# Straighten me out



## vraiblonde

I just got back from a counseling session and I need a reality check.  Just a few simple questions, then I'll give you a scenario that may (or may not) change your mind.

First question:

What do you call it when someone takes something that doesn't belong to them, without the owner's knowledge, and keeps it until forced to return it?


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## Vrock

Stealing....


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## harleygirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I just got back from a counseling session and I need a reality check.  Just a few simple questions, then I'll give you a scenario that may (or may not) change your mind.
> 
> First question:
> 
> What do you call it when someone takes something that doesn't belong to them, without the owner's knowledge, and keeps it until forced to return it?


Stealing......


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## kom526

Yeah, that would theft in my book too.











 Unless you are talking about Larry stealing your heart.


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## nomoney

stealing, unless it involves a miss treated living thing. then its a good deed


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## jazz lady

If it's not yours and you take it without the owner's permission, it is pure and simple theft regardless of whether you were forced to give it back.


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## morganj614

Okay, next question...


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## mAlice

I can't wait to hear this.


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## rack'm

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I just got back from a counseling session and I need a reality check.  Just a few simple questions, then I'll give you a scenario that may (or may not) change your mind.
> 
> First question:
> 
> What do you call it when someone takes something that doesn't belong to them, without the owner's knowledge, and keeps it until forced to return it?




Your child?


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## pixiegirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I just got back from a counseling session and I need a reality check.  Just a few simple questions, then I'll give you a scenario that may (or may not) change your mind.
> 
> First question:
> 
> What do you call it when someone takes something that doesn't belong to them, without the owner's knowledge, and keeps it until forced to return it?



Stealing but depending on the relationship there may be more leaniancy (sp?).  For example, B took an overnight bag to use for work.  It was mine, he didn't ask and I saw it gone from my closet and asked him if he'd taken it.  He had.  He used it until I unpacked it for him and packed it with my hospital stuff (pre baby G).  My dad did something similar when I was younger with a bookbag of mine though in that case I never got it back and he still uses it to take to and from work to this very day.  If it's a familiar situation and something I'm not terribly attached to then I don't sweat the small stuff.


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## nomoney

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Stealing but depending on the relationship there may be more leaniancy (sp?). For example, B took an overnight bag to use for work. It was mine, he didn't ask and I saw it gone from my closet and asked him if he'd taken it. He had. He used it until I unpacked it for him and packed it with my hospital stuff (pre baby G). My dad did something similar when I was younger with a bookbag of mine though in that case I never got it back and he still uses it to take to and from work to this very day. If it's a familiar situation and something I'm not terribly attached to then I don't sweat the small stuff.


 
wow, thanks for the readers digest version


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## vraiblonde

Okay, next question:

What is it called when someone asks you, "What happened?" and you tell them a story that is not, in fact, what happened?


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## Vrock

That would be a lie.


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## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, next question:
> 
> What is it called when someone asks you, "What happened?" and you tell them a story that is not, in fact, what happened?



lying


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## jazz lady

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, next question:
> 
> What is it called when someone asks you, "What happened?" and you tell them a story that is not, in fact, what happened?



Lying...


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## vraiblonde

pixiegirl said:
			
		

>


I believe I already said that there would be scenarios to follow.  Do not get ahead.


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## Chasey_Lane

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> First question:
> 
> What do you call it when someone takes something that doesn't belong to them, without the owner's knowledge, and keeps it until forced to return it?


That would be "borrowing", Vrai.


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## rack'm

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, next question:
> 
> What is it called when someone asks you, "What happened?" and you tell them a story that is not, in fact, what happened?




Parenting..........


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## Chasey_Lane

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, next question:
> 
> What is it called when someone asks you, "What happened?" and you tell them a story that is not, in fact, what happened?


JPC


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## BS Gal

I think these are trick questions.


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## nomoney

rack'm said:
			
		

> Parenting..........


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## BuddyLee

rack'm said:
			
		

> Parenting..........


I look ahead and the best has yet to come.


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## nomoney

can we just stop with the 20 questions and get to the story here vrai? I have to pee. TIA


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## Mikeinsmd

Is Larry in trouble?


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## morganj614

nomoney said:
			
		

> can we just stop with the 20 questions and get to the story here vrai? I have to pee. TIA



Borrow mom's Depends and zip it!


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## pixiegirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I believe I already said that there would be scenarios to follow.  Do not get ahead.



Well I said stealing BUT I'm ok with little stealing so long as it's from a loved one.  This is the reason I don't let nomoney come over anymore.      I don't mind it here and there but damn, biatch started showing up with her shopping cart!


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## Ehesef

nomoney said:
			
		

> can we just stop with the 20 questions and get to the story here vrai? I have to pee. TIA


 At least I have a change of pants in my office.


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## BuddyLee

nomoney said:
			
		

> can we just stop with the 20 questions and get to the story here vrai? I have to pee. TIA


:divacupspillover:


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## nomoney

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Well I said stealing BUT I'm ok with little stealing so long as it's from a loved one. This is the reason I don't let nomoney come over anymore.  I don't mind it here and there but damn, biatch started showing up with her shopping cart!


 
Why you always gotta bring me up in these things?


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## vraiblonde

Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.

About the stealing:

Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.

Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"

So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?


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## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> About the stealing:
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> So that's the question - *is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke*?



Not if Z didn't go "Ha!".


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## nomoney

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying. So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke? Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no! Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?


 

yes, thats the excuse I always use when I get caught.


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## BuddyLee

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?


What is the nature of Z?


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## mamissa3

Guess it depends on what kind of sense of humor each person has.....


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## RoseRed

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Not if Z didn't go "Ha!".


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## pixiegirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?



Possible depending on what the item was.  Was it of any use to Z?  How important was it to A?  Important enough that A would notice sooner than later?


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## Mikeinsmd

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?


Stealing diva cups as a joke is not funny.


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## CandyRain

:shrug:  ANYTHING is possible.


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## mamissa3

EWWWW!!!! lol


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## BS Gal

Does Z usually play tricks on A?


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## mAlice

RoseRed said:
			
		

>






This is funny.


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## Ehesef

BS Gal said:
			
		

> Does Z usually play tricks on A?


 And how much "force" does it take for Z to return the item to A?


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## kwillia

BS Gal said:
			
		

> I think these are trick questions.


 They are not "black and white" questions. True answers would depend on specific circumstances.


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## nomoney

this reminds me of the that lady who asked if another child got hurt by your child and you were told what would you do about it thread and a woman named vrai came on and said something like "I hate these kinds of questions because you don't know the whole story from the beginning, so give us the whole story whack job"


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## BS Gal

And when you say "forced to return the item" or whatever you said, was violence involved?


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## RoseRed

elaine said:
			
		

> This is funny.


Indeed!


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## pixiegirl

kwillia said:
			
		

> They are not "black and white" questions. True answers would depend on specific circumstances.



That's what I said and nomo and vria yelled at me.    Hold me.


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## vraiblonde

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Possible depending on what the item was.  Was it of any use to Z?  Yes  How important was it to A?  Very important  Important enough that A would notice sooner than later? Yes, A noticed the second she left Z, returned home and dug in her purse for her item





			
				 BS Gal said:
			
		

> Does Z usually play tricks on A?


Yes, quite frequently.

Based on that, what do you all think probably happened?


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## Pandora

This is going to be one of those stories I hear 100's of times every week, I just know it.


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## rack'm

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?




Did Z snap her fingers in a specific formation while saying "ha ha"?


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## citysherry

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?



Sounds like "Z" has a future in politics.


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## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Yes, quite frequently.
> 
> Based on that, what do you all think probably happened?



 A Bare Minerals thief!


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## RoseRed

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Yes, quite frequently.
> 
> Based on that, what do you all think probably happened?


 A got pissed.


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## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> They are not "black and white" questions. True answers would depend on specific circumstances.


We'll get to that - right now we're dealing in just the facts, ma'am.


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## Ehesef

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Yes, quite frequently.
> 
> Based on that, what do you all think probably happened?


Does Z know how important said item is to A?


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## vraiblonde

Ehesef said:
			
		

> Does Z know how important said item is to A?


Yes


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## jazz lady

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Yes, quite frequently.
> 
> Based on that, what do you all think probably happened?



She got caught and came up with a lame ass excuse on the spot that isn't holding up to closer scrutiny.


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## Ehesef

jazz lady said:
			
		

> She got caught and came up with a lame ass excuse on the spot that isn't holding up to closer scrutiny.


DING DING DING


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## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?


It is possible Z didn't mean any ill harm, but Z not recognizing it to be a bad move does not make it any less of a bad move on Z's part. Guilty as charged.


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## vraiblonde

RoseRed said:
			
		

> A got pissed.


But what do you think the scenario is?  Is it still true stealing, or is it just a joke that got messed up?


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## Ehesef

Ehesef said:
			
		

> DING DING DING


Or Z is a meamie.


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## nomoney

this is ghey - I'm going to go pee


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## Nickel

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> But what do you think the scenario is?  Is it still true stealing, or is it just a joke that got messed up?


 Does Z have a history of similar behavior? :shrug:


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## BuddyLee

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Is it still true stealing, or is it just a joke that got messed up?


I think that depends on the relationship.


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## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> But what do you think the scenario is?  Is it still true stealing, or is it just a joke that got messed up?



Why lie if it was a joke? Why was "Z" forced to return the item if it was a joke?


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## RoseRed

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> But what do you think the scenario is?  Is it still true stealing, or is it just a joke that got messed up?



Stealing.  Especially if lame ass excuse doesn't hold water.


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## CMC122

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying. So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke? Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no! Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?


Haven't you had a similiar situation before?


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## citysherry

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> But what do you think the scenario is?  Is it still true stealing, or is it just a joke that got messed up?



It's sounding like a joke that got messed up - and now "Z" has to face the consequences for her actions even if her actions were meant to be funny.


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## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> But what do you think the scenario is?  Is it still true stealing, or is it just a joke that got messed up?


I already stated my view, but let me make it clearer. Z may have done it in "fun", but Z is also old enough to have known that it would be negatively received by A. Therefore, Z is bad and bad things should happen to Z.


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## PrepH4U

CMC122 said:
			
		

> Haven't you had a similiar situation before?


Thats what I was thinking, if I remember she put it in her pocket and forgot about it.


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## CMC122

PrepH4U said:
			
		

> Thats what I was thinking, if I remember she put it in her pocket and forgot about it.


Yeah, I think it was with a cousin or something.....


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## rack'm

*So, tell us A.........*

you actually went to counseling to deal with the guilt from the beat down you gave Z, correct??


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## PrepH4U

CMC122 said:
			
		

> Yeah, I think it was with a cousin or something.....


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## BS Gal

I think you should shoot her eye out.


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## Nanny Pam

BS Gal said:
			
		

> I think you should shoot her eye out.


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## vraiblonde

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Why lie if it was a joke?


Well, see, that's the problem.  I'd have believed it was a joke BUT when asked about the missing item, Z didn't tell the truth.  In fact, Z didn't tell the truth through several different stories.

Today (and in sessions past) I have been called "harsh" for suggesting that what Z did was "stealing".  And also for calling the resulting stories "lies".

My next question is:

Based on what you know (that Z took A's belonging without A's knowledge or permission, then told a story that was different than what actually happened), do you think it is harsh to use the terms "stealing" and "lying" to describe Z's behavior?


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## CMC122

It is what it is!  I don't think it's harsh at all


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## vraiblonde

rack'm said:
			
		

> you actually went to counseling to deal with the guilt from the beat down you gave Z, correct??


Not hardly


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## Ehesef

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Well, see, that's the problem.  I'd have believed it was a joke BUT when asked about the missing item, Z didn't tell the truth.  In fact, Z didn't tell the truth through several different stories.
> 
> Today (and in sessions past) I have been called "harsh" for suggesting that what Z did was "stealing".  And also for calling the resulting stories "lies".
> 
> My next question is:
> 
> Based on what you know (that Z took A's belonging without A's knowledge or permission, then told a story that was different than what actually happened), do you think it is harsh to use the terms "stealing" and "lying" to describe Z's behavior?


No. It is completely warranted. If Z was joking, she wouldn't have lied about it. She's a thief and a liar.


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## Nanny Pam

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Well, see, that's the problem.  I'd have believed it was a joke BUT when asked about the missing item, Z didn't tell the truth.  In fact, Z didn't tell the truth through several different stories.
> 
> Today (and in sessions past) I have been called "harsh" for suggesting that what Z did was "stealing".  And also for calling the resulting stories "lies".
> 
> My next question is:
> 
> Based on what you know (that Z took A's belonging without A's knowledge or permission, then told a story that was different than what actually happened), do you think it is harsh to use the terms "stealing" and "lying" to describe Z's behavior?




If the shoe fits.... :shrug:


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## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Well, see, that's the problem.  I'd have believed it was a joke BUT when asked about the missing item, Z didn't tell the truth.  In fact, Z didn't tell the truth through several different stories.
> Today (and in sessions past) I have been called "harsh" for suggesting that what Z did was "stealing".  And also for calling the resulting stories "lies".
> My next question is:
> Based on what you know (that Z took A's belonging without A's knowledge or permission, then told a story that was different than what actually happened), do you think it is harsh to use the terms "stealing" and "lying" to describe Z's behavior?



What is the counselor suggesting you call it? I was a tough parent. I would call it lying and stealing.


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## jazz lady

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Based on what you know (that Z took A's belonging without A's knowledge or permission, then told a story that was different than what actually happened), do you think it is harsh to use the terms "stealing" and "lying" to describe Z's behavior?



No, because it's the truth.  Obviously, if they're having a problem with it, they can't HANDLE the truth.


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## kwillia

CMC122 said:
			
		

> It is what it is!  I don't think it's harsh at all


 And let me add... it the taken item ends up damaged or missing.... Z would most definately be responsible for replacing said item PRONTO.


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## BS Gal

Stealing and lying would be a good way to describe the behavior.

Did Z offer an apology?


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## morganj614

jazz lady said:
			
		

> No, because it's the truth.  Obviously, if they're having a problem with it, they can't HANDLE the truth.



Why do I hear Jack Nicholsons voice?


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## Nickel

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Well, see, that's the problem.  I'd have believed it was a joke BUT when asked about the missing item, Z didn't tell the truth.  In fact, Z didn't tell the truth through several different stories.
> 
> Today (and in sessions past) I have been called "harsh" for suggesting that what Z did was "stealing".  And also for calling the resulting stories "lies".
> 
> My next question is:
> 
> Based on what you know (that Z took A's belonging without A's knowledge or permission, then told a story that was different than what actually happened), do you think it is harsh to use the terms "stealing" and "lying" to describe Z's behavior?


 You need a new therapist.


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## rack'm

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Based on what you know (that Z took A's belonging without A's knowledge or permission, then told a story that was different than what actually happened), do you think it is harsh to use the terms "stealing" and "lying" to describe Z's behavior?




NO and you should have administered a good beat down......


Your counselor is a panzy ass.......


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## BS Gal

In addition to the counseling, are you required to do community service?


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## jazz lady

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Why do I hear Jack Nicholsons voice?



I did too when I was typing it.


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## vraiblonde

morganj614 said:
			
		

> What is the counselor suggesting you call it?


She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.


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## mAlice

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.



You should ask at your next session what she suggests you call those things.


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## jazz lady

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.



Typical psychobabble.


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## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.


I wouldn't back down from those terms. Especially if this a reoccurring behavior.


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## Pete

It was a pair of your freaking underwear!   I said I was sorry Geeez why does it have to be such a big deal?  What do you want from me?


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## BS Gal

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.




Did you use the f word in front of either of those words when you were explaining it to the therapist?


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## mrweb

Nickel said:
			
		

> You need a new therapist.


 
If it walks like a duck.....

Nickel is right, I was thinking the same thing.  Does said therapist have kids?


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## MMDad

Why is this under Parenting? Shouldn't it be under Marraige?

Since Larry had no use for the Diva Cup, it wasn't really stealing. And since he kept the joke going by making up different stories, it wasn't lying. Also, since he is the Husband, everything is his anyway and he can't steal what he already owns.

Sounds to me like the marraige counselor is right.


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## vraiblonde

BS Gal said:
			
		

> Did Z offer an apology?


Z did not feel that an apology was necessary because it was "just a prank".  I think eventually, under duress, she did apologize.  But it was for A getting in trouble for "losing" her item, not for actually taking said item in the first place.


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## rack'm

*Hey Vrai.........*

Over the next three sessions.........take something off of her desk when she's not looking......see what she calls it.


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## vraiblonde

BS Gal said:
			
		

> Did you use the f word in front of either of those words when you were explaining it to the therapist?


No


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## BS Gal

rack'm said:
			
		

> Over the next three sessions.........take something off of her desk when she's not looking......see what she calls it.


And lie about it when she asks.


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## BuddyLee

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say. Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.


Happy Shining People Holding Hands.


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## mkd20012001

rack'm said:
			
		

> Over the next three sessions.........take something off of her desk when she's not looking......see what she calls it.


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## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Z did not feel that an apology was necessary because it was "just a prank".  I think eventually, under duress, she did apologize.  But it was for A getting in trouble for "losing" her item, not for actually taking said item in the first place.



Well, I think *B* needs to make *Z* apologize to *A* for stealing and lying. Immediately.


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## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Z did not feel that an apology was necessary because it was "just a prank".  I think eventually, under duress, she did apologize.  But it was for A getting in trouble for "losing" her item, not for actually taking said item in the first place.


Are you having Z replace lost item...


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## vraiblonde

BS Gal said:
			
		

> And lie about it when she asks.


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## kwillia

rack'm said:
			
		

> Over the next three sessions.........take something off of her desk when she's not looking......see what she calls it.


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## nomoney

is this court ordered counseling?


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## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> Are you having Z replace lost item...


This was a year ago and Z did give the item back to A, complete and intact.

But now we're discussing my methods of dealing with this situation.  And I just wanted to get a second opinion as to whether calling these acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh or not.  I do not think they were, but the counselor (and others who shall remain nameless) do.


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## BS Gal

nomoney said:
			
		

> is this court ordered counseling?


And, once again, may I ask if you also have to perform community service?


----------



## Pete

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> This was a year ago and Z did give the item back to A, complete and intact.
> 
> But now we're discussing my methods of dealing with this situation.  And I just wanted to get a second opinion as to whether calling these acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh or not.  I do not think they were, but the counselor (and others who shall remain nameless) do.


So did you say "Yea, I am harsh :shrug:"  What is really wrong with being "harsh" if that is who you are?

Not saying you are "harsh" BTW.


----------



## vraiblonde

nomoney said:
			
		

> is this court ordered counseling?


No


----------



## citysherry

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.



Take "Z" to another professional.  The one you went to should not be in practice.


----------



## bresamil

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> This was a year ago and Z did give the item back to A, complete and intact.
> 
> But now we're discussing my methods of dealing with this situation.  And I just wanted to get a second opinion as to whether calling these acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh or not.  I do not think they were, but the counselor (and others who shall remain nameless) do.


It was stealing and lying, plain and simple.  Tell them you not only gave up the rose colored glasses years ago but stomped them to bits.  World's been pretty simple and upfront since.


----------



## harleygirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> This was a year ago and Z did give the item back to A, complete and intact.
> 
> But now we're discussing my methods of dealing with this situation.  And I just wanted to get a second opinion as to whether calling these acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh or not.  I do not think they were, but the counselor (and others who shall remain nameless) do.


If it was done with malicious intent, I would say stealing and lying was appropriate.  If it was done as a joke, I would tell the jokester that the other person did not appreciate it, and if you do it again,


----------



## nightowl

My question is why the heck is Z going in your purse in the first place?  That is a place that is 100% off limits to all my kids.

Second I'm wondering if your counselor is the one for you.  Does she/he have children?  If not then she/he really doesn't have a clue.  

I don't find the words "stealing" or "lying" wrong in any way when it comes to your story.

My nephew's therapist called him just using my computer behind my back "stealing" because it was done without permission.  Anything taken without permission is considered stealing in my book.  Also, if story #1 isn't the truth then that is lying.  As for jokes, the therapist said on that front that if it's not funny to both parties then it's not a joke.


----------



## vraiblonde

Pete said:
			
		

> So did you say "Yea, I am harsh :shrug:"


I say "Yes, I am harsh" when I'm *being* harsh.  But I do not think I was, in this incident.

Yelling at the kids is harsh (or can be considered as such), and I accept that.  Simply using the correct terminology for a defined, factual behavior is not, in my opinion harsh.

So ya'll feel free to help me see the counselor's POV.


----------



## bresamil

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I say "Yes, I am harsh" when I'm *being* harsh.  But I do not think I was, in this incident.
> 
> Yelling at the kids is harsh (or can be considered as such), and I accept that.  Simply using the correct terminology for a defined, factual behavior is not, in my opinion harsh.
> 
> So ya'll feel free to help me see the counselor's POV.


Your counselor is a hippie.


----------



## BS Gal

So, what was the item that was stolen by the lying POS?


----------



## otter

"Harsh" tends to imprint a lesson a hell of alot quicker than the alternative.


----------



## vraiblonde

harleygirl said:
			
		

> If it was done as a joke, I would tell the jokester that the other person did not appreciate it, and if you do it again,


I would have believed it was a joke had Z said, "I took the item as a joke, then forgot to give it back before I left."  Then I would have said, "Okay, Z, now you can apologize to A because she got in trouble for that and that wasn't a very good joke."

Instead, Z told two different stories before she got to the one above ^^.  The first story involved A asking Z to hang onto the item for her, which A said was not true.  The second story was that Z snatched the item from A's hand right in front of her, just teasing, which A didn't remember happening, either.


----------



## rack'm

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> *So ya'll feel free to help me see the counselor's POV.*




It's all part of a Democratic brainwashing scheme to turn everyone into capitulating and appeasing sissies so the country can be taken over.


----------



## itsbob

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Yes, quite frequently.
> 
> Based on that, what do you all think probably happened?


Beyotch Z sto Beyotch A's crack pipe, and Beyotch A laid a whuppin on that Z azz..


----------



## vraiblonde

bresamil said:
			
		

> Your counselor is a hippie.


She gave me Leo Buscaglia's book "Love" to read and see how to relate in a healthy marital relationship.

Description from Buscaglia's website:



> An examination of the delicate phenomenon of human love as the one unifying force of life. The author identifies barriers of love and suggests means of overcoming them. This book was inspired by Leo Buscaglia's ground-breaking Love Class at the University of Southern California.


----------



## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She gave me Leo Buscaglia's book "Love" to read and see how to relate in a healthy marital relationship.
> 
> Description from Buscaglia's website:


Oooooh... this should have it's own thread... I'l love for you to share some "pointers"...


----------



## itsbob

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.


If Z went to a private school you wouldn't be having this discussion..


----------



## virgovictoria

I'm thinking the item in question was a cell phone, correct?


----------



## kwillia

itsbob said:
			
		

> If Z went to a private school you wouldn't be having this discussion..


Don't you have a battery to fix?


----------



## pixiegirl

So Vria, Are you going to print this out and take it to your whacky counselor?


----------



## TexasPride77

*All right...my turn*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She gave me Leo Buscaglia's book "Love" to read and see how to relate in a healthy marital relationship.
> 
> Description from Buscaglia's website:




Vrail,

Look..I think your therapist is trying to make you see fault in yourself.  My opinion on the therapists train of thought:  "It is not PC to go attacking people with only speculation in your weapon belt.  If you are in a long term relationship with the person who sole from you, seeking out a way to peacefully close the "big uh-oh" without causing any hurt feelings is the goal."

If that is the case, I'd say the therapist is eating mushrooms... 

Stealing is stealing and then lying about the act is down right dispicable.  BUT again, if you are in a long term relationship with the person in question....and they want the relationship to reamain long term...they should come clean and admit all the wrongs.  

Being a dirty character is one thing but having a dirty character is another.

For what its worth....


----------



## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> Oooooh... this should have it's own thread... I'l love for you to share some "pointers"...


I can't share pointers because I couldn't get past the Foreward.  

I'll try to find and excerpt.  You'll howl.

I like the counselor, but I think she's a little more touchy-feely than someone like me can relate to.  Larry loves her, so we'll continue to see her.  But I should probably consider someone more aggressive.

Harsh.  Like me.


----------



## virgovictoria

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> I'm thinking the item in question was a cell phone, correct?


  I have a reason for asking...


----------



## Midnightrider

bresamil said:
			
		

> Your counselor is a hippie.


most of 'em are.... They never want you to say anything that implies a judgement, stealing and lying implying you are judging them to be bad. But if you are effing up, then someone sould tell you.

So if this happened a year ago, did it just come to light, or has this been an ongoing battle?


----------



## cattitude

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I say "Yes, I am harsh" when I'm *being* harsh.  But I do not think I was, in this incident.
> 
> Yelling at the kids is harsh (or can be considered as such), and I accept that.  Simply using the correct terminology for a defined, factual behavior is not, in my opinion harsh.
> 
> So ya'll feel free to help me see the counselor's POV.



I just KNEW what you were talking about.  I guess I don't get why you are discussing this at your counseling sessions.


----------



## BS Gal

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> I have a reason for asking...


Z took yours too, huh?


----------



## pixiegirl

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> I have a reason for asking...



You got unsolicited phone calls too?    Z has a very dirty mouth!


----------



## bresamil

TexasPride77 said:
			
		

> Vrail,
> 
> Look..I think your therapist is trying to make you see fault in yourself.  ....




Now that I believe.  As long as you think you have a problem and need counseling, you'll come back.  So is your counselor trying to finance a vacation home or a boat?


----------



## vraiblonde

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> I'm thinking the item in question was a cell phone, correct?


No, it was money.


----------



## virgovictoria

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> You got unsolicited phone calls too?    Z has a very dirty mouth!


----------



## bresamil

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I
> Larry loves her, so we'll continue to see her.


That just means she's a Skins fan.


----------



## Midnightrider

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> No, it was money.


taking money isn't a joke. it is what it is. I would question more why Z needed the money.


----------



## harleygirl

Vrai, I think you are in a step situation like me.  My son and step-son live at home.  I do not know it the two kids involved are your natural or step children.  I can tell you that when I talk to hubby about something negative regarding my step-son I have to be very careful.  Same with hubby, I can call my son a little brat and that is fine........if hubby says it I start getting defensive, and vice versa.


----------



## vraiblonde

cattitude said:
			
		

> I just KNEW what you were talking about.  I guess I don't get why you are discussing this at your counseling sessions.


Because Larry and I are having a disagreement (of sorts) over my method of handling issues with the children (and each other).  And my handling of the A/Z issue was one of the things that came up as an example of my "harshness" and poor methodology.


----------



## vraiblonde

BS Gal said:
			
		

> I think you should cut Z's hand off.  That'll teach her.


How's she going to empty the dishwasher with one hand?


----------



## TexasPride77

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I can't share pointers because I couldn't get past the Foreward.
> 
> I'll try to find and excerpt.  You'll howl.
> 
> I like the counselor, but I think she's a little more touchy-feely than someone like me can relate to.  Larry loves her, so we'll continue to see her.  But I should probably consider someone more aggressive.
> 
> Harsh.  Like me.




I look at it like this...what do you think happends when your kid does something "naughty" and you repremand with "do you wanna whup-pin?" and then take no further action?

Is the kid remorseful for the wrong act?  Did the kid appologize?  Will the kid do the act again, even knowing you are opposed to the act?

My point - being nice is not the best way to get the big point across and your will have more recurrance of the act and had you taken a stand for what you knew to be right and applied the forceful learning technique of applying the board of education to the seat of learning.

Stand up to the person who did you wrong....tell them you felt they did you wrong...and if they do not care enough about you to fix the perceived wrong...then you will know where their priorities are and can take action based on that.


----------



## BS Gal

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> How's she going to empty the dishwasher with one hand?



Or fold clothes.  

You're quick.  I was trying to be more sympathetic so I deleted that post.


----------



## pixiegirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Because Larry and I are having a disagreement (of sorts) over my method of handling issues with the children (and each other).  And my handling of the A/Z issue was one of the things that came up as an example of my "harshness" and poor methodology.



Has the offense been repeated?  If not you did a good job harsh or not.  If it has you weren't harsh enough.      I'm a mean mommy.


----------



## morganj614

TexasPride77 said:
			
		

> I look at it like this...what do you think happends when your kid does something "naughty" and you repremand with "do you wanna whup-pin?" and then take no further action?
> Is the kid remorseful for the wrong act?  Did the kid appologize?  Will the kid do the act again, even knowing you are opposed to the act?
> My point - being nice is not the best way to get the big point across and your will have more recurrance of the act and had you taken a stand for what you knew to be right and applied the forceful learning technique of applying the board of education to the seat of learning.
> Stand up to the person who did you wrong....tell them you felt they did you wrong...and if they do not care enough about you to fix the perceived wrong...then you will know where their priorities are and can take action based on that.



All that gets sticky when it is stepchildren involved. I still say dad needs to make Z apologize for lying and stealing.


----------



## rack'm

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Because Larry and I are having a disagreement (of sorts) over my method of handling issues with the children (and each other).  And my handling of the A/Z issue was one of the things that came up as an example of my "harshness" and poor methodology.




Larry thinks you're harsh huh?


----------



## rack'm

morganj614 said:
			
		

> All that gets sticky when it is stepchildren involved. I still say dad needs to kick Z's ass off apologize for lying and stealing.




:fixed:


----------



## vraiblonde

PS, just so nobody gets the wrong idea, Z is my darling step-daughter and A is her beloved cousin, who she adores.  It's not like Z nabbed the dough from a stranger or someone she hates.  And while she does have a history of...shall we say, less than truthfulness, this is the only time she's ever stolen anything that I'm aware of.


----------



## pixiegirl

morganj614 said:
			
		

> All that gets sticky when it is stepchildren involved. I still say dad needs to make Z apologize for lying and stealing.



It shouldn't though.  You're both equally parents especially in a live-in situation.  That's the way it should be.


----------



## TexasPride77

morganj614 said:
			
		

> All that gets sticky when it is stepchildren involved. I still say dad needs to make Z apologize for lying and stealing.



I can understand that situatiion and agree....and I also agree that in the case of step kids...the whole family should sit down and lay out and establish a new set of family values that are understood by all.

The key to that is communication.

Of course, I have no experience with step kids other than the fact that I was a step kid myself growing up.  I cannot possibly understand all the emotions of the new parent in an established family.  All I can do is just give opinion from an outsiders perspective.


----------



## vraiblonde

morganj614 said:
			
		

> I still say dad needs to make Z apologize for lying and stealing.


This happened a year ago and is completely resolved and over with.  Right now we're discussing my handling of the situation and whether it was appropriate or not, as an example of whether I'm too harsh.


----------



## harleygirl

morganj614 said:
			
		

> All that gets sticky when it is stepchildren involved. I still say dad needs to make Z apologize for lying and stealing.


Exactly, if Z is dad's, I would give dad my thoughts and let him handle it.  I had an issue with s/son yesterday, discussed it with hubby, who of course got defensive.  Later when he was talking to s/son, he repeated my words to s/son like they were his own. Sometimes he does listen, I find the less pushy I am with hubby about his son the walls do not come up.


----------



## itsbob

kwillia said:
			
		

> Don't you have a battery to fix?


  

Who told?

Good thing we got the new tractor, I use it to start her truck everyday.


----------



## Mousebaby

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> This happened a year ago and is completely resolved and over with.  Right now we're discussing my handling of the situation and whether it was appropriate or not, as an example of whether I'm too harsh.




So how did you handle it?  It's hard to say if you were too harsh without knowing the whole story.


----------



## pixiegirl

harleygirl said:
			
		

> Exactly, if Z is dad's, I would give dad my thoughts and let him handle it.  I had an issue with s/son yesterday, discussed it with hubby, who of course got defensive.  Later when he was talking to s/son, he repeated my words to s/son like they were his own. Sometimes he does listen, I find the less pushy I am with hubby about his son the walls do not come up.



I can't buy into that theory and I'm the one with the bio kid.  I chose to be with him and to bring him into my son's life if I don't have the utmost trust in his ability to parent I should have chosen differently.  We parent together.  Even if I do think he's wrong I stand united with him in front of the kids and we discuss the issue later behind closed doors.  If I were to ever be single again I couldn't and wouldn't be with someone who I didn't trust 100% and the same would have to be said for me if they had a kid.  When your kid is in "our" house it's our kid.


----------



## virgovictoria

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> No, it was money.


My guess initially was money, then turned to an item like a cell when you made the statement that "Okay, Z, now you can apologize to A because she got in trouble for that and that wasn't a very good joke."

There may be degrees of deception, but it's deception nonetheless.  

If two teens are siblings and one hides the other's cell, as a evil prank and intentionally or unintentionally forgets to give it back (or simply doesn't care) it may imply less intent to STEAL as it does malice.

But, with money, there usually isn't any reason to play around with it.  If you take it, you usually mean it.  Whether you're doing it so YOU have it OR the other person does NOT...  What ever the case, you took it - you'll use it - IF you don't get caugt. <--- Which is the inherent lie.

The on-the-spot spit outs (lies) were a good try - they worked to a degree if they have anyone questioning their authenticity.

If your therapist says that you're harsh, okay; you're harsh.  Having set up this expedition kind of wasted excess energy on your part, but hey - you wanted less bias viewpoints.

All in all, would you agree that it was in Z's best interest that she test the waters with you and A, than say Habib and 7-11?


----------



## vraiblonde

Mousebaby said:
			
		

> So how did you handle it?  It's hard to say if you were too harsh without knowing the whole story.


I cancelled her upcoming birthday bash, told her that people who steal and lie do not get birthday parties and now she has to earn back my trust because, as far as I'm concerned with this issue, she is a thief and a liar.  And she must prove to me that she's not a liar and a thief by not lying and stealing in the future.

I wasn't particularly pissed at her because, well, kids do stupid things and it makes an opportunity to teach them right from wrong.  So what the heck.

I was more bent with the adults who were insisiting that she didn't "mean" to steal that money and that she was just "confused", not actually lying.  And taking umbrage at my use of the words "stealing" and "lying", which were considered harsh.


----------



## Larry Gude

*When I aksed you...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I just got back from a counseling session and I need a reality check.  Just a few simple questions, then I'll give you a scenario that may (or may not) change your mind.
> 
> First question:
> 
> What do you call it when someone takes something that doesn't belong to them, without the owner's knowledge, and keeps it until forced to return it?



...if you think she meant to take that money and keep it you said...


----------



## harleygirl

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> I can't buy into that theory and I'm the one with the bio kid.  I chose to be with him and to bring him into my son's life if I don't have the utmost trust in his ability to parent I should have chosen differently.  We parent together.  Even if I do think he's wrong I stand united with him in front of the kids and we discuss the issue later behind closed doors.  If I were to ever be single again I couldn't and wouldn't be with someone who I didn't trust 100% and the same would have to be said for me if they had a kid.  When your kid is in "our" house it's our kid.


But Pixie your children are still young......I completely see your viewpoint.  We are talking teenagers here or young adults, that already have had set values before the other spouse came in the picture.  I would never argue with my hubby when he was scolding my teen for something.  If I did not agree with him, we would discuss it behing closed doors.


----------



## Midnightrider

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I cancelled her upcoming birthday bash, told her that people who steal and lie do not get birthday parties and now she has to earn back my trust because, as far as I'm concerned with this issue, she is a thief and a liar.  And she must prove to me that she's not a liar and a thief by not lying and stealing in the future.
> 
> I wasn't particularly pissed at her because, well, kids do stupid things and it makes an opportunity to teach them right from wrong.  So what the heck.
> 
> I was more bent with the adults who were insisiting that she didn't "mean" to steal that money and that she was just "confused", not actually lying.  And taking umbrage at my use of the words "stealing" and "lying", which were considered harsh.


I would suggest that both of those things would be a little bit harsh, but with in the bounds of reason. I realized i was being extreme in my punishments when we were goignt o family counseling. The only thing the really made sense to me was the counselor said that small punishments with definite terms are most constructive. After a certain point it doesn't matter to the kid anymore. You remember what it was like to think the world was ending if you were grounded for the weekend.

And i agree, i would be pissed at any adualt that thought it was an accident, or mistake.


----------



## mainman

I think all of the guilty involved should be forced to eat Saurkraut and sausage on top of mashed potatoes  as a punishment, including you mommy for starting this thread...


----------



## cattitude

You two need to attend the Catt & Otter school of step-parenting.


----------



## Larry Gude

*Huh...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> She didn't say.  Just that my calling those acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh.



...what I heard her say was that how you said it and the context where the issue; not the words.


----------



## virgovictoria

mainman said:
			
		

> I think all of the guilty involved should be forced to eat Saurkraut and sausage on top of mashed potatoes  as a punishment, including you mommy for starting this thread...


  I know!  WTF is up with that shiat anyhow!


----------



## mainman

virgovictoria said:
			
		

> I know! WTF is up with that shiat anyhow!


Maybe it's a white thing?


----------



## Mousebaby

I don't think that was harsh at all!  I think you handled that well.  When I was young and "borrowed" my stepmoms makeup and then hid it in my dresser and got caught.  My dad threatened to paint prison stripes on my bedroom walls and went as far as installing doorknobs with key locks on every door in the house except mine!  I was only 11 and I thought my dad hated me from then on just because I wanted to wear makeup.  I would say how he handled things was harsh!  But not what you did, I probably would have done the same thing.


----------



## cattitude

harleygirl said:
			
		

> But Pixie your children are still young......I completely see your viewpoint.  We are talking teenagers here or young adults, that already have had set values before the other spouse came in the picture.  I would never argue with my hubby when he was scolding my teen for something.  If I did not agree with him, we would discuss it behing closed doors.



And the dynamics are quite different when you have mine and yours.


----------



## virgovictoria

mainman said:
			
		

> Maybe it's a white thing?


ah...  'splains everything.


----------



## morganj614

mainman said:
			
		

> Maybe it's a white thing?



Sounds like all the leftovers and bad gas waiting to happen.


----------



## kwillia

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...if you think she meant to take that money and keep it you said...


Larry, IMO it doesn't matter whether she "meant" any harm. Harm was definately done and to make matters worse, it sounds like she was completely irresponsible since the money didn't get returned in due fashion because she "forgot". She should have been punished "harshly" for this episode.


----------



## virgovictoria

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Sounds like all the leftovers and bad gas waiting to happen.


Sounds like it'll smell like a colostomy bag!


----------



## Larry Gude

*Thank you...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> This was a year ago and Z did give the item back to A, complete and intact.
> 
> *But now we're discussing my methods of dealing with this situation.*  And I just wanted to get a second opinion as to whether calling these acts "stealing" and "lying" were harsh or not.  I do not think they were, but the counselor (and others who shall remain nameless) do.




...because we were not discussing the words. There was no disagreement, at all, about the words.


----------



## pixiegirl

harleygirl said:
			
		

> But Pixie your children are still young......I completely see your viewpoint.  We are talking teenagers here or young adults, that already have had set values before the other spouse came in the picture.  I would never argue with my hubby when he was scolding my teen for something.  If I did not agree with him, we would discuss it behing closed doors.



I have a girlfriend that's going through this.  Teenage step daughter is a real something else.  They live with bio dad and my girlfriend full time.  Same rules apply in that house.  What mama says goes; period.  They have had issues since teen girl came from mom's house where things were much more laxed and dad hasn't been with kids full time in years.  

I'm not saying anyone else's way is wrong just I personally couldn't do it.


----------



## nomoney

i took 5$ out of my moms purse once when I was younger just so I could buy her flowers.   I got yelled and screamed out and sent to my room   Now thats harsh.


----------



## harleygirl

cattitude said:
			
		

> And the dynamics are quite different when you have mine and yours.


Exactly Catt! Now I know who to PM for advice......


----------



## virgovictoria

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Sounds like all the leftovers and bad gas waiting to happen.


<a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZSYYYYYYYYUS%2526i%253D10%252F10%255F15%255F6%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_15_6.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D10%252F10_15_6/image.gif"></a>


----------



## mainman

virgovictoria said:
			
		

>


----------



## Larry Gude

*And there's the kicker...*



			
				kwillia said:
			
		

> Larry, IMO it doesn't matter whether she "meant" any harm. Harm was definately done and to make matters worse, it sounds like she was completely irresponsible since the money didn't get returned in due fashion because she "forgot". *She should have been punished "harshly" for this episode*.




...she was. Lost her birthday party a week or two before the day. 

This kid has a problem with taking responsibility, full responsibility, for her actions.


----------



## jp2854




----------



## morganj614

One parent is usually stricter than the other depending on the situations.  Saying someone lied and stole is not harsh in my book, nor was the reaction to it. Be _consistent_ in the teenage years, that's important.


----------



## jp2854

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...she was. Lost her birthday party a week or two before the day.
> 
> This kid has a problem with taking responsibility, full responsibility, for her actions.



Larry you and Vrai are pushing the daughter a year later? you got me a little confused as to why you didn't do it sooner.


----------



## rack'm

nomoney said:
			
		

> i took 5$ out of my moms purse once when I was younger just so I could buy her flowers.   I got yelled and screamed out and sent to my room   Now thats harsh.




  We really know you conned your sister into taking the money.


----------



## cattitude

harleygirl said:
			
		

> Exactly Catt! Now I know who to PM for advice......



Anytime!  We didn't always agree and sometimes it was he11.  But in the end, we have a really nice family


----------



## pixiegirl

Paging KarenOT !!!!


----------



## pixiegirl

cattitude said:
			
		

> Anytime!  We didn't always agree and sometimes it was he11.  But in the end, we have a really nice family minus that little Pixie biatch.




:fixed:


----------



## harleygirl

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Paging Kare  nOT!!!!


----------



## nomoney

jp2854 said:
			
		

> Larry you and Vrai are pushing the daughter a year later? you got me a little confused as to why you didn't do it sooner.


 
you're too slow to own 4 cats


----------



## cattitude

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> This kid has a problem with taking responsibility, full responsibility, for her actions.



How old is she?  That's not unusual.  Most kids blame everyone but themselves...idiot teachers, stupid cops...you name it.  Excuses..excuses....they eventually come around.


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...what I heard her say was that how you said it and the context where the issue; not the words.


She told me before that my words were harsh and not conducive to warm and fuzzy conversations.  And frankly, my words weren't meant to be warm and fuzzy.

I don't remember thinking kiddo took that money maliciously - until she lied about it.  At first I just wanted her to tell me what happened.  That's why I went through the logic process:

Is it stealing?  Maybe, maybe not.  Could be a prank that went awry.  But when the lie gets thrown in, now I'm suspicious because why lie when the truth is as simple as that?


----------



## Larry Gude

*That would be interesting...*



			
				pixiegirl said:
			
		

> So Vria, Are you going to print this out and take it to your whacky counselor?




...given that the words were not the issue. 

Of course, I could be lying.


----------



## pixiegirl

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...given that the words were not the issue.
> 
> Of course, I could be lying.



What was the issue?  Vria being too harsh?  The punishment itself is the issue?


----------



## cattitude

At the risk of sounding like a biatch..

I think it is a little subversive to discuss the counseling stuff on here.


----------



## Larry Gude

*Sigh.....*



			
				jp2854 said:
			
		

> Larry you and Vrai are pushing the daughter a year later? you got me a little confused as to why you didn't do it sooner.



...this was over and done with the week it came up. 

She goes into a shell when she gets caught messing up, (EXCSUE ME, LYING AND STEALING) a slobbering, crying shell in an effort to get it all to go away. She laid on the coach for some time, an hour or more as we kept going back to her to get her to fess up and tell the damn story straight up. 

She has a problem with taking full responsibility. I'll take responsibility for it for not being a good enough parent.


----------



## Toxick

I only just got back and this conversation may have LONG drifted by now...



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?




Well, if "Z = Toxick" and "A = Mrs Toxick" (or vice versa) then I have to say it's not only possible, but it's more than likely.

However, in this case, both Z and A usually try to avoid taking (fill in the blank)'s if missing a (fill in the blank) causes a panic attack or results in someone's untimely demise.


----------



## bresamil

cattitude said:
			
		

> At the risk of sounding like a biatch..
> 
> I think it is a little subversive to discuss the counseling stuff on here.


Make them stop Catt!  When Larry and Vrai disagree it makes baby Jesus cry.


----------



## harleygirl

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...this was over and done with the week it came up.
> 
> She goes into a shell when she gets caught messing up, (EXCSUE ME, LYING AND STEALING) a slobbering, crying shell in an effort to get it all to go away. She laid on the coach for some time, an hour or more as we kept going back to her to get her to fess up and tell the damn story straight up.
> 
> She has a problem with taking full responsibility. I'll take responsibility for it for not being a good enough parent.


I am not sure how old she is Larry, but if this is the worse thing she does, consider yourself lucky.


----------



## kwillia

cattitude said:
			
		

> How old is she?  That's not unusual.  Most kids blame everyone but themselves...idiot teachers, stupid cops...you name it.  Excuses..excuses....they eventually come around.


I disagree... both of mine were taught and understood personal responsibility while still in single digit age. I'm not saying they didn't have to learn by example, but they learned early on.


----------



## vraiblonde

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> What was the issue?  Vria being too harsh?  The punishment itself is the issue?


Thank you.

WHAT was the issue?  It's not like I smacked the kid or even raised my voice to her.

That's what I don't understand.  Larry and the counselor say I was "too harsh" but what was the harsh part?  The grounding?  The terms "lying" and "stealing"?  Not giving her sympathy when she was slobbering on the couch?

What?  

I can't stop being harsh if I don't know what I *do* that is so harsh.


----------



## cattitude

kwillia said:
			
		

> I disagree... both of mine were taught and understood personal responsibility while still in single digit age. I'm not saying they didn't have to learn by example, but they learned early on.



Perhaps..but they are still relatively young.  I'm not saying all kids screw up but a GOOD MANY of them do.


----------



## RoseRed

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...this was over and done with the week it came up.
> 
> She goes into a shell when she gets caught messing up, (EXCSUE ME, LYING AND STEALING) a slobbering, crying shell in an effort to get it all to go away. *She laid on the coach * for some time, an hour or more as we kept going back to her to get her to fess up and tell the damn story straight up.
> 
> She has a problem with taking full responsibility. I'll take responsibility for it for not being a good enough parent.



That there is just not right.


----------



## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Thank you.
> WHAT was the issue?  It's not like I smacked the kid or even raised my voice to her.
> That's what I don't understand.  Larry and the counselor say I was "too harsh" but what was the harsh part?  The grounding?  The terms "lying" and "stealing"?  Not giving her sympathy when she was slobbering on the couch?
> What?
> I can't stop being harsh if I don't know what I *do* that is so harsh.



Why are you just now discussing the 'harshness' of an event that was last year?


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> I'll take responsibility for it for not being a good enough parent.


I don't think you should take responsibility - I think *she* should take responsibility for her actions.  If other people are taking responsibility for the things she does, how will she ever learn to do it herself?


----------



## Christy

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I don't think you should take responsibility - I think *she* should take responsibility for her actions. If other people are taking responsibility for the things she does, how will she ever learn to do it herself?


 
Good point.


----------



## Larry Gude

*In what way..*



			
				RoseRed said:
			
		

> That there is just not right.



...do you mean?


----------



## nomoney

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...do you mean?


 

was the coach at least using protection?


----------



## mainman

nomoney said:
			
		

> was the coach at least using protection?


 :


----------



## vraiblonde

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Why are you just now discussing the 'harshness' of an event that was last year?


Because Larry and I are in counseling to learn to communicate better with each other and avoid misunderstandings.  The counselor says I'm harsh and too vehement with my opinions, and this event came up as an example of me being too harsh.


----------



## pixiegirl

RoseRed said:
			
		

> That there is just not right.



If you wanna cry I'll give you something to cry about!


----------



## vraiblonde

nomoney said:
			
		

> was the coach at least using protection?




Larry, you said Em was laying on the "coach" instead of the couch.  They're making fun of you.


----------



## RoseRed

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...do you mean?


Is her coach male or female?


----------



## Mousebaby

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> If you wanna cry I'll give you something to cry about!


----------



## mainman

I didn't know Spurrier was back in town...


----------



## Larry Gude

*Look...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I don't think you should take responsibility - I think *she* should take responsibility for her actions.  If other people are taking responsibility for the things she does, how will she ever learn to do it herself?




...I offering up something here. She does have an issue with taking responsibility meaning, to me, she has not been taught enough and held responsible enough for shirking the truth, the whole truth. I do NOT hold yopu repsonsible for that. 

I've taken issue with you in SOME of how you go about it; not the fact that you ARE a very good parent. All I've ever said is sometimes you can be a little rough.


----------



## RoseRed

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Larry, you said Em was laying on the "coach" instead of the couch.  They're making fun of you.


----------



## RoseRed

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> If you wanna cry I'll give you something to cry about!


----------



## nomoney

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...I offering up something here. She does have an issue with taking responsibility meaning, to me, she has not been taught enough and held responsible enough for shirking the truth, the whole truth. I do NOT hold yopu repsonsible for that.
> 
> I've taken issue with you in SOME of how you go about it; not the fact that you ARE a very good parent. All I've ever said is sometimes you can be a little rough.


 

does she beat you?  It's okay you can tell us.  we wont judge.


----------



## Larry Gude

*You AZZ!*



			
				RoseRed said:
			
		

> Is her coach male or female?




...I gave you a LarrySpeak decoder last time I saw you.


----------



## Larry Gude

*No...*



			
				nomoney said:
			
		

> does she beat you?  It's okay you can tell us.  we wont judge.




...frankly, I'm abusive of her sometimes. I have a mean azz inner lawyer.


----------



## BS Gal

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...I offering up something here. She does have an issue with taking responsibility meaning, to me, she has not been taught enough and held responsible enough for shirking the truth, the whole truth. I do NOT hold *yopu* repsonsible for that.
> 
> I've taken issue with you in SOME of how you go about it; not the fact that you ARE a very good parent. All I've ever said is sometimes you can be a little rough.



Who is this yopu person you speak of?


----------



## BadGirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Because Larry and I are in counseling to learn to communicate better with each other and avoid misunderstandings. The counselor says I'm harsh and too vehement with my opinions, and this event came up as an example of me being too harsh.


Vrai, you are not too harsh.  We all know that Larry is the one that is wrong; you are perfect.


----------



## kwillia

cattitude said:
			
		

> Perhaps..but they are still relatively young.  I'm not saying all kids screw up but a GOOD MANY of them do.


Mine are not perfect. And I know they won't always make smart choices, however, they both already know they will be held responsible for the choices they make and they are primarily responsible for dealing with any messes. I started this early on... example, if they mess up in a particular class, they are responsible for confronting the teacher, asking for a conference and making amends.   If my son doesn't maintain a minimum 3.0 GPA throughout HS ... he will not test for his license at 16.  Stuff like that.


----------



## harleygirl

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Thank you.
> 
> WHAT was the issue?  It's not like I smacked the kid or even raised my voice to her.
> 
> That's what I don't understand.  Larry and the counselor say I was "too harsh" but what was the harsh part?  The grounding?  The terms "lying" and "stealing"?  Not giving her sympathy when she was slobbering on the couch?
> 
> What?
> 
> I can't stop being harsh if I don't know what I *do* that is so harsh.


Well.....try switching places.  If Larry called one of your natural kids a thief and a liar, dig down deep inside and think how you would feel.....


----------



## Larry Gude

*This IS...*



			
				BS Gal said:
			
		

> And, once again, may I ask if you also have to perform community service?




...community service; Forums of our lives.


----------



## pixiegirl

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...frankly, I'm abusive of her sometimes. I have a mean azz inner lawyer.




Start directing that at the children and you two will be fine.    




That'll be $500.


----------



## mainman

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...frankly, I'm abusive of her sometimes. I have a mean azz inner lawyer.


You doing this on purpose?????????


----------



## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Because Larry and I are in counseling to learn to communicate better with each other and avoid misunderstandings.  The counselor says I'm harsh and too vehement with my opinions, and this event came up as an example of me being too harsh.



Ahhh. Maybe she should help you understand each others ways of dealing with things instead of making it sound like one way is right and one is wrong.


----------



## cattitude

morganj614 said:
			
		

> Ahhh. Maybe she should help you understand each others ways of dealing with things instead of making it sound like one way is right and one is wrong.



THANK YOU!!!


----------



## Larry Gude

*As if...*



			
				harleygirl said:
			
		

> Well.....try switching places.  If Larry called one of your natural kids a thief and a liar, dig down deep inside and think how you would feel.....



...I ever got the chance. She is consistent. This isn't a his/hers thing. 

She'd have handled it the same way, maybe tougher or, if you will, harsher, with 'her' kids had they acted like 'Z' did. 

We've wrangled over me feeling she was too 'harsh' on them too.


----------



## morganj614

cattitude said:
			
		

> THANK YOU!!!



YOU'RE WELCOME!!!


----------



## BS Gal

mainman said:
			
		

> You doing this on purpose?????????


  I'm still waiting to find out who yopu is.


----------



## cattitude

kwillia said:
			
		

> Mine are not perfect. And I know they won't always make smart choices, however, they both already know they will be held responsible for the choices they make and they are primarily responsible for dealing with any messes. I started this early on... example, if they mess up in a particular class, they are responsible for confronting the teacher, asking for a conference and making amends.   If my son doesn't maintain a minimum 3.0 GPA throughout HS ... he will not test for his license at 16.  Stuff like that.



That a good plan.  And I don't mean to bust on you but I raised my kids very much the same way and there were still issues..ones I NEVER would have expected to face.


----------



## Larry Gude

*You knw waht...*



			
				BS Gal said:
			
		

> Who is this yopu person you speak of?




....if tha speling poleece are gonnuh be pahrt of this, it's gonna be a llong threeda.


----------



## Larry Gude

*Maybe so...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I can't share pointers because I couldn't get past the Foreward.
> 
> I'll try to find and excerpt.  You'll howl.
> 
> I like the counselor, but I think she's a little more touchy-feely than someone like me can relate to.  Larry loves her, so we'll continue to see her.  But I should probably consider someone more aggressive.
> 
> Harsh.  Like me.




...she said you were being 'hostile', not harsh. 

Wanna go see your mom together? You can watch her hit me with her shoe.


----------



## vraiblonde

harleygirl said:
			
		

> If Larry called one of your natural kids a thief and a liar, dig down deep inside and think how you would feel.....


If Larry could beat me to it, I'd give him a medal.  I don't have illusions about any of the kids - his or mine.  They are/were adults in training and the only way they learn is if you teach them.  It's nothing personal.

Doug (the oldest and mine) was a terrible liar.  He'd make up these dumb kindergarten stories about why he was late getting home, why his car bumper was laying in the yard, etc.  Larry called him (rightfully so) a liar and the stories he made up "lies".  And so did I.

:shrug:


----------



## jazz lady

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> Wanna go see your mom together? You can watch her hit me with her shoe.



I'd pay to see that.


----------



## Larry Gude

*Not that we're aware of...*



			
				pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Has the offense been repeated?  If not you did a good job harsh or not.  If it has you weren't harsh enough.      I'm a mean mommy.




...in terms of stealing. She tried to wear her sisters shoes the other day without permission but I made her put them back. I'd like to think it wasn't an attempted theft though, technically speaking...

In terms of the lying part, not telling the whole story, came up a week or so ago.


----------



## Fat Momma

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I just got back from a counseling session and I need a reality check.  Just a few simple questions, then I'll give you a scenario that may (or may not) change your mind.
> 
> First question:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call it when someone takes something that doesn't belong to them, without the owner's knowledge, and keeps it until forced to return it?



stealing....


----------



## nightowl

kwillia said:
			
		

> Mine are not perfect. And I know they won't always make smart choices, however, they both already know they will be held responsible for the choices they make and they are primarily responsible for dealing with any messes. I started this early on... example, if they mess up in a particular class, they are responsible for confronting the teacher, asking for a conference and making amends.   If my son doesn't maintain a minimum 3.0 GPA throughout HS ... he will not test for his license at 16.  Stuff like that.



You and I parent just alike, I said the same thing to my nephew, no 3.0 no license.  

There are consequences and if kids aren't taught that early on then they will end up in a mess because mommy and daddy can't always bail ya out.


----------



## pixiegirl

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...in terms of stealing. She tried to wear her sisters shoes the other day without permission but I made her put them back. I'd like to think it wasn't an attempted theft though, technically speaking...
> 
> In terms of the lying part, not telling the whole story, came up a week or so ago.



Wearing shoes is borrowing; especially between sisters.

As for lying, apparently she didn't learn her lesson the first time.


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...she said you were being 'hostile', not harsh.


It's kind of like being "defensive".  You are having a disagreement with someone, rather benign.  Then the other person says, "Well, you don't have to be so defensive about it."  You say, "I'm not being defensive, I'm just telling you my POV."  And they go, "See?  There you go being defensive again."

NOW you are defensive.

I typically don't start out being hostile.  It's only after dealing with denial and prevarication that I start feeling hostile.


----------



## Fat Momma

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?




Yes but a mean joke.


----------



## kwillia

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Wearing shoes is borrowing; especially between sisters.


Yeah, but in this day and age of instant communication... there's no excuse for one sis not to ask the other sis first. :shrug:


----------



## jazz lady

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...in terms of stealing. She tried to wear her sisters shoes the other day without permission but I made her put them back. I'd like to think it wasn't an attempted theft though, technically speaking...



You're cutting hairs and making excuses for her.  IF she hadn't been caught by you, she would have "borrowed" her sister's shoes without her permission.  How would YOU feel if Vrai "borrowed" one of your guitars or your golf clubs without your permission?



> In terms of the lying part, not telling the whole story, came up a week or so ago.


That to me is worse than the theft...er JOKE...er...BORROWING part.


----------



## pixiegirl

*People very rarely change....*

Especially when they don't see fault in what they're doing.  You have to pick your battles and while I do think that child rearing is an important one you have to look at the big picture as well as the likelyhood of change.  Vria is not only happy with her approach but confident enough in it to seek public opinion.  She started the thread and got reaffirmed for the most part.  What are the chances she's going to change her behavior?  Slim to none I'd say.  You've said you thought she was a very good parent.  No one is perfect, she's not going to change what purpose does continuing this serve?


----------



## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> Yeah, but in this day and age of instant communication... there's no excuse for one sis not to ask the other sis first.


Sure there is - because the one sis may say "no, you can't borrow my shoes".


----------



## nightowl

kwillia said:
			
		

> Yeah, but in this day and age of instant communication... there's no excuse for one sis not to ask the other sis first. :shrug:



Exactly!

No permission = stealing


----------



## Larry Gude

*No...*



			
				harleygirl said:
			
		

> I am not sure how old she is Larry, but if this is the worse thing she does, consider yourself lucky.




...this HAS to stop. I expect her to be a stand up person who is not going to try and weasel and excsue and 'oh I forgot that part' her way out of life's trials and challenges. This thread, our issue, is strictly a debate over methods and degree. 

There was a case of false advertsing going on at the begining of this trhead, ahem, over whether or not stealing was stealing and lying is lying and what it means when you don't tell the whole truth. 

That was never the issue.


----------



## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Sure there is - because the one sis may say "no, you can't borrow my shoes".


I saw that coming a mile away... but as owner of said shoes, she has that right. Especially if other sis has a history of not taking care of or not returning "borrowed" things...:shrug:


----------



## Larry Gude

*Which is...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Sure there is - because the one sis may say "no, you can't borrow my shoes".




...exactly why she didn't wanna call her.


----------



## nightowl

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Especially when they don't see fault in what they're doing.  You have to pick your battles and while I do think that child rearing is an important one you have to look at the big picture as well as the likelyhood of change.  Vria is not only happy with her approach but confident enough in it to seek public opinion.  She started the thread and got reaffirmed for the most part.  What are the chances she's going to change her behavior?  Slim to none I'd say.  You've said you thought she was a very good parent.  No one is perfect, she's not going to change what purpose does continuing this serve?


 
It's fun?


----------



## pixiegirl

kwillia said:
			
		

> Yeah, but in this day and age of instant communication... there's no excuse for one sis not to ask the other sis first. :shrug:



This is true.  I was looking at it from my personal perspective as to me I'd of minded the disturbance of a phone call to ask first more than the borrowing.  Not everyone is like that though.


----------



## vraiblonde

jazz lady said:
			
		

> That to me is worse than the theft...er JOKE...er...BORROWING part.


I completely agree with this.  I've told the kids since they were small, whatever you do is not as bad as if you lie to me about it.  You may get fussed at for the initial wrong, but if you lie NOW you are in trouble.


----------



## kwillia

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> This thread, our issue, is trictly a debate over methods and degree.


Is it possible that Vrai has upped her "harshness" over the years to counteract your low-profile parenting which has caused an even wider gap between both styles...:shrug:


----------



## Larry Gude

*Oh look kids!*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> It's kind of like being "defensive".  You are having a disagreement with someone, rather benign.  Then the other person says, "Well, you don't have to be so defensive about it."  You say, "I'm not being defensive, I'm just telling you my POV."  And they go, "See?  There you go being defensive again."
> 
> NOW you are defensive.
> 
> *I typically don't start out being hostile.  It's only after dealing with denial and prevarication that I start feeling hostile*.




...we're gonna chase each others tail for awhile!!!

And you say that, your way, is entirely the correct way to deal with it and I should shut up or do it myself. 

I say you, we, are doing a good job yet might it be a bit better in this area.

Your serve.


----------



## pixiegirl

nightowl said:
			
		

> It's fun?



Only if you're 16.  For adults it's draining and leaves you lower than when you started because you didn't accomplish what you set out to.


----------



## morganj614

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I completely agree with this.  I've told the kids since they were small, whatever you do is not as bad as if you lie to me about it.  You may get fussed at for the initial wrong, but if you lie NOW you are in trouble.



No matter how much you try to drill in them that lying is the worst part, sometimes they don't seem to get it


----------



## Pete

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Only if you're 16.  For adults it's draining and leaves you lower than when you started because you didn't accomplish what you set out to.


You still getting married?


----------



## Chasey_Lane

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Wearing shoes is borrowing; especially between sisters.


Not in our home.  K & C are not allowed to "borrow" each others items w/out asking the other one first.  Both have asked me if they could ride the others scooter/bike, borrow a book/game, etc., and I've always said "not until you ask such-and-such."  It is out of courtesy and respect.  If something were to get broken/damaged without permission, just think how upset the other girl would be.


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...this HAS to stop. I expect her to be a stand up person who is not going to try and weasel and excsue and 'oh I forgot that part' her way out of life's trials and challenges. This thread, our issue, is strictly a debate over methods and degree.
> 
> There was a case of false advertsing going on at the begining of this trhead, ahem, over whether or not stealing was stealing and lying is lying and what it means when you don't tell the whole truth.
> 
> That was never the issue.


The issue is, as you stated above, between you and me, not me and Z.  I was not angry at her.  I was disappointed in her behavior and frustrated at her lack of candor, but not angry.

I got angry when other adults tried to downplay this incident and call it a prank and a joke.  I was not angry at the kids, but at the adults.

And I ask again, what was so hostile and harsh about how I handled the situation with Z?  And what should I have done instead?


----------



## pixiegirl

Pete said:
			
		

> You still getting married?



Yes but you're still first on the list if he does something incredibly stupid!


----------



## Larry Gude

*No...*



			
				kwillia said:
			
		

> Is it possible that Vrai has upped her "harshness" over the years to counteract your low-profile parenting which has caused an even wider gap between both styles...:shrug:




...she has softened some. 

As for my 'softer style', we just got done hashing over a couple incidents or, if you like 'parenting opportunities', one older, one more recent, where I was being...too harsh...and she was trying to get me to ratchet it down a notch or two. 

So I know damn well she knows what I am talking about. She just doesn't see it when she's doing it. Nor do I.


----------



## jazz lady

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I completely agree with this.  I've told the kids since they were small, whatever you do is not as bad as if you lie to me about it.  You may get fussed at for the initial wrong, but if you lie NOW you are in trouble.



Exactly.  If you fess up to it, take your punishment and deal with it.  You make it ten-fold worse by lying to cover it up and therefore your punishment will be that much worse.


----------



## Nanny Pam

*And all I can think of ...*

Is the shrink reading this thread, and thinking how  these forum folks really are.


----------



## kwillia

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> She just doesn't see it when she's doing it. Nor do I.


That's human nature. If you find a fix for it... let me know and I'll pay you a "finders fee"!


----------



## morganj614

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...this HAS to stop. I expect her to be a stand up person who is not going to try and weasel and excsue and 'oh I forgot that part' her way out of life's trials and challenges. This thread, our issue, is strictly a debate over methods and degree.
> There was a case of false advertsing going on at the begining of this trhead, ahem, over whether or not stealing was stealing and lying is lying and what it means when you don't tell the whole truth.
> That was never the issue.



The reaction Vrai had was called harsh and hostile. That was the issue. It came out. As different people with different personalities, you each react in a different manner. To communicate effectively you need to understand you each have different personalities that can't be changed. 
Now you can take that difference and push each others *hot* buttons or you can try and relearn a different way to communicate within the family.


----------



## pixiegirl

Chasey_Lane said:
			
		

> Not in our home.  K & C are not allowed to "borrow" each others items w/out asking the other one first.  Both have asked me if they could ride the others scooter/bike, borrow a book/game, etc., and I've always said "not until you ask such-and-such."  It is out of courtesy and respect.  If something were to get broken/damaged without permission, just think how upset the other girl would be.



You're late.  I already said just because it wouldn't bother me doesn't mean it's ok.


----------



## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> Is it possible that Vrai has upped her "harshness" over the years to counteract your low-profile parenting which has caused an even wider gap between both styles...


Actually I'm a lot less harsh than I used to be.  But you're right - I tend to get more harsh when the other parent is being too lenient.  And, conversely, when the other parent is blowing a gasket, I'll step in and try to calm things down.

Balance.  Or dysfunction, whichever.


----------



## PrchJrkr

Nanny Pam said:
			
		

> Is the shrink reading this thread, and thinking how  these forum folks really are.



There's bound to be at least one.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 72 (53 members and 19 guests)


----------



## pixiegirl

kwillia said:
			
		

> That's human nature. If you find a fix for it... let me know and I'll pay you a "finders fee"!



Didn't we just go through this?


----------



## cattitude

morganj614 said:
			
		

> No matter how much you try to drill in them that lying is the worst part, sometimes they don't seem to get it



 I have one that was an angel, never lied, was just as good as gold.  He hit high school and someone stole my little boy.  He's 23 and I'm just now getting him back.


----------



## BS Gal

cattitude said:
			
		

> I have one that was an angel, never lied, was just as good as gold.  He hit high school and someone stole my little boy.  He's 23 and I'm just now getting him back.


----------



## kwillia

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Didn't we just go through this?


  

And on a side note... I'm gonna go home and kiss the hallowed ground and be thankful I'm having to deal with a split family...


----------



## morganj614

cattitude said:
			
		

> I have one that was an angel, never lied, was just as good as gold.  He hit high school and someone stole my little boy.  He's 23 and I'm just now getting him back.



Peer pressure maybe. The military gave me mine back and now they "get it" even more having kids on their own. It's amazing to watch


----------



## Pete

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> Yes but you're still first on the list if he does something incredibly stupid!


ef.

And all you other wieners notice the word "First" above.  If something goes incredibly stupid and you try cutting in line I will kick your ass.


----------



## cattitude

Pete said:
			
		

> ef.
> 
> And all you other wieners notice the word "First" above.  If something goes incredibly stupid and you try cutting in line I will kick your ass.



Did you just call yourself a wiener?


----------



## BS Gal

cattitude said:
			
		

> Did you just call yourself a wiener?


----------



## Larry Gude

*Ok...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> The issue is, as you stated above, between you and me, not me and Z.  I was not angry at her.  I was disappointed in her behavior and frustrated at her lack of candor, but not angry.
> 
> I got angry when other adults tried to downplay this incident and call it a prank and a joke.  I was not angry at the kids, but at the adults.
> 
> And I ask again, what was so hostile and harsh about how I handled the situation with Z?  And what should I have done instead?



...I gotto go pick up Z here in a minute...


I'll be back.


----------



## vraiblonde

All I want to know is what, exactly, I did that was so harsh and hostile.  I think it's unfair of the counselor and Larry to tell me that I handled something poorly, then not tell me exactly what I did wrong or how I should handle it in the future.


----------



## vraiblonde

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...I gotto go pick up Z here in a minute...


Get "B's" medicine while you're out


----------



## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> All I want to know is what, exactly, I did that was so harsh and hostile.  I think it's unfair of the counselor and Larry to tell me that I handled something poorly, then not tell me exactly what I did wrong or how I should handle it in the future.


I vote that you print this statement out and read it out loud at the beginning of the next session... then come back and tell us how it went.


----------



## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> I vote that you print this statement out and read it out loud at the beginning of the next session... then come back and tell us how it went.


That's a good idea - that way I'll have my thoughts together and can communicate my dilemma more effectively.


----------



## DoWhat

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Get "B's" medicine while you're out


"Please" ?


----------



## Larry Gude

*Yes...*



			
				morganj614 said:
			
		

> To communicate effectively you need to understand you each have different personalities that can't be changed.
> Now you can take that difference and push each others *hot* buttons or you can try and *relearn a different way to communicate within the family*.



...and it's called 'The SOMD Forums.'


From now on, all family issues will be presented on the forums, we will each make our case and then y'all get to vote on it. 

So, Vrail, dear, in the interest of familial harmony, say, oh about 11:30 or so tonight we  and then    and then...  


All in favor?


----------



## jazz lady

kwillia said:
			
		

> I vote that you print this statement out and read it out loud at the beginning of the next session... then come back and tell us how it went.



  Based on what I'm seeing, there is a lot of confusion as to what EXACTLY is the issue and a lot of hair-splitting going on.  You have yet to get to the root of the problem IMO as everyone is interpreting the sessions in their own way.


----------



## morganj614

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...and it's called 'The SOMD Forums.'
> 
> 
> From now on, all family issues will be presented on the forums, we will each make our case and then y'all get to vote on it.
> 
> So, Vrail, dear, in the interest of familial harmony, say, oh about 11:30 or so tonight we  and then    and then...
> 
> 
> All in favor?


----------



## Larry Gude

*Begining?*



			
				kwillia said:
			
		

> I vote that you print this statement out and read it out loud at the beginning of the next session... then come back and tell us how it went.





Girl, please. We're up to page 29, so far. It will BE the next session. 

I'd love to see you explain to Shrink how it is you got all these crazy people on here to think she's a :touchyfeely:


----------



## jazz lady

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> Girl, please. We're up to page 29, so far. It will BE the next session.


No doubt.  Maybe two or three sessions.  :cha-CHING:  



> I'd love to see you explain to Shrink how it is you got all these crazy people on here to think she's a :touchyfeely:



We fear her, NOT you.


----------



## kwillia

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> I'd love to see you explain to Shrink how it is you got all these crazy people on here to think she's a :touchyfeely:


For the record, I never said that about the shrink... as another person that tends to be "righteous and therefore harsh"... I would expect the same rebuttal from a shrink towards me...


----------



## Larry Gude

*Nope...*



			
				jazz lady said:
			
		

> Based on what I'm seeing, there is a lot of confusion as to what EXACTLY is the issue and a lot of hair-splitting going on.  You have yet to get to the root of the problem IMO as everyone is interpreting the sessions in their own way.




...we're on the same page. I'm just learning to more clearly communicte to her specific concerns without it sounding like I'm attacking. To learn to be a bit more nuanced or aware of the overall picture, thoughts and how past behavior may color things in some manner. To be able to walk a few steps in her new gold boots, so to speak, and allow sensitivity into my thought process to express my feelings. 

She's working on how to more clearly tell me to #### off when she's busting some kids azz.


----------



## Larry Gude

*kwillia's scared...*



			
				kwillia said:
			
		

> For the record, I never said that about the shrink... as another person that tends to be "righteous and therefore harsh"... I would expect the same rebuttal from a shrink towards me...




...of our touchy, feely, hippy shrink! Kwillias scared of our touchy, feely, hippy shrink!


----------



## vraiblonde

jazz lady said:
			
		

> Based on what I'm seeing, there is a lot of confusion as to what EXACTLY is the issue and a lot of hair-splitting going on.  You have yet to get to the root of the problem IMO as everyone is interpreting the sessions in their own way.


I agree.

I think, honestly, that a lot of it is just my personality.  I am a very direct person (I know this will shock all of you  ) and not given to euphemisms and soft words.  Frankly, I like that about myself and I like it in others.  So I don't particularly want to change.


----------



## kwillia

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...of our touchy, feely, hippy shrink! Kwillias scared of our touchy, feely, hippy shrink!


Yes.... ostingfromafetalposition:


----------



## Larry Gude

*'b'...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Get "B's" medicine while you're out




...already did that and just pulled up. I sent her to go get Z. 

God, I love a driving kid.


----------



## morganj614

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...we're on the same page. I'm just learning to more clearly communicte to her specific concerns without it sounding like I'm attacking. To learn to be a bit more nuanced or aware of the overall picture, thoughts and how past behavior may color things in some manner. To be able to walk a few steps in her new gold boots, so to speak, and allow sensitivity into my thought process to express my feelings.
> 
> She's working on how to more clearly tell me to #### off when she's busting some kids azz.



 she went and got gold Elaine boots?


----------



## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> ostingfromafetalposition:


And where the shrink would comfort you and try to get you to express what you're feeling, I would tell you to get up and quit acting like that - I don't speak "whine".


----------



## Daffy

*Don't look now...*



			
				Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ....if tha speling poleece are gonnuh be pahrt of this, it's gonna be a llong threeda.




...but it already IS a long thread.


----------



## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> And where the shrink would comfort you and try to get you to express what you're feeling, I would tell you to get up and quit acting like that - I don't speak "whine".


----------



## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> For the record, I never said that about the shrink... as another person that tends to be "righteous and therefore harsh"... I would expect the same rebuttal from a shrink towards me...


I don't think of you as "harsh" - I think of you as "honest".


----------



## jazz lady

jazz lady said:
			
		

> Based on what I'm seeing, there is a lot of confusion as to what EXACTLY is the issue and a lot of hair-splitting going on. You have yet to get to the root of the problem IMO as everyone is interpreting the sessions in their own way.





			
				Larry Gude said:
			
		

> Nope...
> ...we're on the same page. I'm just learning to more clearly communicte to her specific concerns without it sounding like I'm attacking. To learn to be a bit more nuanced or aware of the overall picture, thoughts and how past behavior may color things in some manner. To be able to walk a few steps in her new gold boots, so to speak, and allow sensitivity into my thought process to express my feelings.
> 
> She's working on how to more clearly tell me to #### off when she's busting some kids azz.





			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I agree.
> 
> I think, honestly, that a lot of it is just my personality. I am a very direct person (I know this will shock all of you ) and not given to euphemisms and soft words. Frankly, I like that about myself and I like it in others. So I don't particularly want to change.



I rest my case.


----------



## morganj614

jazz lady said:
			
		

> I rest my case.



 their homework for tonight should be to read your post.


----------



## kwillia

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I don't think of you as "harsh" - I think of you as "honest".


But sometimes I am brutally honest and that tends to backfire when trying to get my message across. I am still learning on when I should be "pulling in the reigns"...


----------



## RoseRed

morganj614 said:
			
		

> she went and got gold Elaine boots?



They are quite fetching.


----------



## vraiblonde

jazz lady said:
			
		

> I rest my case.


----------



## vraiblonde

kwillia said:
			
		

> But sometimes I am brutally honest and that tends to backfire when trying to get my message across. I am still learning on when I should be "pulling in the reigns"...


ME TOO!!!  

That's why I want to know exactly what I did that was so harsh, and what would be a better way to communicate in the future.  I do this with the kids - they give me a snippy reply and I say, "Okay, that was one way to tell me.  What might be a better way?  "

All I'm asking for is to have Larry do that for me.


----------



## Nanny Pam

DoWhat said:
			
		

> "Please" ?


----------



## Larry Gude

*Simple...*



			
				vraiblonde said:
			
		

> All I'm asking for is to have Larry do that for me.



...enough.


----------



## Oz

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> Okay, so we have stealing, and we have lying.  So we can agree on common English terms for these acts.
> 
> About the stealing:
> 
> Let's say that Z took something out of A's purse without her knowledge, stuck it in her (Z's) pocket.
> 
> Is it possible that Z meant it as a joke?  Thinking A would look in her purse and go, "Oh no!  Where's my (fill in the blank)???" and Z would then pull it out of her pocket and go, "Ha!"
> 
> So that's the question - is it possible that Z took A's belonging as a joke?



As you can see, I'm still on page 1. But I think I can shorten this whole thing by just simply asking if "she" got "her" missing Diva Cup back?

Or do I have to read the rest of the nearly 300 posts?


----------



## Pandora

I am very blunt.  I have always been that way.  I say exactly what I need to say and say it, which is why I do not do well around sensitive people or those with low self-esteem.

But that said, I think there is a tremendous difference between being brutally honest/direct/blunt than harsh.  Harsh to me is when a person over extends what they need to say and adds additives that don’t need to be there to convey a point, and/or they may continually ride a person once they’ve said what they’ve needed to say. 

There is no way to tip toe around something so clear as taking something out of a person’s purse and putting it in theirs, that is theft, and the joke excuse is out the window when the person was not direct in a response when asked, therefore they lied.  This makes them a liar. 

Now, if when saying that ^ a person tosses in  “you’re a loser; you’ll never amount to anything; you always; you never; you’re this; you’re that” well than guess what, it’s on.  Attitudes are contagious in my opinion and you get what you give.   I’m not perfect and everyday I make my fair share of mistakes.  I had somebody in my office today that I stated what I needed to say and he gave me excuses in rapid fire, one after another.  Instead of saying ok that is enough, I walked him down the hall and said something sarcastic like “yeah Mr.  I guess that is your wife’s fault too since nothing is EVER (and I emphasized the word “ever”) your fault, because if it wasn't for everyone else in the world, your life would be so perfect."    

See… fine example of saying what needs to be said than I let my irritation get the best of me by adding something that really didn’t need to be said.  Of course I really pissed the guy off at this point.


----------



## jazz lady

morganj614 said:
			
		

> their homework for tonight should be to read your post.



I wonder if they've completed their "homework" yet.


----------



## vraiblonde

Pandora said:
			
		

> See… fine example of saying what needs to be said than I let my irritation get the best of me by adding something that really didn’t need to be said.  Of course I really pissed the guy off at this point.


Ding.  The light comes on.

I'm kind of  because you managed to clarify and make me understand it in one post, where the counselor hasn't been able to do that in three months.  She keeps saying it's my "method" and calls it "unsolicited advice", but no specific examples so I can understand what she's talking about.

Good post    Where shall I send your $100?


----------



## nightowl

Pandora said:
			
		

> But that said, I think there is a tremendous difference between being brutally honest/direct/blunt than harsh.  Harsh to me is when a person over extends what they need to say and adds additives that don’t need to be there to convey a point, and/or they may continually ride a person once they’ve said what they’ve needed to say.
> 
> There is no way to tip toe around something so clear as taking something out of a person’s purse and putting it in theirs, that is theft, and the joke excuse is out the window when the person was not direct in a response when asked, therefore they lied.  This makes them a liar.
> 
> Now, if when saying that ^ a person tosses in  “you’re a loser; you’ll never amount to anything; you always; you never; you’re this; you’re that” well than guess what, it’s on.  Attitudes are contagious in my opinion and you get what you give.   I’m not perfect and everyday I make my fair share of mistakes.  I had somebody in my office today that I stated what I needed to say and he gave me excuses in rapid fire, one after another.  Instead of saying ok that is enough, I walked him down the hall and said something sarcastic like “yeah Mr.  I guess that is your wife’s fault too since nothing is EVER (and I emphasized the word “ever”) your fault, because if it wasn't for everyone else in the world, your life would be so perfect."
> 
> See… fine example of saying what needs to be said than I let my irritation get the best of me by adding something that really didn’t need to be said.  Of course I really pissed the guy off at this point.



Good post, something my nephew's therapist also said about my dealings with the kids (I have 3) is, "use less sarcasm and you'll get better responses".  I know he hit it right on because it's clear from my sarcasm we have become a whole family of sarcastic people.  Sometimes it can break the tension and bring laughter but other times it can make things way worse.  Sort of goes back to "if it's not funny to everyone then it's not a joke".  

I think also being able to let it go is important.  We can only beat a dead horse so long.  My husband says I'm famous for that too, going on and on and on and on and on and on.


----------



## 2ndAmendment

pixiegirl said:
			
		

> I can't buy into that theory and I'm the one with the bio kid.  I chose to be with him and to bring him into my son's life if I don't have the utmost trust in his ability to parent I should have chosen differently.  We parent together.  Even if I do think he's wrong I stand united with him in front of the kids and we discuss the issue later behind closed doors.  If I were to ever be single again I couldn't and wouldn't be with someone who I didn't trust 100% and the same would have to be said for me if they had a kid.  When your kid is in "our" house it's our kid.


There is the best advise I've seen in this thread so far, but I am still reading.

For the record Vrai, your councilor is off base and so is Larry; it was stealing and it was lying.


----------



## 2ndAmendment

harleygirl said:
			
		

> But Pixie your children are still young......I completely see your viewpoint.  We are talking teenagers here or young adults, that already have had set values before the other spouse came in the picture.  I would never argue with my hubby when he was scolding my teen for something.  If I did not agree with him, we would discuss it behing closed doors.


Kids, teens, doesn't matter, the parents need to be united in parenting or the kids, step-kids (what ever age) will use the division to drive the parents apart. Parents need to be on the same side in all parenting issues.;


----------



## 2ndAmendment

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...given that the words were not the issue.
> Of course, I could be lying.


Or a a couselor might put it, perceiving from a different point of view. More psychobabble!


----------



## 2ndAmendment

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...I offering up something here. She does have an issue with taking responsibility meaning, to me, she has not been taught enough and held responsible enough for shirking the truth, the whole truth. I do NOT hold yopu repsonsible for that.
> 
> I've taken issue with you in SOME of how you go about it; not the fact that you ARE a very good parent. All I've ever said is sometimes you can be a little rough.


Sometimes, rough is what is needed. If "rough" comes united, then the child has to "see it the parents way." If "rough" only comes from one parent, then the child has an alternative and can cause a wedge between the parents. Looks like this is what is happening to you guys.


----------



## 2ndAmendment

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> If Larry could beat me to it, I'd give him a medal.  I don't have illusions about any of the kids - his or mine.  They are/were adults in training and the only way they learn is if you teach them.  *It's nothing personal.*
> 
> Doug (the oldest and mine) was a terrible liar.  He'd make up these dumb kindergarten stories about why he was late getting home, why his car bumper was laying in the yard, etc.  Larry called him (rightfully so) a liar and the stories he made up "lies".  And so did I.
> 
> :shrug:


It is absolutely personal. You love the person and want them to learn right from wrong, be responsible for their actions, and to appreciate their affect on others. If it wasn't personal, if you didn't love them, you would just ignore them until they were old enough to be on their own and show them the door.


----------



## Vince

I remember lying to my mother once.  Ate a half bar of soap, blew bubbles out my mouth, nose and azz for a week.  Didn't lie again, but I had the cleanest insides of anyone in my 1st grade class.


----------



## nightowl

I lied all the time as a kid but now I'm always on the kids about how important truth is.  

What a hypocrite!


----------



## Sharon

Vince said:
			
		

> Ate a half bar of soap, blew bubbles out my mouth, nose and azz for a week.


Was it Ivory soap?


----------



## Vince

Sharon said:
			
		

> Was it Ivory soap?


Only kind anyone bought back then.


----------



## vraiblonde

2ndAmendment said:
			
		

> It is absolutely personal. You love the person and want them to learn right from wrong, be responsible for their actions, and to appreciate their affect on others. If it wasn't personal, if you didn't love them, you would just ignore them until they were old enough to be on their own and show them the door.


What I mean by that is that I do not take their kid shenanigans personally.  There are a lot of parents who think their kid does naughty things out of spite or to punish the parent in some way.  They consider it a personal attack when the kid does something wrong, and they'll punish the kid with that in mind.

It disappoints me and sometimes even makes me angry when the kids do stupid things, but it doesn't *hurt* me.  Kids do what they do - it's nothing personal.  And I punish accordingly - nothing personal, just doing my job.


----------



## Agee

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> It disappoints me and sometimes even makes me angry when the kids do stupid things, but it doesn't *hurt* me. Kids do what they do - it's nothing personal. And I punish accordingly - nothing personal, just doing my job.


 
Doesn't the "disappointment and anger" fade quickly if the child truly realizes the stupitidy of their actions and modifies their behaviors accordingly?


----------



## vraiblonde

Airgasm said:
			
		

> Doesn't the "disappointment and anger" fade quickly if the child truly realizes the stupitidy of their actions and modifies their behaviors accordingly?


Yep - that's why I say it's nothing personal.  Cause.  Effect.  Lesson learned.  End of story.


----------



## Pandora

Vrai, 

Ahhh shucks 

I had a moment like that earlier this year when somebody kept trying to rationalize something to me and I just wasn’t getting it and then somebody out of the blue put it into perspective.  Sometimes it doesn’t matter where the answer comes from, just that we eventually get it and stop torturing ourselves.  

Nightowl, 



> I think also being able to let it go is important. We can only beat a dead horse so long. My husband says I'm famous for that too, going on and on and on and on and on and on.



I think the reason people tend to go “on and on” is because the issue(s) isn’t resolved in their mind.  But, I’ve learned the hard way that sometimes you do have to let it go, because the other person is never EVER going to see it the way your eyes and heart see it.

I just started reading a book called _Deadly Emotions_ by Doctor Don Colvert.  I have posted many times in the past on this forum that my mother suffered and died relatively young from cancer.  There is an uneasy feeling that lurks inside me knowing that I’m not too far off from the age my mother died, and this may seem farfetched, but I’ve often thought my mother ended up with cancer because of her emotional distress.  This book describes how our emotions do indeed make us sick, even terminally sick and it describes several cases studies and studies in general.  The author is a Christian writer who doesn’t gag a person with constant biblical scripture, but he does find a way to weave both the medical evidence and spiritual aspects together making it a book that is above and beyond just the facts.


----------



## 2ndAmendment

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> What I mean by that is that I do not take their kid shenanigans personally.  There are a lot of parents who think their kid does naughty things out of spite or to punish the parent in some way.  They consider it a personal attack when the kid does something wrong, and they'll punish the kid with that in mind.
> 
> It disappoints me and sometimes even makes me angry when the kids do stupid things, but it doesn't *hurt* me.  Kids do what they do - it's nothing personal.  And I punish accordingly - nothing personal, just doing my job.


  Got it.


----------



## nightowl

Pandora said:
			
		

> I think the reason people tend to go “on and on” is because the issue(s) isn’t resolved in their mind.  But, I’ve learned the hard way that sometimes you do have to let it go, because the other person is never EVER going to see it the way your eyes and heart see it.



Pandora, you are so right here.  I also think that women are just way different than men in that we need to go on and on to help resolve stuff for ourselves whereas men can just resolve it or at least push it down internally.  But it's true that at some point you need to let it go since it's not helping anyone to keep going over it again and again.  The problem is finding out how to do that.



			
				Pandora said:
			
		

> I just started reading a book called _Deadly Emotions_ by Doctor Don Colvert.  I have posted many times in the past on this forum that my mother suffered and died relatively young from cancer.  There is an uneasy feeling that lurks inside me knowing that I’m not too far off from the age my mother died, and this may seem farfetched, but I’ve often thought my mother ended up with cancer because of her emotional distress.  This book describes how our emotions do indeed make us sick, even terminally sick and it describes several cases studies and studies in general.  The author is a Christian writer who doesn’t gag a person with constant biblical scripture, but he does find a way to weave both the medical evidence and spiritual aspects together making it a book that is above and beyond just the facts.



First, I would like to say I'm so sorry about your mom.  Reading this really gave me a sick feeling inside since my mom is fighting cancer for the second time. I never remembered her being a worrier but I know my sisters and I all are.  I do worry to the point of making myself sick.  I thank you for your recommendation, this book sounds like something that could help me.  Though I must admit I'm the queen of self-help books that seem to mostly sit on my book shelf.


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## Pandora

nightowl said:
			
		

> First, I would like to say I'm so sorry about your mom.  Reading this really gave me a sick feeling inside since my mom is fighting cancer for the second time. I never remembered her being a worrier but I know my sisters and I all are.  I do worry to the point of making myself sick.  I thank you for your recommendation, this book sounds like something that could help me.  Though I must admit I'm the queen of self-help books that seem to mostly sit on my book shelf.




My mother worried about everything, but I didn’t know that until my grandmother told me after she died.   My grandmother said that whenever anyone had a problem, my mother would worry about it for him or her so they didn’t have to.   Maybe it was her way of escaping from her own situation of being under such a tyrant household. 

I started reading more of the book the last 2-days and it is really good.  Just understanding more about diseases and how the stress effects our bodies is enough for one to want to make changes.   

I am so sorry about your mom, but just keep in mind that worrying about her isn't going to get her better.  It will only make you sick now and it could potentially make you even sicker down the road.   

*Edit: *One interesting tid bit from the book was that skin infections are the hardest to clear up and that there is a potential for infection to reach the brain when the infection was taken in by an open wound on the face.  So you have more to worry about when picking a zit or cyst on your face than just a scar.


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## nightowl

Pandora said:
			
		

> My mother worried about everything, but I didn’t know that until my grandmother told me after she died.   My grandmother said that whenever anyone had a problem, my mother would worry about it for him or her so they didn’t have to.   Maybe it was her way of escaping from her own situation of being under such a tyrant household.
> 
> I started reading more of the book the last 2-days and it is really good.  Just understanding more about diseases and how the stress effects our bodies is enough for one to want to make changes.
> 
> I am so sorry about your mom, but just keep in mind that worrying about her isn't going to get her better.  It will only make you sick now and it could potentially make you even sicker down the road.
> 
> *Edit: *One interesting tid bit from the book was that skin infections are the hardest to clear up and that there is a potential for infection to reach the brain when the infection was taken in by an open wound on the face.  So you have more to worry about when picking a zit or cyst on your face than just a scar.



That's sad your mom worried so much to escape her own situation.  I think a lot of people do that.

I try not to worry to much about my mom.  She's a very spiritual person so she tries to keep things up beat and we try to laugh about things.

I never heard that about skin infections, ekkk.


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## happyazz

mainman said:
			
		

> I think all of the guilty involved should be forced to eat Saurkraut and sausage on top of mashed potatoes  as a punishment, including you mommy for starting this thread...




I'm not mommy, but punish me please!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## happyazz

Larry Gude said:
			
		

> ...she was. Lost her birthday party a week or two before the day.
> 
> This kid has a problem with taking responsibility, full responsibility, for her actions.




Your point is??????????????
She NEEDS to learn to take responsibility for her actions. She should have learned that we she was a toddler................................


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## happyazz

vraiblonde said:
			
		

> I'm harsh and too vehement with my opinions
> 
> 
> Imagine that.


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## vraiblonde

happyazz said:
			
		

> Your point is??????????????
> She NEEDS to learn to take responsibility for her actions. She should have learned that we she was a toddler................................


I would have given you green karma for that but I see you've got it turned off.


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