sees your pajamas. He is the only person you have to focus on.
> 
> Here's a little bit from that link.



So the woman should change and not the man?


----------



## rack'm

RoseRed said:
			
		

> So the woman should change and not the man?




That advice should go for both sexes, if you ask me. :shrug:


----------



## RoseRed

rack'm said:
			
		

> That advice should go for both sexes, if you ask me. :shrug:


Agreed, but that is not what he said.


----------



## rack'm

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Agreed, but that is not what he said.




True, but like John Gray, he probably leans towards the man's side.


----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> So the woman should change and not the man?


 I'm simply saying, that physical attractiveness listed higher on the needs for men than it did for women. In fact, for women, it wasn't even in the top 5.

The top 5 needs for women are...
1. Affection 
2. Conversation 
3. Honesty and openness 
4. Financial support 
5. Family commitment 

His study was very controversial, because it highlights the attentiveness that men pay toward the way a woman looks. A lot of women don't like it because they compare themselves to supermodels, when that isn't really the measuring standard. The real measuring standard is your man's preferences as to how you groom yourself.

Should a man try to look good for his wife? Absolutely. But I'll betcha if *most* women had to choose between looking good and one of those other five needs, they place a higher value on those top 5. At least they would if they're being honest with themselves.

And as I said, they're exceptions, for me, those needs are right on, except they're slightly in the wrong order. For myself, it goes like this.

1 Recreational companionship 
2 Admiration 
3 Sexual fulfillment 
4 An attractive spouse 
5 Loyalty

Does that mean physical attractiveness is unimportant to me? Absolutely not. It's still one of my top 5 needs. But for me the number one most important thing about my relationship with my girlfriend is the companionship aspect. But you bet your bottom dollar that at Christmas time, I buy her clothing that I find attractive on her.


----------



## Vince

RoseRed said:
			
		

> So the woman should change and not the man?


No one should have to change for the other.  If you are attracted to each other then see where it goes from there.  If not, don't change to measure up to someones standards that you shouldn't have to measure up to.  A woman shouldn't change to please a man and vica versa.  I don't consider myself attractive to women at all (fugly), but I won't change to please someone.  Like me for me or to hell with ya.


----------



## RoseRed

If I keep myself in good shape and clean, I expect my spouse to do the same.  Why should I have to settle for second fiddle because he chooses to let himself go, yet he expects me to keep up my appearances.  

I am not one of those women that needs a man to feel complete.  I am happy within my own skin and am able to take care of myself and my daughter.

That is my bottom line.


----------



## ylexot

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Agreed, but that is not what he said.


Well, the thread is about what men look for in women...


----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> If I keep myself in good shape and clean, I expect my spouse to do the same.  Why should I have to settle for second fiddle because he chooses to let himself go, yet he expects me to keep up my appearances.
> 
> I am not one of those women that needs a man to feel complete.  I am happy within my own skin and am able to take care of myself and my daughter.
> 
> That is my bottom line.


 So you're the exception.

But then again.. maybe you think he shouldn't let himself go because of a deep-seeded fear that if he lets himself go, he will die earlier, and now none of your needs would be filled.

It's a study of married couples. Take it for what you will. I'm only repeating what someone else said. :shrug:


----------



## Vince

RoseRed said:
			
		

> If I keep myself in good shape
> 
> That is my bottom line.


Hey Rose, does this mean you're going to go to the gym with me tomorrow?  


j/k


----------



## sleuth

Vince said:
			
		

> No one should have to change for the other.  If you are attracted to each other then see where it goes from there.  If not, don't change to measure up to someones standards that you shouldn't have to measure up to.  A woman shouldn't change to please a man and vica versa.  I don't consider myself attractive to women at all (fugly), but I won't change to please someone.  Like me for me or to hell with ya.


 Actually, if you follow the Biblical definition of what God sees as the role of a woman, God sees woman as a "change agent" who is supposed to make a man better and bring him closer to God.

I don't have the verse handy at the moment, though.


----------



## RoseRed

Vince said:
			
		

> Like me for me or to hell with ya.



My line was, love me, love my cat.  Guess which one I still have?


----------



## Big Momma

To attract all my mens , I wear a perfume called 'New Car Interior'.


----------



## Vince

RoseRed said:
			
		

> My line was, love me, love my cat.  Guess which one I still have?


----------



## Jameo

Big Momma said:
			
		

> To attract all my mens , I wear a perfume called 'New Car Interior'.



You sure it's not "KFC"


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> So you're the exception.


I am exceptional.


----------



## Big Momma

Jameo said:
			
		

> You sure it's not "KFC"





No youngin, I know you aint makin fun of my size. Right?


----------



## rack'm

Big Momma said:
			
		

> No youngin, I know you aint makin fun of my size. Right?



Just your race.......:shrug:


----------



## Vince

Big Momma said:
			
		

> To attract all my mens , I wear a perfume called 'New Car Interior'.


And just I love that New Car smell on a woman.  It does something to me.


----------



## Jameo

Big Momma said:
			
		

> No youngin, I know you aint makin fun of my size. Right?



Right!  Yous a hot momma!!


----------



## Big Momma

rack'm said:
			
		

> Just your race.......:shrug:





Now why is you going to bring something like that up?  You is about as smart as bait aint ya?


----------



## Big Momma

Jameo said:
			
		

> Right!  Yous a hot momma!!





Lawwdy, you just made me jiggle.  Thank you baby doll


----------



## mainman

Big Momma said:
			
		

> Now why is you going to bring something like that up? You is about as smart as bait aint ya?


You were in a race? Did you win? What car were you driving?


----------



## Big Momma

mainman said:
			
		

> You were in a race? Did you win? What car were you driving?





You think you is slicker'n snot don't ya?


----------



## BuddyLee

Big Momma said:
			
		

> You think you is slicker'n snot don't ya?


Yes he does.

Say *Mainman*, why don't you reply to this thread?


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> Actually, if you follow the Biblical definition of what God sees as the role of a woman, God sees woman as a "change agent" who is supposed to make a man better and bring him closer to God.
> 
> I don't have the verse handy at the moment, though.



I don't read the bible and frankly don't care what it has to say.


----------



## mainman

Big Momma said:
			
		

> You think you is slicker'n snot don't ya?


I've been told I am slicker than owl shiat on a doorknob, what I wanna know is who puts owl shiat on a doorknob and tries to turn it...


----------



## RoseRed

mainman said:
			
		

> You were in a race? Did you win? What car were you driving?



The one with the new car smell.


----------



## rack'm

Big Momma said:
			
		

> Now why is you going to bring something like that up?  You is about as smart as bait aint ya?



KFC was an obvious racial slur, if you didn’t see it, so be it.


----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I don't read the bible and frankly don't care what it has to say.


 I was simply offering it up there... not shoving it down your throat.
Hence the phrase "if you follow"


----------



## mainman

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> Yes he does.
> 
> Say *Mainman*, why don't you reply to this thread?


You mean the original thread topic?


----------



## Big Momma

mainman said:
			
		

> I've been told I am slicker than owl shiat on a doorknob, what I wanna know is who puts owl shiat on a doorknob and tries to turn it...





I think its betta then what my poppy used to say "Slick as greezed owl s--t thru a tin horn"


----------



## BuddyLee

mainman said:
			
		

> I've been told I am slicker than owl shiat on a doorknob, what I wanna know is who puts owl shiat on a doorknob and tries to turn it...


What I wanna know is who put that bloody tampon on FD's bathroom door at his Christmas party?


----------



## BuddyLee

mainman said:
			
		

> You mean the original thread topic?


I know what you were thinkin' and don't even change the topic to that again.  Oh lawd no, no more stories about that love seat.


----------



## Big Momma

rack'm said:
			
		

> KFC was an obvious racial slur, if you didn’t see it, so be it.






You is right, I don't know a single white folk that eats KFC


----------



## rack'm

Big Momma said:
			
		

> You is right, I don't know a single white folk that eats KFC




Or Bojangles for that matter.....


But, I've seen a few sliders at Popeyes.....


----------



## Jameo

Big Momma said:
			
		

> You is right, I don't know a single white folk that eats KFC



I prefer popeyes chicken


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> I was simply offering it up there... not shoving it down your throat.
> Hence the phrase "if you follow"



I choose my own path.


----------



## cattitude

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> What I wanna know is who put that bloody tampon on FD's bathroom door at his Christmas party?




I have a theroy.


----------



## BuddyLee

cattitude said:
			
		

> I have a theroy.


Jazz


----------



## jazz lady

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I choose my own path.


 

I find some of the Bible to be archaic and downright demeaning towards women, but it was written in much different times and a much different society than today.

I want to be a partner and an equal in a relationship, NOT a step above a slave and somebody's property.


----------



## jazz lady

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> Jazz


    You're just cruising for a bruising, aren't you?


----------



## RoseRed

jazz lady said:
			
		

> I find some of the Bible to be archaic and downright demeaning towards women, but it was written in much different times and a much different society than today.
> 
> I want to be a partner and an equal in a relationship, NOT a step above a slave and somebody's property.



I have a friend that CANNOT stand to be alone and MUST have a man in her life at all times.  I so do not tick that way.  I like my solitude and doing whatever the heck I want, when I want.  I am not saying I want to live the rest of my life this way, but for the time being, I am content.  I don't need a man to validate who or what I am.


----------



## BuddyLee

jazz lady said:
			
		

> You're just cruising for a bruising, aren't you?


Have mercy.  It was the second cherry, I swear.


----------



## jazz lady

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I have a friend that CANNOT stand to be alone and MUST have a man in her life at all times. I so do not tick that way. I like my solitude and doing whatever the heck I want, when I want. I am not saying I want to live the rest of my life this way, but for the time being, I am content. I don't need a man to validate who or what I am.


:soulsister:


----------



## bresamil

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I have a friend that CANNOT stand to be alone and MUST have a man in her life at all times.  I so do not tick that way.  I like my solitude and doing whatever the heck I want, when I want.  I am not saying I want to live the rest of my life this way, but for the time being, I am content.  I don't need a man to validate who or what I am.


  


I have a friend like that too.  And all she picks are losers.  She drives me nuts.


----------



## RoseRed

jazz lady said:
			
		

> :soulsister:


----------



## RoseRed

bresamil said:
			
		

> I have a friend like that too.  And all she picks are losers.  She drives me nuts.



The funny thing is, she think I am nuts for liking the single life!


----------



## sleuth

jazz lady said:
			
		

> I find some of the Bible to be archaic and downright demeaning towards women, but it was written in much different times and a much different society than today.
> 
> I want to be a partner and an equal in a relationship, NOT a step above a slave and somebody's property.


 You must have read it wrong. 
Different roles does not mean inequality.

This is how a minister similar to my own explained the "submission" of the wife... 



> The overarching command for wives is submit because that is what they find most difficult to do as sinful wives. The overarching command for husbands is love because that is what they find most difficult to do as sinful husbands.
> 
> The commands to submit and love are intended to reverse the curse inflicted in the Garden of Eden. We’ve already seen how God created men and women in the garden: equal, yet with different roles. God’s plan from the beginning–in his paradise, with the way things as they were meant to be– was for a gentle helping wife and a gracious leading husband. But sin corrupted God’s good design. The marriage relationship was cursed. "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you" (Genesis 3:16).
> 
> Notice the curse on both sides of the marriage relationship. The woman, who was supposed to help and support the husband–now her desire will be for her husband. Don’t misunderstand the word "desire." It does not refer to romantic desire (some curse that would be!) or a desire to please her husband; it is a desire for control. The Hebrew word for desire in 3:16 is the same word used in 4:7b "...sin is crouching at your door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it." The two verses have very similar verbal constructions. You don’t have to know any Hebrew to see the parallels.
> 
> Genesis 4:7 (whose meaning is relatively clear) helps us understand Genesis 3:16 (whose meaning at first seems relatively unclear). Just as sin desired to have control over Cain, so the woman, tainted by sin, desires to have control over her husband. Which is why Paul gives the command "submit." The inclination of fallen woman is to rebel against her husband’s authority and try to control him. Paul’s command aims to reverse the effects of the curse and have Christian wives submit rather than usurp.
> 
> Likewise, men, who are supposed to lead and protect and provide for their wives, now, tainted by sin, rule over their wives. The word "rule" in 3:16 has a negative connotation. It’s part of the curse. The wife becomes a usurper and the husband becomes a dictator. Again, the verbal parallels with 4:7 are telling. Sin desired to control Cain, just like the fallen wife desires to control her husband. And Cain was supposed to have mastery over sin, just like the fallen husband tries to have mastery over his wife. Under the curse, men take God’s good gift of headship and twist it into tyranny. Which is why Paul gives the command "love." The inclination of fallen man is to exercise ungodly rule over his wife. Paul’s command aims to reverse the effects of the curse and have Christian husbands love rather than domineer.
> 
> ...
> 
> She submits–don’t miss that gentleman. The command is for the wife, not the husband. The man is never told to submit the wife unto himself. Instead, the woman is told to submit herself unto her husband. It is a submission freely given, never forcibly taken.



More reading... http://www.urc-msu.org/mp3/Husbands&Wives2.htm


----------



## rack'm

and yet another good topic shot to hell with religion.


----------



## mAlice

rack'm said:
			
		

> and yet another good topic shot to hell with religion.


----------



## RoseRed

elaine said:
			
		

>


----------



## jazz lady

sleuth said:
			
		

> You must have read it wrong.
> Different roles does not mean inequality.
> 
> This is how a minister similar to my own explained the "submission" of the wife...
> 
> 
> 
> More reading... http://www.urc-msu.org/mp3/Husbands&Wives2.htm


No, I read it right - VERY right. I submit to no man and no man submits to me. Decisions in my life that AFFECT my life are MINE to make, either as a single person or as an equal partner in a relationship. I will NOT submit blindly to those being made for me because the Bible tells me that is my role in life.  It is as I stated archaic and demeaning to women and I stand by my words.


----------



## Midnightrider

rack'm said:
			
		

> and yet another good topic shot to hell with religion.


I'm sure he'll keep thumping his bible AND pounding salt!!!


----------



## sleuth

rack'm said:
			
		

> and yet another good topic shot to hell with religion.


 I'm not shooting it to hell...
I just wanted to point it out that the Christian way isn't "demeaning" at all. "Submit" means something very different to a Biblical God than it does today.

Anyway.. carry on... I'll leave the Bible out of it if no one wants to hear that perspective. I just believe that men were genetically programmed by God to like certain things about women, including physical attractiveness. :shrug:


----------



## migtig

sleuth said:
			
		

> You must have read it wrong.
> Different roles does not mean inequality.
> 
> This is how a minister similar to my own explained the "submission" of the wife...
> 
> 
> 
> More reading... http://www.urc-msu.org/mp3/Husbands&Wives2.htm


  Guess that's why I ain't married.  What a bunch of crap - some man comes up to me and tells me I've been sinful and need to submit to him because he's sinful and needs to love me, is either going to get laughed at, thrown in the looney bin, or have the crap beat out of him.   

Sorry Sleuth, but that's crap - leave the religion in the religion tread.


----------



## rack'm

sleuth said:
			
		

> I'm not shooting it to hell...
> I just wanted to point it out that the Christian way isn't "demeaning" at all.
> 
> Anyway.. carry on... *I'll leave the Bible out of it* if no one wants to hear that perspective. *I just believe that men were genetically programmed by God* to like certain things about women, including physical attractiveness. :shrug:




That didn't even last a whole sentence.


----------



## mAlice

The bible, written by man, tell's us that women should _choose_ to be submissive to men.  BWAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA


----------



## BuddyLee

jazz lady said:
			
		

> No, I read it right - VERY right. I submit to no man and no man submits to me. Decisions in my life that AFFECT my life are MINE to make, either as a single person or as an equal partner in a relationship. I will NOT submit blindly to those being made for me because the Bible tells me that is my role in life. It is as I stated archaic and demeaning to women and I stand by my words.


While up in NYC, there were some brotha's in golden robes with a picture of Jesus laying on the side walk preaching to a group of women about this.  A few of the women were yelling, I so wanted to join in on the fun but we were on the move.


----------



## jazz lady

elaine said:
			
		

> The bible, written by man, tell's us that women should _choose_ to be submissive to men. BWAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA


That is EXACTLY my point.    I think there are a lot of wonderful things in the Bible, but it was written by men in a totally different atmosphere than today and no longer apply.


----------



## ylexot

Sorry, but it's only being "shot to hell by religion" because people find it necessary to beat up sleuth for his beliefs.


----------



## DoWhat

I want to ask Slueth a question, but I don't want to take the credit away from JH.


----------



## pixiegirl

ylexot said:
			
		

> Sorry, but it's only being "shot to hell by religion" because people find it necessary to beat up sleuth for his beliefs.



Ok, ok I'll let you smack my arse and call me Suzie.


----------



## rack'm

ylexot said:
			
		

> Sorry, but it's only being "shot to hell by religion" because people find it necessary to beat up sleuth for his beliefs.





I disagree……he’s welcomed to his beliefs and religion, but there is no need to combine the two in this fashion.


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> I'm not shooting it to hell...
> I just wanted to point it out that the Christian way isn't "demeaning" at all. "Submit" means something very different to a Biblical God than it does today.
> 
> Anyway.. carry on... I'll leave the Bible out of it if no one wants to hear that perspective. I just believe that men were genetically programmed by God to like certain things about women, including physical attractiveness. :shrug:



The did not start out as a Christian thread, you turned it into one.


----------



## mAlice

ylexot said:
			
		

> Sorry, but it's only being "shot to hell by religion" because people find it necessary to beat up sleuth for his beliefs.



Who's beating him up?    He's free to post his nonsense in the religious forums and we're all supposed to suck it up and keep our opinions to ourselves.  If he doesn't want our opinions, then he should keep it in the religion forum.   This was a perfectly civil discussion about relationships before he put his religious two cents in.


----------



## ylexot

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Ok, ok I'll let you smack my arse and call me Suzie.


 

BTW, about your sig...I'm willing to take that chance


----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> The did not start out as a Christian thread, you turned it into one.


 Fact of the matter is this...
The question posed was something to the effect of why men are the way they are toward women. Why we feel the way we do about physical attraction.

My answer is simply this. Because that's the way we were designed.
That's what I believe. 

Now, there could have been a hundred different answers to the original question. I answered with the one I believed.

If that makes it a Christian thread, it's your problem, not mine.


----------



## ylexot

rack'm said:
			
		

> I disagree……he’s welcomed to his beliefs and religion, but there is no need to combine the two in this fashion.


In what fashion?  Posting them on a forum?  I saw him post his opinion and get attacked for it.


----------



## jazz lady

RoseRed said:
			
		

> The did not start out as a Christian thread, you turned it into one.


  If you want to discuss the Christian view, take it to the Religion forum.  But Sleuth put it out here and I'm going to give MY opinion back.  

For me personally, I find it offensive and totally demeaning towards women.  Any woman who "submits" to her husband has lost not only her identity but her dignity.


----------



## mAlice

ylexot said:
			
		

> In what fashion?  Posting them on a forum?  I saw him post his opinion and get attacked for it.




Since when is having an opposing opinion attacking someone?


----------



## ylexot

elaine said:
			
		

> Who's beating him up?    He's free to post his nonsense in the religious forums and we're all supposed to suck it up and keep our opinions to ourselves.  If he doesn't want our opinions, then he should keep it in the religion forum.   This was a perfectly civil discussion about relationships before he put his religious two cents in.


He stated his opinion about relationships.  His opinion involves religion.  Does that mean that he's not allowed to post his opinion here and must keep it to the religion forum?  I don't think so...but that's just my opinion.


----------



## sleuth

elaine said:
			
		

> Who's beating him up?    He's free to post his nonsense in the religious forums and we're all supposed to suck it up and keep our opinions to ourselves.  If he doesn't want our opinions, then he should keep it in the religion forum.   This was a perfectly civil discussion about relationships before he put his religious two cents in.



Some would say that religion is all about relationships.
Whether you like it or not, religion doesn't end at the link inside the religious forum. It's pervasive, it affects all aspects of my life, including my relationships, and I'm not going to let you or anyone else tell me I can't talk about God anywhere I choose to.

And if someone bashes me, deletes my posts, or my threads, or bans me from the forum, then it was my choice to continue to that point. I'll be happy to live with the consequences. I chose it. I'll sleep with it.


----------



## mAlice

ylexot said:
			
		

> but that's just my opinion.



They're like *******s....


----------



## BuddyLee

:can-o-worms:


----------



## mAlice

sleuth said:
			
		

> Some would say that religion is all about relationships.
> Whether you like it or not, religion doesn't end at the link inside the religious forum. It's pervasive, it affects all aspects of my life, including my relationships, and I'm not going to let you or anyone else tell me I can't talk about God anywhere I choose to.
> 
> And if someone bashes me, deletes my posts, or my threads, or bans me from the forum, then it was my choice to continue to that point. I'll be happy to live with the consequences. I chose it. I'll sleep with it.




I'm out of this discussion.


----------



## rack'm

ylexot said:
			
		

> In what fashion?  Posting them on a forum?  I saw him post his opinion and get attacked for it.



How is telling him not to bring religion into it an attack??

I could see it if this was www.somd.religion.com/forums, but it isn't.

UFB!  The sensitivity in this forum is ridiculous. 


<img src="http://www.anzacday.org.au/education/activities/centaur/pdf/sinking_ship.jpg">


----------



## ylexot

elaine said:
			
		

> Since when is having an opposing opinion attacking someone?


When you say he's not allowed to post his opinion because it references religion, I consider that an attack.


----------



## migtig

sleuth said:
			
		

> Fact of the matter is this...
> The question posed was something to the effect of why men are the way they are toward women. Why we feel the way we do about physical attraction.
> 
> My answer is simply this. Because that's the way we were designed.
> That's what I believe.
> 
> Now, there could have been a hundred different answers to the original question. I answered with the one I believed.
> 
> If that makes it a Christian thread, it's your problem, not mine.


That's fine Sleuth - and I kinda agree with you - our genetic survival instincts do play a part in what we find attractive.  

However, what made it religious was all your "women must submit" crap.     Which is a bunch of fooey to me, and then you made it a Christian  issue with your talk of your minister and sermons and what the bible says and yada yada - see the problem?!


----------



## Toxick

rack'm said:
			
		

> I disagree……he’s welcomed to his beliefs and religion, but there is no need to combine the two in this fashion.





You mean having an an opinion, and then having the audacity to actually post it here?

I didn't know that the subject of religion was banned from discussion - or even mentioning - outside of the religious forums.




Are there any other subjects that we shouldn't broach here in public so as not to tweak the noggins of the hypersensitive?


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> Some would say that religion is all about relationships.



I am not _some_.  Religion has absolutely nothing to do with my life or relationships.  Do I need to be saved or will I burn in purgatory?


----------



## Toxick

rack'm said:
			
		

> UFB!  The sensitivity in this forum is ridiculous.



Amen to that.








WHOOPS! I didn't mean to say Amen


----------



## 404

sleuth said:
			
		

> I'll sleep with it.



Not getting much else are you?


----------



## sleuth

migtig said:
			
		

> That's fine Sleuth - and I kinda agree with you - our genetic survival instincts do play a part in what we find attractive.
> 
> However, what made it religious was all your "women must submit" crap.     Which is a bunch of fooey to me, and then you made it a Christian  issue with your talk of your minister and sermons and what the bible says and yada yada - see the problem?!


 Yeah, Mig, I can kinda see your point.
But there's a blurry line there. We were talking about relationships just as much as we were talking about physical attractiveness. So I simply explained a little bit about my opinion on relationships, and the reason I brought in the sermon and stuff is quite simply because I didn't think I could say it any better than that guy.

I'm not trying to ram my opinion down anyone's throat. I posted it for people to agree or disagree with. And if they disagree with it but then turn around and tell me I'm full of crap, I'm going to stand up for my position.

All I know is that the people I know who strive to follow the Biblical description of a husband and wife, seem to be pretty happy couples. Are there happy couples that don't follow it? Yeah, probably, but I know a lot more unhappy couples that don't follow it than there are unhappy couples who do follow it.


----------



## BuddyLee




----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> I am not _some_.  Religion has absolutely nothing to do with my life or relationships.  Do I need to be saved or will I burn in purgatory?


 Did I ever attack you or tell you that you would be banned to purgatory?
Get a grip. I offered up my view, period.

And I never said you were "some". You are who you are. Whether you fit in the "somes" or "mosts" as I describe them is not up to me. That's why I didn't use the word "all."


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> Did I ever attack you or tell you that you would be banned to purgatory?
> Get a grip. I offered up my view, period.
> 
> And I never said you were "some". You are who you are. Whether you fit in the "somes" or "mosts" as I describe them is not up to me. That's why I didn't use the word "all."



I have a grip and it is rather firm TYVM.


----------



## jazz lady

migtig said:
			
		

> That's fine Sleuth - and I kinda agree with you - our genetic survival instincts do play a part in what we find attractive.
> 
> However, what made it religious was all your "women must submit" crap.  Which is a bunch of fooey to me, and then you made it a Christian issue with your talk of your minister and sermons and what the bible says and yada yada - see the problem?!


We are at the root of it all still animals and still have the same urges and needs, even with the thin veneer of civilization.  That I don't disagree with.

But like mig says, the "women must submit" stuff just rubs me the wrong way.  If it works for you and your woman, by all means go for it.  But I see too many relationships based on religion become a master/slave relationship and it greatly saddens me to see women so oppressed they no longer have their own identity.


----------



## migtig

sleuth said:
			
		

> Yeah, Mig, I can kinda see your point.
> But there's a blurry line there. We were talking about relationships just as much as we were talking about physical attractiveness. So I simply explained a little bit about my opinion on relationships, and the reason I brought in the sermon and stuff is quite simply because I didn't think I could say it any better than that guy.
> 
> I'm not trying to ram my opinion down anyone's throat. I posted it for people to agree or disagree with. And if they disagree with it but then turn around and tell me I'm full of crap, I'm going to stand up for my position.
> 
> All I know is that the people I know who strive to follow the Biblical description of a husband and wife, seem to be pretty happy couples. Are there happy couples that don't follow it? Yeah, probably, but I know a lot more unhappy couples that don't follow it than there are unhappy couples who do follow it.


And I don't know any healthy whole relationship where the woman is submissive - except where the couples play s&m games. Otherwise, if the relationship is healthy - she is a partner, an equal.  Your submissive crap is crap.   Believe whatever ya want - I don't care - but be careful some woman doesn't slam ya with a baseball bat when you order her to submit.   

BTW, any man thinking I need to submit to his will if I am not playing at S&M, is extremely unattractive to me.  JMO


----------



## sleuth

jazz lady said:
			
		

> We are at the root of it all still animals and still have the same urges and needs, even with the thin veneer of civilization.  That I don't disagree with.
> 
> But like mig says, the "women must submit" stuff just rubs me the wrong way.  If it works for you and your woman, by all means go for it.  But I see too many relationships based on religion become a master/slave relationship and it greatly saddens me to see women so oppressed they no longer have their own identity.


 And those are exactly the kinds I was talking about when I posted about the "curse".


----------



## sleuth

migtig said:
			
		

> And I don't know any healthy whole relationship where the woman is submissive - except where the couples play s&m games. Otherwise, if the relationship is healthy - she is a partner, an equal.  Your submissive crap is crap.   Believe whatever ya want - I don't care - but be careful some woman doesn't slam ya with a baseball bat when you order her to submit.
> 
> BTW, any man thinking I need to submit to his will if I am not playing at S&M, is extremely unattractive to me.  JMO


 I would never order anyone to "submit". As I posted earlier, the command was from God to the wife, not from the husband to the wife. Submission is freely given, because God gives women "free will" to listen to his command or not.

I guess no one even bothered to read what I posted, they just saw the word "submit" and immediately assumed I was some kind of male chauvinist tyrant wife abuser.


----------



## BuddyLee

migtig said:
			
		

> And I don't know any healthy whole relationship where the woman is submissive - except where the couples play s&m games. Otherwise, if the relationship is healthy - she is a partner, an equal. Your submissive crap is crap. Believe whatever ya want - I don't care - but be careful some woman doesn't slam ya with a baseball bat when you order her to submit.
> 
> BTW, any man thinking I need to submit to his will if I am not playing at S&M, is extremely unattractive to me. JMO


I'm wondering Slueth, is this how your relationship works?


----------



## migtig

sleuth said:
			
		

> I would never order anyone to "submit". As I posted earlier, the command was from God to the wife, not from the husband to the wife. Submission is freely given, because God gives women "free will" to listen to his command or not.
> 
> I guess no one even bothered to read what I posted, they just saw the word "submit" and immediately assumed I was some kind of male chauvinist tyrant wife abuser.


 
I read it and it sounds like this:
I am a man.  You are a woman.  Get naked and do what I tell you cause I am a man.  I am a sinful man so I gotta love you.  You is a sinful woman so ya gotta lay there and take it.  
Really.  It's the funniest bag of crap I have ever read.  Offensive as heck, but funny.


----------



## cattitude

sleuth said:
			
		

> I've been planning to pick up the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by a Dr. William Harley (I think).



You know, Sleuth, a few years ago, I read that site alot.  Dr. Harley is very big on promoting men and women EQUALLY learning about appreciating each other...love banks, etc.  He helps couples understand the differences in men and women and how the needs are different of each.  You make it sound as if he emphasizes that woman are supposed to look good for the men.  But he makes a point to say that BOTH should take care of themselves and be presentable, etc. to each.

What does it say about what the men should do to look appealing to the woman?  Did you happen to read that part?

Granted I haven't read it in a long time, but I don't think his philosophy has changed.


----------



## sleuth

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> I'm wondering Slueth, is this how your relationship works?




    

Are you kidding me? If I told my GF "you must submit to me" she'd hit me upside the head with a frying pan.

But you know what? I don't have to tell her. 
And I've never made a decision that affects both of us without consulting her and weighing her opinion.

She knows this, and when I make a decision, she follows my lead.


----------



## jazz lady

sleuth said:
			
		

> And those are exactly the kinds I was talking about when I posted about the "curse".


Then I am cursed and very thankful for it.


----------



## sleuth

cattitude said:
			
		

> You know, Sleuth, a few years ago, I read that site alot.  Dr. Harley is very big on promoting men and women EQUALLY learning about appreciating each other...love banks, etc.  He helps couples understand the differences in men and women and how the needs are different of each.  You make it sound as if he emphasizes that woman are supposed to look good for the men.  But he makes a point to say that BOTH should take care of themselves and be presentable, etc. to each.
> 
> What does it say about what the men should do to look appealing to the woman?  Did you happen to read that part?
> 
> Granted I haven't read it in a long time, but I don't think his philosophy has changed.


 I haven't read the book yet. I just heard a lecture on it a few days ago and I've ordered the book.

But as I said in an earlier post, I think a man should try to look good for his wife.
I just said that according to what I know about the book, her husband's physical attractiveness isn't in her top 5 needs.


----------



## BuddyLee

sleuth said:
			
		

> Are you kidding me? If I told my GF "you must submit to me" she'd hit me upside the head with a frying pan.
> 
> But you know what? I don't have to tell her.
> And I've never made a decision that affects both of us without consulting her and weighing her opinion.
> 
> She knows this, and when I make a decision, she follows my lead.


That's what I thought.  So if you feel so strongly about this and almost everything within the bible then why don't you feel strong enough as to implement this into your very own relationship?


----------



## DoWhat

Where is Dr. Phil when you need him?


----------



## sleuth

migtig said:
			
		

> I read it and it sounds like this:
> I am a man.  You are a woman.  Get naked and do what I tell you cause I am a man.  I am a sinful man so I gotta love you.  You is a sinful woman so ya gotta lay there and take it.
> Really.  It's the funniest bag of crap I have ever read.  Offensive as heck, but funny.


 :justshakeshishead: That isn't the point I was trying to make it all.


----------



## crabcake

sleuth said:
			
		

> I just said that according to what I know about the book, her husband's physical attractiveness isn't in her top 5 needs.


 Is it in his?


----------



## Ken King

sleuth said:
			
		

> Are you kidding me? If I told my GF "you must submit to me" she'd hit me upside the head with a frying pan.
> 
> But you know what? I don't have to tell her.
> And I've never made a decision that affects both of us without consulting her and weighing her opinion.
> 
> She knows this, and when I make a decision, she follows my lead.


Keeping her in the kitchen, huh?


----------



## migtig

sleuth said:
			
		

> :justshakeshishead: That isn't the point I was trying to make it all.


  Well now I think ya see why so many women was upset.


----------



## jazz lady

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> That's what I thought. So if you feel so strongly about this and almost everything within the bible then why don't you feel strong enough as to implement this into your very own relationship?


Exactly!  I was just getting ready to say the same thing.  Why would you purport to believe one thing and actually do another in real life?


----------



## cattitude

After reading this thread I have have to shout:

Otter darlin, I know you're out there.  I am SOOOOOOOOO glad we have each other and that whatever we're doing, it's working.


----------



## sleuth

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> That's what I thought.  So if you feel so strongly about this and almost everything within the bible then why don't you feel strong enough as to implement this into your very own relationship?


 That's just it, I *do* implement it in my relationship.
Just because the Bible tells me that I'm supposed to be the head of the household doesn't mean that I can twist this responsibility into some kind of domineering tyranny.

Just because the Bible says that a wife must follow her husband doesn't mean that she doesn't get to influence her husband's choices. That's in there too. And it also doesn't say that she doesn't get to make any choices of her own. But it does say that the man is the head of the family, and as head of the family he is only supposed to make decisions that are good for the family. How could he make a good decision without first finding out what his family, and most especially his wife, feels.


----------



## sleuth

crabcake said:
			
		

> Is it in his?


 A Physically attractive wife, according to Dr. Harley, is the number 3 top need for husbands. I didn't write it. I just reported it. :shrug:


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> Are you kidding me? If I told my GF "you must submit to me" she'd hit me upside the head with a frying pan.
> 
> But you know what? I don't have to tell her.
> And I've never made a decision that affects both of us without consulting her and weighing her opinion.
> 
> She knows this, and when I make a decision, she follows my lead.



Even if she doesn't agree?


----------



## sleuth

Ken King said:
			
		

> Keeping her in the kitchen, huh?


 Pot-stirrer. What's that smiley code again?


----------



## RoseRed

cattitude said:
			
		

> After reading this thread I have have to shout:
> 
> Otter darlin, I know you're out there.  I am SOOOOOOOOO glad we have each other and that whatever we're doing, it's working.


----------



## Ken King

sleuth said:
			
		

> Pot-stirrer. What's that smiley code again?


 I'm not the one domenating my woman in the name of the Bible.  

Oh yeah, how long has your longest relationship lasted?  Have you had a full time live in female partner?


----------



## pixiegirl

cattitude said:
			
		

> After reading this thread I have have to shout:
> 
> Otter darlin, I know you're out there.  I am SOOOOOOOOO glad we have each other and that whatever we're doing, it's working.



You're being awfully nice....  What you got your eye on?


----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Even if she doesn't agree?


 Believe me, if she didn't agree, I would only make the choice she didn't agree with if I felt so strongly, after prayer and meditation on the subject, that it was in our best interest.

And truth is... even if she didn't agree... well the answer is "I don't know". I've never had to make such a difficult decision where I couldn't persuade her that it was a good idea. But... based on what she has said to me, and her beliefs, I think so.


----------



## DoWhat

Ken King said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, how long has your longest relationship lasted?  Have you had a full time live in female partner?


----------



## sleuth

Ken King said:
			
		

> I'm not the one domenating my woman in the name of the Bible.
> 
> Oh yeah, how long has your longest relationship lasted?  Have you had a full time live in female partner?


 :shrug: 2 years this month. 
And no, I haven't.

But then, I never claimed to be an expert.
I'm only sharing an opinion.


----------



## cattitude

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> You're being awfully nice....  What you got your eye on?



Mothers do not share that with their daughters.


----------



## BuddyLee

cattitude said:
			
		

> Mothers do not share that with their daughters.


It's ok, you can tell her about us.


----------



## pixiegirl

cattitude said:
			
		

> Mothers do not share that with their daughters.



Ekkkk!


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> Believe me, if she didn't agree, I would only make the choice she didn't agree with if I felt so strongly, after prayer and meditation on the subject, that it was in our best interest.
> 
> And truth is... even if she didn't agree... well the answer is "I don't know". I've never had to make such a difficult decision where I couldn't persuade her that it was a good idea. But... based on what she has said to me, and her beliefs, I think so.



What if she still does not agree.  Is she allowed to pursude you to follow her belief, even if you don't agree with it?


----------



## cattitude

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> It's ok, you can tell her about us.



You tell your mom first, if she's okay with it, I'll tell Pixie.


----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> What if she still does not agree.  Is she allowed to pursude you to follow her belief, even if you don't agree with it?


 She can persuade all she wants. And if she's successful at changing my mind, then that's ok.
Ultimately, the final decision rests with me.

But make no mistake. If I make a decision that I know will make her unhappy, I do it at my own peril. And if I make a decision that leads her into sin, I do it at my own peril. It would have to be a pretty dang bulletproof reason if I were to make a decision that I thought would make her unhappy.

If it's not in the Bible it should be, but actually I think there is something in there that says the wife sets the tone of the home. In today's language, "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

Really, the only decision I can think of right now that would be that big would be moving for a new job. I'm sure there's others, but that's the one that sticks out to me.


----------



## BuddyLee

sleuth said:
			
		

> She can persuade all she wants. And if she's successful at changing my mind, then that's ok.
> Ultimately, the final decision rests with me.
> 
> But make no mistake. If I make a decision that I know will make her unhappy, I do it at my own peril. And if I make a decision that leads her into sin, I do it at my own peril. It would have to be a pretty dang bulletproof reason if I were to make a decision that I thought would make her unhappy.
> 
> If it's not in the Bible it should be, but actually I think there is something in there that says the wife sets the tone of the home. In today's language, "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."


What about her kid, does any decision with him/her rest with you too?  What about if she wants out of the relationship, does she need your permission with that too?

Just wondering...


----------



## otter

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> You're being awfully nice....  What you got your eye on?



Exactly!!

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/otterzzz/suspicious.gif">


----------



## crabcake

sleuth said:
			
		

> A Physically attractive wife, according to Dr. Harley, is the number 3 top need for husbands. I didn't write it. I just reported it. :shrug:


 Well that's pretty messed up! I can see certain needs differing for men and women, but something like "looks" being in his top 5 but not hers ... 

 If she's 'all that' she's probably gonna be too much woman for the man that adheres to guidelines like that and tell him to pound sand. JMO.


----------



## RoseRed

sleuth said:
			
		

> She can persuade all she wants. And if she's successful at changing my mind, then that's ok.
> Ultimately, the final decision rests with me.
> 
> But make no mistake. If I make a decision that I know will make her unhappy, I do it at my own peril. And if I make a decision that leads her into sin, I do it at my own peril. It would have to be a pretty dang bulletproof reason if I were to make a decision that I thought would make her unhappy.
> 
> If it's not in the Bible it should be, but actually I think there is something in there that says the wife sets the tone of the home. In today's language, "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."
> 
> Really, the only decision I can think of right now that would be that big would be moving for a new job. I'm sure there's others, but that's the one that sticks out to me.



I have nothing more to say except UFB.


----------



## ylexot

crabcake said:
			
		

> Well that's pretty messed up! I can see certain needs differing for men and women, but something like "looks" being in his top 5 but not hers ...
> 
> If she's 'all that' she's probably gonna be too much woman for the man that adheres to guidelines like that and tell him to pound sand. JMO.


Psst...they're not guidelines.  They're results of research.


----------



## mAlice

sleuth said:
			
		

> the final decision rests with me.


----------



## jazz lady

sleuth said:
			
		

> She can persuade all she wants. And if she's successful at changing my mind, then that's ok.
> Ultimately, the final decision rests with me.


And that just blows my mind that ANYONE would let somebody make a decision for them that affects them regardless of their opinion on the subject.  Absolutely amazing.  I just can't get past that.



> But make no mistake. If I make a decision that I know will make her unhappy, I do it at my own peril. And if I make a decision that leads her into sin, I do it at my own peril. It would have to be a pretty dang bulletproof reason if I were to make a decision that I thought would make her unhappy.


You don't always know at the time of making a decision if it WILL make somebody unhappy.  Too many people get trapped into the mindset of "don't rock the boat" and just go along with the flow, never voicing their opinion or fighting hard enough for what they believe is right or what THEY want.



> If it's not in the Bible it should be, but actually I think there is something in there that says the wife sets the tone of the home. In today's language, "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."


And "if daddy ain't happy, ain't nobody happy" should be, too.  It goes BOTH ways.


----------



## cattitude

sleuth said:
			
		

> Ultimately, the final decision rests with me.



Good luck, Sleuthy.  

You can talk all you want about your "opinions" on relationships, but until you sleep with, eat with, pee with, puke with, laugh with, clean house with and whatever else you do in a real relationship, your opinions ain't worth crap.  You cannot fully know a person, how you both will react to life until you LIVE with them.


----------



## sleuth

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> What about her kid, does any decision with him/her rest with you too?  What about if she wants out of the relationship, does she need your permission with that too?
> 
> Just wondering...




Your first question... As head of the household, yes it does. 
Of course, legally, the ex-husband has some say in life-or-death decisions.

But I think you're missing the point. As head the household, my responsibility is the welfare of the family. If I determine that a decision I make is somehow going to cause damage to the family, such as... Momma or kid ain't happy and this will really affect her ability to be happy... then I don't make that decision.

Your second question... well... all bets are off if it ever comes to that.  If she no longer wants to be my wife, then I guess she's not bound to do anything I say, is she.


----------



## kwillia

cattitude said:
			
		

> Good luck, Sleuthy.
> 
> You can talk all you want about your "opinions" on relationships, but until you sleep with, eat with, pee with, puke with, laugh with, clean house with and whatever else you do in a real relationship, your opinions ain't worth crap.  You cannot fully know a person, how you both will react to life until you LIVE with them.


Exactly! Oh Catt... I love you as much as you and I love Otter...


----------



## DoWhat

sleuth said:
			
		

> Ultimately, the final decision rests with me.


Damn, I always have to ask if I can go out for a beer.


----------



## RoseRed

jazz lady said:
			
		

> And that just blows my mind that ANYONE would let somebody make a decision for them that affects them regardless of their opinion on the subject.  Absolutely amazing.  I just can't get past that..



It shows absolutely no respect for the other parties opinion.


----------



## crabcake

ylexot said:
			
		

> Psst...they're not guidelines.  They're results of research.


 Ahhh ... 

 I'm just glad my guy is a man with basic "male" needs who doesn't get all philosophical and religious on me about crap.  Things don't have to be difficult; it can be really easy if you just keep it that way.


----------



## RoseRed

DoWhat said:
			
		

> Damn, I always have to ask if I can go out for a beer.


----------



## crabcake

cattitude said:
			
		

> You can talk all you want about your "opinions" on relationships, but until you sleep with, eat with, pee with, puke with, laugh with, clean house with and whatever else you do in a real relationship, your opinions ain't worth crap. You cannot fully know a person, how you both will react to life until you LIVE with them.


  I'm sure people will hate this notion, but this is exactly why I would encourage my daughter to live with a man she plans to marry before taking the stroll down the aisle when that time comes. You can't know all the nuances of a person until you shack up with 'em.


----------



## virgovictoria

ylexot said:
			
		

> Psst...they're not guidelines.  They're results of research.


But, ah, Wyle E. San....  the question of topic is:



			
				CG said:
			
		

> are men (even in their mid-30s) so superficial that looks mean EVERYTHING? You figure that single men in their 30s are probably looking for the same thing as my friend (commitment, settling down) and realize that the choices are thinning out (choice word, huh?  ) as they get older. I'm not saying that the guy has to settle on a "fatty," but why not give someone like my friend a "second glance" before passing her up just because she is overweight?
> 
> Am I way off here?  Are guys really only focused on looks? Maybe I'm too naive...



I believe Mr. Sleuth posted an opinion then wanted to back it up by statistics..  But then brought on MISERY by bringing more "why's" with religion and biblical solutions when noone really asked for it - or cared by a few pages of it.  It seems to be an "is what it is" situation.

As the question has been posted to men, I haven't really given any lengthy answer - just liking some and getting nauseated by some of the replies...

So, where were we?


----------



## BuddyLee

sleuth said:
			
		

> But I think you're missing the point. As head the household, my responsibility is the welfare of the family. If I determine that a decision I make is somehow going to cause damage to the family, such as... Momma or kid ain't happy and this will really affect her ability to be happy... then I don't make that decision.


I think your missing my point. From what you've posted, I don't see your wife as the 'submissive' type. Do you really think she'd give you full decision making over her kid? Do you think any woman would?


----------



## jazz lady

RoseRed said:
			
		

> It shows absolutely no respect for the other parties opinion.


My point exactly.  I want somebody who will respect me enough to listen to my opinions and NOT go against my wishes because HE feels it's right.  Make the decision WITH me as my opinion is as valid as yours.  To do anything other that is greatly offensive to me.


----------



## kingvjack

I 'm not readin all this crap.... Stop being so gay...

If that chics a tank or whatever tell her to stop browsing the net and go out to meet people. Even if their biggins, some dude will always walk up sometime, and talk to her. No guy is gonna sit in front of their computer and choose to speak to an animal if he's got 30 pics of descent chics at his disposal to chat with...


----------



## sleuth

cattitude said:
			
		

> Good luck, Sleuthy.
> 
> You can talk all you want about your "opinions" on relationships, but until you sleep with, eat with, pee with, puke with, laugh with, clean house with and whatever else you do in a real relationship, your opinions ain't worth crap.  You cannot fully know a person, how you both will react to life until you LIVE with them.


 I agree Catt, you can't know a person until you live with them.
And we pray on this subject daily.
We both want our family to be strong, like a rock.
And we both believe that strength comes from the big Dude upstairs.

I personally pray nightly that I will be a good step-dad and dad, giving our kids the tools they need to grow up and be strong people themselves.

And I also pray nightly that I will be a good husband. And I look to the Bible to give me guidance on how to do that.

What else can I do? If there's a perfect couple out there who will give me an example of something to strive for, then let me know. But I've never met a couple who was perfect. If I am to be a good husband and father, who should be my example? Certainly not my dad. Certainly not any imperfect man I know. I really only have one person to look to for that, and that's the big Dude upstairs.


----------



## migtig

kingvjack said:
			
		

> I 'm not readin all this crap.... Stop being so gay...


  Dang - I already gave you green.


----------



## kingvjack

migtig said:
			
		

> Dang - I already gave you green.


I had to add to it....


----------



## RoseRed

Call me stupid, but I didn't know that God was ever married.  :shrug:


----------



## sleuth

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> I think your missing my point. From what you've posted, I don't see your wife as the 'submissive' type. Do you really think she'd give you full decision making over her kid? Do you think any woman would?


 Short answer is... I don't know.
But being that she is a Christian woman, and this is what many of the Christian churches teach (if you do an online search on the subject), she would sure give it her best shot.

Nobody is perfect. I'm sure we'll both fall short.


----------



## Toxick

jazz lady said:
			
		

> And that just blows my mind that ANYONE would let somebody make a decision for them that affects them regardless of their opinion on the subject.  Absolutely amazing.  I just can't get past that.




I must have missed the part where he said that he's going to make a decision regardless of her opinion on the subject. In fact, in review, he seems to imply that she has a good deal of influence on those decisions.



In any kind of bound group - whether it's a couple, a family of 12, or a classroom - *someone* has to have the final say-so. If Sleuth and his SO have decided that it's him - whether based on the bible, or an IQ test - then so be it. There's still plenty of P-Whipped guys out there, for everyone to admire.


I think that a lot of people have their hackles up in this thread, and are reading into it things which are not said, or deliberately misinterpreting them.


----------



## RoseRed

jazz lady said:
			
		

> My point exactly.  I want somebody who will respect me enough to listen to my opinions and NOT go against my wishes because HE feels it's right.  Make the decision WITH me as my opinion is as valid as yours.  To do anything other that is greatly offensive to me.



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jazz lady again.


----------



## pixiegirl

Hey Sleuth.  What makes you "head of household?"


----------



## crabcake

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Hey Sleuth.  What makes you "head of household?"


 dur ... H&R Block said it


----------



## kingvjack

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Hey Sleuth.  What makes you "head of household?"


It's on your taxes...


----------



## DoWhat

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Hey Sleuth.  What makes you "head of household?"


The Bible :dur:


----------



## crabcake

kingvjack said:
			
		

> It's on your taxes...


 Pinch poke you owe me a coke


----------



## RoseRed

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Hey Sleuth.  What makes you "head of household?"


He lives alone.  Master of his Domain.


----------



## sleuth

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Hey Sleuth.  What makes you "head of household?"


 That's just going to get a whole bunch more UFB's if I answer that Pixie...
I think most everyone here knows why I and my girlfriend believe that I would be head of the family. I'll just tell ya that it's in the Bible, and that's what our marriage will be based on.


----------



## RoseRed

Why haven't you made the decision for her to move here since this is where you work and own a home?


----------



## sleuth

Maybe we should talk about divorces... :shrug:


----------



## DoWhat

sleuth said:
			
		

> That's just going to get a whole bunch more UFB's if I answer that Pixie...
> I think most everyone here knows why I and my girlfriend believe that I would be head of the family. I'll just tell ya that it's in the *Bible*, and that's what our marriage will be based on.


I win.


----------



## pixiegirl

sleuth said:
			
		

> That's just going to get a whole bunch more UFB's if I answer that Pixie...
> I think most everyone here knows why I and my girlfriend believe that I would be head of the family. I'll just tell ya that it's in the Bible, and that's what our marriage will be based on.



Is it cause you're the provider so to speak?  Just humor me for a second.


----------



## sleuth

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Why haven't you made the decision for her to move here since this is where you work and own a home?


 I want to live closer to my family. After many long hours of discussion on the subject, we agreed that it was in the best interest of our family unit (me, her, and her daughter) to live close to our parents and the daughter's extended family.


----------



## cattitude

RoseRed said:
			
		

> He lives alone.  Master of his Domain.



I'm out!!! :smackingmoneydownontable:


----------



## mainman

RoseRed said:
			
		

> He lives alone. Master of his Domain.


I love seinfeldisms... Not that theres anything wrong with that...


----------



## sleuth

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Is it cause you're the provider so to speak?  Just humor me for a second.


 If you want me to answer that, sure I'll humor you... 
Are you going to ask "what if she makes more money?"


----------



## jazz lady

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Why haven't you made the decision for her to move here since this is where you work and own a home?


  Not to attack you Sleuth, but as the head of the household with your job and livelihood here, which is your means to provide for her and having not luck finding a job out there, why are YOU trying to go where SHE lives?


----------



## crabcake

sleuth said:
			
		

> Maybe we should talk about divorces... :shrug:


 You're planning your divorce _already_?


----------



## sleuth

jazz lady said:
			
		

> Not to attack you Sleuth, but as the head of the household with your job and livelihood here, which is your means to provide for her and having not luck finding a job out there, why are YOU trying to go where SHE lives?


 Already answered that...
And we already agreed that I would give my best shot at finding a good job out there. If I don't, after awhile... we'll revisit the subject.


----------



## ylexot

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> But, ah, Wyle E. San....  the question of topic is:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe Mr. Sleuth posted an opinion then wanted to back it up by statistics..  But then brought on MISERY by bringing more "why's" with religion and biblical solutions when noone really asked for it - or cared by a few pages of it.  It seems to be an "is what it is" situation.
> 
> As the question has been posted to men, I haven't really given any lengthy answer - just liking some and getting nauseated by some of the replies...
> 
> So, where were we?


Nope.  He started with the research/statistics/"genetic programming" and moved into religion from there.


----------



## pixiegirl

sleuth said:
			
		

> If you want me to answer that, sure I'll humor you...
> Are you going to ask "what if she makes more money?"



Actually I was going to ask what the bible says in regards to a man/woman providing for thier family.  

I'm actually inclined to agre with you in part.


----------



## sleuth

crabcake said:
			
		

> You're planning your divorce _already_?


 No, I meant everyone else's divorces... 
After all, it seems we have a lot of experts here on what makes a relationship work.


----------



## crabcake

sleuth said:
			
		

> No, I meant everyone else's divorces...
> After all, it seems we have a lot of experts here on what makes a relationship work.


 That's right ... there are a LOT of people in here with experience in relationships/marriages and many of them are divorced (me included). Having lived and learned, some of these folks perhaps have already traveled down the road you are attempting to pave, and are trying to open your eyes to the fact that there is more than one road you can travel down to have a successful relationship/marriage.


----------



## 404

Sleuth's wedding vows. 

"I am Sleuth, the man, hear me roar.
The Bible says do it my way or it's out the door."


----------



## sleuth

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Actually I was going to ask what the bible says in regards to a man/woman providing for thier family.
> 
> I'm actually inclined to agre with you in part.


 I don't know that this is Biblical... but this is what I think Dr. Harley has to say about it...

If the man is able... he should be the financial provider of basic needs: clothing, housing, food. It should come out of his paycheck. 

Any luxuries should come out of the wife's paycheck, if she so chooses to work.
And if the man cannot make enough to provide those basic needs... he should improve himself in order to do so.

If he's unable to because of some disability... well.. I don't know. I suppose then it comes down to whether he and she can live with the fact that that need has to be met by someone else.

I don't know if that's Harley's exact opinion, but I believe I read that once.

And I'm inclined to agree.


----------



## workin hard

My 2 cents....If a marriage or any relationship is anything but 50/50, it doesn't work.  

I refuse to let my husband make my life decisions.  Get his input and opinion, but the decision lies with me.

Now when it comes to our house and kids (things we share) then we will make the decision together.

The whole "I have the final say" BS is crap and should be treated as such.


----------



## sleuth

crabcake said:
			
		

> That's right ... there are a LOT of people in here with experience in relationships/marriages and many of them are divorced (me included). Having lived and learned, some of these folks perhaps have already traveled down the road you are attempting to pave, and are trying to open your eyes to the fact that there is more than one road you can travel down to have a successful relationship/marriage.


 True, but a lot of folks are really gungho about saying they know exactly how to make it work, but as I see it, there's a big percentage of them who don't have the record to back it up.

We're all trying, right? We're all doing the best we can.
And this is my shot at it. Take it or leave it. :shrug:


----------



## pixiegirl

sleuth said:
			
		

> I don't know that this is Biblical... but this is what I think Dr. Harley has to say about it...
> 
> If the man is able... he should be the financial provider of basic needs: clothing, housing, food. It should come out of his paycheck.
> 
> Any luxuries should come out of the wife's paycheck, if she so chooses to work.
> And if the man cannot make enough to provide those basic needs... he should improve himself in order to do so.
> 
> If he's unable to because of some disability... well.. I don't know. I suppose then it comes down to whether he and she can live with the fact that that need has to be met by someone else.
> 
> I don't know if that's Harley's exact opinion, but I believe I read that once.
> 
> And I'm inclined to agree.



Damn, I need to find a man to agree to these terms....  I can be subservant as long as I get to go shopping.    Hey yxelot, you ready to take the plunge?


----------



## mAlice

Toxick said:
			
		

> I must have missed the part where he said that he's going to make a decision regardless of her opinion on the subject. In fact, in review, he seems to imply that she has a good deal of influence on those decisions.



Try this:



			
				sleuth said:
			
		

> She can persuade all she wants. And if she's successful at changing my mind, then that's ok.
> Ultimately, *the final decision rests with me.*
> 
> But make no mistake. If I make a decision that I know will make her unhappy, I do it at my own peril. And if I make a decision that leads her into sin, I do it at my own peril. It would have to be a pretty dang bulletproof reason if I were to make a decision that I thought would make her unhappy.
> 
> If it's not in the Bible it should be, but actually I think there is something in there that says the wife sets the tone of the home. In today's language, "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."
> 
> Really, the only decision I can think of right now that would be that big would be moving for a new job. I'm sure there's others, but that's the one that sticks out to me.


----------



## sleuth

elaine said:
			
		

> Try this:


 Sorry... but saying "the final decision rests with me" doesn't mean that I never took her input into consideration.

Nice try, though.


----------



## BuddyLee

sleuth said:
			
		

> Sorry... but saying "the final decision rests with me" doesn't mean that I never took her input into consideration.
> 
> Nice try, though.


Your missing the point.  You can take her input into consideration all you want but in the end it is your decision, not hers.


----------



## jazz lady

sleuth said:
			
		

> Sorry... but saying "the final decision rests with me" doesn't mean that I never took her input into consideration.
> 
> Nice try, though.


No, but you still made the decision REGARDLESS of her opinion.  That to me smacks of high-handedness and is NOT a good basis for a relationship IMHO.


----------



## mAlice

sleuth said:
			
		

> Sorry... but saying "the final decision rests with me" doesn't mean that I never took her input into consideration.
> 
> Nice try, though.




You're still saying you have the final call, whether you consider her input or not.

Nice try, though.


----------



## sleuth

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> Your missing the point.  You can take her input into consideration all you want but in the end it is your decision, not hers.


 Let's look at it this way.
If you make your family head both the mother and the father, and the mother and father have a disagreement, what happens?

Let's take a vote! Dang. One to One. I guess we can't do anything but sit here with our thumbs up our butts. 

You're paralyzed.
Your family suffers as a result.

How is that beneficial?


----------



## Christy

sleuth said:
			
		

> True, but a lot of folks are really gungho about saying they know exactly how to make it work, but as I see it, there's a big percentage of them who don't have the record to back it up.


  I've got ten years under my belt.  But you'd really not want to hear my advice on secrets to a successful marriage.


----------



## sleuth

sleuth said:
			
		

> Let's look at it this way.
> If you make your family head both the mother and the father, and the mother and father have a disagreement, what happens?
> 
> Let's take a vote! Dang. One to One. I guess we can't do anything but sit here with our thumbs up our butts.
> 
> You're paralyzed.
> Your family suffers as a result.
> 
> How is that beneficial?


 I'm calling it a day... I'll check in later I guess...


----------



## mAlice

Christy said:
			
		

> I've got ten years under my belt.  But you'd really not want to hear my advice on secrets to a successful marriage.



  Almost 23 years.


----------



## Christy

Oh, and back to the original topic.  Vrai says it best with "there is a butt for every seat". Rather than be bummed that she's not getting responses, she should be thrilled that it's less losers to weed through in order to find Mr. Right. :shrug:


----------



## BuddyLee

sleuth said:
			
		

> Let's look at it this way.
> If you make your family head both the mother and the father, and the mother and father have a disagreement, what happens?
> 
> Let's take a vote! Dang. One to One. I guess we can't do anything but sit here with our thumbs up our butts.
> 
> You're paralyzed.
> Your family suffers as a result.
> 
> How is that beneficial?


Sorry Sleuth but that is a harsh reality of life and marriage, even I know that and I'm not even married.  There will always be conflicts in any relationship, if one dominates the power the other will get to a point of feeling almost useless or a 'robot slave'.  You then lose your wife, you're paralyzed and your family suffers as a result.


----------



## mAlice

Christy said:
			
		

> Oh, and back to the original topic.  Vrai says it best with "there is a butt for every seat". Rather than be bummed that she's not getting responses, she should be thrilled that it's less losers to weed through in order to find Mr. Right. :shrug:



Sometimes a butt needs two seats.  Just ask the Keller bus riders.


----------



## pixiegirl

Call me crazy but as long as the man is loving and has the best interest of the family in mind I'd prefer he be more dominant.  I find it very appealing when a man is a "man."  Minus all the chest beating b/s.  I actually agree with Sleuth.


----------



## otter

Christy said:
			
		

> Oh, and back to the original topic.  Vrai says it best with "there is a butt for every seat". Rather than be bummed that she's not getting responses, she should be thrilled that it's less losers to weed through in order to find Mr. Right. :shrug:



Why must all your posts be a suckup to Vrai??


----------



## workin hard

sleuth said:
			
		

> Let's look at it this way.
> If you make your family head both the mother and the father, and the mother and father have a disagreement, what happens?
> 
> Let's take a vote! Dang. One to One. I guess we can't do anything but sit here with our thumbs up our butts.
> 
> You're paralyzed.
> Your family suffers as a result.
> 
> How is that beneficial?


COMPROMISE


----------



## mAlice

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Call me crazy but as long as the man is loving and has the best interest of the family in mind I'd prefer he be more dominant.  I find it very appealing when a man is a "man."  Minus all the chest beating b/s.  I actually agree with Sleuth.



Then you should try it.  :shrug:


----------



## pixiegirl

elaine said:
			
		

> Then you should try it.  :shrug:




Next time I will.  I'm tired of being the boss all the time and having the weight of every choice rest on my shoulders because I HAD to make it since no one else was.


----------



## Toxick

elaine said:
			
		

> Try this:



Thank you for translating English into English.

And thank you for totally ignoring my point.


I read it.
I read it subjectively without a chip on my shoulder about it.

I didn't conveniently ignore the part where he mentions his SO's influence over his decisions - which counteracts the phrase "regardless of her opinion on the subject".





When you're in a boat, someone has to steer. Even if everyone aboard is a Captain.


----------



## pixiegirl

I agreed with Sleuth.  I need to go home and shower.


----------



## jazz lady

sleuth said:
			
		

> Let's look at it this way.
> If you make your family head both the mother and the father, and the mother and father have a disagreement, what happens?
> 
> Let's take a vote! Dang. One to One. I guess we can't do anything but sit here with our thumbs up our butts.
> 
> You're paralyzed.
> Your family suffers as a result.
> 
> How is that beneficial?


Now you're just being silly.  It's called "WORKING TOGETHER TO FIND A SOLUTION" as opposed to "I'M THE MAN AND I SAID SO."  It takes two to tango and MAKE a relationship work, NOT just overriding somebody else's opinion to be a tie-breaker.  It's hard work - VERY hard work at times - to make it succeed.


----------



## mAlice

Toxick said:
			
		

> Thank you for translating English into English.
> 
> And thank you for totally ignoring my point.
> 
> 
> I read it.
> I read it subjectively without a chip on my shoulder about it.
> 
> I didn't conveniently ignore the part where he mentions his SO's influence over his decisions - which counteracts the phrase "regardless of her opinion on the subject".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you're in a boat, someone has to steer. Even if everyone aboard is a Captain.



I read that part, and I posted it for you to read.  YOU are conveniently ignoring that HE has the final decision regardless of her input or opinion because he thinks he knows what's best for everyone.


----------



## mAlice

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> I agreed with Sleuth.  I need to go home and shower.



Don't forget to take your brillo pads with you to the shower.


----------



## sleuth

jazz lady said:
			
		

> Now you're just being silly.  It's called "WORKING TOGETHER TO FIND A SOLUTION" as opposed to "I'M THE MAN AND I SAID SO."  It takes two to tango and MAKE a relationship work, NOT just overriding somebody else's opinion to be a tie-breaker.  It's hard work - VERY hard work at times - to make it succeed.


 When one makes a decision, it's rarely a choice of A or B... generally, it's a choice of A, B, C, D, E, F, blah blah blah...

And "working together to find a solution" is the part where wife "influences" her husband by explaining her opinions and saying what she wants... and usually the choice that is picked winds up being the solution that you both came up with together.

Sometimes, there is no compromise. It's rare, but it happens. And that's when it's time for someone to step up to the plate. In my family, we agree ahead of time, before we become a family. That person is me.

Ok.. now I'm seriously going home. Good day.


----------



## jazz lady

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Next time I will. I'm tired of being the boss all the time and having the weight of every choice rest on my shoulders because I HAD to make it since no one else was.


That's very different from his scenario. It was FORCED on you and not your choice.

Again, partners should be equals and work equally as hard in the relationship. Sounds like yours wasn't. I understand completely and it's the main reason why I'm breaking free.


----------



## CityGrl

Wow, I think I penedacanofworms: with this thread.


----------



## jazz lady

sleuth said:
			
		

> When one makes a decision, it's rarely a choice of A or B... generally, it's a choice of A, B, C, D, E, F, blah blah blah...
> 
> And "working together to find a solution" is the part where wife "influences" her husband by explaining her opinions and saying what she wants... and usually the choice that is picked winds up being the solution that you both came up with together.
> 
> Sometimes, there is no compromise. It's rare, but it happens. And that's when it's time for someone to step up to the plate. In my family, we agree ahead of time, before we become a family. That person is me.
> 
> Ok.. now I'm seriously going home. Good day.


Again, I don't want to "influence" - I want to BE part of the decision where my opinion counts as much as his.  It's MY life, not just an appendage of his.  It's also OUR life and we both are in it.

And I've NEVER had a situation in 25+ years of relationships where SOME compromise couldn't be found.  NEVER.


----------



## CityGrl

jazz lady said:
			
		

> Again, I don't want to "influence" - I want to BE part of the decision where my opinion counts as much as his.  It's MY life, not just an appendage of his.  It's also OUR life and we both are in it.
> 
> And I've NEVER had a situation in 25+ years of relationships where SOME compromise couldn't be found.  NEVER.



Okay, here's my current situation:

Bf has a life decision to make: either A or B.  His feeling is that the final decision is his, but he wouldn't make that decision without considering me and us.  My opinion is, it's his life decision and he should make whatever the best choice for him is.  Of course, I gave my opinion, but told him I would be there for him either way.  Isn't that how a relationship works?

Of course, if he didn't at least CONSIDER my opinion, there would be a problem.


----------



## jazz lady

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Okay, here's my current situation:
> 
> Bf has a life decision to make: either A or B. His feeling is that the final decision is his, but he wouldn't make that decision without considering me and us. My opinion is, it's his life decision and he should make whatever the best choice for him is. Of course, I gave my opinion, but told him I would be there for him either way. Isn't that how a relationship works?


Yes, it is.    But again, it's not you saying it has to be A and him picking B because HE thinks it's better and HE makes the decision, period.  THAT is my point.



> Of course, if he didn't at least CONSIDER my opinion, there would be a problem.


Exactly.  It should NEVER be that way.


----------



## mAlice

CityGrl said:
			
		

> Okay, here's my current situation:
> 
> Bf has a life decision to make: either A or B.  His feeling is that the final decision is his, but he wouldn't make that decision without considering me and us.  My opinion is, it's his life decision and he should make whatever the best choice for him is.  Of course, I gave my opinion, but told him I would be there for him either way.  Isn't that how a relationship works?
> 
> Of course, if he didn't at least CONSIDER my opinion, there would be a problem.




Not all decisions are life altering.  What if the decision is just about what color to paint the wall?  His decision.  What clothes she should wear?  His decision.  What they should have for dinner?  His decision.  Who should cook dinner?  His decision.  When he always has the final say, there's really no point in her even having an opinion.


----------



## Toxick

elaine said:
			
		

> YOU are conveniently ignoring that HE has the final decision



I'm not ignoring that.




			
				elaine said:
			
		

> regardless of her input or opinion because he thinks he knows what's best for everyone.




But I *am* ignoring that, because it's a bunch of emotionally-driven 


When I packed up my family and moved to Arizona, guess who had the final say-so.

Your's Truly.


I talked to my wife about it at great lengths, and we had a whole lot of issues to discuss. It turns out she agreed that we should come, and we were pretty much in sync with all the things that had to happen, but if I had said, "You know, this isn't going to work... we need more time", or any of the hundred things to put the kibosh on it, we would not have come. On the other hand, if _she_ had said, "we shouldn't go", I most definitly would have listened to her because she has an incredible amount of influence in my decisions.

Yes, we agreed to come here... but when you get right down to the nitty-gritty where the shorthairs grow, it was my decision. *I* had to sell the house. *I* had to get another job. *I* had to transport her and the children 3000 miles. *I* had to keep us in hotels until *I* could get another house. 

I didn't make this decision to come "regardless" of what she said, and had I chosen to stay, that would not have been "regardless" of her input either.




To imply that I was ignorant or apathetic to my wife's feelings in this matter would make me fair-to-middling irate.


----------



## mAlice

Toxick said:
			
		

> I'm not ignoring that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I *am* ignoring that, because it's a bunch of emotionally-driven
> 
> 
> When I packed up my family and moved to Arizona, guess who had the final say-so.
> 
> Your's Truly.
> 
> 
> I talked to my wife about it at great lengths, and we had a whole lot of issues to discuss. It turns out she agreed that we should come, and we were pretty much in sync with all the things that had to happen, but if I had said, "You know, this isn't going to work... we need more time", or any of the hundred things to put the kibosh on it, we would not have come. On the other hand, if _she_ had said, "we shouldn't go", I most definitly would have listened to her because she has an incredible amount of influence in my decisions.
> 
> Yes, we agreed to come here... but when you get right down to the nitty-gritty where the shorthairs grow, it was my decision. *I* had to sell the house. *I* had to get another job. *I* had to transport her and the children 3000 miles. *I* had to keep us in hotels until *I* could get another house.
> 
> I didn't make this decision to come "regardless" of what she said, and had I chosen to stay, that would not have been "regardless" of her input either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To imply that I was ignorant or apathetic to my wife's feelings in this matter would make me fair-to-middling irate.



You should read this.  It's not even in the same neighborhood.


----------



## CityGrl

elaine said:
			
		

> Not all decisions are life altering.  What if the decision is just about what color to paint the wall?  His decision.  What clothes she should wear?  His decision.  What they should have for dinner?  His decision.  Who should cook dinner?  His decision.  When he always has the final say, there's really no point in her even having an opinion.



I see your point...

I don't want the bf to have total control, but I also don't want to be controlling.  I just feel like there should be a happy medium...


----------



## mAlice

CityGrl said:
			
		

> I see your point...
> 
> I don't want the bf to have total control, but I also don't want to be controlling.  I just feel like there should be a happy medium...




A healthy relationship will have a happy medium, and each party will concede as they see fit to best benefit the relationship.


----------



## RoseRed

Methinks he should move to Stepford.


----------



## Toxick

elaine said:
			
		

> You should read this.  It's not even in the same neighborhood.




Read what?

I'm not sure what you're referring to.


----------



## mAlice

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Methinks he should move to Stepford.



There are a lot of men that make me wish there was such a place.  We could send them all there and be done with them.  I bet they wouldn't let their submissive wives play on the forums and post stupid, personal stuff.


----------



## mAlice

Toxick said:
			
		

> Read what?
> 
> I'm not sure what you're referring to.



I'm referring to your post.


----------



## Toxick

elaine said:
			
		

> I'm referring to your post.



And it's not in the same neighborhood as, what?




Sorry - I just don't understand your reply. My head's kinda fuzzy, and I've been staring at this monitor for six hours now.

Maybe I should go get some more coffee.


----------



## RoseRed

elaine said:
			
		

> There are a lot of men that make me wish there was such a place.  We could send them all there and be done with them.  I bet they wouldn't let their submissive wives play on the forums and post stupid, personal stuff.



Let us pray.


----------



## mAlice

Toxick said:
			
		

> And it's not in the same neighborhood as, what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry - I just don't understand your reply. My head's kinda fuzzy, and I've been staring at this monitor for six hours now.
> 
> Maybe I should go get some more coffee.





Yes, coffee might be a good idea.


----------



## mAlice

RoseRed said:
			
		

> Let us pray.



Oh, let's not.


----------



## Toxick

elaine said:
			
		

> Yes, coffee might be a good idea.




I still don't get it.
You said I should read my own post. OK, done.

It's not even in the same neighborhood as... what? Sleuths' posts?




'Cause if that's what you meant, I'm going to have to go on ahead and disagree with you there.


----------



## RoseRed

elaine said:
			
		

> Oh, let's not.


You convined me, okay.


----------



## CityGrl

On a different note, what's for dinner?

I wonder if sleuth's gf is cooking him exactly what HE wants right now...


----------



## mAlice

Toxick said:
			
		

> I still don't get it.
> You said I should read my own post. OK, done.
> 
> It's not even in the same neighborhood as... what? Sleuths' posts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Cause if that's what you meant, I'm going to have to go on ahead and disagree with you there.




Then we have nothing else to discuss.


----------



## mAlice

CityGrl said:
			
		

> On a different note, what's for dinner?
> 
> I wonder if sleuth's gf is cooking him exactly what HE wants right now...




I don't think they're even in the same state right now, so she's probably preparing whatever she wants.


----------



## CityGrl

elaine said:
			
		

> I don't think they're even in the same state right now, so she's probably preparing whatever she wants.



She'd better not get used to that.


----------



## Toxick

elaine said:
			
		

> Then we have nothing else to discuss.





Can someone explain to me what the hell just happened here?


----------



## mAlice

CityGrl said:
			
		

> She'd better not get used to that.



:shrug:

I just find the whole scenerio too weird for words.


----------



## CityGrl

elaine said:
			
		

> :shrug:
> 
> I just find the whole scenerio too weird for words.


----------



## sleuth

CityGrl said:
			
		

> I see your point...
> 
> I don't want the bf to have total control, but I also don't want to be controlling.  I just feel like there should be a happy medium...


 And I never said the husband should be controlling.
:shrug: Most people skipped over most of the part that says the husband is supposed to be gracious and respect his wife. And that a husband who makes decisions without consulting his wife is kind of a loser.


----------



## Christy

otter said:
			
		

> Why must all your posts be a suckup to Vrai??


  To maintain my status as her favorite.


----------



## mAlice

Christy said:
			
		

> To maintain my status as her favorite.




What makes you think you're her favorite?  I'm the one that gets away with everything.


----------



## morganj614

Do I see a Christy smilie? *NO*


----------



## Christy

elaine said:
			
		

> What makes you think you're her favorite? I'm the one that gets away with everything.


See, you're the problem child. I'm the angel.  THAT's why she loves me best!


----------



## mAlice

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Do I see a Christy smilie? *NO*




TYVM.  I'll only trip you once tomorrow, but I'm still takin' your lunch money.


----------



## Christy

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Do I see a Christy smilie? *NO*


That's because any smilie to fit my personality would be X rated.


----------



## mAlice

Christy said:
			
		

> That's because any smilie to fit my personality would be X rated.




I can see the Zyban is causing hallucinations.  You should call your doc in the morning, hon.


----------



## morganj614

Christy said:
			
		

> That's because any smilie to fit my personality would be X rated.



 I see one in a hot tub holding a bottle of wine...


----------



## Christy

elaine said:
			
		

> I can see the Zyban is causing hallucinations. You should call your doc in the morning, hon.


  I think you're right.


----------



## RoseRed

elaine said:
			
		

> I can see the Zyban is causing hallucinations.  You should call your doc in the morning, hon.


----------



## ylexot

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Damn, I need to find a man to agree to these terms....  I can be subservant as long as I get to go shopping.    Hey yxelot, you ready to take the plunge?


Hmmm, I think maybe we need to get to know each other a little better first.  For example, do you know how to spell my name?


----------



## Instigator

*Better Late Than Never*

This is my first post on your friendly message board so I thought I would jump in on the tail end of and interesting question.  I did not read the previous replies so as not to be biased.

First off, many people who post on dating service boards do so more out of curiosity and many do no have the nerve to follow through beyond e-mail exchanges.  There is something to be said about this insecure sort of person but that is a different subject. Regardless, not all apparant rejections are based on the likes or dislikes of a given photo.

In my mind if someone is looking to meet another person via an on-line dating service than it is in their best interest to be as honest as possible as eventually you run the risk of having to meet your mystery date and the out come may be upleasant if you have purposfully decieved someone.  Truth be know, there is someone out there waiting for all of us and it is a combination of patience, persistence and a bunch of luck if we stumble onto the right match.

I speak the obvious when I state that there is a big difference between an intimate relationship versus a strong friendship with the opposite sex.  My friendships are not based on a ladies weight, age, looks, financial resources, social standing, education or any other discriminators that take away from her values as a person but rather how she treats me as a friend.  She could weigh 300 pounds and if we clicked as friends it would be and honest and true friendship. 

On the other hand, in order to want to go beyond friendships to a more intimate realationship, I as a person (just my opinion) have to be attracted to a lady and that is defined by much more than weight alone.  I could very easily be attracted to a lady that was extreamly short, very tall, who has toes that look like they grew from a potato, hair that flew everywhere (but was clean), wore clothing that was loud and miss matched, worked in a sardine packing factory, or even grew up in Southern MD (smile).  On the other hand I would normally not seek out an intimate relationship with a really heavy lady.  However, a friendship with a heavy person could eventually develop into an intimate realationship.  

last but certainly not least is how do you define the description of  "rather large".  It is one thing to weigh 175 pounds when your body frame and age dictates 130 but if your over 200 pounds and climbing steady than we move from the "chubby" and "Plump" category to something of greater significance. 
If someone passes instant juedgement on someone just because they are a bit over weight than shame on them and your friend should thank him for the favor.  On the other hand if she is only in her mid 30's and a bit over weight than for her own good will and benefit and not for someone on EHarmony, maybe she needs to make an attempt to fit into a size or two smaller.  As I have aged I have NOT put on considerable weight but it certainly has shifted and repositioned itself a bit.  Last I looked I have not made the cover of any ladies magazines but I am comfortable with who I am and what I am as a person.  I would encourage your friend to bring forth the positive elements she has to offer which I assume are many and to establish a small goal to improve on the least significant aspect of her life that seems to have unfortunately the greatest impact to her self esteem and happiness. 

Thanks for the opportunity and this was different as I normally post on a Potomac River Message Board where the subject matter is much different.  Any ladies (Large or small) want to go fishing?

Jim

PS:  Good luck to your friend.


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## BuddyLee

Toxick said:
			
		

> *I* *I* *I* *I* *I* I  I chosen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was ignorant


There's No 'I' in TEAM.


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## crabcake

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> There's No 'I' in TEAM.


 There's no "we" either


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## BuddyLee

crabcake said:
			
		

> There's no "we" either


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## aps45819

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> There's No 'I' in TEAM.


 But there is T & A


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## BuddyLee

aps45819 said:
			
		

> But there is T & A


And that's all one really needs.  With that said, discussion closed.


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## aps45819

I can't believe how you women are beating up on Sleuth. We all know how things work. The woman says I want Italian for dinner, so the guy decides which Italian resturant they go to. If he drives to a chinese resturant, no nookie. 
She says I can't decide which shade of yellow to paint the wall, he can't tell the difference so he picks one. If he gets blue paint, no nookie. 



  Now let's hear from all the women that are saying no way in hell am I ever submissive that have never been on their knees naked in front of a man.


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## fttrsbeerwench

aps45819 said:
			
		

> Now let's hear from all the women that are saying no way in hell am I ever submissive that have never been on their knees naked in front of a man.


 
Did you read my personal ad on Eharmony?


Let's see. After more than a few drinkies tonight I feel compelled to make a serious comment on this topic..

I happen to be a fairly big girl.. I don't hide the fact that I'm not model skinny to anyone.. I have never dated an ugly man.. Or anyone I felt was beneath me. I don't think my wieght is any more a problem than a guy with a small pecker does. He still gets in there and gives it his all!! I know i'm a great kisser and a great  So, all you guys who think that only skinny chicks are quality..  You don't know what you're missing. 

As far as looking at a big girl and seeing someone who doesn't care, or is too lazy to take care of themselves.. That is not always the case..I have plenty of muscle, I don't eat all damn day.. I work every day. I can go out and work with the best of men in heat hauling lumber or whatever.I cot my own grass which is mostly hill (and it sucks). I am far from lazy. I have had three pregnancies and two illnesses. I drink too much and even though I get exersice i'm still chubby. I happen to think that if someone wants me.. They will take me as I am.. Fat comes and goes.. But true beauty is something that never fades. This fat girl has never been turned down or stood up. I always get my man.


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## pixiegirl

ylexot said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I think maybe we need to get to know each other a little better first.  For example, do you know how to spell my name?



  I can't even spell words written in English.    The important thing is I know how to pronounce it.  There will be no mishaps.


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## ylexot

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> I can't even spell words written in English.    The important thing is I know how to pronounce it.  There will be no mishaps.


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## migtig

fttrsbeerwench said:
			
		

> This fat girl has never been turned down or stood up. I always get my man.


I don't think you are fat nor chubby.  You got all the curves in all the right places.    As for build and muscle, I would much rather have you have my back in a brawl than most the men I know.  JMO.  Plus I know it's true you always get your man, while I who am size wise smaller than you, can sleep in a man's bed and still not get any.   

I  you - you are a goddess no matter what.


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## RoseRed

fttrsbeerwench said:
			
		

> Let's see. *After more than a few drinkies * tonight I feel compelled to make a serious comment on this topic..



I can tell


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## aps45819

migtig said:
			
		

> while I who am size wise smaller than you, can sleep in a man's bed and still not get any.


 That's what happens when you follow some guy home that's been drinking all day.


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## migtig

aps45819 said:
			
		

> That's what happens when you follow some guy home that's been drinking all day.


He was drinking water.  :shrug:


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## Wickedwrench

migtig said:
			
		

> He was drinking water. :shrug:


That's just wrong.


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## vraiblonde

Anyway, the correct answer is:





			
				CityGrl said:
			
		

> are men (even in their mid-30s) so superficial that looks mean EVERYTHING?


Yes.


----------



## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Anyway, the correct answer is:Yes.


We have been missing you, VraiMommy... and we have been behaving ourselves too...


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## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> We have been missing you, VraiMommy... and we have been behaving ourselves too...


I'm sure


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## rack'm

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I'm sure




It's been a total whinefest.....


----------



## Chasey_Lane

My husband _should_ be head of the household.  I want him to open jars, reach things on the top shelf in the cabinet, fix my vehicle when it doesn't sound right and promptly dispose of spiders and insects; all the things I can't or don't want to do.  

However, that doesn't mean I will let him disrespect me and treat me like I'm his property.  A marriage should be a partnership of equal giving and taking.


----------



## rack'm

*My resume.......*



			
				Chasey_Lane said:
			
		

> My husband _should_ be head of the household.  I want him to open jars, reach things on the top shelf in the cabinet, fix my vehicle when it doesn't sound right and promptly dispose of spiders and insects; all the things I can't or don't want to do.
> 
> However, that doesn't mean I will let him disrespect me and treat me like I'm his property.  A marriage should be a partnership of equal giving and taking.


   <img src="http://www.bthekey.com/jw4u/defaul1.gif">


----------



## daydreamer

Chasey_Lane said:
			
		

> My husband _should_ be head of the household.  I want him to open jars, reach things on the top shelf in the cabinet, fix my vehicle when it doesn't sound right and promptly dispose of spiders and insects; all the things I can't or don't want to do.
> 
> However, that doesn't mean I will let him disrespect me and treat me like I'm his property.  A marriage should be a partnership of equal giving and taking.


I guess if I have any chance of having anything with you past the b/f stage, I better start doing my "household" duties.


----------



## Sharon

_Sharon runs to check her wedding video_


----------



## Sharon

*whew!* 




I did not utter a single vow of submission.


----------



## RoseRed

Sharon said:
			
		

> *whew!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not utter a single vow of submission.


----------



## cattitude

When Otter and I got married, we were visting at the priest's house and he was going over the vows..."obey?"    You are kidding, right?  Catt is not repeating that word in her vows....nuh-uh, no way..no OBEY for me.  Took out that line...

True story.


----------



## The Jackoholic

CityGrl said:
			
		

> On a completely different note, it's amazing how different the online dating world is. You can be talking to someone and then BAM! it's over.


maybe thats what happened to him when his wife saw him talking to your friend,_BAM!_ right across the head,maybe it wasn't her photo.


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## Oz

cattitude said:
			
		

> When Otter and I got married, we were visting at the priest's house




Visting?   I thought you were supposed to wait until after marriage for that?


----------



## vraiblonde

Sharon said:
			
		

> I did not utter a single vow of submission.




Larry and I were married by a Jamaican minister so who knows what I agreed to  because I couldn't hardly understand a word he said.


----------



## BuddyLee

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Larry and I were married by a Jamaican minister so who knows what I agreed to because I couldn't hardly understand a word he said.


OMG Why Jamaican?


----------



## otter

Oz said:
			
		

> Visting?   I thought you were supposed to wait until after marriage for that?



Who says you have to wait to be social


----------



## jazz lady

otter said:
			
		

> Who says you have to wait to be social


  Who says indeed.


----------



## SmallTown

BuddyLee said:
			
		

> OMG Why Jamaican?


because they were married in Afghanistan


----------

